War in Syria 3

lagatta wrote:

The people I know who were tortured where secular leftists, not Islamists.

The Putin gang has really taken over this board.

It is entirely possible to oppose Wall Street, the Kremlin, and their pet dictators.

The very way you make your remarks gives you away. This is taking a position. Instead of principled support for the right of Syrians to decide their own future, for the UN-recognized government to defend itself (whatever our own personal views about said government)  you write comments as though ... you're doing some political shopping.  A little bit of this, a little bit of that. And so on.

Shopping. This is just offensive on so many levels.

For the nonce, the SAA has suspended military actions in Aleppo to allow many thousands, trapped as human shields in the terrorist-controlled parts of the city, to escape to freedom.

Call me cynical, but I expect a direct "accidental" US/NATO airstrike on the SAA or the civilians.

Syrian Army Suspends Military Operations in Aleppo

Quote:

Syrian government forces have suspended “active military activities” against militants in eastern Aleppo to enable the withdrawal of civilians from the city, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has announced while speaking in Hamburg, Germany.

Lavrov was speaking on Thursday on the sidelines of a meeting of ministers from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE).

The Russian foreign minister also urged the UN special envoy to Syria, Staffan de Mistura, to “stop sabotaging” the Geneva Syria peace talks.

Did you get that? The Russian FM has to slap the UN representative up side the head because he keeps stoking the war. The discreet charm ...

Quote:

Speaking to reporters, he also expressed hope that those responsible for the recent attack on a Russian mobile hospital in western Aleppo will be brought to justice. The assault happened earlier this week and left two female paramedics dead and one chief pediatrician severely injured.

"We are just doing our job, probably not everyone likes it, and a recent targeted strike against our hospital is yet more proof of that. But I am convinced that all measures will be taken to punish those responsible, and to prevent similar [attacks] in the future," Lavrov said.

He noted that the US State Department previously expressed regret over the incident, but emphasized that “it has to clarify” all the circumstances. However, according to Foreign Minister “in cases when the Syrian government can be suspected, Americans are not clarifying anything, but are immediately heading to the microphone, demanding [the perpetrators] be punished."

Global Research wrote:

As everyone who follows the international news knows, the last few months have witnessed a blizzard of angry stories and complaints from Western government concerning alleged Syrian and Russian bombing of hospitals in Aleppo.

This blizzard contrasts starkly with the almost complete silence in the West about the attack on the Russian hospital in Aleppo yesterday.

The discreet charm of the Western regimes.

Mercouris points out that the Western regimes, and their obedient MSM, rely upon what are essentially Al-Qaeda sources, or sources who operate in Al-Qaeda controlled areas. The Western regimes and their obedient MSM see nothing wrong with this.Why should they? They support the terrorists and the latter's goal of the overthrow of the only secular state in the middle east.

Quote:

However, what it does mean is that the scope for Al-Qaeda to manipulate the stories is boundless.  In any war situation, the risk of accepting unconfirmed accounts of events by one party to the conflict is great. When the party in question is Al-Qaeda – a violent internationally proscribed terrorist organisation – the risk of doing so is even greater.”

About this obvious problem, nothing from the MSM. Just the same animal droppings, over and over again. It is also interesting that the US attack on Mosul in Iraq has revealed an Al-Qaeda strategy; build your HQ inside a hospital that you've taken over ... that way, the human shields protect your command centers from attack. Win win, right?

I see, upthread, the Canadian regime has added its shrill, chihuahua bark to the baying of Washington, London, Paris, Berlin, and Rome. That's really "punching above your weight" Canada. Tally ho.

Shopping... "offensive on so many levels".

Yep, it is gross sexism. As if I were some kind of living Barbie doll who likes to go to "the mall" and get my nails done in one of those nail salons exploiting young Southeast Asian women...

It is, of course, also politically offensive, not only once again insinuating some affinity on my part with certain imperialist governments (anyone who knows me in real life would have a good laugh over that one) but also that those that don't parrot the line of a given camp are simply "shoppers" and dilettantes and not people who are trying to analyse the world, foster workers' internationalism and not kowtow to any power or their line.

