Nov 13 - attacks in Paris (updated) | Page 2

Sat, 2015-11-14 09:56

swallow

KAIROS Canada writes: "We pray, for those harmed by the tragic attacks in Paris, where shootings and bombs are gratefully uncommon. And we pray, for those harmed by attacks in Beirut, Baghdad and other parts of our world where that kind of harm is tragically common. We believe in the dignity and integrity of every human life, reject all acts of violence, and continue to seek just peace." Amen.

Probably only lagatta, from those here, knows well the part of Paris that was attacked.

This article indicates it was the people who do [i]not[/i] support French govenrment attacks on Islam who are targetted:

[url=http://fusion.net/story/233036/paris-attack-young-progressive-core/]The Paris attackers hit the city’s young, progressive core[/url]

There are people talking about the need to maintain a "co-existance zone" rather than allow the Daesh (ISIL/ISIS) to turn this into a "clash if civilizations" (in the words of the infamous Samuel Huntingdon). The Daesh, on the other hand, is trying to elimiante this "grey zone" - those who seek to not see thew world in "two camps", in binary, black-and-white terms.

[url=http://www.memrijttm.org/dabiq-vii-feature-article-there-is-no-longer-an... journal on elimating the "grey zone."[/url]

Sat, 2015-11-14 09:58

#53

josh

If countries engage in military action against groups like ISIL, their leaders need to be forthright with the people that the possible cost may be acts of terrorism. Instead of acting like the attacks came out of the clear blue.

Sat, 2015-11-14 10:12

#54

NDPP

All it would take to stop ISIS is a phone call from Washington to Riyadh.

Sat, 2015-11-14 10:31

#55

mark_alfred

NDPP wrote:

All it would take to stop ISIS is a phone call from Washington to Riyadh.

Could you elaborate?

Sat, 2015-11-14 10:47

#56

josh

Certainly the Saudis provide the seed money, but I don't how much control they have over the Frankenstein once it gets going.

Sat, 2015-11-14 10:59

#57

iyraste1313

The first and most important question in examining any great crime is “cui bono?” or to whose benefit? Attacking Paris, and in particular a football match full of nationalists already increasingly violent and hysterical seems to only benefit a government seeking further justification to wage wider war abroad – a war it is currently losing and a war it currently lacks wide public support to continue fighting. It now, all so conveniently, has the support it was looking for.

Tony Cartalucci, Bangkok-based geopolitical researcher and writer, especially for the online magazine“New Eastern Outlook”.

....so an ISIS (backers) recruitment project? and conveniently a way to shut down the pending protests at the upcoming Paris climate change conference?

Read Debka.com to get an idea of the enormity of the operation required (not to mention their targeting of the Paris Muslim barrios!), and in spite of the overwhelming surveillance operating in Paris post Charlie Hebdo? (Which Debka brushes off as lack of entry into theses shantytowns?!!) Yet with Intelligence access to all electronic communications, all internet!!

...yes for sure we must get to the bottom of this attack!

Sat, 2015-11-14 11:12

#58

NDPP

Basically Saudi money/support is critical. If that stops, ISIS stops shortly thereafter. Review ISIS thread for more...

And if this sentence is admittedly a gross simplification of things, it is designed to highlight two of the key 'players' of the ISIS phenomenon. A couple of links may serve this thread for a bit of background on ISIS and the Syrian 'problem' Paris may 'alleviate'...

Wahhabism, Al Saud and ISIS - the Unholy Trinity

http://journal-neo.org/2015/06/14/wahhabism-al-saud-and-isis-the-unholy-...

"Maybe, just maybe it would be a good idea to choose those allies which intend to defeat and destroy ISIS and deny the one power which started it all - the Kingdom."

Grandmaster Putin Beats Uncle Sam at His Own Game

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/13/grandmaster-putin-beats-uncle-sam...

"ISIS is Washington's favorite windup toy. Only now that Putin has been mowing down these gobshite takfiris like a combine-harvester slashes through the corn patch, the Obama crew had to move on to Plan B: Liquidate ISIS and hold on to those areas that were under ISIS control..."

