South China Sea

China is the Bully of the East and deserves a good thumpin'
Unfortunately once again it will be left up to the USA to settle them down

swallow wrote:

Calling the Philippines' population "brainwashed" and entire Asian non-aligned countries US "sock puppets" is, in my view, tiptoeing towards racist imagery. 

The US killed a million Philipinos in the Spanish-American War (the first real colonial war [excluding the ethnic cleansing of First Nations] by the USA for which it was denounced by that great American, Samuel Clemens, and other great lights of humanity) and this has been virtually erased from Philipino consciousness. But Filipinos, by and large, unremember the slaughter of their countrymen/women and think the USA brought only blessings of Merrica. And the data on the brainwashing is well documented; fill your boots.

<strong>Eduardo Tadem, Professor of Asian Studies at the University of Philippines</strong> wrote:

Also remember that Philippine presidents were consistently supportive of the US. You probably saw the survey that shows that the Philippine people love the United States more than Americans love themselves. So for the Americans it is easy to get support for their China policy here.”

The above is from a Philipino professor. I guess he's racist against Philipinos as well?

This stuff is no different from the pathological Russophobia in North America and Europe. But noting that fact isn't "racist" is it?

Filipinos like the US even more than Americans do

Servility to the USA will not help the Aquino regime

The last link is, I think, from a time when Al Jazeera wasn't itself so obsequious to US interests as it is now.

Never disputed the survey, ikosmos, attitudes in the Philippines towards American culture are probably the most pro-US in the world, for sure.
But you're suggesting entire nations can't think for themselves, that they are mindless tools of America. It is my personal opinion, again, that this denial of agency to people of colour is tiptoeing towards racism. 

The War of 1898 (which Americans call the Spanish-American war, but which really should be called the Spanish-American-Filipino-Cuban War for all the peoples who fought in it) is very much alive in Filipino historical consciousness. It is often mentioned - the Sison article you linked mentions it, for instance. So too is the popular struggle against US bases that was finally successful. 

Sison is a reliable voice of the Philippines left. Note what he says in the article you linked: 

Quote:

Because the Philippines now feels protected from China's bullying this has emboldened the Aquino government to oppose China's nine-dash line claim over the South China Sea. The exaggerated image of China as a threat to the security of other countries is used as justification to further entrench US military power in the Philippines and has given the US an opportunity to expand militarily in the Asia-Pacific region.

However, China itself has not helped to allay fears because of its claims to 90 percent of the South China sea, including the high seas. China has also threatened to grab the Philippine exclusive economic zone and extended continental shelf to the extent of 90 percent and 100 percent, respectively, in violation of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

In other words, both the US and China are acting aggressively towards smaller powers. I agree with Sison's analysis. Do you, or do you insist that all Filipinos are puppets of te US empire, incapable of agency? 

Also, it's Filipino/Finipina, not Philipino, just fyi.

ilha formosa wrote:

Wow that's a HUGE chunk of the SCS China is claiming.

ilha formosa wrote:

Making over-reaching claims is a good way to start a dispute. Just go and try claiming the land in front of your neighbor’s doorstep. Do the same to the neighbor across the very busy street and another down the street from there. Patrol the area and demand that all people identify themselves and their reason for transiting through the rough triangle demarcated by these points you’ve seized (like an air defence identification zone). Also claim exclusive rights to subsurface resources, even those in your neighbor’s former front yard. See if the neighbor doesn’t get pissed off as you get wealthy from those resources. And if he does tell him tough shit power flows from the barrel of a gun and I’ve got more firepower than you. Or, try to make a back room deal with him to give the rules you set over the 'hood an appeareance of greater legitimacy.

Gee you seem to be describing BC in the 1850's. Of course the British won the right to steal the land and resources after Douglas pushed back against the American miners who wanted to turn BC into the next California or Texas. Mind you we are still overriding the rights of First Nations in this province because we have the firepower and we also now have the appearance of Truth and Reconciliation while we steal land and resources.

I agree with you ilha formosa that only white settlers should have the ability to steal land and resources when anyone else does it is just wrong, wrong, wrong and everyone from "democratic" countries should vilify them.

NorthReport wrote:

Shouldn't this thread be entitled South Philippine Sea?

