And so a new era begins in Canadian politics.......

NorthReport wrote:

Trudeau loses his post-election shine after Paris attacks:

Unscripted response of rookie prime minister garners his worst week in the press since before campaign

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/11/19/trudeau-loses-his-post-ele...

Hebert may be right about the press, but the press is not the people and they have a lot less influence than they seem to think. 

I'm curious to see his approval ratings over the next few weeks. If there is any drop due to Conservative fear-monquering of the Syrian refugees it will be a very short term dip with far less significance than the Duffy trial. 

I'm very disappointed in Mulcair's failure to support Trudeau on bringing in the refugees. 

I have the feeling that Conservative race-baiting, bigotry, and fear-mongering will drive Liberal numbers up as they did toward the end of the election campaign. Keep talking Conservatives!

Pondering wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

Trudeau loses his post-election shine after Paris attacks:

Unscripted response of rookie prime minister garners his worst week in the press since before campaign

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/11/19/trudeau-loses-his-post-ele...

I'm very disappointed in Mulcair's failure to support Trudeau on bringing in the refugees. 

REally?

So I guess you already read this?

The NDP released this statement three weeks ago -- read the last line.

***

Today, the NDP called on the new government to urgently release an action plan outlining how Canada will get thousands of Syrian refugees resettled in the country by the end of the year.

“This is about saving lives. Canada needs to act quickly if we are to bring 25,000 vulnerable Syrian refugees out of harm’s way by the end of the year, as promised by the Prime minister-designate during the electoral campaign,” said NDP MP Hélène Laverdière (Laurier – Sainte-Marie). “Canadians and the provinces stand ready to help – but we need a roadmap from the federal government.”

If Canada is to meet this ambitious target for refugee resettlement by the end of the year, the government must work with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, the provinces and settlement services to get Syrian refugees to Canada and ensure they are properly supported when they arrive.

“The whole world was moved by the tragic death of Alan Kurdi, and Canadians have showed a tremendous openness to welcoming – and even sponsoring – Syrian refugees caught in this crisis. The NDP stands ready to assist the new government on this important project,” said Laverdière.

mark_alfred wrote:

I think that's a Liberal partisan shtick.  Make a post, and then for good measure, toss in some statement about being disappointed about the NDP not supporting some positive Liberal thing, even if it's untrue and they have supported it.

Well, I'm not disappointed in the NDP's response because I'm not surprised. How can you be disappointed by that which you've already lost all respect for? I expect Mulcair and Mulcair's NDP to be petty and partisan, not to support Trudeau by making it easier for Trudeau to justify the end of Canada's bombing mission or bringing in refugees, even though that would be the ethically correct to do (in my opinion).

But if you really think the last line of a press statement three weeks ago is sufficient support for Trudeau's position in light of the events that have transpired since and the assault from all sides that Trudeau has been taking, then I think most people would agree you're looking at it from a biased perspective. Three weeks ago it was easy to support the end of our bombing mission and bringing in refugees.

Since the Paris attacks those two topics have become a political hot potato and Mulcair and the NDP have stayed mum on whether or not they still support Trudeau's position. Then again, I don't have twitter or any other social media besides facebook, so maybe they've been offering support on social media?

The Liberal schtick continues even still. 

The House isn't even in session.  Regardless, they're on record not only supporting it but urging the government to take action on the file.  I'm not sure what more you expect.  Daily cheerleading?  I'm sure not even that would appease the typical Liberal supporter.  ETA:  the NDP wrote, “Canadians and the provinces stand ready to help – but we need a roadmap from the federal government.”  Have the Liberals provided a roadmap yet?

Oh FFS. The NDP has been hammered. They are now the third party again. Almost nothing they say is being reported again. But you blame them for not having the same position they took a month ago constantly repeated in the press.

But then there is this today

“New Democrats are proud to stand with Ontarians to welcome Syrian refugees to our community. Understanding the importance of bringing in immigrants, respecting refugees in our society, and standing up for the global community is a part of our strong tradition here in Ontario,” Singh said.

“But a promise alone is not enough. We also need a plan. This government needs to come forward with a plan to ensure that these people receive the services they so desperately need.”

“What is this government’s plan when it comes to housing and other settlement services for these refugees? They need something concrete in addition to just promises.”