Sat, 2015-11-14 12:59

#59

jas

What's the matter? They just hated France for its freedoms... or its way of life, or something. Perhaps its taste in death metal. Death metal concerts are a prime vehicle for terrorists to get their freedom-hating messages across. What questions could we possibly have?

Sat, 2015-11-14 13:03

#60

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I'm not familiar with FRance's gun laws. Are they the same as America? The shooters used AK-47's. Illegal here,not sure about FRance. If it's unlawful to possess assault rifles like the AK-47,the question becomes how did they get their weaponry?

It certainly would be the first question to ask if it happened in Canada.

This is why border patrol,CSIS,the RCMP and local police should be usiung their intelligence and the rest of their resources on combatting attacks like this.

In other words,stop the drug war. Oh yeah,stop the wars in the middle east . Cut and run and let them sort things out for themselves.

Just impose a flight ban for certian countries. And use defense and policing funds for greater security measures (without imposing regressive bills such as C-51)

Sat, 2015-11-14 13:07

#61

lagatta

The Fusion article was almost correct. The Left Bank/Right Bank axis also has to be coordinated with the usual west-end/east-end one. The right bank also includes very bourgeois areas farther west. East ends are often proletarian because of pollution. There is a part of the Left bank, south of the universities (eastish) and ministries (westish) that was also very proletarian, because of the tanneries and garment industry (highly polluting) along the river Bièvre, most of which is now buried within Paris, as it was an open sewer. The neighbourhoods affected were in eastern Paris.

"Banlieue" means suburbia, or a suburb. It can be anything from Neuilly, one of the richest municipalities in France and stronghold of Nicolas Sarkozy, to the most miserable enclaved ghetto towns. In the present context it would be mostly people from the suburbs east of Paris, multicultural and working-class, but also gentrified to some extent as they have such good access to public transport into the central city.

Who puts out that "veterans" garbage?

Sat, 2015-11-14 13:12

#62

[email protected]

After Paris, open letter to my comments on the left from a former Jewish religious extremist

I grew up as a leftist hippie. When I was in my early teens my family became truly unstructured and lived In a cultural community that explicitly believed that "everything is OK". I also grew up on the left with demonstartions and meetings. But after the meetings all the adults went home. There were no social family gatherings for comrads and children.

when my immediate life degenerated into chaos I turned to the word of God to give me structure and meaning.

Watching the emotional self mutilation of the adults around me I decided the absolute word of God, community of those who listen to the word of God, and an absolute love of god were better than unrestrained hedonism in the name of personal freedom.

I joined ultra orthodox hippie jewish religious group. From there I move to a "straight" ultra-Orthodox Jewish group and ended up in Israel on the edges of Mea sharem. It helps that my family was from Israel but I was moved by the desire to wrap myself in the absolutism of God's word but I was moved by the desire to wrap myself in the absolutism of God's commandments

Intense believe in the absolute rightness of God's word was in comforting and The intensity of the unity of believers was an antidote to the chaotic alienation of a culture rooted in individualistic, hedonist commitment to moral relativity.

I turned to god's community because of my alienation.
I understand how the repulsive absolutism of self righous interpretations of religion, with its inherent sense of moral superiority, would be attractive to alientated marginalized youth.

As part of THE LEFT I believe that we must have a cultural alternative to the hideous sexualize commodification of everything coupled with the loneliness of individualism and never-ending cultural relativity. We need to celebrate community and progressive culture as part of our confrontation with capitalism and it's predatory culture.

Sat, 2015-11-14 13:38

#63

Rikardo

I do appreciate the last comment. These jihadis are martyrs to their cause, an extemist Islam, like our (Chrisitian)Crusaders. Like the 9/11 hijackers. They're not just mercenaries working for the Saudis and the CIA..Who benefits? They do, knowing they are giving meaning to their life and going to Heaven

Sat, 2015-11-14 13:46

#64

KenS

But not all the ISIS militants are religious.

What they have in common- religious or not- is anger and reaction.

Sat, 2015-11-14 14:42

#65

KenS

NDPP wrote:

Basically Saudi money/support is critical. If that stops, ISIS stops shortly thereafter. Review ISIS thread for more...