North or West Philippine Sea maybe or the Sulu Sea but certainly not South Philippine. 

So, near as I can gather, reclaiming islands and trying to ensure that the US military doesn't completely dominate the entire planet is "aggression" by China. Blovation about militarizing islands is speculation aimed at justifying more Yanqui sabre-rattling. I suppose this is much the same as Russian assistance to prevent ethnic cleansing in Ukraine is "aggression" by Russia. It's all so predictable and follows the script of the Wolfowitz Doctrine, that is ...

Quote:

Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere ... This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.

Nothing has changed. The hegemon will never accept a rival of any kind. The contempt with which the USA treats international courts, the law of the sea, bans on torture, ex-judicial execution by drones, endless war crimes against entire countries and regions of the planet, etc. etc.,   is only matched by the shrill and barking orders that it gives for others to obey such rules and laws.

There is an expression in law called "fruit of the poisonous tree", which basically argues that claims, evidence, etc., from illegal and criminal actions are themselves tainted by the original crime. Now this is only a legal metaphor but it's a good one - virtually everything the US does in the international arena is tainted like this. Poisonous.

In particular, US lectures to the rest of the world about following this or that law are completely worthless when that barbarous regime does not and has no intention of obeying international agreements, etc., if it is not in the advantage of that regime.

Escobar's upcoming reads should be of interest. I would recommend having a close look at them and that might help babblers free themselves from parrotting the missives of the Empire.

It's Western Philippine Sea, according to Filipinos. 

But of course, when I say Filipinos (or Malaysians, or Indonesians, or Vietnamese) the defenders of Chinese imperial agression will simply read "American" and deny that Southeast Asians can think for themselves. 

swallow wrote:

It's Western Philippine Sea, according to Filipinos. 

But of course, when I say Filipinos (or Malaysians, or Indonesians, or Vietnamese) the defenders of Chinese imperial agression will simply read "American" and deny that Southeast Asians can think for themselves. 

The defenders of Pax Americana believe that no one from anywhere in the world, except the US of A, can think for themselves. I actually think that South Asians are capable of resolving their own problems without the Americans telling them what to do. 

kropotkin1951 wrote:

swallow wrote:

It's Western Philippine Sea, according to Filipinos. 

But of course, when I say Filipinos (or Malaysians, or Indonesians, or Vietnamese) the defenders of Chinese imperial agression will simply read "American" and deny that Southeast Asians can think for themselves. 

The defenders of Pax Americana believe that no one from anywhere in the world, except the US of A, can think for themselves. I actually think that South Asians are capable of resolving their own problems without the Americans telling them what to do. 

I agree 100%. (As an aside, South Asian = India + Pakistan + neighbours, East Asia = China + Japan + Korea, Southeast Asia = Burma, Vietnam, and points SE - ie ASEAN members in general. I don't think any South Asian countries are directly involved, although in general [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_South_China_Se... is siding with Vietnam and against China[/url].)

There is a dispute between several Southeast Asian countries and China. All countries involved are capable of making their own decisions. All have the right to appeal to UN tribunals, too. 

I think that the Chinese are wrong to deny the rights of the international community to protect its shipping. China didn't have any such rights until the evil Communists seized control. It would be better for all if we went back to the rules that were in place until WWII.

I for one cannot think of a single reason why the Chinese would not want Americans involved in their affairs. For over 70 years they showed themselves to be benevolent overseers of the backward Chinese who wanted to run their own country.

Quote:

During the 1860s and 1870s, American merchant ships were prominent on the lower Yangtze, operating up to the deepwater port of Hankow 680 mi (1,090 km) inland. The added mission of anti-piracy patrols required U.S. naval and marine landing parties be put ashore several times to protect American interests. In 1874, the U.S. gunboatUSS Ashuelot, reached as far as Ichang, at the foot of the Yangtze gorges, 975 miles (1,569 km) from the sea. During this period, most US personnel found a tour in the Yangtze to be uneventful, as a major American shipping company had sold its interests to a Chinese firm, leaving the patrol with little to protect. However, as the stability of China began to deteriorate after 1890, the U.S. naval presence began to increase along the Yangtze.[1]

20th century

In 1901, American-flagged merchant vessels returned to the Yangtze when Standard Oil Companyplaced a steam tanker in service on the lower river. Within the decade, several small motorships began hauling kerosene, the principal petroleum product used in China for that company. At the same time, the Navy acquired three Spanish-built vessels (the gunboats USS Elcano, Villalobosand Callao), which it had seized in the Philippines during the Spanish–American War. These vessels became the core of the Yangtze River patrol for the first dozen years of the 20th century, but they lacked the power to go beyond Ichang onto the more difficult stretches of the river.

