NDP Launch New Attack Ads - Justin Trudeau, he just lost my vote

I think going after Trudeau on the issue of C-51 is important, because Trudeau lost a great deal of support about that one. I think the ad about taking fees is wrong. It sounds exactly like something the Conservatives would come up with, and only validates the viewpoint that all politicians are thieves and liars.

I think the postcard terrytowel posted is more effective than C-51. Outside of the Annex and Plateau I don't think C-51 is resonating with voters the way the Dippers thought it would. 

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

These ads have only served to prepare me for a massive defeat.

They are the wrong style of ad and on the wrong topics.

This is not an effective response to the Liberal ads: The Liberal ads were on policy-- taxes -- criticising NDP policy. The NDP response is -- 1) an unhelpful attack on Trudeau personally 2) the raising of C-51 (if that's all you got now Trudeau will destroy the NDP) and 3) an auto sector ad focusing on what some unknown Liberal said not about policy or what Trudeau said.

Garbage. An embarassment to every party worker in the country.

You needed a strong ad buy not the musing of fake voters on what many people will think is petty (the speaking fees and what some unamed "advisor" says). Without naming the person the ad comes across as sleaze. Amateur.

The NDP could have had an ad saying why you cannot trust the Liberals (thier past history broken promises) -- an ad contrasting what the NDP would do with the vagueness of the Liberals. An ad on the the record of Trudeau voting for Harper's policies.

The NDP is going down and somebody in communications over there should be unemployed. This is downright pathetic.

Step 1 ) make a good platform

Step 2) sell it

Step 3) compare others with your platform

Go big or go home -- don't waste time with small petty shit. The NDP communications clearly are not getting out and talking to real voters.

Not one of these ads focuses on anything anyone will vote on.

The start of the auto sector ad almost suggested they might go there but then you realize it is a quote from some unnamed advisor-- what an effing dud. Fire the creator of that ad now.

Bring in someone who believes in the platform and is willing to sell it. Go after the Liberals but do it on platform issues that people are talking about and voting on.

Maybe the NDP will crater down to 20% and we can look forward to the next generation and hope they do better.

The current NDP leadership squandered the best chance to win ever. They blew the legacy of Layton with a campaign of fear and pettiness -- the opposite of what got them to opposition.

A case study in stupidity.

Let's not reward this absolute crap by defending it. That won't help the party at all.

I totally agree with Sean.

I've just listened to radio ad about C-51. This is desperation and i don't think NDP can win anything with this kind of approach.  If this is what they can produce at this point in the campaign, it''s too late for NDP to recover. On the 20th of October, we can expect a Liberal or Conservative minority government.

i don't feel like it's a failure at all. i think saying things like this are just another way to suppress NDP votes.

my facebook is full of people my age 36ish going to vote NDP.

imv posting "its over" like terrytowel is about as useful

 "Never give up, never surrender" Cmdr. Peter QuincyTaggart, Galaxy Quest.

 @Trudeau "To the last, I will grapple with thee... from Hell's heart, I stab at thee!

For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee!" Khan, Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan.

I don't think the ads themselves are the problem. The problem is that they are coming from the NDP. If you changed the end bit to "authorized by the CPC" nobody would bat an eye at the auto sector and and speaking fees ads, and the only reason people would question the C51 ad is because the CPC supports C51. They sound EXACTLY like CPC ads. Down to the fact they are focused on attacking Trudeau's character, rather than his policies. This is the NDP mistake this campaign. Trudeau is attacking the NDP platform, the CPC and Mulcair are attacking Trudeau.

Now, my bias is, I like Trudeau, dislike Mulcair, like the NDP, dislike the LPC. Most of all, my bias is ABC. And when I heard these ads I thought "ugh, is this supposed to make people who are SICK OF HARPER and HARPER'S TACTICS want to vote NDP?"

These ads will win more votes for the CPC than for the NDP, because anyone who was considering voting liberal and responds to these kinds of ads is probably a "red tory/blue liberal" and more likely to support the conservatives than the NDP.

The only attack that might work for the NDP is questioning the honesty of the LPC platform "ie. Will Trudeau REALLY do X?" (legalize and regulate marijuana, lower taxes for the middle class, etc, etc). Other than that, the NDP needs to a) answer attacks on their platform (I have heard nothing to counter Trudeau's claims that the NDP platform won't help you, the voter, for 4-8 years at least) and b) SELL THEIR PLATFORM. The NDP needs to give ABC voters a reason to vote for them, not a reason not to vote liberal.

Well at this point I am reminded of a line from a great, recently deceased American philosopher, "It ain't over until it's over". I am canvassing almost every night and seeing some good results in a seat that the NDP will be hard put to win. A few other things, Trudeaus reviews on his French debate were brutal, centering mostly on His French skills. Mulcairs job is to turn back the Niqab issue. Ontario needs to come around and BC will be problematic if the red wave starts. Of course the Liberals in BC just lost a candidate today so that's a start. Mulroney was well on his way to losing in 88 and turned it around in the last two weeks. We shall see.

their getting the cash from the oil and lng industry....i will bet money on it.