And if this sentence is admittedly a gross simplification of things, it is designed to highlight two of the key 'players' of the ISIS phenomenon. A couple of links may serve this thread for a bit of background on ISIS and the Syrian 'problem' Paris may 'alleviate'...

Wahhabism, Al Saud and ISIS - the Unholy Trinity

http://journal-neo.org/2015/06/14/wahhabism-al-saud-and-isis-the-unholy-...

"Maybe, just maybe it would be a good idea to choose those allies which intend to defeat and destroy ISIS and deny the one power which started it all - the Kingdom."

Did you actually read and take in that article? I cannot see taking it in and going on saying that the Suadis could stop ISIS [after the appropriate phone call from the bosses in Washingthon].

Sat, 2015-11-14 14:43

#66

KenS

V

Sat, 2015-11-14 14:44

#67

NDPP

And a thousand a month to start apparently...

Paris Attacks: A Perfect Pretext For NATO To Mobilize in Syria and Iraq (and vid)

http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/11/14/paris-attacks-a-perfect-pretext-fo...

"To anyone who is really paying attention, the real agenda behind this 'terror' event in Paris - is a NATO-sponsored intervention in Syria and northern Iraq..."

Syrian Passport Found at Paris Attack Site Belonged to Asylum Seeker

http://sptnkne.ws/ad8w

"Discovery of the passport indicates a possible Syrian connection which was a working hypothesis for investigators after assailants hit six separate locations in Paris. The holder of the Syrian passport found at the scene of the Paris attack passed through Greece in October, Greek officials said Saturday..."

Sat, 2015-11-14 15:07

#68

NDPP

The Age of Despair: Reaping the Whirlwind of Western Support For Extremist Violence

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/13/the-age-of-despair-reaping-the-wh...

"...Without the Saudi and Western funding and arming of an amalgam of extremist Sunni groups across the Middle East, used as proxies to strike at Iran and its allies, there would be no ISIS..."

France is On the Verge of What?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/13/france-is-on-the-verge-of-what/

"Is France ripe for an Authoritarian Regime?"

Sat, 2015-11-14 17:14

#69

Paladin1

France's strict gun control regulations unfortinuately failed to prevent this. In my opinion it highlights how magazine caps, barrel length restrictions and licence requirements only effect law abiding citizens.

Sat, 2015-11-14 17:46

#70

Mr. Magoo

Quote:

But not all the ISIS militants are religious.

What they have in common- religious or not- is anger and reaction.

I wonder how many of them make it clear that they don't believe in that Allah fellow, but they're here to help out anyway.

"I'm totally willing to fight with you and die for you as soon as I finish this BLT".

Sat, 2015-11-14 18:06

#71

Stockholm

What's the deal with the terrorists targetting a little Cambodian Restaurant "Le petit cambodge"? I wonder if they have been inspired by Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge and decided it would be symbolic to target something Cambodian??

Sat, 2015-11-14 18:25

#72

lagatta

Paladin, what bullshit. That is not what gun control is meant to prevent.

Stockholm, I'd be more inclined to think the owners of that restaurant fled Cambodia; whether they were fleeing US bombs or Pol Pot's insane régime is rather a moot point. Evidently it was targeted because it is always full - it has remained good and economical despite the (relative) gentrification of the area and there is always a queue at the door.

Sat, 2015-11-14 18:30

#73

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
What's the deal with the terrorists targetting a little Cambodian Restaurant "Le petit cambodge"?

Making sense has never been a terrorist strong suit.

And that's probably strategically sound, too. If they felt obligated to always make sense then all some anti-terrorist squad would have to do is figure out which next target makes the most sense.

Sat, 2015-11-14 18:39

#74

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

How would gun rights have stopped one act of terror?

Sat, 2015-11-14 18:39

#75

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

NDPP wrote:

All it would take to stop ISIS is a phone call from Washington to Riyadh.

Kind of like how a phone call from Moscow to Eastern Ukraine would end the war there?... (and it's NDPP for the fail)

Sat, 2015-11-14 18:39

#76

KenS

A group with any degree of orgaization can easily smuggle in whatever weapons it wants for a one off situation. I was kind of surprised it was only Kalahnikov's. But AKs do have the beauty of being reistant to jamming. And anyone can reassemble one smuggled in pieces. They may have a stockpile in France.

