Syrian war: Russian Air Strikes Destroy MSF Children's Hospital

Oh for fucks sake LOL, sure NDPP, just ignore the Russin SU fighter bomber shown flyng over the area right before the cluster bombs hit...

I'm not saying it was wrong, I'm just saying it happened and Russia is using cluster bombs in urban areas (as shown before our very eyes). Not that anybodys really cares.

You can't say that it happened. Even the UN Security Council found no hard evidence it was a Russian strike. As you may know the counterclaim is that it was a US strike. Since it's in rebel territory and Uncle Sam apparently advocates for Al Qaeda now, why not come up with some hard evidence of Russian submunitions. Otherwise I'm afraid I'm filing your latest nifty video 'proof' with your photos of phantom Russian tank columns in Novorossiya or your bs 'proof' of Assad's gas attack etc.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I know that if this was Press TV coverage or RT coverage of the Ukraine you would never accept this as evidence of anything.

Untrue, and that pales to your constent denial of any evidence thet implicates Russia on anything... you are at like 100% denial rate... LOL

So now the video is fake? Search "Photos of Russian cluster bombs in Syria" on google or Yahoo... you woun't like what you find. Theres pictures of dud bomblets from Russian made cluster bombs all over the internet; so many in fact it's kind's hard to say they are all fake (or maybe it isn't in your case).

The allegations failed at the UN Security Council where the supposed evidence was found unconvincing.

I am not denying the Russian bombing campaign in Syria has produced collateral damage and civilian casualities. But not this time. If Russian responsibility for these western reports emanating from Turkey could be proven, it would have. It hasn't. Not even by MSF itself.

It is far more likely this is a US war-crime, with a massive Western propaganda campaign to shift blame to Russia, designed to halt the imminent demise of its takfiri proxy forces in the area, and the failure of its Syrian project. Given the US Coalition's lack of consent from any lawful Syrian authority to conduct any bombing in Syria, the magnitude of its collective criminality increases exponentially. Anything else, like this latest media offensive, is only a diversion from this central fact.

US Airstrikes Kill 38 Civilians Over 48 Hours

https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-airstrikes-kill-38-syrian-civilians-ove...

"...The inaccuracy of the Hasakeh strikes, coming in the only Syrian province which has US ground troops, also adds to doubts about the intelligence upon which the US coalition is basing its airstrikes around Syria.

Clearly, strikes like the bakery give the appearance of using the 'signature strike' tactic, just bombing anything on the ground that the pilot thinks might be important."

US Airstrike Kills Two Serbian Nationals in Libya

http://ahtribune.com/world/africa/545-airstrikes-in-libya-serbian.html

"Warplanes belonging to the US hit a training camp in Sabrathay in Western Libya on Friday, killing at least 49 people and injuring six. Belgrade has confirmed the death of two Serbian captives in the strike, both of whom were being held at the camp. Russian media reports ransom negotiations were underway with the kidnappers at the time of their death.

**The US State Department can act confounded at confirmation of civilian casualties due to its airstrikes, but the facts bear a profoundly different story than the one Josh Earnest would have the public believe.

One year into the US airstrike campaign against the so called Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, the US had launched more than 5,700 strikes. Airwars, an accountability project run by independent journalists, found one year into the campaign, 'credible reports of at least 459 non-combatant deaths, including those of more than 100 children.'

The most recent data from Airwars regarding the US airstrike campaigns on Iraq and Syria shows the number of coalition airstrikes since initial reports in August have nearly doubled to 10,460. At minimum, 940 civilians..."**

Given the voluminous and well documented criminal involvement of the West in arming, training and supporting the Takfiri invasion/destruction of Syria as a weapon to achieve regime change and geostrategic aims, and the catastrophic consquences for the country and people of Syria, and the world, you should reassess your obscene advocacy in its favour.

NDPP wrote:

I am not denying the Russian bombing campaign in Syria has produced collateral damage and civilian casualities. But not this time.