I should find an appropriate quote from Rosa Luxemburg, but I'm too tired to do a search - believe it or not, yes, I was shopping - at three different places with a list to take advantage of specials. For FOOD.

ikosmos wrote:

lagatta wrote:

The people I know who were tortured where secular leftists, not Islamists.

The Putin gang has really taken over this board.

It is entirely possible to oppose Wall Street, the Kremlin, and their pet dictators.

The very way you make your remarks gives you away. This is taking a position. Instead of principled support for the right of Syrians to decide their own future, for the UN-recognized government to defend itself (whatever our own personal views about said government)  you write comments as though ... you're doing some political shopping.  A little bit of this, a little bit of that. And so on.

Shopping. This is just offensive on so many levels. 

[b]You need to stop insulting other babblers every time they have a different opinion than you. It's fucked up.[/b]

Rev Pesky wrote:

Meanwhile, in Mosul precisely the same thing is going on. US Air Force bombing hospitals, Iraqi Air Force killing civilians. No word from the 'leaders of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, the UK and the United States' on the situation in Mosul. I guess that's because the USA bombing hospitals is different, and Iraq killing civiians is different. 

It's simple. When the Americans bomb civilians, or hospitals, or such, it's always an accident. When Russia does it, it's always on purpose. Anyone who says differently is a Russian "useful idiot". qed.

Al-Assad describes the relationship between his country and Russia. Firstly, he talks about how a subservient role is the Western description of his country, and why ...

Quote:

Question: Mr. President, allow me to move from Aleppo to international relations. So far, the West is portraying the Syrian-Russian relation as one of subordination, that Syria is a Russian satellite, and that Damascus no longer has an independent decision, for all decisions are made in Moscow. How do you respond to such claims?

President Assad: First, let’s say that the West thinks this way because it lives such a condition. You know that all Western states are now satellites of one master, America. The American maestro moves his baton and they all move in one direction, politically, militarily, or even in the media. What coincidence that all Western media across Europe and America have one narrative! What democracy and freedom! So, they live this condition of subordination. Their relationship with other states in our region is one of subordination. It is well known that most states in this region are satellites of Western states and axes, one way or another. That’s why they use this logic.

.. and some remarkable comments about Russian-Syrian relations, independent of the current Russian President ...

Quote:

As for Russia, we have dealt with many Russians recently, in addition to our knowledge of them for decades, through the relationship with the Soviet Union and then with Russia. In the different circumstances this relationship has undergone – circumstances that have brought radical changes – not once the Russians tried to impose anything on us, even when there were differences, including Syria’s role in Lebanon. Despite our differences with the Soviet Union at that time, they did not try to impose certain decisions on us although we used to depend greatly on them, particularly when it comes to weapons. Today, the same applies to the Russian Federation. It is not merely a style adopted by the President or the Russian leadership. It is a form of popular culture for them. When we meet on all levels, and in all sectors, they have one culture based on morality. They have self-respect and they respect sovereignty. That’s why the Russian policy today is based on principles, because these principles constitute an existing popular and cultural condition. When they say that they emphasize Security Council resolutions, state sovereignty, respect for others, respect for the will of the Syrian people, or any other people, they reflect their culture and apply it on a daily and continuous manner. That’s why I can confirm that they haven’t carried out one simple or complicated, major or important step, regardless of the labels, except in consultation with Syria.

..."it is a form of popular culture for them... it is not merely a style adopted by the [Russian] President ... they have one culture based on morality. They have self-respect and they respect sovereignty. "

These things are missing, not only from the state discourse in the Western regimes, NATO countries, etc., but also among the vast majority in places like rabble's discussion board. Contempt for sovereignty. LIterally. Loathsome and disgusting attitudes of approval of carrying out a war against a sovereign state is treated as if it were the most normal and respectful thing in the world. It's truly monstrous. And anyone who dares to challenge this chorus of hate... had better watch out.