The Ontario NDP’s Immigration critic, London-Fanshawe MPP Teresa Armstrong said the government’s plan must include support services for refugees. “This government needs a plan for affordable housing to ensure that the refugees are adequately housed. It needs a plan for services—including mental health services—to ensure that they are adequately taken care of, and this government should ensure that the appropriate language support services are in place,” Armstrong said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/immigration-minister-john-mccallum-1.331...

Earlier this month:

The New Democratic Party, for its part, said it supported the new cabinet committee but said it was disappointed with a lack of details on how exactly the government would get the refugees to Canadian shores. 

"This is the new government's first test on delivering the change they promised to Canadians. We hope that the next announcement, on how they will achieve this goal, is coming very soon," newly elected NDP MP Jenny Kwan said in a statement.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/immigration-minister-john-mccallum-1.331...

"Liberal leader Justin Trudeau promised to bring 25,000 refugees to Canada during the lead up to the Oct. 19 election — a move applauded by the NDP."

http://www.newsfultoncounty.com/politics/news/1015226-canada-forms-commi...

In late October:

"Mulcair says he nonetheless intends to stay on party leader and lead the NDP into the next federal election in four years. Until then, he intends to champion the issue of Syrian refugees, of which prime minister-designate Justin Trudeau has promised to bring some 25,000 to Canada by the end of the year."

http://www.thestar.com/business/2015/10/29/tom-mulcair-to-examine-what-w...

Furthermore, the need to repeat the same message seems odd since the NDP has never contradicted this at any time. This has been the position of the NDP from the start. The NDP never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever suggested any lack of support for the bringing of refugees during the campaign or after. At this point there is little the NDP can say on this issue that would be expected to be reported -- since reporters report news.

Now let's all sign a petition saying how horrible it is that the NDP has not expressed support for the use of oxygen for breathing this month. They must be against. We should really get pissed that there has been no support from Mulcair for the law of gravity. We can't even find comment from him in the past year. And the NDP must hate children becuase they have not advocated the wearing of mittens in winter. The NDP is at fault becuase Mulcair has not come out to express support for labour this month -- he must hate unions after all. And wow, the NDP is shit horrible for not expressing support for sunny ways and blue skies. The NDP campaigned in favour of childcare but it must be a low priority becuase they have only been quoted in the media speaking about it once since the election -- not as often as Syrian refugees.

Seriously now. Go to google. Type in Mulcair and then search. Select News and sort by date. You will see there is some news perhaps 10 stories a day. Now look more closely -- how many times is Mulcair being quoted? I found one on November 9, 11 days ago. The NDP is not getting much press, So to have the above statements about the Syrian refugees in the press is pretty good. Now look at those stories. You will see the kind of priority the NDP has placed on this: Very high. After that, most of the comment has been about the NDP loss, the leadership, shadow cabinet etc. Not much on any other issue and clearly about things the reporters would ask the NDP about. So knowing exactly what the third party's position is on Syrian refugees let me ask you this -- exactly how many questions a day would you expect Mulcair to be asked on this topic?

Pondering, we would be waiting for an apology but we know you have no shame and absolutely no desire to frame any discussion about the NDP honestly. And you wonder why people respond to you with disrespect.

Trudeau's CF-18s are still bombing Syrians and Iraqis. And I just checked to see whether the NDP had reminded him to stop. Can't find anything.

If anyone has access to an NDP statement of any kind demanding a halt to the bombing (as promised by both the Liberals and NDP), let me know please.

Meanwhile, please respond to the almost daily appeal by Matthew Behrens on rabble.ca's Facebook page and elsewhere:

Quote:

Today, Thursday, November 19, Justin Trudeau once again failed to stop Canadian CF-18 bombers from inflicting the kind of horrors seen in this disturbing video of what it is like to be UNDER the bombs and missiles. How can he look at the children and parents in this video and claim that he is ending the bombing "responsibly?" Please email Trudeau again, even if you have done so before, and demand that he stop the bombing NOW. Stopping such horror is the ONLY responsible thing to do. There is no reason why he cannot do so. Visit this weblink to send your message: http://pm.gc.ca/eng/contactpm

... and make sure to send a copy to the NDP.

(re: post #114)  Yes Reverend Pesky, I realize the NDP's statement of support of the Liberal's plan to bring in 25,000 refugees was not enough for you.  And I recall you mentioning other things that disappointed you, like the NDP's desire to raise the corporate tax rate by 2%, which was somehow counter to your perception of "a principled party of the left," (you feeling it should not be raised at all).  Oh well, to each their own.

