NDP leadership race 2

Presumably DiNovo intends to be official now.  She also intends to be the flag-bearer of the NDP's left.  So, we'll see if a flag-bearer of the NDP's pragmatic side comes along to challenge her.  So far Cullen, who tends toward the pragmatic side, has opted out.  Thus, at the moment, only the left idealist side has a candidate running.

..i am thinking that the words pragmatic and idealist don't describe the core issues we face. a more illuminating description would capitalist vs anti capitalist where some believe that capitalism can be reformed while others see the need to transform away from it.

I should note that I speak only for myself, and not the NDP.  And I stand by my assertion that uniting supporters in large urban areas with supporters in smaller more blue collar places like Hamilton or Windsor will be a challenge for the next leader.  Obviously Mulcair failed to keep supporters in the large urban areas happy enough last time.  The goal is to keep both groups happy.

mark_alfred wrote:

Obviously Mulcair failed to keep supporters in the large urban areas happy enough last time.  The goal is to keep both groups happy.

Well, I live in Hamilton Centre, and Mulcair's campaign didn't exactly set this place on fire, either. In 2011, Dave Christopherson got 57% of the votes, but in 2015 he dropped to 45.6%. The Liberal candidate in 2011, Anne Tennier, finished a poor third, at 14.1%, but in 2015 she was second, with 33.4%. Just to the east of here, Wayne Marston lost his seat to the Liberals. The next leader will have to do better here as well.

epaulo13 wrote:

Unionist wrote:

epaulo13 wrote:

..i am thinking that the words pragmatic and idealist don't describe the core issues we face. a more illuminating description would capitalist vs anti capitalist where some believe that capitalism can be reformed while others see the need to transform away from it.

That's a discussion that was banned within the NDP in the 1970s - which is when I quit the NDY. You think it can be revived? In my lifetime? Not so sure.

..the ndp is split/splitting. i believe that the struggle with capital is intensifying and that folks are demanding a more militant position from the ndp. this is why the leap was raised at their last convention and this is why the leap was born in the first place. in bc we can see the ndp taking stronger positions with the rejection of the kinder morgan pipeline being the latest. it is more likely that energy east will be rejected by the federal ndp as well. what choice have they with all those folks in que and elsewhere opposing it? the notley position can not will not hold. you can't discuss the leap without talking about transitioning from capitalism.

..how do you see this unionist? do you think my position is incorrect?

edit

I agree that activists on the left are demading a more 'militant' position from the NDP, but I don't know about any other 'folks'. Do you have examples of who these folks are? 

As for Notley, if her position "does not hold", she will be defeated in the next election and replaced by the Conservatives, Wildrose, or a newly-united rightwing party in Alberta. In that case, I suspect we will be transitioning to a more fossil fuel-intensive, environmentally-destructive form of capitalism than anything Notley could conjure up.

I think we're going to have to review thye LM with a fine-tooth comb and figure out how to implement some, hopefully many, of its provisions in a way that doesn't send voters scurrying to the right out of a fear of radical change. We have our work cut out for us.

Geoff wrote:

epaulo13 wrote:

Unionist wrote:

epaulo13 wrote:

txs geoff

..i am thinking that the words pragmatic and idealist don't describe the core issues we face. a more illuminating description would capitalist vs anti capitalist where some believe that capitalism can be reformed while others see the need to transform away from it.

That's a discussion that was banned within the NDP in the 1970s - which is when I quit the NDY. You think it can be revived? In my lifetime? Not so sure.

..the ndp is split/splitting. i believe that the struggle with capital is intensifying and that folks are demanding a more militant position from the ndp. this is why the leap was raised at their last convention and this is why the leap was born in the first place. in bc we can see the ndp taking stronger positions with the rejection of the kinder morgan pipeline being the latest. it is more likely that energy east will be rejected by the federal ndp as well. what choice have they with all those folks in que and elsewhere opposing it? the notley position can not will not hold. you can't discuss the leap without talking about transitioning from capitalism.

..how do you see this unionist? do you think my position is incorrect?

edit

I agree that activists on the left are demading a more 'militant' position from the NDP, but I don't know about any other 'folks'. Do you have examples of who these folks are? 

As for Notley, if her position "does not hold", she will be defeated in the next election and replaced by the Conservatives, Wildrose, or a newly-united rightwing party in Alberta. In that case, I suspect we will be transitioning to a more fossil fuel-intensive, environmentally-destructive form of capitalism than anything Notley could conjure up.

I think we're going to have to review thye LM with a fine-tooth comb and figure out how to implement some, hopefully many, of its provisions in a way that doesn't send voters scurrying to the right out of a fear of radical change. We have our work cut out for us.

