The idea of willfully creating another entity to capture different parts of the market I don't think has happened elsewhere in PR run democracies. IE, like Pepsi taking over and marketing both 7-Up and Mountain Dew to counter Coke taking over and marketing Sprite (not to mention Pepsi taking over Tropicana juices to counter Coke having Minute Maid juices). Then maybe Pepsi could win majority market share with the combined sales of Tropicana, 7-Up, Mountain Dew, and of course Pepsi to counter Coke. So, perhaps the Conservatives will come up with or take over current existing parties (IE, take over Progressive Canada Party, Libertarian Party, Christian Heritage Party and have them as brands to the umbrella Con party) to increase their overall market share in a PR system. Yeah, I just don't see it happening. I believe they would find it easier to simply work on rejigging their main brand rather than wasting resources on creating or taking over smaller brands and trying to build them up. Plus supporting a party that's supposed to be a competitor is likely against some rule somewhere.
Sorry you have this backwards. They were two parties. They are uncomfortable together but reconfigured ONLY due to FPTP. That was exactly what the merger was all about. The only good argument for the merger was -- while we don't like each other we are dead in the water due to vote splitting under FPTP.
And absolutely they have been held together by the threat of FPTP. Remove FPTP and there is no force keeping them together. The fact that they would do better as two parties under PR is a bonus. They would be two parties even if they could only break even.
I see. You're saying they would split and go back to Reform and Progressive Conservative. I did say that the right-wingers of the Conservatives may get upset and leave the Cons and create a more populist Wild Rose type party. So I agree with you there. I don't see the red tories of the Conservatives splitting off and forming another fiscal conservative social liberal party though. That field is just too crowded with the current Liberal Party, and the Cons, for that matter. The Conservatives had power for ten years, and yet abortion remained decriminalized and gay marriage remained legal despite their majority (IE, they didn't overturn the Civil Marriages Act and use the notwithstanding clause to overcome any Charter challenges). So if anyone would be more likely to be upset with the Conservatives, it would be their social conservative wing, and not their red tory wing.
I see. You're saying they would split and go back to Reform and Progressive Conservative. I did say that the right-wingers of the Conservatives may get upset and leave the Cons and create a more populist Wild Rose type party. So I agree with you there. I don't see the red tories of the Conservatives splitting off and forming another fiscal conservative social liberal party though. That field is just too crowded with the current Liberal Party, and the Cons, for that matter. The Conservatives had power for ten years, and yet abortion remained decriminalized and gay marriage remained legal despite their majority (IE, they didn't overturn the Civil Marriages Act and use the notwithstanding clause to overcome any Charter challenges). So if anyone would be more likely to be upset with the Conservatives, it would be their social conservative wing, and not their red tory wing.
What I am thinking is that the membership may choose a slightly more progressive leader and if that happens the reform wing would live with it only if FPTP is in place but otherwise they would break off and go alone. There are a number of policies the more social conservatives and even some of the more fiscal conservatives have reasons to be unhappy. Add to this the dynamic of some right wing Candidates who likely would have a leadership career who otherwise would not ahve one and you have a dynamic that leads this way.
The whole thing starts with tensions and a realization if FPTP is gone that the hammer of keeping together is gone and they could even have a better shot apart.
To openly call for the death of a prime minister goes way beyond venting. And for the Conservative party to play host on its Facebook page to an accumulation of such comments is astounding.
But crying on TV about something you’re not actually sorry you did, and doubling down later in a grotesque questionnaire about every tiny resentment? I can’t imagine that. I’m all for Conservatives reinventing themselves into the admirable Red Tories of my youth. But the hard right of the party has cooked itself. It’s a boiled egg that went off in 2015. No one wants a leader like Leitch.
There is a possibility of a third entity which could split the right wing vote even more. As so many of the voters are credulous, they would go for it. So far I have learned you have to be meticulous about paperwork and bean counting.
Peter MacKay will not run for Conservative leadership
Sep 12, 2016
Former cabinet minister Peter MacKay says he will not run for leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada.
"After much soul searching, advice from trusted friends, and weighing of the impact on my young family, I have decided not to seek the leadership of the party," the Nova Scotia native said in a release late Monday afternoon.
"I choose not to run at this time for some of the same reasons I stated when I chose not to seek re-election last year. My family is my number one priority."
MacKay said in the release that he mulled a leadership bid over the summer months but ultimately decided to step aside to allow others to run.