Morneau just discussed various budget considerations in an expect less sort of way (link).  The NDP will be making a statement about this (it will be on CBC Newsworld shortly).  Perhaps they'll have pom-poms and cheerlead in the vain hope of appeasing you and others of Liberal persuasion, or maybe they'll make some observation from a left-leaning oppositional sort of way (and given that they are in opposition, this is what I expect).

I noticed the NDP in the press today, with this quote: NDP finance critic Guy Caron said. "We have to ensure the government remains fiscally responsible, [but] the idea of balanced budgets at all costs has never been part of our platform."

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/morneau-fiscal-update-1.3327571

What kind of revisionist statement is Caron making? The "balanced budgets at all costs" mantra was spouted by Mulcair constantly throughout the campaign.

mark_alfred wrote:

(re: post #114)  Yes Reverend Pesky, I realize the NDP's statement of support of the Liberal's plan to bring in 25,000 refugees was not enough for you. ...

Whoopee! Now where is the statement from the leader of the NDP on the continued bombing in Iraq and Syria? Where is Mulcair's statement on the killing of civilians by Canadian bombs? Where is Thomas Mulcair?

And Mark, if you want to argue coroporate tax, that's no problem. The first thing you have to learn is that raising corporate taxes doesn't necessarily raise tax revenue, and the second thing is that corporations don't pay taxes, they collect them. That's all that I pointed out about the NDP's tax policy.

If they wanted to do something really revolutionary, they would tax capital.

Statement of Thomas Mulcair on the attacks in Paris, courtesy of the NDP  website:

Quote:

NDP Leader Tom Mulcair made the following statement today:

"Canadians are shocked and horrified by the terrorist attacks in Paris today. We stand with the world in grieving this terrible loss of life and in condemning cowardly violence."

On behalf of all New Democrats, I extend my profound condolences to the families of those killed, and to the people of France.

Today the world is united in grief, and in our determination not to give in to fear. Our prayers are with Paris."

That's it folks, the full and complete statement.

On Sean's argument that it doesn't matter whether you repeat a known position, here are some statements from the NDP website.

Quote:

NDP Leader Tom Mulcair was in Brantford today, joined by NDP candidate Marc Laferriere(Brantford-Brant), as part of his six city Southwestern Ontario Whistle-Stop Harper tour.

“If Ontarians want to defeat Stephen Harper and have better healthcare, cleaner air and water, and real opportunities for jobs and growth, it’s the NDP that will deliver,” said Mulcair. “We can build the Canada of our dreams, and it starts right here in Southwester Ontario.”

Mulcair slammed Harper for his failures on health care, the environment and for losing 400,000 manufacturing jobs, including more than 43,000 in Canada’s auto sector.

“Tom Mulcair is a strong leader who will help families get ahead and fight for good jobs in Brantford,” said Laferriere. “For Canadians who want change in Ottawa, it’s Tom Mulcair that has the plan and the team to get us there.”

On TPP negotiations, Mulcair also slammed the Conservatives and the Liberal Party for their lack of support for the auto industry. He cited a statement by a senior Trudeau advisor advocating letting the big 3 automakers go bankrupt.

“Stephen Harper hasn’t stood up for auto jobs, and Justin Trudeau and the Liberal Party simply won’t,” said Mulcair. “An NDP government will fight for auto jobs with a national auto strategy, support manufacturing, and invest in innovation.”

Quote:

NDP Leader Tom Mulcair was in Waterloo today, joined by NDP candidate Diane Freeman (Waterloo), as part of his six city Southwestern Ontario Whistle-Stop Harper tour.

“If Ontarians want to defeat Stephen Harper and have better healthcare, cleaner air and water, and real opportunities for jobs and growth, it’s the NDP that will deliver,” said Mulcair. “We can build the Canada of our dreams, and it starts right here in Southwestern Ontario.”

Mulcair slammed Harper for his failures on health care, the environment and for losing 400,000 manufacturing jobs, including more than 43,000 in Canada’s auto sector.

“Tom Mulcair is a strong leader who will help families get ahead and bring good jobs to Waterloo,” said Freeman. “For Canadians who want change in Ottawa, it’s Tom Mulcair that has the plan and the team to get us there.”

On TPP negotiations, Mulcair also slammed the Conservatives and the Liberal Party for their lack of support for the auto industry. He cited a statement by a senior Trudeau advisor advocating letting the big 3 automakers go bankrupt.