Nearly 8,500 Civilians Flee Militant-Held Areas of Aleppo - Russian MoD (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/369717-aleppo-massive-civilian-evacuation

"Some 8,400 civilian have been evacuated from the militant-held districts of eastern Aleppo over the past 24 hours."

As Regime Change By Takfiris Fails - GCC Lobbyists Call For US Occupation of Upper Mesopotamia

https://t.co/rX6u9riN8s

Thanks Meg. I'll send you a PM. I think it is because the e-mail I first logged in way back in 2001 no longer exists.

Oh yes, this whole mess started (in the short term) with the deliberate destruction of Iraq as a nation and society by the US and their toadies (I was going to write "poodles", but I'm sick of all the animal references that are so unfair to non-human animals). And in the longer term by imperialist interference in the region, mostly by the British and later the USAmericans, but the French had a hand in it too.

I doubt many babblers would disagree.

The US and other powers, have long favoured religious fundamentalists in the region, originally to prevent the emergence of secular, democratic, nationalist or left forces. And certainly long been in bed with the Saudi theocratic monarchy.

MegB wrote:

Ikosmos, I'm getting  a lot of complaints about your posts. Do you need a break from babble?

I will send you a PM.

Meanwhile, the Canadian chihuahua regime, ever the obedient puppy dog to its masters in Washington (with sincere apologies to genuine puppy dogs, dog lovers, babblers whose feelings are hurt by comparisons of Canada's foreign policy to that of an obedient canine, and small children!) , put forward a motion at the UN GA today ...

RT wrote:

UN General Assembly demands truce in Syria, end to Aleppo siege

The United Nations General Assembly voted 122 to 13 on Friday to demand an immediate cessation of hostilities in Syria, humanitarian aid access throughout the country and an end to all sieges, including in Aleppo. Thirty-six countries abstained in the vote on the Canadian-drafted resolution on the nearly six-year Syrian conflict. General Assembly resolutions are non-binding, but can carry political weight. (Reuters)

O Canada! Ever the friend of freedom! OH, and about those sanctions against Syria, still fighting the terrorists that you support ...

ikosmos wrote:

MegB wrote:

Ikosmos, I'm getting  a lot of complaints about your posts. Do you need a break from babble?

I will send you a PM.

Here's why...

'US To Hand Out Arms Like Christmas Cookies To Preserve Terrorist Assets in Syria'

https://youtu.be/TKcABqJxWzQ

"President Obama's waiver of restrictions on supplying arms to militant groups in Syria looks like a desperate attempt to compensate for the loss of Aleppo and preserve terrorist assets elsewhere...'We must stop this madness. We must stop arming terrorists.'

Ja'afari Slams UN Resolution on Syria: 'Bloody Game is Over'

http://almasdarnews.com/article/jaafari-slams-un-resolution-syria-bloody...

"Syrian Ambassador to the UN Bashar Ja'a fari slammed a CANADIAN-DRAFTED RESOLUTION which attempts to end the Syrian Army siege on the jihadist-held pocket of E Aleppo.

'I would like to reassure the states that sponsor terrorism in Aleppo that the Syrian Army has up to this point liberated 93% of the areas that terrorists used to control in Aleppo city, and their bloody game is taking its last breaths,' Ja'afari added. Addressing the 'sponsors' of terrorism, the Syrian envoy also said that 'their bloody terrorist game in Syria and Aleppo is over..."

ikosmos wrote:

...Global slavery by the US is no longer possible. Many countries would have to be nuked, and their entire population murdered, for the USA to get its way. And, there is still a sizable fraction of the US population that would "object" to such genocide. A little. So I think your claim that they desire slavery, literally, from the global population is not quite correct.

Perhaps I'm quibbling. Chomsky also recently remarked that the GOP is the most dangerous organization in the world. I have to disagree. The US government is the most dangerous organization in the world.