"In fairness to others declared, and those in consideration, I feel it is time to decide so as not to negatively impact others," he said.
The decision comes ahead of the Conservative party's caucus retreat in Halifax this week.
Wow, Coyne uses all of his rhetorical artillery against McKay in this one. His conclusion:
Andrew Coyne wrote:
It seems unlikely that history will record this as the end of “the MacKay era.” It is difficult to speak of a MacKay legacy, or MacKayism, at least with a straight face. Indeed, it is difficult to recall much about him even now. Though not gone, he is forgotten. We shall look upon his like again.
i watched an interview with him on the week end. the one with the plane ride.
he said he's been meeting with possible contenders over the summer at his cabin, and if he doesn't like the contenders he will run himself.
Years ago I would have welcomed someone like him as a person who could not get elected. The problem is that some of the unelectable people sometimes get elected. He is extreme right wing and dangerous. Of course there are others in the race that already fit that description.
This is why (along with the likes of Leitch) these people CANNOT be given power ever again. They all should move to Texas and suck on a big,long oil well.Get the fuck out of my country!
The first sentence was the opinion expressed by Conservatives in the article. Was not stated as a fact he believes -- more ironic. Nobody here is calling the IMF left.
I think he means your country as well -- personalized because we are people. The IMF is not leftist and does not give a shit for people.
Anyway I read the comment differently than you did I think.
i watched an interview with him on the week end. the one with the plane ride.
he said he's been meeting with possible contenders over the summer at his cabin, and if he doesn't like the contenders he will run himself.
Years ago I would have welcomed someone like him as a person who could not get elected. The problem is that some of the unelectable people sometimes get elected. He is extreme right wing and dangerous. Of course there are others in the race that already fit that description.
He's not dangerous to Justin Trudeau. He's Justin's meal ticket to a second term.
i watched an interview with him on the week end. the one with the plane ride.
he said he's been meeting with possible contenders over the summer at his cabin, and if he doesn't like the contenders he will run himself.
Years ago I would have welcomed someone like him as a person who could not get elected. The problem is that some of the unelectable people sometimes get elected. He is extreme right wing and dangerous. Of course there are others in the race that already fit that description.
He's not dangerous to Justin Trudeau. He's Justin's meal ticket to a second term.
People said this about Harper. Turns out he was dangerous.
They say that about Trump. Maybe unelectable but what if he gets elected?
I recognize he is a great foil for Liberals to scare NDP voters back to them but there are no guarantees.
Sean, I don't think Harper & O'Leary are comparable.
Harper was very smart and had political experience before he became PM.
O'Leary has no experience and is not as smart as Harper.
He also speaks no French. That will be an issue in several parts of the country.
I do agree with you about Trump, though. Trump has a chance of winning the Presidency. In fact, the latest polling numbers show him going up and Hillary going down.
During the last few days haven't you noticed the new guy on all of our coins and bills? I guess it his country now.
the rhetoric is just so divisive. i'll leave the privilege of expropriating aside.
i'm no fan of the Conservatives and our community is being split along these lines. i just find "get the fuck out of my country" no different than fundamentalist christian intolerant rhetoric.
I just looked at my own hand, and it kind of looks like traditional marriage is actually a foursome, including one minor. And one slightly weird one off to the side watching.
Andrew Scheer officially running to be Conservative leader
September 28, 2016
Quote:
Regina-Qu’Appelle MP Andrew Scheer is officially in the running for the leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada.
The run was confirmed earlier this month by Postmedia and made official in an announcement by Scheer in Ottawa on Wednesday.
In a press release, Scheer said, “our members and our supporters want a Leader who has always promoted and supported our fundamental Conservative philosophies and can bring our positive message of optimism and prosperity to a broader audience.”
He also mentions how he can unite all Conservatives as they seek to form government in the 2019 election.
“I am excited about this challenge and look forward to the work ahead,” he said in the release.
A platform and further details on policy views will be made “in the coming months,” according to the release.
Twenty Conservative MPs and Senators are listed as supporters of Scheer, including a handful from Saskatchewan.
Veteran MP Lisa Raitt has announced she will join the Conservative leadership race.
Ms. Raitt declared her intentions to run for party leader in a Facebook announcement on Wednesday.
