At Issue Panel - The best and worst of 2016

An interesting discussion overall.

1) I agree with Chantal Hébert & Althia Raj that Stéphane Dion has been a poor Foreign Affairs Minister.  He's just been a total mess in that role.

2) I think Chantal & Althia are also right about how poorly-organized Tom Mulcair & his leadership team were.  As Chantal says, it seems that Mulcair's team can't even count!

3) Chantal also made an interesting choice by picking Trudeau as the winner of Elbowgate.  As she said, the NDP overplayed their hand and allowed Trudeau to come out looking very good.

Seems a lot of folk believe that the CBC is just the bought-and-paid-for mouthpiece of the Harper government.  But lots of other folk believe they're beholden to the Liberal government.  And even more folk believe they're the latte-sipping, Toronto-worshipping left wing media.

So they must be doing something right.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Seems a lot of folk believe that the CBC is just the bought-and-paid-for mouthpiece of the Harper government.  But lots of other folk believe they're beholden to the Liberal government.  And even more folk believe they're the latte-sipping, Toronto-worshipping left wing media.

So they must be doing something right.

I find that like most state media they support the government almost all the time and always give them the benefit of the doubt. That is what state broadcasters do.

jjuares wrote:

Debater wrote:

An interesting discussion overall.

1) I agree with Chantal Hébert & Althia Raj that Stéphane Dion has been a poor Foreign Affairs Minister.  He's just been a total mess in that role.

2) I think Chantal & Althia are also right about how poorly-organized Tom Mulcair & his leadership team were.  As Chantal says, it seems that Mulcair's team can't even count!

3) Chantal also made an interesting choice by picking Trudeau as the winner of Elbowgate.  As she said, the NDP overplayed their hand and allowed Trudeau to come out looking very good.

Trudeau walks over tells people to get the fuck out the of his way grabs someone against their will and most Canadians think that makes him look good? A lot of people seem to have lost their moral compass. Maybe they want their boss to do it to them. Give your head a shake.

I think you're missing Chantal Hébert's point.

If you watch the video she says that Trudeau's actions during Elbowgate were unacceptable.  However, the NDP portrayed it in an overdramatic fashion.  The NDP blew it by making accusations that an accidental elbow was a terrible crime that was akin to spousal abuse.

And because Trudeau apologized multiple times and showed remorse, Canadians thought the NDP (& the Conservatives) made too a big a deal out of it.

I agree that Trudeau's behaviour was unacceptable.  He shouldn't have gone over and touched the Conservative Whip, even if he thought the NDP were blocking him.  If he hadn't done that, he wouldn't have accidentally elblowed REB in the first place.

And the point of analyzing this in terms of political advantage is because that is the job of the At Issue panel.  The creator of this thread asked us to respond to the video above.

Debater wrote:

I agree that Trudeau's behaviour was unacceptable.  He shouldn't have gone over and touched the Conservative Whip, even if he thought the NDP were blocking him.  If he hadn't done that, he wouldn't have accidentally elblowed REB in the first place.

And the point of analyzing this in terms of political advantage is because that is the job of the At Issue panel.  The creator of this thread asked us to respond to the video above.

mark_alfred wrote:

jjuares wrote:

Oh, I understand the point. Did you not notice that the elbow part of the confrontation which the NDP emphasized and played into the Liberals hand went unmentioned by me? Leave that out and you still have some terrible behaviour on Trudeaus part. I am talking about morals and ethics not political advantage. I guess talking about those things to LIberals is to speak to them in a foreign unrecognizable language. So, it is understandable you missed my point.

I think the reality though is there would have been only a minor story without the elbow.  The elbow caused REB to miss a vote, meaning that Trudeau's actions caused a loss of privilege for her (that being the privilege to vote on motions before the House).  Brown suffered no such loss of privilege, and so his being grabbed was not an issue.  Had REB been able to cast a vote, then she too would have suffered no loss of privilege, and it would not have been an official issue for the Speaker and House to deal with.  It may have become gossip, but otherwise would not have been an issue.  Ultimately the issue of loss of privilege was dropped by the opposition, but this initially was the entire focus, as I understand it.

 

Caissa wrote:

Is Elbowgate still a story? As a New democrat, I cringe every time someone mentions it. We came off looking petty and opportunistic.

jjuares wrote:

Caissa wrote:

Is Elbowgate still a story? As a New democrat, I cringe every time someone mentions it. We came off looking petty and opportunistic.

Yup. The best response for the NDP was no response. Let Trudeau own it.

I think the NDP's troubles over the last year have been mostly self-inflicted. I think the worst play in politics over the last 12 months by far was Mulcair's promise to maintain surplus budgets for the entire term of an NDP government. Many people thought the NDP had given away the election the moment Mulcair made that announcement. The fact that many people saw what was going on while the NDP's brain trust didn't says a lot about what's keeping the NDP back.