Brexit

from Kunstler.com

Britain illustrates the problem nicely: how to produce “wealth” without producing wealth. It’s called “the City,” their name for the little district of London that is their Wall Street. In the absence of producing real things, the City became the driver of the UK’s economy, a ghastly parasitical organism that functioned as the central transfer station for the world’s swindles and frauds, churning the West’s dwindling residual capital into a slurry of fees, commissions, arbitrages, rigged casino bets, and rip-offs. In the process, it enabled the European Central Bank (ECB) to run the con-job that the European Union (EU) became, with the fatal distortions of credit that have put its members into a ditch and sent the private European banks off a cliff, Thelma and Louise style.

The next stage of this protean global melodrama is what happens when currencies and interest rates become completely unglued from their assigned roles as patsies in financial racketeering. Sooner or later we’ll know what’s going on in the vast shadowy gloaming of “derivatives,” especially the “innovative” arrangements that affect to be “insurance” against losses in currency and interest rate “positions” — bets made on the movements of these things. When currencies rise or fall quickly, these so-called “swaps” are “triggered,” and then some hapless institution is left holding a big bag of dog-shit. A zombie is a terrible thing to behold, but a zombie holding a bag of dog-shit is like unto the end of the world.

Once this contagion starts burning, the people-in-charge won’t be able to quell it the way they did last time: by drowning it in torrents of money-from-nowhere. At least not without inducing real-deal inflation, the kind that leads to epochal ruin and more intense political upheaval: the nation-changing kind.

..edit to change the 2nd link

They Want Their Party Back

quote:

In reality, Corbyn not only has the support of the overwhelming majority of members, but twelve trade unions have signed a statement in his defence. Only a faction of the parliamentary party, which has never accepted his leadership, wants this coup. There are therefore only two ways in which a leadership election would not be won by Corbyn in these circumstances. Either, the plotters manage to somehow circumvent a new election, or, Labour MPs ensure that Corbyn is not on the ballot — after Collins Review reforms, he needs 15% of Labour MPs to nominate him. Both outcomes would be such a gross affront to the party's democracy that it is difficult to see how they could carry it off. This is clearly a scorched earth strategy, intended to destroy Labour’s electoral chances in the likely event that there is a snap election, by sinking it into a deadly internal battle.

This is not the first time that members of the Labour Right have gone out of their way to sabotage their own party. There were those, like John Mann MP, who tried to get the leadership election cancelled when it was clear that Corbyn might win it. There were others, like Blair’s former speechwriter Peter Hyman, who spoke openly of splitting to form a new SDP when he did win. Even talking like this betrayed a certain panic: one doesn’t, in the context of the Labour Party, lightly invoke the failed experiment that according to party folk memory handed the Tories three election victories....

mark_alfred wrote:

epaulo13 wrote:

They Want Their Party Back

quote:

Both outcomes would be such a gross affront to the party's democracy that it is difficult to see how they could carry it off. This is clearly a scorched earth strategy, intended to destroy Labour’s electoral chances in the likely event that there is a snap election, by sinking it into a deadly internal battle.

Um, why do you have a link to "apple.com" in this post?  Specifically, the link anchor "Both outcomes would be such a gross affront to the party's democracy that it is difficult to see how they could carry it off," ends up being a link to apple.com.  What's with that?  Are these Blairites also Apple users? 

..txs mark_a. i have no idea how that link got there and i don't own anything apple. went back to the original article and that link is below now. changed it in my original post.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/26/coup-corbyn-brexit...

Mr. Magoo wrote:

I'm not asking about those who did vote, I'm asking about those who didn't.

Wouldn't you love to be able to auction off those nonexistent votes at $1 per.

Sadly we can't, so they can be claimed by anyone who thinks they are the ones who would have voted for Scottish separation, or voted against Stephen Harper, or for another season of Firefly.

Or whatever the hell you want to make up about what they obviously really wanted.

(not directed at you, Magoo. I have read this line about three times today in different forums).

But the ones who did vote. That's a real number. Sorry principled  anti-voters who turn around and try to claim imaginary votes.

Or just have the freedom to move around. Geez if they had wanted to leave the UK Thatcher did that by trashing plenty of caravans.

As was mentioned upthread, think about the prospect of being stuck in your province by some stupid plebescite. I'd be pissed off.

Quote:

Sadly we can't, so they can be claimed by anyone who thinks they are the ones who would have voted for Scottish separation, or voted against Stephen Harper, or for another season of Firefly.

I'm totally not suggesting that by not voting, they in fact voted for something.  I'm suggesting that by not voting, they in fact didn't vote against something.