First elected in 2008, Ms. Raitt was a longtime cabinet minister in Stephen Harper’s government. She has served as natural resources minister, labour minister and transport minister, and recently stepped down as her party’s finance critic in preparation for her leadership bid. Ms. Raitt hails from Cape Breton, N.S., and represents the Toronto-area riding of Milton, Ont.
"Tonight, our American cousins threw out the elites and elected Donald Trump as the next president," she said in a message to supporters. "It's an exciting message and one that we need delivered in Canada as well."
Leitch said she's bringing the same message to her campaign to be Canada's next prime minister, and said she's the only candidate who is "standing up for Canadian values."
While Bernier’s consumer-focused libertarianism and Chong’s reform-minded conservatism are matters of public record, Leitch’s populism is palpably put-on, assembled out of whatever bits of flotsam surfaced in her campaign manager’s focus groups, from legalizing pepper spray to “dismantling” the CBC to screening immigrants for “anti-Canadian values.” For heaven’s sake, until about five minutes ago she was known as a Red Tory.
Sorry you have this backwards. They were two parties. They are uncomfortable together but reconfigured ONLY due to FPTP. That was exactly what the merger was all about. The only good argument for the merger was -- while we don't like each other we are dead in the water due to vote splitting under FPTP.
And absolutely they have been held together by the threat of FPTP. Remove FPTP and there is no force keeping them together. The fact that they would do better as two parties under PR is a bonus. They would be two parties even if they could only break even.
I see. You're saying they would split and go back to Reform and Progressive Conservative. I did say that the right-wingers of the Conservatives may get upset and leave the Cons and create a more populist Wild Rose type party. So I agree with you there. I don't see the red tories of the Conservatives splitting off and forming another fiscal conservative social liberal party though. That field is just too crowded with the current Liberal Party, and the Cons, for that matter. The Conservatives had power for ten years, and yet abortion remained decriminalized and gay marriage remained legal despite their majority (IE, they didn't overturn the Civil Marriages Act and use the notwithstanding clause to overcome any Charter challenges). So if anyone would be more likely to be upset with the Conservatives, it would be their social conservative wing, and not their red tory wing.
What I am thinking is that the membership may choose a slightly more progressive leader and if that happens the reform wing would live with it only if FPTP is in place but otherwise they would break off and go alone. There are a number of policies the more social conservatives and even some of the more fiscal conservatives have reasons to be unhappy. Add to this the dynamic of some right wing Candidates who likely would have a leadership career who otherwise would not ahve one and you have a dynamic that leads this way.
The whole thing starts with tensions and a realization if FPTP is gone that the hammer of keeping together is gone and they could even have a better shot apart.
Okay, yes, I do agree with you there. That's a distinct possibility if PR actually comes about.
Conservative party attracting unpleasant odours
Sat., Aug. 27, 2016
By Chantal Hébert
To openly call for the death of a prime minister goes way beyond venting. And for the Conservative party to play host on its Facebook page to an accumulation of such comments is astounding.
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/08/27/conservative-party-attrac...
Dr. Leitch's prescription: a Trump suppository
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/leitch-responds-survey-question-1.3746470
http://thestarphoenix.com/news/politics/kellie-leitch-barbaric-cultural-...
http://ipolitics.ca/2016/09/02/chong-accuses-leitch-of-dog-whistle-polit...
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/09/02/kellie-leitch-and-the-art...
There is a possibility of a third entity which could split the right wing vote even more. As so many of the voters are credulous, they would go for it. So far I have learned you have to be meticulous about paperwork and bean counting.
Deepak Obhrai has entered the race:
http://electdeepakobhrai.com/
Peter MacKay will not run for Conservative leadership
Sep 12, 2016
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/peter-mackay-not-running-1.3758970
[url=http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-coyne-peter-mackay-was-... Coyne's column on Canada's most over-rated politician bears repeating.[/url]
Kellie Leitch won't rule out Catholic immigration ban.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vmUidBxr2Y
Wow, Coyne uses all of his rhetorical artillery against McKay in this one. His conclusion:
That's got to sting.And it looks like Kevin O'Leary's going to run
What a circus.
i watched an interview with him on the week end. the one with the plane ride.
he said he's been meeting with possible contenders over the summer at his cabin, and if he doesn't like the contenders he will run himself.
Years ago I would have welcomed someone like him as a person who could not get elected. The problem is that some of the unelectable people sometimes get elected. He is extreme right wing and dangerous. Of course there are others in the race that already fit that description.