..not just left activist but all sorts of folks are demanding it. climate is everyone’s concern as are pipelines and tankers on in bc. other folks are first are first nations, practically whole the south coast and islands don’t want any part of that. not all but most. same with the northern and central coasts as well. there was a vote in kitimat that went against the pipeline.

..and here in manitoba folks don’t want it. polls have said so. and when the federal environment minister who is also the climate minister had her town hall meeting a couple weeks ago more than 300 people attended. and when some asked from the floor who opposes energy east almost everyone in the room stood up. once people saw this they started to cheer and hoot. this was a strong message to the feds. and there are folks opposed in ontario and the town hall meetings there were the similar to what happened in wpg. there is opposition on the east coast as well.

edit.. after reading aris post i see i misread this part. so to address your point the notley position is not a healthy ndp position. expanding the tarsands and building pipelines can't be the the only way to getting elected.

..study yes by all means. but there is also a need for action..today. the implementation undrip for example needs to be addressed and it’s relationship to the tar sands and pipelines..today.  and yes i agree we all have our work cut out. 

..i believe with a bold, committed position the ndp can change the conversation. plot a different path.

CLIMATE/JUSTICE A Climate Plan that Works for Workers

quote:

By tackling inequity and creating good, unionized jobs, a climate strategy could represent a giant leap forward for the labour movement — but only if we force politicians to act.

ONE MILLION GOOD JOBS

A national climate strategy holds incredible potential for the labour movement. That's why the Canadian Labour Congress teamed up with a number of environmental organizations and First Nations to deliver a proposal to the prime minister in advance of the Vancouver meeting. The proposal, called "One Million Climate Jobs," presents a plan to address poverty and tackle climate change by creating jobs.

The latter.  I am sure polling would confirm my opinion.

Caissa wrote:

The latter.  I am sure polling would confirm my opinion.

Well, aren't there people who live along the proposed route of the pipeline who are worried about spills ruining their environment, similar to people in Quebec, Ontario and Manitoba? Are these only a small percentage of the population, and most aren't concerned about damage from spills?

..and this is one of the things, if i was in the ndp member, i would be looking at in choosing a leader.

Northern Gateway Decision a Huge Victory for First Nations' Rights

It is a great day for the Haida, Haisla, Gitxaala, Gitga'at, Kitasoo Xai'xais, Heiltsuk, Nadleh Whut'en and Nak'azdli Whut'en Nations as they celebrate the Federal Court of Appeal decision to quash cabinet approval for Enbridge's Northern Gateway project.

The authority to build Northern Gateway no longer exists. I am sure those First Nations communities are celebrating, singing and dancing and rejoicing that their lands, waters and resources will remain intact for the next little while, with great hope that it will be forever. Northern Gateway project is on hold for now.

Why did the court quash the federal cabinet authorization for Northern Gateway's pipeline project? Simply put, the First Nations were not properly consulted. This is what they have been saying all along, and now the Federal Court of Appeal has agreed with them.

Does the quashing of cabinet's decision send chills down developers' spines? It should. It signals that the government did not do its job when it consulted with First Nations. It shows that the cabinet did not do its job by determining whether consultation had been carried out properly before approving the project. It also tells developers that although they don't have the duty to consult, the more they do to meet First Nations' concerns, the better off they will be when governments don't fulfill their duties....

mark_alfred wrote:

Given that many people's retirement no longer is RRSPs or savings or a pension, but rather their entire life savings is wrapped up solely in home ownership, not having prices go down becomes important to many.

It seems to me that this, itself, is the problem. Housing is ludicrously unaffordable in Canada, and the hollowing-out of pensions and so forth has led to the situation where people use a home as a savings account. So under those circumstances, anything a left-wing government does to bring prices down -- like, say, investing in the construction of public housing -- would be an "attack" on those homeowners who were counting on their house prices remaining sky-high. A national affordable housing strategy would make it possible for people going forward to put a little more away for retirement, but it'd be rough on current owners. So should that handicap any future social housing programs? No.

mark_alfred wrote:

Anything that threatens or even hints at a possible crash in the housing market (IE, more restrictive trade policies or whatever) will not be a vote getter unless the proffered policies address this fear directly, I feel.  Greater pension reform may alleviate these worries.

I think either the prices keep going up or there's a correction.  I don't see how we get to stasis at current prices.

dan2000 wrote:

I don't think a policy that would lower housing prices is decidedly "anti-home owner". Decreased housing prices detrimentally affect those who are speculating. If prices decrease, some homeowners will be in favour of it as it would decrease their property tax increases. There have been stories in Vancouver already where seniors on pensions risk losing their homes because of unaffordable property taxes. 

