Malaysian plane crash part 2

Thanks for the link, Bec. Very interesting.

Christ, who needs trolls? Bellingcat has discredited himself. He's about as reliable as the Syrian information body ... run out of a basement in  Crawley, England or some such place.

Here's a nice bit of repetition. Any of you genuises care to comment?

Quote:

...  the investigators neglected to make enquires as to why a passenger jetliner was allowed to fly over a dangerous war zone.

Wake me up when there's a coherent and credible reply.

ooh rah.

6079_Smith_W wrote:

I thought I did already, Perhaps you missed it.

Nice non reply. Next.

Quote:

..  the investigators neglected to make enquires as to why a passenger jetliner was allowed to fly over a dangerous war zone.

Let's not ask who murdered that person, let's ask instead who allowed them to walk across a dark parking lot at night.

I

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Let's not ask who murdered that person, let's ask instead who allowed them to walk across a dark parking lot at night.

And even if you were to ask that second quesiton, it wouldn't be the nation. Never mind that some are putting this down to who the magazine which reports that information sells ads to.

Beyond giving someone an excuse to ignore reality, I am not sure how it is relevant. I am sure this isn't the last time he'll resort to playing that game though.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

I'm starting to think that what we really need is a "Russophilia" thread.

http://rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/russia-3

We have such a thread, but it's bunged up with the missives of the babble chattering class. You know. You and your friends.

Unionist wrote:

Sorry, I couldn't think of anything new to say about a disaster that no one knows anything about but everyone has something to say about. I find the idle speculators on both sides of this tragedy to be equally scary. They will believe and repeat virtually anything, based solely on which saint/villain they support.

Pepe Escobar wrote:

"it is in any case the nature of these kind of attacks that makes it impossible to identify the perpetrator. In the past sixty years it happened twenty times that an airliner was shot from the air during a military action, usually by accident, by a ground-to-air-rocket or a fighter jet. In all cases things were settled outside the courtroom. Parties were bribed. Even if there was no doubt about the evidence, like in 2001, when Ukraine downed an airliner with a rocket. The political interests always prevailed over the truth. The MH17 case won’t be an exception to this."

6079_Smith_W wrote:

And really, I try not to be scary. Excuse me if my comments make you feel that way.

Your comments don't scare me. What scares me is the utter unflinching unalterable predictability of the discourse on both "sides" of this issue. 

And as if there is an equivalence in terms of how  "unflinchingly unalterable"  people here have been.

Some of us have been pretty patient actually, without resorting to Boo Rahs and the rest of that crap.

Well the report is in and that "we don't really know anything" act simply doesn't apply anymore Unionist.

You mean this comment?

Quote:

But was it the locals who took that plane down? Somehow I doubt it. And in saying that I'm not pointing the finger directly at Putin either. Am I pointing it at him in terms of his setting this situation in motion? Absolutely.

He started the damned war, Unionist. He controls the border and the army, the mercenaries, and equipment that flows across it. So yes, I blame him for setting up the circumstances for this to happen.

And while we don't know exactly who in the rebel territory brought that plane down, we have an investigation report which shows the murder weapon coming over the border from Russia, and going back a few days later.

We have quite a bit of concrete information about what happened.

And sure you can claim to know nothing and look down your nose at both sides, but you pick interesting times to step in try to muddy the waters. Like right after the report is released. And I don't see you trying to hold ikosmos to task for things which I presume you also disagree with.

The JIT didn't assign blame.

And this:

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/07/13/zaroshchenske-l...

Not content with shooting down a civilian airliner AGAIN, the brutal Banderist fascist-loving Ukrainian regime has decided to do missile tests ... over Crimea!

Who cares about the civilian aircraft? What could go wrong?

What a bunch of murderous thugs. The UN should just send in the troops and overthrow this fascist regime. And send the bill to Washington.

A "Buk" anti-aircraft battery launches a ground-to-air missile during the Ukrainian army's "Duel-99" military manoeuvres at the Chauda firing ground in the Crimean peninsula October 12, 1999

Kiev to hold missile-firing exercise over Crimea, where civil aviation performs flights - Moscow

lol.  Who's a clever fella?

well, I guess that makes firing missiles where civilian airliners fly hunky dory, eh?

C'mon. This stuff is obvious. The only reason that brutal regime is doing this stuff is because the Yanqui Obama regime is egging them on.

lol. You have a point. whoop de doo.

Do you really think it's wise - in the context of a civil war in which - literally - hundreds of people have died, shot out of the sky, plunging to a screaming, brutal death from their civilian aircraft - do you really think it's wise to carry out such "exercises" ?Do I really have to spell this shit out to you?

And, it was only recently that Ukro intelligence officers were apprehended trying to carry out terrorist attacks in the same Crimea?

wtf? Did I just fall off a turnip truck?

eta: I think you're smarter than you are letting on. This is just stupid, planning for disaster, and completely unnecessary. It's a provocation.

Really just give it up... How could the Ukrainians expect to use civilian airliners that were cruising on known routes, in straight lines, at over 30,000 feet as “shields for military air craft” most of which operate under 10,000 feet most of the time (to attack ground targets)?