The upshot of this being that I don't think anyone should feel compelled to "think of the millenials... they'll have to live with this longer than gran-gran will!!!".

And for whatever it's worth, I can identify.  As a Torontonian, I woke up one day to Mayor Rob Ford.  Fucking Democracy, eh?

True, but the only reason why the percentage numbers for ages is relevant is that it showed how those who voted felt. And given that there was a relationship based on age, I think that is significant.

I have no idea if whether more had come out they would have changed the outcome. But I do think the percentages are a valid indicator of how people of that age group felt.

..another paul mason piece. i found his reporting on greece when syriza took power until after the referendum excellent.

Corbyn delivered the Labour vote for remain – so let’s get behind him

We’re living through a massive, complex and historic moment. Brexit signals, at the very least, the high watermark of globalisation. I didn’t vote for it and I don’t relish dealing with it.

But this is not Labour’s defeat. We did not call the referendum; even those who chose to take part in the government-led campaign were not its leaders. This is the Tories’ catastrophe.

Analysis of the polling shows that Labour persuaded two-thirds of its supporters to vote remain. I think that is an achievement. And in part it is an achievement for Jeremy Corbyn and the shadow chancellor John McDonnell. Without the “remain and reform” demand they put forward, I think even more of our own people would have voted out.

The Tories are in turmoil. There is a swing of former no voters in Scotland towards independence. The constitutional crisis means Labour MPs will be required to act as parliamentarians first, party members second in the next days.

Our party activists on the ground need to start getting ready for a general election; reassuring migrant communities; facing down the wave of racism that’s been triggered. Labour’s party conference needs to be re-engineered so we can discuss party policy for the post-EU situation...

Just a short video showing some of the reaction to the Brexit vote: https://youtu.be/KbfqxUpJdF0

I don't think the UK will be leaving the EC
The Cons have just snookered the Brits, may never evoke clause 50, and if they don't, they remain, and the Cons will be treated like heroes for keeping the UK in the EC before this is all over
So much for leaving the EC as it is probably not gonna happen

iyraste1313 wrote:

The Tories are in turmoil. There is a swing of former no voters in Scotland towards independence......

... a vote for independence or just such a threat is collapsing the banks...UK is toast without its oil!

I am sure the bankers will be well looked after.......

...suicide is more likely....the people will not tolerate public support, nor could they what with debt skyrocketing since the last crisis.

The financial parasites had their chance to reform themselves...they chose not to! They are toast!

The people will tolerate whatever happens because no one is offering anything else. Look what the people of Greece have "tolerated" to remain a member of the EU.

Of course the elites want Britain to remain in the EU, but at the end of the day the following won't change:

The vast and growing gap between rich and poor has been laid bare in a new Oxfam report showing that the 62 richest billionaires own as much wealth as the poorer half of the world’s population.

Timed to coincide with this week’s gathering of many of the super-rich at the annual World Economic Forum in Davos, the report calls for urgent action to deal with a trend showing that 1% of people own more wealth than the other 99% combined.

Oxfam said that the wealth of the poorest 50% dropped by 41% between 2010 and 2015, despite an increase in the global population of 400m. In the same period, the wealth of the richest 62 people increased by $500bn (£350bn) to $1.76tn.

The charity said that, in 2010, the 388 richest people owned the same wealth as the poorest 50%. This dropped to 80 in 2014 before falling again in 2015.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/18/richest-62-billionaires...

The oligarchs might prefer the EU remain as one, or maybe they don't care one way or another. These people are like the royal families of old. They protect each other first and foremost. They all own property in every country worth owning property in. Even if the zeroes at the end of their net worth shift negatively it doesn't matter. They can ride out a century of upheaval. Their wealth is dynastic.

The problem is not one that can be addressed or solved electorally, at least not yet.

The French Revolution happened because the rabble were given the right target for their fury. The rabble had no idea or what would come next and they didn't need to. They just knew who was screwing them over. Once the royals were gotten out of the way there were plenty of people who knew "what next". 

I'm paraphrasing and that is always a risk, but you often suggest that people need to be looking for alternatives, solutions for when this global crash happens. Lots of people are already doing that in a multitude of ways.There is no shortage of alternative ways to survive. People are creating everything from local and global currencies to free software to growing food in urban areas. Collapse isn't the danger. Just the opposite. The danger is that leaders will do just enough to keep the masses passive or fearful.

Perhaps a splash of cold water in their faces is what they need .

And this:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/28/campaign-bigotry-r...