Apparently the IMF is mired in left wing ideology.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/conservative-leadership-hopeful-goes-afte...
What a diminutive,little,ideologue shithead.
This is why (along with the likes of Leitch) these people CANNOT be given power ever again. They all should move to Texas and suck on a big,long oil well.Get the fuck out of my country!
your country?
Oh piss off quiz. Refrain from commenting about me. Fucking troublemaking idiot.
The first sentence was the opinion expressed by Conservatives in the article. Was not stated as a fact he believes -- more ironic. Nobody here is calling the IMF left.
I think he means your country as well -- personalized because we are people. The IMF is not leftist and does not give a shit for people.
Anyway I read the comment differently than you did I think.
Thanks, Sean. You read my comment correctly.
He's not dangerous to Justin Trudeau. He's Justin's meal ticket to a second term.
People said this about Harper. Turns out he was dangerous.
They say that about Trump. Maybe unelectable but what if he gets elected?
I recognize he is a great foil for Liberals to scare NDP voters back to them but there are no guarantees.
Sean, I don't think Harper & O'Leary are comparable.
Harper was very smart and had political experience before he became PM.
O'Leary has no experience and is not as smart as Harper.
He also speaks no French. That will be an issue in several parts of the country.
I do agree with you about Trump, though. Trump has a chance of winning the Presidency. In fact, the latest polling numbers show him going up and Hillary going down.
First that schoolyard nerd Clement calls the IMF left wing,now we have this idiot.
The CPC is not a political wing of Parliament but a fringe far right insurgency whose only goal is to destroy Canada.
During the last few days haven't you noticed the new guy on all of our coins and bills? I guess it his country now.
That looks like two penises getting married
I'll leave it to others to argue this one.
The man trying to bring Republican economics to Canada.
https://ipolitics.ca/2016/09/20/leadership-candidate-bernier-calls-for-e...
Chantal Hébert says that Peter MacKay's decision not to run for leader probably benefits Maxime Bernier the most.
the rhetoric is just so divisive. i'll leave the privilege of expropriating aside.
i'm no fan of the Conservatives and our community is being split along these lines. i just find "get the fuck out of my country" no different than fundamentalist christian intolerant rhetoric.
~
sorry Sean not the way i read it and read it.
I just looked at my own hand, and it kind of looks like traditional marriage is actually a foursome, including one minor. And one slightly weird one off to the side watching.
Andrew Scheer officially running to be Conservative leader
September 28, 2016
http://leaderpost.com/news/politics/andrew-scheer-officially-running-to-...
Bernier to release the Republican, err, "Responsible" Income tax cut plan:
http://ipolitics.ca/2016/10/06/that-time-max-bernier-equated-taxes-with-...
The comment shows what a quack he is.
Problem is quacks can still be successful in politics -- unfortunately.
Steven Blaney & Andrew Saxton set to enter Conservative leadership race
October 11, 2016
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/former-cabine...
@TonyclementCPC announces he is dropping out of the Conservative leadership race. #cdnpoli #cpcldrpic.twitter.com/YnDUaAjVuC
Who?
And who???
*falls asleep*
Tony Clement has dropped out because of financial difficulties:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tony-clement-dropping-out-1.3801305
Blaney is the guy who introduced bill C-51.
Chris Alexander announces Tory leadership bid
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/chris-alexander-announces-tory-...
http://ipolitics.ca/2016/10/13/otoole-expected-to-launch-leadership-bid-...
Blaney targets veiled voting, mulls using notwithstanding clause
Blaney takes a cue from Leitch’s ‘Canadian values’ wedge issue — and drives the wedge in further
Monday, October 24th, 2016
http://ipolitics.ca/2016/10/24/blaney-would-test-immigrants-to-preserve-...
Further proof that Conservatism is a barbaric cultural practice.
Lisa Raitt to run for Conservative Party leader
Wednesday, Nov. 02, 2016
-
Full article:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/lisa-raitt-to-run-for-conse...
Kellie Leitch has become the first candidate to jump on the Trump train.
[url=http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/national/andrew+coyne+party+ideas+smal... Coyne: A party of big ideas, or small fears? Choice of direction open for Conservatives[/url]
Seems that Maxime Bernier, Steven Blaney, Chris Alexander, Andrew Scheer and Michael Chong are bilingual. The others, not so much.
Bernier on Leitch: "We don't need this karaoke version of Donald Trump" LOL.
Said the northern version of Paul Ryan.
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