Gun control laws can have no effecr on that. So there is no basis for saying this makes the laws a falure

Sat, 2015-11-14 18:48

#77

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

It wouldn't. But what is being implied is if someone in the crowd was carrying a canceled hand gun they might have been able to stop a gunman or two before they killed all the people they ended up killing. While based of total speculation, as nobody knows how a person with a gun would react in that crowded situation; there is some truth to that statement.

Sat, 2015-11-14 19:27

#78

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
A group with any degree of orgaization can easily smuggle in whatever weapons it wants for a one off situation.

I think the point is that anyone who wants a gun badly enough can too. And paying extra close attention to grampa's old squirrel rifle -- because it's easy, and we can -- won't change that. If gun laws can't take guns away from people who want to go on killing sprees with them, what are they going to do for us, exactly?

Sat, 2015-11-14 20:28

#79

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

Statistics for gun deaths in America versus its competitors in the OECD stand as arguments for gun control. Canada is a good example for comparison. It is culturally similar to the US, and has similar levels of violence in the various age, family, and gender groups. Yet gun deaths for both suicides and murders are ridiculously higher in the US.

Sat, 2015-11-14 21:11

#80

Debater

The Conservatives are already trying to exploit this incident for political gain.

They are saying that the Liberal Government must continue the bombing strikes against ISIS.

They are also saying this proves they were right about the C-51 Security Legislation.

On the issue of C-51, I suppose it's possible that the Liberals may now come off looking better than they did before. They took a lot of hits from progressive voters earlier in the year for supporting C-51 (and I was amongst the critics), but now it may look like a wise move that gives the Liberals some cover against the Conservatives.

It will be interesting to see how the NDP now positions itself on this issue.

Sat, 2015-11-14 21:35

#81

quizzical

funny how one of the alleged suicide bomber's, who was supposed to have come through Greece, passport was in pristine condition when found.

i'm so fkn sick of stuck on stupid people.

Sat, 2015-11-14 21:42

#82

Paladin1

lagatta wrote:

Paladin, what bullshit. That is not what gun control is meant to prevent.

Actually it is. Or at least it`s a major contributing factor. Gun control advocates argue that strict gun control will prevent mass shootings.

Well you can`t get much stricter than France (less a total ban) and while law abiding hunters woke up that morning and followed the rules, the murderers did not. Magazine caps, restricted barrel lengths, special licences don`t mean shit when someone will simply buy an illegal or black market gun to commit murder.

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

It wouldn't. But what is being implied is if someone in the crowd was carrying a canceled hand gun they might have been able to stop a gunman or two before they killed all the people they ended up killing. While based of total speculation, as nobody knows how a person with a gun would react in that crowded situation; there is some truth to that statement.

Not sure if you meant I was implying that. I wasn`t but I fully agree with you. Someone in the crowd carrying a concealed firearm *could have* saved lives. It`s not a 100% guarentee but I`ll wager it`s more than laying down waiting to be shot in the head.

Sat, 2015-11-14 22:19

#83

Slumberjack

Comparatively speaking, the recent bomings in Beirut and Iraq were quite the news blip weren't they? Here one second, gone the next? It's really the media production that makes events like this unusual and horrible in particular to our eyes.

Sat, 2015-11-14 22:33

#84

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

@Paladin1 No I wasn't... Every society has to decide how it wants to handle laws regarding personnel firearms. Every decision has its benefits and consequences and those societies reap those results.

Sat, 2015-11-14 22:35

#85

bekayne

quizzical wrote:

funny how one of the alleged suicide bomber's, who was supposed to have come through Greece, passport was in pristine condition when found.

i'm so fkn sick of stuck on stupid people.

Do only dead terrorists carry passports? Do terrorists captured alive ever have passports with them?

Sat, 2015-11-14 22:36

#86

bekayne

Debater wrote:

The Conservatives are already trying to exploit this incident for political gain.