Quote:

Once it becomes clear Gove and Johnson will not get the immigration deal they fantasised about, millions of Britons will rightly feel cheated. And in former Labour strongholds across the north and Wales, the effective opposition will pass to Farage and his band of Westminster discards, monomaniacs and out-and-out racists.

Having created this much of a mess, British politics will be looking hard for people on whom to pin some blame. However much I hope otherwise, I suspect that the past few days are just the precursor to even greater nastiness. The leave politicians have, as Mughal says, “opened up a Pandora’s box” of resentment and suspicion. The consequences won’t be faced by old Etonians or stripy-blazered Ukippers. They’ll descend on a grandad heading home from Friday prayers, or a Romanian mum caught on a bus speaking her mother tongue.

A vote for Brexit is a vote for democracy.  One's voice is roughly 11 times more powerful among a population of 65 million than 745 million.

epaulo13 wrote:

jjuares wrote:

epaulo13 wrote:

2008 All Over Again

By Chris Hedges

Great Britain’s decision to leave the European Union has wiped out many bankers and global speculators. They will turn, as they did in 2008, to governments to rescue them from default. Most governments, including ours, will probably comply.

Will the American public passively permit another massive bailout of the banks? Will it accept more punishing programs of austerity to pay for this bailout? Will a viable socialism rise out of the economic chaos to halt further looting of the U.S. Treasury and the continued reconfiguration of the economy into neofeudalism? Or will a right-wing populism, with heavy undertones of fascism, ascend to power because of a failure on the part of the left to defend a population once again betrayed?

Whatever happens next will be chaotic. Global financial markets, which lost heavily on derivatives, are already in free fall. The value of the British pound has dropped by over 9 percent and British bank stock prices by over 25 percent. This decline has wiped out the net worth of many Wall Street brokerage houses and banks, leaving them with negative equity. The Brexit vote severely cripples and perhaps kills the eurozone and, happily, stymies trade agreements such as the Trans-Pacific Partnership. It throws the viability of NATO and American imperial designs in Eastern Europe and the Middle East into question. The British public’s repudiation of neoliberal economics also has the potential to upend the presidential elections. The Democratic Party will orchestrate a rescue of Wall Street if there is a call for a bailout. Donald Trump and the Republicans, by opposing a bailout, can ride popular revulsion to power....

I am sure the bankers will be well looked after. Meanwhile everything in Britain will be more than expensive due to the falling pound. Millions around the globe will see their pensions, RSP's take a hit. As always, in the end the poor will pay.

..sad to say that yes the poor will pay. as they were doing before the brexit vote thanks to the eu austerity policies. the ramifications of 2008 are ongoing. pensions were also hit in greece, spain, portugal, italy, ireland and france. and i'm sure i missed other places.

eta:

..in 2007-2008 i spent 8 mon in europe. 3 in marseille and 4 mon in spain. spain was being gouged in the housing market. prices were skyrocketing and there was a housing crisis. plus a shit load of other crisis. in france i joined a march of 100,000 or more others. one of those issues was reduced pensions. fighting is all we have left. the crisis is deep. there are no electoral victories to be had unless we get together and make it happen. that means joining with others. joining the struggles that already exist all around us. to me this is the priority.

I think that all that will bring is more of the same. Just as in the French Revolution, or the fight for US independence, rulers must be overthrown for the system to change. Living in a democracy that can be done but not by fighting side battles. To win we have to unite against the one battle that unites us all. Until that happens we will win battles but never the war.

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Perhaps a splash of cold water in their faces is what they need .

And this:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/28/campaign-bigotry-r...

Quote:

Once it becomes clear Gove and Johnson will not get the immigration deal they fantasised about, millions of Britons will rightly feel cheated. And in former Labour strongholds across the north and Wales, the effective opposition will pass to Farage and his band of Westminster discards, monomaniacs and out-and-out racists.

Having created this much of a mess, British politics will be looking hard for people on whom to pin some blame. However much I hope otherwise, I suspect that the past few days are just the precursor to even greater nastiness. The leave politicians have, as Mughal says, “opened up a Pandora’s box” of resentment and suspicion. The consequences won’t be faced by old Etonians or stripy-blazered Ukippers. They’ll descend on a grandad heading home from Friday prayers, or a Romanian mum caught on a bus speaking her mother tongue.

Racism is fed by neoliberalism as the working class and the poor look for a reason for their impoverishment. That racism is then used to discredit any opposition to neoliberalism. Give them the real reason for their impoverishment and they won't need to look for one.

Hey Magoo, I heard an even better movie reference on FB this morning:

the moment in The Producers when they realize Springtime for Hitler is a hit.