Well, I think enslaving the whole globe has always been beyond the powers of the USA, but I don't think that prevents them from trying. I agree completely on your quote about the most dangerous organization. In fact, I wonder why Chomsky would differentiate between Democrats and Republicans. Their foreign policies over the years have been precisely the same.

ikosmos wrote:

...Edited to add: My apologies for not adding this. The Empire is, nevertheless, in decline. And, therefore, it sometimes conducts itself like a bull in a china shop, smashing things furiously, for no good reason other than it is stupid, brutal, and can't do anything else. I think this is also a part of the way the US conducts itself and why it doesn't make sense sometimes...

The biggest, and most effecive tool the US government has is it's military. And that is what it uses. As the old saying goes, when all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail. I agree the empire is in decline, and also agree that is the reason for at least some of their actions. To a certain extent, their show of military force is just to remind people that they still have it.

What a different world this would be if it was the force of ideas instead of the force of arms.

As the SAA and its Allies continue successfully against the Western-sponsored Axis of terrorists, especially in Aleppo, the US Daesh proxies have been able to move from Iraq back to Palmyra in Syria, with a sizable force. A. Korybyko has a good analysis of these events and how they may affect the defense of Syria.

Quote:

Oriental Review just published my analysis on "The Implications Of Daesh's Palmyra Offensive":

"Although the Russian Aerospace Forces did respond to the attack, the fact that they weren’t preemptive in stopping it in the first place could mean a few interrelated things. The first is that Russia was so concentrated on the Aleppo operation (both its military and humanitarian halves) that it simply didn’t have enough resources to devote to monitoring events around Palmyra. This would point to larger problems, though, which would suggest that the size of the Russian military presence in Syria is not adequate for the mission that’s expected of it and should consequently be increased as soon as possible.

This observation gains credence when one considers the reports that the Palmyra offensive was enabled by Daesh reserves being redirected from Raqqa and Mosul, which if true, would mean that a few thousand terrorists and all of their heavy weaponry were able to make the long haul across the desert (and in the case of Mosul, even across the international border) without being detected and/or preemptively bombed."

The Implications Of Daesh’s Palmyra Offensive

Long ago, still smarting from the thrashing the US monster received in Viet Nam, the Americans decided to "Viet Nam-ize" the conflict in Afghanistan, in the words of architect Zbignew Brzezinski, forcing the then Soviet Armed Forces to play an ever larger role in that country. Call it revenge for an ass-kicking. Brzezinski gloats about this "accomplishment" to this very day although, naturally enough, he has less to say about how he contributed to awakening, funding, training, and throwing loving attention on these medieval jihadists, dushmen and the like, that are now plagueing our entire planet.

In any case, it looks somewhat the same with the US barbarians, truly in love with their head-chopping proteges, surreptitiously helping (or certainly not hindering) their proxies across the Iraq/Syria border to make a new HQ for Daesh and the rest of the jihadi potpourri in sacred Palmyra. There will be no more Russian classical music concerts in that part of the desert! Rock and roll and zombie Sunni head bangers only! 

Korybko is optimistic that Turkey, now more Eurasian than European, and smarting both from European visa and Schengen snubs and snobbery, outraged by the US-sponsored coup d'etat, will work more with Iran and Russia than hitherto. Turkey has its own conflict with the Kurds already, but it would not take much of a change for Turkey to direct their guns at their whilom anti-Syrian allies in that part of Syria. We'll see soon enough.

Sorry, Uncle Sam, your plots are familiar. There's just too much good in the world for you, huh?

For an alternative to the above pro-US imperialist "alternative" see Alex Mercouris ...

Quote:

This episode in fact highlights the different approaches to the war between the Russians and the Syrians.

For the Russians retaining Palmyra, which is a critically important cultural monument, is a fundamental objective, so that its loss to ISIS was – as General Baluyevsky has said – a blow to their “prestige”. 

For the Syrians, the very existence of whose state is at stake, Palmyra is a sideshow, and a distraction from the real war, in which they are fighting for their lives and for their country in western Syria.

