Ghomeshi Trial Begins

From a magical information source called google:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_rights_movement

Like woody Allen says...wouldn't  belong to a group that would have someone like me as member 

?

Know what Ward?

You just apologized for not reading up.  And while most of us like to give the benefit of the doubt, this has not been a pleasant thread to be in given all the trolling that has been going on. Again, if you took the 20 minutes or so it would take to read it you'd be up to speed on that and a few other things.

I am fine with conversation and revisiting stuff for the benefit of new people. But it is a two-way street, and I am starting to not be so patient with this back-and-forth that is happening here.

I don't like being played for a fool. And speaking just for myself, I am a bit short of temper on this particular subject.

Ward wrote:

apologies to groucho.

I'm sure he'd be cool with it. The guy gets quoted enough that he's likely able to sustain one sincere misattribution.

Rev Pesky wrote:

Misfit wrote:

...The fact that these women came foreword to testify means that something happened to them in a very negative way. I hate it how people are trivializing violence.

Actually the fact that they came forward means nothing in itself.

That's preposterous. Every woman knows that the public abuse suffered by these three witnesses is exactly the kind of bullshit that survivors who go to court have to face. Why do you think no one wanted to be named? De Coutere should be praised for having the courage to come forward and put her name to it. Every survivor knows that they will be revictimized. That is a big part of why rape and sexual assault are so dramatically under-reported. And yet still this bullshit myth about false reports. And yet still the always predictable accusation that the survivors are "making it up" for some mysterious personal gain.

Oh yes indeed! Just look how much better De Coutere's life is now that she's been involved in this case! I can't wait until I have an opportunity to reap those benefits myself, how bout you?

How many women have to come forward to match the word of one man? There were 7 women who made allegations against Ghomeshi. Seven! How often do you have 7 different allegations against someone? People get sent to prison all the time for crimes that had one witness. But not for sexual assault! Never for sexual assault, not even when you have 7 witnesses who were the actual victims! More than 50 women have accusesd Cosby and still he is proclaimed innocent.

Rev Pesky wrote:

Misfit wrote:

...The fact that these women came foreword to testify means that something happened to them in a very negative way. I hate it how people are trivializing violence.

Actually the fact that they came forward means nothing in itself.

The fact that one person comes forward means very little. The fact that dozens of women have spoken out but only a few would subject themselves to our "justice" system says it all.

Ward wrote:

I agree..

However had the experience of the victims in this case turned out to be a more positive one...would the state still have some say in the matter?

Yes. That is why police lay charges in cases of domestic abuse.

Ward wrote:

Apologies for not reading though the thread...I think this whole business is making me feel a little awkward...I had considered ghomeshi and Lucy to be canadian talents worthy of approval ..now it's all been thrown up in the air.

Why? What have you got against Lucy? Not virginal enough for you?

Ward wrote:

Sorry don't know what mra means..I don't like seeing anyone get hurt. I also don't like seeing people afraid of losing their freedom...and having to deal with a future of being labeled a criminal due to their lack of wisdom. It's the justice system I have a problem  with...I believe ordinary folks can do a better job at making things right..not cops and lawyers and judges...That's  just me though.

Sucker punching someone in the head while you are kissing them is criminal not just lack of wisdom.

So if someone robs you you would just want to have a chat with them and not involve the police.

Ward wrote:

However...you could argue that the fact that that one didn't come forth immediately. ..10+ years ago ...in fact ended up subjecting others to unnecessary violence.

No, the responsibility for a crime rests with the criminal, always, never with the victim.

It is true that sometimes if a victim comes forward they can protect others. In this very case the women that came forward have spared many more women who would have been Ghomeshi's victims however it is not their responsibility to do so. They didn't subject anyone to violence. Ghomeshi did that.

I disagree...it's every citizens responsibility to not provide coverage to criminals.

Life is abusive...we are all victims...none of us get a free pass.

Thanks for outing yourself Ward. It means I can stop wasting time and energy on this.

Despite what you say, victims who are too scared to come forward are not responsible for the actions of perpetrators. And that goes double for sexual assault cases where accusers are raked over the coals, have their personal lives opened to the public, and are treated like they are the guilty ones.

On another note, You have been here since 2006, eh?

Ward wrote:

Life is abusive...we are all victims...none of us get a free pass.

Sorry I think I was not clear enough in my last post. Fuck off asshole. Crawl back under the rock you crawled out from you lizard. One of the few places where an intelligent conversation about abuse can take place and you want to shit in it. I love how you refuse to read any articles and then spew venom.