And Pondering, speaking of showing them the real reason for their problems, Ernst Thaelmann thought he could pull that one off and convert the SA to the cause. Didn't turn out so well. Though he had 11 years to think about it before they shot him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Th%C3%A4lmann

Little evidence of Regrexit.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/brexit-voters-regrexit_us_57726eafe4b0f168323ad632 

Your links are busted Josh. Try leaving a space at the end of the addresses.

Found it. Thing it, it doesn't need to be most. It just needs to be two percent.

Health Minister considering running for PM with 2nd vote as his platform

Corbyn isn't destroying the Labour Party, the PLP is.  And if you really want to destroy the Labour party, succeede in overthrowing Corbyn, and you'll see his supporters go to the Greens or form a new party.

Frankly, given Blairism and the party's support for the Iraq War, it shoiuld have been destroyed a long time ago.

Brexit is one more example of the older generation financially bankrupting the young

Generous pensions are no longer sustainable. They should be cut now and the resources spent on enhancing economic opportunities for the young – particularly the under-30s, who suffered under the financial crash, and will continue to struggle after Brexit

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-eu-referendum-financial-econo...

NorthReport wrote:

Brexit is one more example of the older generation financially bankrupting the young

Generous pensions are no longer sustainable. They should be cut now and the resources spent on enhancing economic opportunities for the young – particularly the under-30s, who suffered under the financial crash, and will continue to struggle after Brexit

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-eu-referendum-financial-econo...

Wow.  Cut pensions?  Exhibit A of why Brexit is needed

Quote:

Finally, after months and months in which centrist politicians and pundits derided Corbyn as an unelectable disaster, his radicalism as electoral poison, and after Remain tried to keep their campaign as Tory as possible, there came a plea for him to come along and rescue it by injecting some radical ideas into it. And notwithstanding the gasps of professed outrage from the Labour Right at Corbyn’s performance, and the extraordinarily opportunistic calls for his head after the outcome, led by the ghastly Margaret Hodge — who, recall, had to be rescued from a BNP surge that her own anti-migrant bluster had helped create — Corbyn did the best he could in this scenario by offering a conditional, critical defence of Remain. Had he joined in the ra-ra cheerleading for the EU, had he not prefaced his support with some serious criticisms, Labour would be looking at a bleak scenario in these mid-to-north England areas which have gone Brexit. By at least sounding critical, and above all keeping his distance from the Tories, he has probably avoided a Scottish outcome for the party in these areas.

But Corbyn was also not the dynamic factor in this referendum. Nor was any part of the Left. The racists were. The chauvinists were. And what the racists have done is successfully articulated a broad antiestablishment sentiment — originating in class injuries, regional decline, postindustrial devastation, generational anxieties, etc. — along bigoted, national chauvinist lines. The vote cannot be reduced to racism and nationalism — but that is the primary way in which it has been organised and recruited and directed, and that is the primary way in which the outcome will be experienced. That this was achieved so soon after the fascist murder of a centre-left, pro-immigrant MP, is stunning in a way. It says something about the truculence of some of the chauvinism on display. It says something about the profound sense of loss which a reasserted ‘Britishness’ is supposed to compensate for. This is what many of the left-Brexiters have simply failed to appreciate. In refusing to see that resentful, racist nationalism was indispensable to the Brexit victory, in imagining that the flag-waving and conspiracy theories about the EU are superfluous relative to the ‘class anger’ about neoliberalism and declining living standards, they have adopted an exceptionally crude model of ‘consciousness’. Implicitly, it is as if they see racism as merely a flimsy superstructure, or a temporary fug obscuring the ‘real’ antagonism. As if the questions of nationality and race have not been decisively formative of the way in which class issues are settled in the United Kingdom.

[url=http://salvage.zone/online-exclusive/union-jacks-flutter-over-a-widening... Jacks Flutter Over a Widening Gyre[/url]

That looks interesting and I'll read it through later. I was thinking of Seymour as being a member of the highly-discredited SWP, but he left it and blogged at length about its shortcomings in terms of internal democracy, gross misbehaviour (and not only the rape) and manipulation.

To this quote from an Independent piece:

Generous pensions are no longer sustainable. They should be cut now and the resources spent on enhancing economic opportunities for the young – particularly the under-30s, who suffered under the financial crash, and will continue to struggle after Brexit

No. Decent pensions are an important conquest of working-class struggles, and the young will one day be old. There are extremely wealthy elderly people sitting on a pile of money in huge, empty houses (Trump and Farage come to mind) but the pensions won by workers are certainly sustainable if only the .001% were taxed properly.