A full crash is unlikely, but something must be done to control the outrageous house prices - especially in Vancouver and Toronto. 

I agree. A market correction only affects the small number of people who want to sell soon. Even amongst them the prices have risen so steeply that only speculators would be hurt. Anyone else who has had a house for a few years would merely see the possibility of windfall profits erased. Vancouver and Toronto will never drop enough to bother the majority of homeowners.

Our governments need to get back into the coop housing sector while putting in policies that will make renting the now vacant houses a much more favourable option. A high tax on any house left for more than a couple of months might have some effect.

SeekingAPoliticalHome wrote:

Lots look at Vancouver, prices are rising are going up at 35 percent a year.  Prices are going up in Toronto around 15% a year.  Now since the toronto is getting crazy and craziness is spreading outside the GTA.  People has been priced out to the TO and now bubble is created outside toronto as well as people leave TO and start bidding wars outside the toronto.  For those that claim there is no bubble, in canada we have maybe 2 % wage growth on average but less if you look at the median wage.  How are people with 2% wage growth going to support a housing market that is growing lets be generous at 9% overall.  Seriously if someone can up with the answer I ready to be schooled. Thats why a crush or correction is coming, sadly you cannot change the math. 

As for some sort of government rescue, think again we live in capitalism you can have free market with associated crash.  Or you can have some sort rational system with a command economy without the bubble.  Since we have accepted the market then this will be resolved by the market.  The only thing thing the policy markers can do is pierce the bubble now or let it continue to its speculator failure.  Both will be extremely painful.  These are the mechanics of the capitialist system. 

Yes, this will only end in tears. There will be, almost literally, "blood in the streets" when a bubble like this bursts. People will commit suicide over their losses, and worse.

In Vancouver, the median income has actually been going down for decades. Many people, whether they realize it or not, are trying to use real estate and debt to make up for this. Once the bubble pops in Vancouver, the local economy will collapse. You'd have to live here to appreciate how much spending and how many jobs are dependent on the real estate market and rising debt.

I just hope the NDP treads carefully wth this and doesn't get blamed for it. Part of me dreads this happening in the early days of a BC NDP government. Hopefully, we'd take some notes from Notley on governing during a crisis.

The thing that will destroy working class families trying to buy a home is the same thing as happened in the early 1980's, rising interest rates. Our mortgage rates have been at historic lows for a decade. I saw many friends lose their homes when they had to remortgage because the rates had doubled. If the rates go back to the historic levels of 6% to 7% many people will lose everything. It was the doubling from 9% to 18% that did it last time but going from 3.5% to 7% will have the same effect of doubling the interest charges.

mark_alfred wrote:

Cheri DiNovo has announced her intention to be an official candidate.  She intends to fundraise the entry fee and get the signatures required to enter.  I'm unaware of anyone else at the moment.  I don't anticipate any announcements during the summer.

After making such a big deal out of opposing candidate fees, why would anyone give this character one penny when she changes her mind?

She should apologize for her condemnation of pro-Palestinian rights activists in Ontario. Until she does that, she should be ignored, or condemned, as the case may be.

And she should also make up her mind as to what "principles" she upholds, trying hard to remain consistent from one day to the next.

Want to destroy the NDP? Support Ms. DiNovo!

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Caissa wrote:

The latter.  I am sure polling would confirm my opinion.

Well, aren't there people who live along the proposed route of the pipeline who are worried about spills ruining their environment, similar to people in Quebec, Ontario and Manitoba? Are these only a small percentage of the population, and most aren't concerned about damage from spills?

why aren't people concerned over the environmental damage of roundup? they should be more worried about it imv than pipeline spills.

here in Transmountain country people, currently, have absolutely no fear of environmental damage from pipelines. they've lived for 50+ years with no spills to speak of from the current pipeline. the pipeline route areas are favoured outdoor spots and look fabulous. tourists would never know they were there. the terror of tanker trains full of bitumen going through is the only fear and we are fighting to get speeds down if not tanker car numbers down or even spread out more throughout the train.

imv, the damage from either a spill or a derailment would be relevant to; where it occured, weather and population. this area is headwaters to the 2 largest river sytems in BC and north western USA. well to those going into AB and SK too.  the AthaB and the NSK rivers start in the watersheds containing the Transmountain pipeline route and the CN tanker rail route.

Quote:

They'll wait until the fall, and then some serious contenders will begin to emerge.

Yes.  It's nature's way.