A lot of people on the right are having terrorgasms right now

Sat, 2015-11-14 22:44

#87

Slumberjack

<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> wrote:
As part of THE LEFT I believe that we must have a cultural alternative....

How about fostering a sense of justice informed by the best examples of whatever we can muster as being true?

Quote:
I decided the absolute word of God, community of those who listen to the word of God, and an absolute love of god were better than unrestrained hedonism in the name of personal freedom.

The two absolutes mentioned here, ie: 'community of god' and 'unrestrained hedonism,' are not the only choices available. It's not either/or.

Sat, 2015-11-14 22:44

#88

quizzical

bekayne wrote:
quizzical wrote:
funny how one of the alleged suicide bomber's, who was supposed to have come through Greece, passport was in pristine condition when found.

i'm so fkn sick of stuck on stupid people.

Do only dead terrorists carry passports? Do terrorists captured alive ever have passports with them?

point being bekyane, dude was alleged to have been a wearing bomb belt or vest and blew himself up. how did the passport remain pristine throughout him blowing himself up?

Sat, 2015-11-14 23:03

#89

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

quizzical wrote:

bekayne wrote:
quizzical wrote:
funny how one of the alleged suicide bomber's, who was supposed to have come through Greece, passport was in pristine condition when found.

i'm so fkn sick of stuck on stupid people.

Do only dead terrorists carry passports? Do terrorists captured alive ever have passports with them?

point being bekyane, dude was alleged to have been a wearing bomb belt or vest and blew himself up. how did the passport remain pristine throughout him blowing himself up?

The simple answer is physics... no everything in a blast radius get destroyed or even damaged. That and most passports, being made from cloth like paper, are way more durable than you'd think. So it's quit plausible a small booklet like a passport help close to the body in a picket could survive a blast. Hope this helps.

Sat, 2015-11-14 23:33

#90

quizzical

lololol

Sat, 2015-11-14 23:41

#91

quizzical

oh and i see the pic of it is getting purged from on line.....been trying to find it again for a couple of hours now. should've saved it.

Sat, 2015-11-14 23:43

#92

NDPP

The alternative explanation to the pristeen passport miraculously escaping any damage is that indeed it was placed there to be found as it was...Incidentally, Syrian passports are manufactured and sold relatively cheaply and in large quantities in both Syria and Turkey. Since 'Syrian refugees' were the preferred ones in Europe and North America, many people not Syrian also invested in them. When you take in batches of thousands, such things are easily missed.

But never fear, our Guardians are on top of all things of true importance. And makes me feel so much safer knowing CIA, French Intelligence (DGSE) and Mossad were meeting/planning/discussing relevant matters mere weeks before...

'The Shared 21st Century International Mission'

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a2f_1447548473

Sun, 2015-11-15 00:14

#93

NDPP

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

NDPP wrote:

All it would take to stop ISIS is a phone call from Washington to Riyadh.

Kind of like how a phone call from Moscow to Eastern Ukraine would end the war there?... (and it's NDPP for the fail)

And here I thought the war ended, because Washington's proxies, being directed and advised by Washington, who hasn't managed to win a war for many years now despite many failed attempts, were soundly and repeatedly beaten by superior Novorossian people's militia. Not suprising to see the cordial and warm relations between Sam's IS takfiri frankenstein and the Ukronazi oligarchy either..

Ukrainians Eager to Help Out ISIS

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b8a_1444931507

Sun, 2015-11-15 01:16

#94

NDPP

Confirmed: French Government Knew Extremists Before Attack

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43415.htm

"As predicted and previously reported, terrorists who took part in an unprecedented attack in the center of Paris, killing over a 100 and injuring hundreds more, were well-known to French security agencies before the attacks took place.

With the so-called 'Islamic State' (ISIS) emerging as being behind the attack, the question that remains is, who is behind ISIS itself?

The rise of ISIS was revealed as early as 2007 in interviews conducted by Pulitzer-Prize winning journalist Seymour Hersh in his 9-page report 'The Redirection'. The interviews revealed a plan to destabilise and overthrow the government of Syria through the use of sectarian extremists -

- more specifically, Al Qaeda -with the arms and funds laundered through America's oldest and staunchest regional ally,Saudi Arabia..."

