Misogynist judge desperately seeks to save his job

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alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Misfit wrote:
Ikomos, in my province many decades ago, a woman was brutally assaulted by her pimp. The judge acquitted the pimp of assault claiming that she consented to the violence because she was a prostitute and that violence naturally comes with the career she chose. In another case, the same judge said to the jury that two teenage boys, who brutally raped a prostitute, and then left her face down in a mud puddle unconscious to die and even joked about it the next day at school claiming that she deserved to die because she was just an Indian, he said to the jury to remember that she was a prostitute and that these are good kids. I witnessed the effects of a judge in another province who acquitted three men of gang raping a 15 year old girl because she wore a halter top to a party and was therefore responsible for what happened to her. Yes, I believe that these statements and decisions by judges are very common indeed.

This isn't surprising. When I was young I hung out in the Ste-Catherine/St-Laurent street area. I remember in the middle of the day one time,a prostitute was being beaten by who was surely her pimp all in view of 2 cops sitting in their car. Another time,during the winter,the prostitutes were all out in fur coats with their pimps,wearing berets for some reason (it really made them stand out) and nothing.

AFAIK,the police would arrest the johns,arrest (and to be blunt,sexually exploit) the prostitutes. You'd never,NEVER hear of their pimps being arrested who,IMO,are the real criminals that make a living exploiting and beating girls,mostly runaways and drug addicts.

I don't know if attitudes have changed but back then I can tell you,the pimps were left alone.

It's pretty sickening.

Pondering

I think a large panel would be appropriate. Three judges make one or more selections. They are best placed to evaluate the lawyers in contention. Three political appointees vet the selections. A panel of 7 citizens selected something like jurors do the final vetting but have formal access to advisors from various fields of expertise. From the point that the judges make their selection(s) the names would be public so that by the time it gets to citizen vetting any obvious issues will have surfaced.

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
the names would be public so that by the time it gets to citizen vetting any obvious issues will have surfaced.

The other advantage would be that if we don't get the outcome we hoped for we'll know exactly who to accuse of "aiding and abetting".

We should probably also make their address and phone number public, yes?  To keep them honest?

Misfit Misfit's picture

Magoo, you say that they (the medical professionals sitting on these boards) are there to serve the interests of the government and the citizens, and this would tie in with other self-regulating bodies as welll, then why are the punishments so lax, and why do say the police forces end up justifying the actions of their officers who commit what the general public deems to be heinous abuses of power? Pookie already mentioned up thread that only two judges have been removed from the bench in Canada since the early seventies and that this latest review could very likely not result in a termination of his job. If this is the case, then it can be argued that the CJC is not properly serving the interests of the citizens nor the government by rendering such a decision.

bekayne

Federal Court Justice Robin Camp — who asked a woman during a rape trial why she couldn't just keep her knees together — should be removed from the bench, according to a unanimous recommendation from the Canadian Judicial Council's committee of inquiry.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/robin-camp-federal-court-judge-inq...

kropotkin1951

The part that pisses me off the most is the gross incompetence he displayed. I can't imagine going into a case as a Judge and not having read the basic law on the issue at hand. Especially in criminal law when so much is at stake. 

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Now we wait and see if the recommendation is carried out.

pookie

There are a couple of cases where the CJC has bucked a recommendation to remove but this is so thoroughly and powerfully argued, not to mention unanimous, that I honestly would be shocked if it voted against.  It doesn't want to wear this.

The actual report is 100 pages long, but very accessible and worth reading in its entirety.

I suspect Camp will resign, possibly before the vote is called.

milo204

anyone who is as dumb as this guy doesn't deserve to be a judge.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

I hope you're right, pookie.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Can he be disbarred?

Misfit Misfit's picture

I cannot remember where I read it but if it is true that a significant percentage of judges in Canada get appointed to the bench without a proper background and knowledge of criminal law, why are they being appointed in the first place? Why are they not forced to take mandatory criminal training before they are appointed so that they are qualified to do their jobs? ETA: here it is...Paula Simons, Edmonton Journal. Dec. 1, 2016, "Removing Rogue Judges is a Good Thing; Declining to Appoint Them is a Better One." ...I mean, Robin Camp is just the tip of the ice berg. He is an extreme case, but I think we need a major overhaul of our entire judicial system in order to clean up this mess, and a larger cull of these mysogynistic dinosaurs is in order.

pookie

I agree that there is a problem with appointments.