The rebels weren’t supposed to have a weapon that could shot that high, remember, so there was no perceived threat to commercial aircraft that flew that high over the region.

So… now RT is saying the rebels were tricked into firing on that airliner by the Ukrainians? Wow

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17/MAS17)[a] was a scheduled passenger flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur that was shot down on 17 July 2014 while flying over eastern Ukraine, killing all 283 passengers and 15 crew on board.[2]Contact with the aircraft, a Boeing 777-200ER, was lost about 50 km (31 mi) from the Ukraine–Russia border and wreckage of the aircraft landed near Torez in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, 40 km (25 mi) from the border.[3] The crash occurred in an area controlled by the Donbass People's Militia during the Battle in Shakhtarsk Raion, part of the ongoing war in Donbass.[4] The crash is the deadliest airliner shootdown, and was Malaysia Airlines' second aircraft loss during 2014 after Flight 370 on March 8.[5]

In October 2015, the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) concluded that the airliner was downed by a Buk surface-to-air missile launched from pro-Russian separatist-controlled territory in Ukraine.[6][7] In September 2016, the Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) confirmed the missile type which had downed the aircraft and said that the Buk missile system had been transported from Russia on the day of the crash, fired from a field in a rebel controlled area and returned to Russia after the Buk was used to shoot down MH17. The JIT had established the identities of approximately 100 people, witnesses or suspects, who were linked to the transporting of the Buk, but said that their evidence "must stand before a court".[8]

The DSB and JIT findings confirmed earlier claims by American and German intelligence sources and the Ukrainian government as to the missile type and launch area. In 2014, Ukraine and US intelligence had also said that Russia had supplied the Buk missile to pro-Russian insurgents, who had mistakenly shot down the aircraft.[9][10][11][12] Also in 2014, German intelligence sources reported that they believed insurgents had stolen the missile from the Ukrainian military.[13][14][15]

Russian government sources initially claimed that the aircraft was being followed by a Ukrainian military jet at the time of the shootdown[10] and later that Ukraine was responsible since the crash had happened in Ukrainian airspace.[16]Several theories about the crash have since appeared in Russian media, and as of September 2016, the Russian government continues to deny responsibility for the crash.[8]

Immediately after the crash, a post appeared on the VKontakte social media profile attributed to Russian Colonel Igor Girkin, leader of the Donbass separatist militia, claiming responsibility for shooting down an AN-26 near Torez,[17] but later the same day the separatists denied involvement and the post was removed.[18][19][20] In late July 2014, communications intercepts were made public in which, it is claimed, separatists are heard discussing an aircraft that they had downed and later, their realisation that it was a civilian aircraft.[21][22][23]

Between November 2014 and May 2016, UK-based investigative collective Bellingcat made a series of allegations, based on their examination of photos in social media and other open-source information. Bellingcat said that the launcher used to shoot down the aircraft was a unit of the Russian 53rd Anti-Aircraft Rocket Brigade based in Kursk, Russia, which, they said, had been transported from Donetsk to Snizhne and was controlled by separatists in Ukraine on the day of the attack.[24][25][26][27][28]

In July 2015, Malaysia proposed that the United Nations Security Council set up an international tribunal to prosecute those deemed responsible for the downing of the plane. The Malaysian resolution gained a majority on the Security Council, but was vetoed by Russia.[29][30]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17

Mahatir Opens A Ukraine Political Pandora's Box

https://journal-neo.org/2019/06/09/mahatir-opens-a-ukraine-political-pan...

"...We don't know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it, and the idea was not to find out how this happened, but seems to be concentrated on trying to pin it to the Russians..."

Helmer: MH17 Prosecutions - The Dutch Fire Their Big Guns, The Subjunctive and Conditional Tenses, Plus Ukrainian Secret Service Tapes

http://johnhelmer.net/mh17-prosecution-the-dutch-fire-their-big-guns-the...

"Could isn't the same as did..."

MH17 Evidence Tampering Revealed By Malaysia - FBI Attempt to Seize Black Boxes; Dutch Cover-Up of Foreged Telephone Tapes; Ukrainian Air Force Hid Radar Records: Crash Site Witness Testimony Misrepresented (MUST WATCH)

http://johnhelmer.net/mh-17-evidence-tampering-revealed-by-malaysia-fbi-...

"A new documentary from Max an der Werff, the leading independent investigator of MH17 disaster, has revealed breakthrough evidence of tampering and forging of prosecution materials; suppression of Ukrainian Air Force radar tapes; and lying by the Dutch, Ukrainian, US and Australian governments..."

The Lie That Shot Down Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17

http://johnhelmer.net/page/3/?s=MH17

MH17 makes war criminals of Obama, Kerry, Poroshenko, Yatseniuk, Australian PM Turnball, FM Bishop, the Dutch PM Rutte, FM Timmermans, JIT's Westerbeke...Here's proof of what didn't happen..."

Russian conspiracy theory version

The plane just fell out of the air on it's own It was an act of God