Contrary to Liberal Party insinuations on this site...

112 posts / 0 new

Wed, 2015-11-18 15:54

jjuares

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

Sean in Ottawa in both Paul Wells Book (The Longer I'm Prime Minister) and John Ibbitson's book (Stephen Harper) Harper & Layton worked together (agreeing to how each would act in their dealings with Martin) AHEAD of that budget to bring down the Martin Government. It was in their both best interests to get rid of the Liberals.

Once Harper had his minority, he was able to govern like he had a majority because Harper was able to work with Layton. For instance the retrofit tax credit was a concession to Layton to get his budget through. After Harper came into power with his minority, he never dealt with the Liberals. Just with Layton's NDP to get his budgets through.

This is not me saying this. But Paul Wells & John Ibbitson in both their books. I suggest you read them.

Please site the relevant passages.

Seems like a misreading or BS to me.

Especially odd since it is Liberals who supported Harper's budgets not the NDP.

Yeah, this is bizaare revisionism. It was the Liberals who voted time and again with Harper.

Wed, 2015-11-18 17:22

#103

quizzical

i noted in another thread here some of the Liberals have taken a page out of the Consrvatives books and are lying with impunity too.

Wed, 2015-11-18 17:52

#104

wage zombie

terrytowel wrote:

After Harper came into power with his minority, he never dealt with the Liberals. Just with Layton's NDP to get his budgets through.

Terry, do you really want to be known as the guy who posts garbage lies?

Wed, 2015-11-18 19:58

#105

terrytowel

It is in John Ibbitson's book "Stephen Harper". I don't have the book as I took it out of the library. But if you give me a few days, I'll try to get my hands on a copy and transcribe the portions of the book where Ibbitson writes that Harper & Layton worked together to bring down the Liberals. And some of the concessions Harper gave Layton in his budget once he became PM.

So please put a PAUSE on your attacks until I can get my hands on the book and transcribe those passages. I'm not making this up as this is what John Ibbitson wrote. So please PAUSE until I can get back to you.

btw I'm NOT spreading LIES. I'm just telling you what John Ibbitson wrote. If you have a problem with the narrative he has written, go take it out on him.

Thanks.

Wed, 2015-11-18 20:33

#106

swallow

You can view it on google books at https://books.google.ca/books?id=mg-8BQAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onep...

Wed, 2015-11-18 20:37

#107

terrytowel

swallow wrote:

You can view it on google books at https://books.google.ca/books?id=mg-8BQAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onep...

Only 1/4 of the book is there. The last 3/4 is missing

Wed, 2015-11-18 21:35

#108

Sean in Ottawa

terrytowel wrote:

It is in John Ibbitson's book "Stephen Harper". I don't have the book as I took it out of the library. But if you give me a few days, I'll try to get my hands on a copy and transcribe the portions of the book where Ibbitson writes that Harper & Layton worked together to bring down the Liberals. And some of the concessions Harper gave Layton in his budget once he became PM.

So please put a PAUSE on your attacks until I can get my hands on the book and transcribe those passages. I'm not making this up as this is what John Ibbitson wrote. So please PAUSE until I can get back to you.

btw I'm NOT spreading LIES. I'm just telling you what John Ibbitson wrote. If you have a problem with the narrative he has written, go take it out on him.

Thanks.

Certainly you do have to cite this.

But at least you can answer the question I posed: which budget are you referring to?

As well opposition parties may talk about what they have in common but to put it the way you have that they worked together during a period when the NDP clearly and publicly propped up Martin and managed to make significant changes -- must be backed up. this is especially true in light of the fact that the Conservatives said they would back the Liebral budget in early 2005 as they said that it was essentially Conservative while the NDP opposed. After revisions, the NDP was able to support the budget and the Conservatives opposed.

It is also important to distinguish between conversation and conspiracy. It is normal for parties to have ongoing talks to explore possibilities -- to take the measure of others -- but that is different than conspiring to action.

And what you are saying is very extreme. I have tried to find anything online and there is nothing saying this in spite of the fact that this would be huge news were it true. And, by the way, you have to back it up from two people according to your claim so don't forget to take Well's book out as well.

Is there anyone who has the book?

Wed, 2015-11-18 21:55

#109

Pondering

TT is most likely mistaken and is referring to the pre-2006 election from around the time that Layton made the deal with Harper and Duceppe until the 2006 election of Harper.

His primary point which was about Layton and Harper working together to take down the Liberals was described in the book he is referring to.

Wed, 2015-11-18 21:59

#110

Unionist

Terrytowel is confusing events. He's probably thinking about 2004:

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/layton-scoffs-at-harpers-fa... scoffs at Harper's 'false outrage' over coalition[/url]

Quote:

Jack Layton says Stephen Harper is expressing "false outrage" over the possibility of a future coalition government given that he himself tried to orchestrate just such a union with the New Democrats and the Bloc Québécois in 2004.

The Conservative Leader called the NDP Leader and Gilles Duceppe to a meeting in Montreal after former Liberal prime minister Paul Martin was elected with a minority. The three men then sent a letter to then-governor-general Adrienne Clarkson in September, 2004, urging her to consider options other than an election should Mr. Martin's government fall.

Nothing to see here.

Thu, 2015-11-19 00:33

#111

Sean in Ottawa

Unionist wrote:

Terrytowel is confusing events. He's probably thinking about 2004:

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/layton-scoffs-at-harpers-fa... scoffs at Harper's 'false outrage' over coalition[/url]

Quote:

Jack Layton says Stephen Harper is expressing "false outrage" over the possibility of a future coalition government given that he himself tried to orchestrate just such a union with the New Democrats and the Bloc Québécois in 2004.

The Conservative Leader called the NDP Leader and Gilles Duceppe to a meeting in Montreal after former Liberal prime minister Paul Martin was elected with a minority. The three men then sent a letter to then-governor-general Adrienne Clarkson in September, 2004, urging her to consider options other than an election should Mr. Martin's government fall.

Nothing to see here.

And of course there should be no scandal in a situation like this of opposition parties trying to find if they can put together a short agenda of a few things they can agree on. At the time the Conservatives were proposing democratic reform and accountability so there was somethign for the NDP to work with. What happened later was an about-face for Harper.

Those of us who want to move past FPTP should not be scandalized by the idea that very different political parties will talk and see if there is any ground to stand on. But this is not the same as some kind of ongoing consipracy by Layton and Harper to work together to undermine the agenda that the NDP and Liberals were working on during early-mid 2005.

What happened after -- around the scandal that took over all political agendas in the fall -- was also another matter.

Thu, 2015-11-19 04:34

#112

wage zombie

terrytowel wrote:

After Harper came into power with his minority, he never dealt with the Liberals. Just with Layton's NDP to get his budgets through.

Contrary to Liberal Party insinuations on this site...

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