Camp would have resigned his bar membership upon beccoming a judge so there is nothing to rescind.  It would be more an issue of whether a law society would re-admit him. Separate issue from this one.  Enrollment in the bar requires "good character".  Being recommended from removal from judicial office would appear to conflict with that, but there are no prior examples of which I am aware where this had to be decided. Normally we're talking about criminal convictions, or discplinary proceedings relating to fraud against clients.

Look.  He's in his 60s - I think he's going to find a way to retire.  At least, from the practice of law.  But if he did go for it, he'd have a tough time.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Thank you, Pookie.

Mr. Magoo

It does seem a bit odd that one needs years of law school, including what I'm told is a pretty intense exam, to become a lawyer, but apparently no extra schooling (and not even a challenge exam) to become a judge.

 

pookie

There are some non-common law jurisdictions where one actually trains to be a judge (Japan?).  But they are generally held in less esteem.  

Here, it is a "gift" of the Crown, going back to those so designated from the House of Lords.  Very, very deep roots - now buttressed by a powerful sense of judicial independence.  Almost impossible to dislodge.

Mr. Magoo

Ya, I'm not really expecting the system to spontaneously change.  But I'm glad the medical profession doesn't operate the same way.  Can you imagine if a general practitioner, with a few years of good service, could be "appointed" to the position of cardiologist?

pookie

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Ya, I'm not really expecting the system to spontaneously change.  But I'm glad the medical profession doesn't operate the same way.  Can you imagine if a general practitioner, with a few years of good service, could be "appointed" to the position of cardiologist?

I'd push back a little on that, as I think the technical legal skills that characterize good judging are developed through a variety of professional settings one would experience as a lawyer.  So, it's not like a generalist suddenly going into a specialty. Indeed, if anything, it's the other way around. As a lawyer you tend to develop a specialty while judges in our system, if they are on superior courts, have jurisdiction over an unlimited number of areas.  

I do think governments should be cautious about appointing judges to anything other than specialist courts if they have zero criminal knowledge.  it's just too important to wing it. 

Mr. Magoo

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So, it's not like a generalist suddenly going into a specialty. Indeed, if anything, it's the other way around.

Well, fair enough.  But it's still worrisome, because when you flip it around it's like "appointing" a loyal and long-serving dentist to the position of general practitioner.

I guess my point, if I can distill it out, is that as important and influential and powerful as judges and justices are, it seems sort of like there's no measurable criteria for fitness for the position, other than "x years" of loyal service, or whatever.

Let me double-distill it:  why do we not feel that judges and justices require any kind of training or supplementary education beyond law school?

Misfit Misfit's picture

In other words, if you do get appointed, then take one full year of mandatory academic training and pass the required tests before stepping behind the bench.

kropotkin1951

Misfit wrote:

In other words, if you do get appointed, then take one full year of mandatory academic training and pass the required tests before stepping behind the bench.

I think mandatory education is a good idea, precisely because all lawyers are specialized. However unlike a medical doctor the skills required to be a good judge are the same as the skills required to be a good lawyer. So while the area of law is different the intellectual rigor and proper preparation by reading the relevant case law for the issue at hand. That is why I said up thread that him not doing the work before sitting in judgement in an area he was not familiar with should be enough by itself to get him thrown off the bench. 

After law school one needs to do articles for a year. However even then the classroom portion is only three months. I think a three month course in other areas of law from the one a lawyer practiced in would be a good brushup.

Mr. Magoo

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However unlike a medical doctor the skills required to be a good judge are the same as the skills required to be a good lawyer.

I'm really not asking this as a "gotcha" or whatever, but if this is true then why wouldn't any and ever lawyer be a good candidate for judge or justice?  IOW, what should be the differentiator?

pookie

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
However unlike a medical doctor the skills required to be a good judge are the same as the skills required to be a good lawyer.

I'm really not asking this as a "gotcha" or whatever, but if this is true then why wouldn't any and ever lawyer be a good candidate for judge or justice?  IOW, what should be the differentiator?

Because lawyers differ in terms of their skill level.  Lawyers also vary widely in their temperament.

Both skill and temperament can be evaluated.

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