“Stephen Harper hasn’t stood up for auto jobs, and Justin Trudeau and the Liberal Party simply won’t,” said Mulcair. “An NDP government will fight for auto jobs with a national auto strategy, support manufacturing, and invest in innovation.”

Quote:

NDP Leader Tom Mulcair was in Stratford today, joined by NDP candidate Ethan Rabidoux(Perth-Wellington), as part of his six city Southwestern Ontario Whistle-Stop Harper tour.

“If Ontarians want to defeat Stephen Harper and have better healthcare, cleaner air and water, and real opportunities for jobs and growth, it’s the NDP that will deliver,” said Mulcair. “We can build the Canada of our dreams, and it starts right here in Southwestern Ontario.”

Mulcair slammed Harper for his failures on health care, the environment and for losing 400,000 manufacturing jobs, including more than 43,000 in Canada’s auto sector.

“Tom Mulcair is a strong leader who will help families get ahead and fight for good jobs in Stratford,” said Rabidoux. “For Canadians who want change in Ottawa, Tom Mulcair has both the plan and the team to get us there.”

On TPP negotiations, Mulcair also slammed the Conservatives and the Liberal Party for their lack of support for the auto industry. He cited a statement by a senior Trudeau advisor advocating letting the big 3 automakers go bankrupt.

“Stephen Harper hasn’t stood up for auto jobs, and Justin Trudeau and the Liberal Party simply won’t,” said Mulcair. “An NDP government will fight for auto jobs with a national auto strategy, support manufacturing, and invest in innovation.”

For the hard of reading the same posting occurs two more times. So apparently it is OK to say things more than once. There are also many, many posts on the TPP, so, again, if the NDP thinks something is important, they say it over and over. From reading the website one thing becomes clear, foreign policy is of very little interest to the NDP.

quizzical wrote:

good it shouldn't be a priority.

i liked the statement. nothing more was needed in respect to Paris.

I agree.

Someone said above: "... repeating the policies it already has right just does not seem that important to me or life changing."

But bombing people in Syria and Iraq is life changing for them. I don't understand why the NDP hasn't demanded, just once since the election, if not every single day, that the Trudeau government keep its promise and withdraw from the bombing.

I've written to the PM, with a copy to my NDP MP, asking him to keep his promise and stop, now. I haven't heard from either one of them.

NorthReport wrote:

As much as Trudeau is sure to disappoint, it seems that a rather large number of Canadians are heaving a collective sigh of relief that the anti-people war-mongering Harper government era is over. 

Absolutely

Pondering wrote:

What the NDP needs to win back is credibility.

I didn't even skim the whole post, much less read it. But this pretty much sums up everything that was wrong with the NDP's campaign, as well as explains what is wrong with their current direction post-election.

Again Pondering -- you are missing the point that repeating well known positions are not very productive -- they are very unlikely to be reported. But you don't even bother to check. I guess you just presumed, since the NDP was in favour of the Long Form, that the NDP praising the Liberals on this would not be reported so you could play your propaganda game. I presumed that the NDP were unlikely to be reported on this as most journalist would not report non-news but at least I checked and low and behold, I found comment within a few seconds.

You are also being totally dishonest by neglecting to even do a few seconds of checking. Perhaps you do this becuase you assume most people will think you know what you are talking about and would have checked as any responsible person making an assertion such as this. Your reputation here means that people are more likely to check when you say something becuase the default presumption some of us have with you is that you are lying. And it turns out when you are reporting things that this is often the case.

How many minutes did it take for you to write that long post? I am certain it took me less time to google the information to put the lie to what you are saying.

So before spreading it thick -- why don't you use google and search say -- "NDP" and "Long Form Census" then select "news" then sort by date.

This would, in less than a minute, be able to bring up some of the easiest-to-find (although not all) comment by the NDP on certain topics. Without a paid news monitoring system you may miss a lot but at least you can avoid being called a liar by attacking the NDP and having someone like me come and do a 10 second search to find what you said is BS. The first article I found:

"Several groups including the Federation for the Humanities and Social Sciences, the Canadian Psychological Association, and the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada applauded the Liberal government’s decision to reinstate the long-form census. The NDP also welcomed the move. “Reversing the damage done by the previous administration will be a long-term job and today’s announcement is a good first step,” NDP MP Charlie Angus said in a press release."

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/11/05/trudeau-census-long-form-navdeep...

Note: this was not just comment but a press release. What more do you want???