Right now they're still in the larval stage -- mostly eating, and pooping, and trying not to get eaten by birds.  But soon they'll knit themselves into a glorious chrysalis made of their own saliva, to wait and grow until they can emerge as a fabulous and wonderful butterly.

Then, of course, they'll engage in ritual rutting battle, banging horns together until only one survives -- the Alpha NDP Candidate, or "silverback", ready lto breed with the females and lead the left to better foraging grounds until another rises up to take its place.

Please read the above in David Attenborough's voice.

Also, the Alpha NDP Candidate may wish to breed with the males rather than the females (or with both).

mark_alfred wrote:

Of course, the whole pragmatic vs. idealist sides is something that needs to be addressed.  Both Layton and Mulcair attempted this.  Layton ran on relatively subdued policies, but talked a good idealist game.  Mulcair ran on more idealist policies than Layton but talked a more reserved pragmatic approach.  The challenge is to appease both the working class in smaller labour towns like Hamilton or Windsor while also appeasing the fanboys and fangals of the Klein/Lewis espresso crew within the larger urban centres of Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver.  The risk in trying to appease the kinda fickle and judgemental latter group is that you may fail to gain with them while simultaneously blowing your support with the working class group in the smaller labour towns as well.

That is only if you surrender to the neoliberal model because that is a plan for electoral success not a plan to defeat corporate influence and restore democracy. Even "The Leap" misses the mark because it jumps to solutions without tackling the core problem.

While we wait for more leadership contestants to enter, the NDP has been doing some good work in Parliament in the interim.

http://www.ndp.ca/top-10-ways-ndp-put-canadians-first

Quote:

During this first session of Parliament, the NDP has shown it is the only party Canadians can trust to fight for fairness and stand up for them.

1. Pay equity: The NDP succeeded in getting Parliament to recognize pay equity as a human right and the governments’ agreement to introduce pay equity legislation.
2. Democratic reform: When talks to fix our electoral system were going nowhere, the NDP secured a fair process that represents all parties - giving every Canadian a voice at the table.
3. Hard-hit workers:  The NDP helped pressure the government to extend EI benefits to Canadians in hard-hit regions in Western Canada.
4. First Nations: The NDP successfully secured new investment in mental health services for First Nations communities and continued to champion the call of First Nation youth for government action.
5. Charter rights: When the law on assisted dying was deemed unconstitutional by experts and courts across Canada, the NDP proposed clear solutions to fix it and protect Canadians’ rights.
6. Good jobs: When the Liberals moved to allow the outsourcing of aerospace jobs by Air Canada, the NDP fought hard to keep good jobs in Winnipeg, Toronto and Montreal.
7. Dairy farmers: The NDP fought for dairy producers by pushing to ban the unfair use of imported American milk proteins that cost Canadian farmers over $200 million a year.
8. Marijuana: While the Liberals drag their feet on marijuana legalization, the NDP pushed to immediately decriminalize pot so that no Canadian is ever again burdened with a criminal record for personal use.
9. Tax evasion: With revelations of widespread abuse of tax havens, the NDP put hardworking Canadians ahead of the wealthy and well-connected by spearheading parliamentary hearings and pushing for a public inquiry.
10. Environment: New Democrats continue to demand Liberals keep their promise to fix environmental assessments so that Canadians can be heard, their concerns addressed and communities protected.

BONUS:

1. Trade: The NDP continues to oppose bad trade deals like the TPP that hurt Canadian jobs and innovation while selling out our healthcare, cultural industry and environment.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:

They'll wait until the fall, and then some serious contenders will begin to emerge.

Yes.  It's nature's way.

Right now they're still in the larval stage -- mostly eating, and pooping, and trying not to get eaten by birds.  But soon they'll knit themselves into a glorious chrysalis made of their own saliva, to wait and grow until they can emerge as a fabulous and wonderful butterly.

Then, of course, they'll engage in ritual rutting battle, banging horns together until only one survives -- the Alpha NDP Candidate, or "silverback", ready to breed with the females and lead the left to better foraging grounds until another rises up to take its place.

Please read the above in David Attenborough's voice.

Put that one in the hall of fame. 

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/federal-court-spikes-appeal-by-secretive-...

Quote:

The Federal Court has spiked an appeal by a secretive all party committee, the attorney general and the Commons Speaker that sought to keep an affidavit out of the court hearing.

The affidavit, penned by a professor at the University of Sherbrooke, asserts that funding for satellite offices is not a matter of parliamentary privilege -- a key question at the heart of whether courts have jurisdiction in the dispute.

Good news.  Evidence in favour of the NDP is allowed in the case.

I haven't heard. 

Yes.  Perpetual self-criticism is a sure fire winning strategy of the left.