Centrist wrote:

Agan I wish the NDP would revert back to those Jack Layton-typ contrast ads from 2011. Were very effective.

Does anybody remember the "are you guys fed up with Stephen Harper?" ads that they ran on the radio in 2011? They should bring back those ones, and in particular run them in Western Canada about Harper taking this part of the country for granted.

KarlL wrote:

quizzical wrote:

their getting the cash from the oil and lng industry....i will bet money on it.

 

No.  Corporate contributions are illegal.  

They got caught with donations being made in other people's name -- corporate money donated in the names of employees.

Of course we could presume this was an isolated incident just not worthy of a wider investigation but why would we?

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

I must clarify-- it was the Conservatives caught doping this.

I agree the Liberals are targetting money and they have a lot more than the NDP anyway

I'm not out there but hope to High Heaven that the NDP is targeting some of its financial reources to Burnaby, Vancouver Island and the coastal ridings in which only the NDP can defeat Conservatives. 

I am in New Westminster-Burnaby and I can say quite confidently that Peter Julian (NDP) will continue as MP. Haven't even seen a lawn sign for any other party.

quizzical wrote:

we've had nothing but attacks from Justin against Mulcair all week out here in BC.

the negative bs against the NDP ads by those who profess to be all knowing NDPers is just BS.

if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck. duck it is.

No doubt there are New Dems angry at the campaign and there are Liberals trying to use this.

Very different agendas.

On the one hand you have New Democrats trying desperately to shake some sense into the party and get them to make a change before it is too late and Liberals who are trying to damage the party.

You do not have to agree with any of this to see there is a difference.

mark_alfred wrote:

Anyway, arguing the merits of an attack is irrelevant.  The fact is, as acknowledged by yourself, that the Liberals have attacked the NDP in this television ad.  The NDP so far have not done the same.  They've focused on the Conservatives.  The fact that they're now starting to respond in kind to the Liberals really shouldn't be a shock, should it?

It isn't in the least bit shocking, just ineffective. If all negative ads worked then the one with the most would always win so all political ads would be negative. Some negative ads work, I don't believe these ones will.

The NDP assumed that Trudeau's drop in the polls was permanent and misread the reasons for it.

Pondering wrote:

NDP members and supporters here have made it very clear that unless we renounce any notion of ever voting Liberal again we are persona non grata. Only complete capitulation will do, unless of course you want to run the party. Then you can be a Liberal and tell people if taxes are raised on the wealthy they will leave and balanced budgets come first. If Mulcair were offered a chance to lead the Liberal party he would take it in a snap, provincially or federally. 

Nobody cares how you vote or what party you support.  They've just asked that you participate in discussions - actual discussions - and not parrot party propaganda.  It's really simple, but you aren't actually here for a discussion - just to post what you've been sent.

Ciabatta2 wrote:

Pondering wrote:

NDP members and supporters here have made it very clear that unless we renounce any notion of ever voting Liberal again we are persona non grata. Only complete capitulation will do, unless of course you want to run the party. Then you can be a Liberal and tell people if taxes are raised on the wealthy they will leave and balanced budgets come first. If Mulcair were offered a chance to lead the Liberal party he would take it in a snap, provincially or federally. 

Nobody cares how you vote or what party you support.  They've just asked that you participate in discussions - actual discussions - and not parrot party propaganda.  It's really simple, but you aren't actually here for a discussion - just to post what you've been sent.

That's ridiculous. I speak for myself just like everyone else here. It's not party propaganda to say that Trudeau was wrong on C-51 or that some of the nominations have been shady. You're infuriated that someone like Trudeau can beat Mulcair's NDP. You're angry that although I was wrong about how far Trudeau could drop I was right about his ability to come back.

mark_alfred, like a lot of the hardcore NDPers, you have had trouble being objective about Justin Trudeau and looking at his strengths.

The clear consensus among journalists from left to right in this election is that he has run a good campaign and that he was underestimated.

He has been through 5 debates and even won a couple of them.

As Chantal Hébert said a few nights ago, Trudeau is a different leader today than the one of several months ago.  It is Mulcair who now looks weaker by comparison.  And she said that Mulcair's weakness in Ontario and decreasing likelihood of being able to win a Government is going to be a problem for him in Quebec.  She also said that the NDP running these attack ads against Trudeau is a "loser" strategy.

Hébert is no Trudeau shill.  She has been very critical of him in the past when he has deserved it, and has praised Mulcair on many occasions (and probably votes for Mulcair since she lives in Outremont).  But she can be objective about the leaders and see when one is doing well and when one is underperforming:

I'll post the video of At Issue.  The segment I'm referring to starts at about the 6 Minute mark.  Have a peak, and see what you make of Hébert's analysis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP0LybyhyVc

Misfit wrote:

Actually, I think Chantal Hebert is a Liberal.