Interestingly, listen to the clip. You will hear about the 4-minute mark comment about the junior portfolios going to Women. So it seems that Quizzical's concerns have been reported directly here. Perhaps you heard a critcism of the Party and decide not to read the article -- who knows. Clearly you are incable of interpretting what the NDP is saying as you are very selective, you don't do basic research and you write huge articles critical of the NDP without even a few seconds of searching if they might be true.

I agree with you on some aspects of the tone of the NDP but when you include crap like this and show such bias, I just write off the rest of your post as pure stinky propaganda garbage.

If you want people to show more respect for you -- try to show more respect for the truth.

Pondering wrote:

The Liberals are not going to fall from 1st to 3rd in 2019 so the NDP has to push the Conservatives into 3rd or they are the ones that will stay there. 

Judging by recent opinion polls, few who voted Conservative in the election will likely consider voting for the NDP in 2019 while many more who voted Liberal in the election will be open to switching to the NDP. So it makes sense for the NDP to concentrate much more on the large group of NDP-Liberal swing voters than on the small group of NDP-Conservative swing voters.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

The rest of your post is not worthy of response.

The rest of her post looks reasonable to me. What exactly about it is not worthwhile to respond to? Do you disagree with her claim that it will likely be the NDP or Conservatives in 3rd next election? Do you disagree with her idea that attacking the unpopular Conservatives would probably do more to improve the NDP's standings then attacking the Liberals? Do you not see that if the Liberals, with stated policy very similar to the NDP (relative to the Conservatives), are weakened, that this is likely to overall benefit the Conservatives?

Do you contest her point that the NDP's reputation has been damaged and that the NDP is continuing to leave a negative impression on voters (as evidenced by their exceptionally low polling numbers)?

Once again you dismiss an argument from someone you disagree with rather than respond to it. If you don't want to address the points, that's fine ignore them - but don't appeal to ridicule.

I think they're a roti.

Cody87 wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

The rest of your post is not worthy of response.

The rest of her post looks reasonable to me. What exactly about it is not worthwhile to respond to? Do you disagree with her claim that it will likely be the NDP or Conservatives in 3rd next election? Do you disagree with her idea that attacking the unpopular Conservatives would probably do more to improve the NDP's standings then attacking the Liberals? Do you not see that if the Liberals, with stated policy very similar to the NDP (relative to the Conservatives), are weakened, that this is likely to overall benefit the Conservatives?

Do you contest her point that the NDP's reputation has been damaged and that the NDP is continuing to leave a negative impression on voters (as evidenced by their exceptionally low polling numbers)?

Once again you dismiss an argument from someone you disagree with rather than respond to it. If you don't want to address the points, that's fine ignore them - but don't appeal to ridicule.

Cody87, you generallly post very pro Liberal commentary so to start off with, its no surprise you'd agree with Pondering. We can call her commentary out and explain why untill the cows come home, but it doesn't make a difference. Sean is simply calling it what it is. From my perspective, it doens't appear that any of the Liberal posters on here are interested in doing anything other than slagging the NDP, and trying to derail threads. I'm really not sure why they bother; no one important reads what is posted here, and it in no way affects what occurs regarding national dicussion. I guess its just a desire to spread the LPC gospel any place possible.

So, Sean isn't really doing anything out of the normal or unreasonable. He wasn't ridiculing Pondering, he simply said what many of us think, there is absolutely in point in trying to engage her most of the time. And honestly, based on my interactions with you, I have the same feeling about you as well.

There doesn't seem to be any point in tryiing to discuss anything with you. It gets twisted in reply, and confused, full obfuscation. So, post away all you both want. Sometimes we'll engage, and expect people to call a spade, a spade.

Again given how shy you haven't been regarding my writing and posts I would think you'd understand why almost anyone on here would feel the way they do. If I remermber correctly, you asked me if I was a Time Traveller the last time we engaged. That isn't ridicule? Unless of course I got confused and it was someoen else. Certainly, I don't recall you ever coming to my defense on anything. That's odd, isn't it?

ETA: You may both feel you're being rationale or reasoned. But you are Liberals, and post the Liberal line. I'm not a Liberal. I think the Liberal line is purely nonsensical. So expect me, Sean, and everyone else to engage, and again, to call a spade, a spade.

OPSEU's Smokey Thomas calls for the government to sell marijuana at the LCBO, which sounds like a good idea. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/marijuana-liquor-ontario-1.3329529