The USS Palos and Monocacy were the first American gunboats built specifically for service on the Yangtze river. The Mare Island Naval Shipyard in Vallejo, California built them in 1913. The U.S. Navy then had them disassembled and shipped to China aboard the American steamer Mongolia. The Kiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai reassembled them and put them into service in 1914.

Later in 1914, both vessels demonstrated their ability to handle the rapids of the upper river when they reached Chungking, which was more than 1,300 mi (2,100 km) from the sea, and then went further to Kiating on the Min River. In 1917, the U.S. entered World War I. The U.S. rendered the guns of Palos and Monocacy inoperable to protect Chinese neutrality. After China entered the war on the side of the allies, the U.S. Navy reactivated the guns.

In 1917, the first Standard Oil tanker reached Chungking, and a pattern of American commerce on the river began to emerge. On January 17, 1918, armed Chinese men attacked Monocacy and she was forced to return fire with her 6-pounder gun. Passenger and cargo service by American-flag ships began in 1920 with the Robert Dollar Line and the American West China Company. They were followed in 1923 by the Yangtze River Steamship Company, which stayed on the river until 1935, long after the other American passenger-cargo ships were gone.

In the early 1920s, the patrol found itself fighting the forces of deadly warlords and ruthless bandits. To accommodate its increased responsibilities on the river, the Navy constructed six new gunboats in Shanghai in 1926–1927 and commissioned in 1928 to replace four craft originally seized from Spain during the Spanish–American War that had been patrolling since 1903. All were capable of reaching Chungking at high water, and two year-round. USS Luzon and Mindanao were the largest, USS Oahu and Panay next in size, and USS Guam and Tutuila the smallest. These vessels gave the navy the capability it needed at a time when operational requirements were growing rapidly.

In the late 1920s, Chiang Kai-shek and the Northern Expedition created a volatile military situation for the patrol along the Yangtze. During the early-1930s, National Revolutionary Army took control of much of the north bank of the middle river. The climax of hostilities occurred in 1937 with theRape of Nanking and the sinking of Panay by the Japanese. The USS Panay incident was the first loss of a US Navy vessel in the conflict which would soon become World War II.[2]

ilha formosa wrote:

Despite the sorrows caused and atrocities committed by the US in Vietnam and the Philippines, both Asian countries now have closer military ties with the global hegemon in order to counterbalance the regional hegemon. Not saying it's right, good or desirable; they know their own circumstances and chose from the options before them.

I think you have gotten drunk on the Yankee koolade.  When has the US empire every helped anyone except its own oligarchy? This is a fight over oil and gas just like in Syria and Iran and Iraq. It is being driven by American oil and gas oligarchs and they like to bribe anyone that can help them access resources. You know like Kinder Morgan trying to bribe First Nations in BC to support its pipelines.

..not sure if this is a drift or not but wanted to show an expression of discontent by a people in the area as well as the distance between them and their governments.

Okinawa: Tens of Thousands Protest U.S. Bases After Woman's Murder

In Japan, tens of thousands of people gathered on the island of Okinawa to demand the ouster of U.S. military bases. Activists said 65,000 people attended what they called the largest protest in two decades against the U.S. military presence. The protests erupted after a former marine working as a civilian contractor at a U.S. base was accused of raping and murdering a 20-year-old woman. The victim’s father has called for the removal of all U.S. bases on Okinawa, which hosts about 26,000 U.S. troops. At Sunday’s rally, Lia Camargo said U.S. soldiers should also be held accountable for their crimes.

Lia Camargo: "The slogans are like 'get the bases out of here,' but I don’t think it’s that simple. I think making sure that the responsibility of the soldiers, if they do commit a crime, that has to be weighed in the same gravity as a Japanese person who commits that same crime."

I remember the Filipino people's struggle to remove US bases. It was a good model.