Sun, 2015-11-15 08:12

#95

Paladin1

quizzical wrote:

point being bekyane, dude was alleged to have been a wearing bomb belt or vest and blew himself up. how did the passport remain pristine throughout him blowing himself up?

It does sound weird, however I`ve seen someone blown up beyond all recognition of being a human being and the only thing left was their phone card which was in pristine condition.

But I agree too the `Hey this guy`s got a passport!` seems unusually convienient.

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

@Paladin1 No I wasn't... Every society has to decide how it wants to handle laws regarding personnel firearms. Every decision has its benefits and consequences and those societies reap those results.

True sir. Firearms are in such an abundence I don`t think the classical approaches to banning them will stop this from happening. I have some experience using X-Ray machines and there is an alarming number of ways to easily hide weapon components from the x-ray operators including simply how someone positions their bag on the belt.

Sun, 2015-11-15 11:40

#96

NDPP

Calais Refugee Camp Tensions

https://youtu.be/TwZFouFQNKo

"Fear and suspicion among migrants and locals..."

Sun, 2015-11-15 12:23

#97

bekayne

NDPP wrote:

The alternative explanation to the pristeen passport miraculously escaping any damage is that indeed it was placed there to be found as it was...Incidentally, Syrian passports are manufactured and sold relatively cheaply and in large quantities in both Syria and Turkey. Since 'Syrian refugees' were the preferred ones in Europe and North America, many people not Syrian also invested in them. When you take in batches of thousands, such things are easily missed.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/syrian-passports-found-scene-paris-att...

Syrian passports found near the bodies of two of the suspected Paris attackers were fakes that were likely made in Turkey, police in France said on Sunday.

...

In addition to the Syrian documents discovered at the scene of the Paris assaults, media reports suggested that an Egyptian passport discovered near the Stade de France - which was targeted by two suicide bombers on Friday - belonged to one of the attackers.

However, it emerged on Sunday that the passport was held by an Egyptian football fan who was severely injured by an attack that struck during a friendly between France and Germany.

Egypt's ambassador to France, Ihab Badawi, told Egyptian media that no charges had been levelled against Walid Abdel Razzaq.

The fan, Abdel Razzaq, has had three operations since sustaining grave injuries, his brother told Egyptian news channel al-Hayat on Sunday, and still has shrapnel in his body from the blast.

...

“He was like any other young guy who goes to watch the football,” Wael Abdel Razzaq told the show’s host.

Sun, 2015-11-15 14:03

#98

NDPP

Paris Attacks Propel Fight Against Terrorism To Top of G20 Agenda (and vid, UPDATES)

https://www.rt.com/news/322159-g20-summit-turkey-terror/

"The G20 stand united to face any militant threat, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said at the G20 Summit in Turkey. 'We are sending a strong message that we are stronger than any form of terrorism,' Merkel said as cited by Reuters. She also added that strengthening EU external borders is a crucial task for German.."

3 Paris Terrorists Identified, One By Shot Finger

https://www.rt.com/news/322155-paris-terrorists-identities-revealed/

"Le Figaro cited unofficial medical sources saying that among the dead terrorists there were two boys aged 15 and 18."

Sun, 2015-11-15 14:12

#99

quizzical

hey so i was right and CIA dude was just blowin smoke about how a passport can be pristeen after a bomb blast...lololol

Sun, 2015-11-15 14:43

#100

bekayne

Ezra Levant is going to Paris. Haven't they suffered enough?

Sun, 2015-11-15 14:43

#101

NDPP

The Americans blow little but smoke on all such matters in hopes you might miss them lurking behind them. These interviews with Eric Draitser and Pepe Escobar are MUST HEAR...

After the Paris Attacks: Western Intelligence, Foreign Policy, and the Rise of European Fascism (and podcast)

http://stopimperialism.org

The Paris Attacks, The War on Syria and the West's Collaboration With Terrorism (and podcast)

http://stopimperialism.org

Draitser and Escobar

"Clearly the western powers will profit from this, to use the incident to undermine Russia, fracture Syria and advance regime change, and also fracture the body-politic of Europe."

Nov 13 - attacks in Paris (updated)

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