Oh, so they're doing it. But when we happen to be talking about any specific instance, they didn't do it. It was Americans.

Thanks for answering my question.

Quote:

MSF called on UN Security Council member states  - specifically France, Russia, UK and US as active participants in the Syrian conflict -  to abide by resolutions they have passed to halt the carnage and ensure that their allies are applying due protection of civilians and avoidance of conflict in or over civilian areas.
  
In a report issued today, MSF details the toll of the conflict on civilians, based on data from 70 hospitals and clinics that MSF supports in northwestern, western and central Syria. In all, 154,647 war-wounded people and 7,009 war-dead were documented in the facilities in 2015, with women and children representing 30 to 40 percent of the victims.

[url=http://www.msf.ca/en/article/war-in-syria-msf-report-shows-more-than-one... calls on France, Russia, UK and USA to stop bombing[/url] - froma  few days ago

So a former donor is no longer a donor.

Is this really such a "booyah" moment?  Who's supposed to choke on what, here?

Nonsense. The idea was that exposure of MSF and their nefarious actions as a tool for geo-political ends might induce a re-think.

And because they complained about someone bombing their hospital.

The nerve of them patching up those kids. I can't imagine anything more nefarious and geopolitical than that.

Not sure what is more absurd; ikosmos's defense of bombing civilians if you happen to be Russian or Syrian,  or NDPP with his "schroedinger's bomber" line. You know, the one that kills civilians, but only when you aren't looking at it.

from Feb 21 - to summarize, then ...

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Accusations and denials continue to be traded between the West’s NGO, Doctors Without Borders or officially Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF), and the Russian and Syrian government. [b]Despite the gravity of the accusations by the West and MSF, which suggest “deliberate” and egregious war crimes, they have thus far produced no evidence.[/b] Not only have they produced no evidence, they openly admit that so far, they have none.

No evidence. Ziltch. It's extremely irresponsible for such organizations to make such spurious but highly damaging claims without a shred of evidence. But, hey, it's Russia, so anything goes.

Quote:

For an international organization to accuse two nations of “war crimes” with admittedly nothing more than “accounts,” not from an MSF hospital and their staff, but from an alleged hospital “supported by” MSF and run by local staff, indicates self-serving political motivation, not impartial, selfless charity.  But beyond baseless accusations, this most recent incident reveals something far more sinister MSF may be guilty of.

[b]MSF’s Use and Abuse of the Geneva Conventions [/b]

MSF showed, by their discussion of the US bombing of their own hospital in Afghanistan, that they understand very well the Conventions and their details. Details like the necessity of providing precise GPS details of their hospital locations, clearly identifying their hospitals, etc.

Quote:

As MSF does in all conflict contexts, these precise locations were communicated to all parties on multiple occasions over the past months, including most recently on 29 September.

This was Afghanistan.

Quote:

MSF clearly understands the Geneva Conventions, and in a modern context, understands that to avoid violating the Conventions, making a hospital visible to military land, air, and naval forces requires that the GPS coordinates of the hospital be given to all parties of the conflict. They are thus, “marked,” satisfying the Geneva Conventions’ requirements.

However, in Syria, MSF is in clear violation of the Geneva Conventions.

Got it? Who's the war criminal in Syria?

Unmarked Hospitals Violate the Geneva Conventions

Quote:

MSF said it had not provided the hospital’s GPS coordinates to Syrian or Russian authorities, at the request of local staff.

They admit it.

Quote:

Furthermore, MSF’s admission that its hospitals are unmarked directly contradict their assertion that the attacks on these unmarked hospitals were “deliberate.” Indeed, in the same Reuters article, MSF would paradoxically claim that:While MSF accuses Syria and Russia of violating the Geneva Conventions – accusations both Syria and Russia deny, MSF itself blatantly admits that it violated the Conventions itself....

If the hospitals were unmarked and concealed in fear of being deliberately attacked, how then, were they still deliberately attacked? That will be yet another significant claim now incumbent upon MSF and their “independent inquiry” to answer adequately with accompanying evidence.