It's our fault. Right.

at least you could do us the favour of cutting to the chase rather than being coy about it with this 20 questions bullshit.

you want passion? Well you will excuse me if I try to not be rude.

if you admit to being "uneducated" about this then why would you want to be heard?

listening = shutting the fuck up

I need a recap of my offensive perspectives...I thought I was just forwarding the notion that sex  and criminality (in the adult context) is big trouble.

Sex and criminality is not big trouble?

Ward wrote:

I've been on this forum for years because I believe this is the place where difficult questions are talked about by intelligent and passionate folks such as yourself.... 

You told me that I had an obligation to stand up to abuse so I was just taking your advice. When some one tells you your words are triggering in a thread on sexual abuse maybe you need to google the term and educate yourself. Although I suspect you are just being willfully blind and deliberately nasty.

I get it..I'm just anticipating that the courts are going to find him not guilty. ..so who am I to argue with that.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Ward wrote:

I've been on this forum for years because I believe this is the place where difficult questions are talked about by intelligent and passionate folks such as yourself.... 

You told me that I had an obligation to stand up to abuse so I was just taking your advice. When some one tells you your words are triggering in a thread on sexual abuse maybe you need to google the term and educate yourself. Although I suspect you are just being willfully blind and deliberately nasty.

I need a like button.

Edit - Sorry, I missed putting in the link. - here it is http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/svea-vikander/2016/02/day-12-jian-ghomes...

This is incident number fifteen.

It was 2003. I was 17 and at a show for some band at some Western Canada music festival. ..

I had always wanted to crowd surf. 

I imagined it as a quasi-spiritual experience. What could be better than hundreds of people supporting your weight as you float above them, buoyed by their collective will? What better hallmark of surrender than to throw oneself onto the crowd?

Somebody else threw themselves first. I went second.

It could have been worse. I didn't, for example, fall flat on the floor. But everybody grabbed my nether regions. Like, real grabs. Hard grabs, getting right in there. 

I wanted down right away but had to wait until the crowd passed me to the back of the concert venue.

After being groped by what felt like a hundred men I was deposited at the feet of Strombo himself. I was a bit shaken up but celebrity is celebrity and I can be awfully charming after I've been assaulted. I introduced myself and we shook hands. He is known for being very polite.

***

I assumed that this was just what happened when women crowdsurfed. I figured it was one of the many hard truths I was learning about life and the restrictions of being a woman. At least, having done it once, I figured, I knew not to do it again.

It wasn't until more than a decade later, on hearing about an incident in which Aaron Lewis, lead singer of Staind, stopped his live show to berate audience members for "molesting" a crowdsurfing teenaged girl that I realized that this experience wasn't...inevitable. Pre-ordained. Part of the great Chain of Being. That I wasn't just a dumb kid who had put herself at risk (I was!) but also that I should and perhaps someday could be able to trust men to do the crowd-surfing thing without trying to insert themselves into my body.

....

"Listen up you fucking assholes, that fucking girl over right there is like 15 fucking years old and you fucking pieces of shit are molesting her while she's on the fucking crowd....You should all be fucking beaten down by everyone around you for being fucking pieces of shit....If I fucking see that shit again I swear to God I will point you out in the crowd and have everyone around you beat your fucking ass."

And apparently (you can't see it in the video), he goes on to say, "Now, girls, feel free to crowd-surf safely."

I knew that I was unhappy with what had happened. I knew I regretted going on stage and regretted throwing myself onto the crowd. I didn't know that I had been molested until someone else told me.....

We're socialized to think that this kind of uncomfortable, difficult event is just the everyday cost of being female. That part of being a woman is knowing how to "handle yourself" in these situations: how to walk that fine line between exerting enough pressure on the man to stop his behavior but not so much that the situation gets worse. When someone waltzes in and says, "Nope, that's not only unnecessary and unethical, it's also illegal and it is described by words that you previously associated with the evening news" it can throw you for a tailspin. It's like having grown up with an undiagnosed medical disorder and suddenly meeting someone else with the same thing, and they have a name for it.

Like Michael Bryant. Because being an entitled macho prick and being a rich guy indulging in vehicular homicide against a scruffy soul are acceptable behaviour.

Remember that Darcy was also not a "good victim". Media pundits said that cycling activists should have chosen another "poster boy". Nobody chose him; Bryant killed him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich

Go home, Ward, you're drunk.

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