Possible NDP leadership thread

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nicky

Let me wade back into the question of Tom's poll standings.

I was bitterly disppointed in not just the result of the election but in many aspects of the campaign itself. The party lost about 40% of its support over the course of the campaign and was comprehensively defeated, blowing perhaps its best chance at power ever.

In consequence of this defeat there are some knives out for Tom, perhaps nowhere more evident than on Babble. But we need to look a little deeper before we can conclude that we need to switch leaders.

It would be very damning if the party's popularity and that of the leader collapsed as a result of the campaign. But it is far from clear that is what happened. The EKOS poll I cited above shows Tom's popularity today to be what it was when the party was polling 35% in August.

 Other polling shows that fully 50% of the elctorate considers the NDP to be either its first or second choice. That figure is also aboout where it was in August.

The problem is that a lot of our first choices became second choices over the course of the campaign.

Why was that? It does not seem to be because the public suddenly rejected Tom Mulcair, because he seems to have maintained his popularity. 

I always thought that this election would be about which party was able to establish itself as the main alternative to Harper who was increasingly reviled. Once the Liberals established themselves in that position many voters who preferred the NDP and many who liked Tom switched, not out of repudiation of the NDP or its leader but because they wanted rid of Harper at all costs.

That being said we ran a disaterous campaign that allowed the Liberals to emerge as the alternative. But the campaign did not noticably detract fro the regard the public in general had for either Tom or the party as an acceptable option.

Tactics and strategies can change. Lessons can be learned. I hope they are. 

But we should think hard before we reject a leader who has a 60% approval rating. That means that he is well regarded by fully half of the voters who did not vote NDP. 

Sure another leader may grow into the role or in time establish a similar approval level. But there is absolutely no guarantee that will happen. 

 

scott16

R.E.Wood wrote:

The Conservatives appear to be looking for potential leadership talent outside the elected MP pool, as per this (I can't believe I'm linking to Sun News) article: 

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2015/12/12/caroline-mulroney-lapham-could-be-tories-heir-apparent

Why can't the NDP consider this also? At the very least, the idea of a leader who comes from outside the elected federal caucus should be on the table for consideration.

I also don't buy the concern about someone like Erin Weir's (for example) profile being too low as a reason to not consider him as potential leadership material. Public profile can rise quickly. And - despite Nicky's reasoning - a candidate who starts with a lower approval rating can become very popular once people get to know them. The fact is that people across the country do know Mulciar and clearly don't want him as Prime Minister. We just had the ultimate and only truly accurate poll on that subject: an election.

Do you have proof that they aren't considering that option?

mark_alfred

The NDP have a leader currently, so the comparison with the Conservatives is a mute point.  But, regarding the general idea of looking for a leader that comes from outside of caucus, certainly in the past this occurred, with Jack Layton being an example.

scott16

nicky wrote:

Let me wade back into the question of Tom's poll standings.

I was bitterly disppointed in not just the result of the election but in many aspects of the campaign itself. The party lost about 40% of its support over the course of the campaign and was comprehensively defeated, blowing perhaps its best chance at power ever.

In consequence of this defeat there are some knives out for Tom, perhaps nowhere more evident than on Babble. But we need to look a little deeper before we can conclude that we need to switch leaders.

It would be very damning if the party's popularity and that of the leader collapsed as a result of the campaign. But it is far from clear that is what happened. The EKOS poll I cited above shows Tom's popularity today to be what it was when the party was polling 35% in August.

 Other polling shows that fully 50% of the elctorate considers the NDP to be either its first or second choice. That figure is also aboout where it was in August.

The problem is that a lot of our first choices became second choices over the course of the campaign.

Why was that? It does not seem to be because the public suddenly rejected Tom Mulcair, because he seems to have maintained his popularity. 

I always thought that this election would be about which party was able to establish itself as the main alternative to Harper who was increasingly reviled. Once the Liberals established themselves in that position many voters who preferred the NDP and many who liked Tom switched, not out of repudiation of the NDP or its leader but because they wanted rid of Harper at all costs.

That being said we ran a disaterous campaign that allowed the Liberals to emerge as the alternative. But the campaign did not noticably detract fro the regard the public in general had for either Tom or the party as an acceptable option.

Tactics and strategies can change. Lessons can be learned. I hope they are. 

But we should think hard before we reject a leader who has a 60% approval rating. That means that he is well regarded by fully half of the voters who did not vote NDP. 

Sure another leader may grow into the role or in time establish a similar approval level. But there is absolutely no guarantee that will happen. 

 

Just because they approve of him doesn't mean they'll vote for him.

nicky

I give up. 

Geoff

I suspect New Democrats will follow the polls leading up to Convention, then decide whether or not to support Tom. If he still has a 60% approval rating, maybe they will throw him a lifeline for the time being. If not, we may yet find ourselves in a leadership race.

All that aside, the more important problem is that the Liberals have successfully occupied the place in the political spectrum that NDP  hieracrchy aspired to long before Mulcair became leader. Of course, he was fully supportive of moving the party to the centre, so he can't be divorced from that history.  Regardless, the Liberals won that battle, and it's unlikely the NDP will displace them from that position anytime soon.

The problem now, then, is determining where should the NDP position itself to make its voice heard. Once we've made that decision, there may or may not be a place for Tom Mulcair as leader, probably not given his own centrist tendencies. However, we face a  conundrum: if we abandon our failed campaign to become the centrist replacement for the Liberals, what is our goal, and, once we've resolved our conundrum, who will be best suited to lead the party to achieve whatever that goal turns out to be?

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

The approve-disapprove are so mirror-like it might be worth while to just use the number of approve minus disaprove.

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