So, in conclusion...

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In reality, like a previous string of accusations leveled at both Syria and Russia, no evidence will be provided, no inquiry will be opened, and no truth will be arrived at.

Sorta like that aircraft [MH-17] that was shot down by the Ukrainian fascist regime, huh?

Oh, one more tid-bit.

Quote:

Readers should recall that [b]it was also MSF who played a pivotal role in attempting to frame the Syrian government for a large-scale chemical weapons attack near Damascus in 2013.[/b] It would later turn out that evidence implicated terrorists and their Turkish and Saudi sponsors. Even at that time, MSF would admit that its organization focused on providing “care” to those fighting the Syrian government – now all admittedly Al Qaeda-affiliates and/or “Islamic State” terrorists. It appears that in addition to medical aid, MSF is providing significant rhetorical aid to their cause as well.

Helping the terrorists. Violating the Geneva Convention. Contributing to the US plans to destroy Syria [which would have killed millions] by trying to frame the Syrian government. Liars, liars, liars.

There is still a complete lack of independent verification of these alleged strikes. What is going on here is the usual chorus of Western imperialism's 'progressive' cheerleaders who loudly lament only when prompted by the Guardian or other msm mouthpieces, and only against the West's official enemies. The silence by the same left-liberals as Western supported, GCC funded takfiri monsters tore up Syria, gruesomely killing hundreds of thousands in yet another Western-backed 'regime change' operation, or Nazi militiamen committed unspeakable horrors and shelling of resisting civilian villages in Donbas,  is now legendary. These rather ridiculous and transparent faux humanitarians, who railed against Muammar Gaddafi and supported 'Arab Spring' and R2P Canadian bombs on Libya have zero credibility with me here as I've watched them in action. Or more to the point, inaction. One only has to look at the list of this country's growing filthy involvements and the virtual lack of any progressive response of any kind to verify their very dodgy status as credible critics of anything at all.

Unprecedented Death Toll as US Drone and Air Strikes Kill 150 in Somalia

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/03/07/unprecedented-death-toll-us-...

"The Bureau of Investigative Journalism called the death toll 'unprecedented' - the highest in a US counter-terrorism strike yet recorded anywhere since the group launched in 2010. To avoid counting civilian deaths, Obama redefined 'militant' to mean 'all military age males in a strike zone..."

Well they seem to be on some kind of quota system, replying to each other as much as possible. It isn't necessary to try to equal their output.

I started attending protests against the Vietnam War when I was 12 or 13 - a long, long time ago. My latest protest was against the business interests who murdered Berta Cáceres.

The noisy allegations by MSF, now abandoned and not claimed on their web pages (check for yourself) , have done their dirty work in the battle of ideas. The Western MSM moves on. There will never be apologies for such incendiary claims as they made. They will simply make more, and different, claims, knowing full well that previous claims simply go down the rabbit hole of forget. 

The lives of the Syrian people hang in the balance, still, the destruction of their country still being planned by the brutal US regime and its allies in Canada, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc. And I see here some babblers want to pat themselves on the back, lauding their own political credibility, etc. , rather than really address that life and death question. 

If not for the Russian AF, then the monstrous Sunni jihadists would be flying the black flag over Damascus, cannibalistically gorging on those they consider apostates, etc. It just really sticks in the craw of some people - and not just the neo cons and liberal proponents of "humanitarian" bombings - that those dastardly Russians have saved the day for the Syrian people. Of course, give the SAA their due; but the Russian intervention turned the tide. And the apoplectic rage is palpable.

The methods of warfare of the US Empire include the weaponizing of all sorts of things. This includes NGOs now. People who want to help others, to help the Syrian people, are going to have to be very choosy about which organization they support. And they may just have to invent their own organizations to be sure. MSF isn't getting a nickel from me, that's for sure.

The dastardly Russians are preparing to leave Syria and just maintain their two bases. You must be furious, Smith.