Chantal Hébert is Liberal/NDP.

She is not biased in favour of one or the other.

And supporters of both parties should keep that in mind.

When Trudeau & the Liberals have messed up, she has called them on it, and when Mulcair & the NDP have messed up she has called them out, too.

Earlier in the year when the Trudeau campaign hit the rocks she criticized them for it, and now that Mulcair is hitting the rocks she is drawing attention to that.

Pondering wrote:

Ciabatta2 wrote:

Pondering wrote:

NDP members and supporters here have made it very clear that unless we renounce any notion of ever voting Liberal again we are persona non grata. Only complete capitulation will do, unless of course you want to run the party. Then you can be a Liberal and tell people if taxes are raised on the wealthy they will leave and balanced budgets come first. If Mulcair were offered a chance to lead the Liberal party he would take it in a snap, provincially or federally. 

Nobody cares how you vote or what party you support.  They've just asked that you participate in discussions - actual discussions - and not parrot party propaganda.  It's really simple, but you aren't actually here for a discussion - just to post what you've been sent.

That's ridiculous. I speak for myself just like everyone else here. It's not party propaganda to say that Trudeau was wrong on C-51 or that some of the nominations have been shady. You're infuriated that someone like Trudeau can beat Mulcair's NDP. You're angry that although I was wrong about how far Trudeau could drop I was right about his ability to come back.

The persecution complex is immature.  No, people are angry with you that you can't participate in discussion without posting messaging from HQ.  You ruin legit debate.  Messaging kills discussion.  It is desgned for that inherently.  I have no love nor hate for Trudeau and have no idea what you predicted because your posts contain no value.  Karl's a Liberal, Cody is a liberal, (and I'm a former Liberal) and no one gets after us.  Because we contribute.  You do not.

Please do not respond to the post above. I have not read it. But I can guess it's largely about Pondering. . Her last longer posts always seem to go there. Let her have her say and do not derail the thread.

Ciabatta2 wrote:

...Cody is a liberal, (and I'm a former Liberal) and no one gets after us.

I'm new here, give it time. I'm really less Liberal than just a contrarian. I call out BS and hypocrisy when I see it (assuming it hasn't already been called out), and the Liberal BS gets called out quick on here. If it was a liberal leaning board, you'd think I was a NDP'er (or a conservative).

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I have views that offend some people, like I am against the legitimization of prostitution.

As long as you acknowledge that the arguments for marijuana legalization (which you support) and prostitution legalization (which I presume, based on this, you do not) are basically identical, I can accept the difference of opinion.

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I am saddened and frustrated by what has happened to the NDP which has become the NLP.

You're right, but I believe this is 100% on Tom Mulcair and hopefully once he gets turfed we'll get the NDP back.

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It infuriates people that I say the NDP is no better than the Liberal Party.

There is no question Layton's NDP was a better party than the Liberal Party. Layton had principles. Mulcair does not.

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I don't even say half of what I think, which is the Liberals are more likely to keep their promises than the NDP is this time around.

Most of the LPC promises are easy to keep. The only two worth breaking are marijuana and bringing legislation to reform how we vote within 18 months, and assuming the LPC wins a minority the NDP will hold them to at least the latter (both if Mulcair gets turfed). By contrast, the NDP's major planks are impossible, outside the mandate of the federal government, require co-operation from the premiers, or deceptive (whether intentionally or not).

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I feel about the NDP how many of them feel about the Liberals. I don't trust the current leadership of the NDP. I actively distrust Mulcair now which wasn't the case when I arrived.

I liked Mulcair until the personal misconduct thing. That gave me some doubts but I was still neutral on him until I started paying attention in early August. Active distrust is an understatement for how I feel towards him now. I don't hold it against the rest of the NDP leadership though...I doubt they have any more say than Stephen Harper's cronies.

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I don't think any of the Liberals here have condemned The Sherbrooke Declaration which I strongly oppose

Not from Quebec. Couldn't care less.

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nor did anyone else feel the outrage I did over how the NDP handled the personal misconduct against two of their MPs.

I thought the response from the NDP was weird. I was too confused to be angry.

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The day Mulcair used that situation to accuse Trudeau of revictimizing the women  because Trudeau suspended the two MPs I lost all respect for Mulcair

As a male, I don't understand why there is this view that it is better for victimized women to remain silent (and allow more victims) then to speak up. I didn't like that Mulcair politicised the issue, but due to the above I didn't really hold it against him at the time things were unfolding. Also, details were murky at that time so I tried to not form an opinion.

I hold no particular loyalty to any party. Federally, I've voted green once, liberal once, and ndp once (in that order). So as a reasonably non-partisan observer, I'll just say that I see a lot of what you see, but I really feel that the NDP's direction is completely on Mulcair, and I hope it's reversed once he's gone.