Furious Russian military blame US, ‘humanitarian pauses’, for fall of Palmyra

The Western MSM and its echo chamber cannot conceive of a difference in opinion between the Russian military and the Putin administration. How could they? Russian is an utter one-man dictatorship and, therefore, differences are impossible.

Must be nice to live in such a fantasy world.

Meanwhile, Mercouris is of the view that the Russian military view is going to prevail.

Quote:

Notwithstanding these differences, it is undoubtedly the Russian view about Palmyra which is now going to prevail.  Though the very latest reports confirm that ISIS is still gaining ground near Palmyra, and though the number of reinforcements which the Syrian army has so far sent to Palmyra is small, there is no doubt that a major counter-offensive to recapture the city will be organised in the next few weeks.

Though the Russians continue to rule out sending ground troops to Syria, they have pointedly made known that they do not consider their Special Forces (“Spetsnaz”) to be ground troops.  Undoubtedly some of them are heading to Palmyra now.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...

Syrian Army Declares Victory in Aleppo

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/world/201612121048476601-syria-army-calls-victory-aleppo/

I'm looking forward to the revealing silence, or gloomy reporting about the victory, or "hopeful" reports on the jihadist efforts in Palmyra, or vigorous denunciations of the poor GLBT services in newly-liberated Aleppo ... in the "free" Western MSM ...

It's party time in Aleppo. And rightly so!

Long series of articles from assorted Russian media posted advocating increased pro-Russian military engagement in Syria to eliminate rebels, strengthen Assad and ignore ISIS.

Rev Pesky: crickets

One article from western media posted pointing out imperial nature of Russian adventurism in Syria.

Rev Pesky: "Hey, get your head out of the National Enquirer!"

Further series of articles from assorted Russian media posted .... 

I did a little more research on your friend Kyle Orton. Turns out he's a Fellow of the Henry Jackson Society, a British group dedicated to the memory of Henry 'Scoop' Jackson, and the furtherance of his goals.

You might wonder why a British group would name themselves after a US Senator, but it's all explained at the site:

The Henry Jackson Society

Essentially a group of half-wit neo-cons running a propaganda organization.

Good one, sherpa-finn. I'd never heard of these guys before, but now I do. When I need a good laugh.

But, 'closer to reality'? Oh my.

So how do you, personally, know which narrative to buy into? Maybe the CBC is inaccurate or lying, maybe your beloved Russian sources are inaccurate or lying. How do you know?

Because, really, unless you're on the ground there, you don't. And even then, it would be difficult to tell. Fundamentally, we all fly blind to a certain extent and we rely on sources of news that we decide to trust for one reason or another. Sometimes that reason is analytical, sometimes that reason is based on emotion, sometimes it's based on deep-seated biases and sometimes it's all about that which benefits us. In war coverage, it's always easy to get some percentage of detail wrong, one way or the other.

Short answer: You're just buying the narrative that you like. Or the one that butters your bread. Either way, just stop with the sticky-keyboard wanker stuff. I doubt there are "celebrations" given the massive extent of destruction, whether you like the guys who blew this or that up or not. A lot of people are dead and dying. Have some respect.

Street Celebrations in Aleppo.

Just look the other way if it bothers you.

Boris Johnson: "Rule Britannia, Britannia Rules the Waves!"

Just an idiot for a long, blown out, Empire. Boris Johnson discusses air drops for the jihadis - sorry, I mean "the rebels" - in a last ditch effort to help them...

Quote:

“For air drops to be accurate they must be conducted at low level and low speed and Russia has deployed its most advanced jet fighters and surface-to-air missiles in Syria, which makes it impossible for us to carry out air drops without Russian permission.

Even if Russia were to give its consent, our aircraft would still have to fly over areas of Syria that are hotly contested by a multitude of armed groups, including Daesh and al-Qaida.

They would make every effort to shoot down a British plane and a lumbering, low-flying transport aircraft would be a sitting duck.

We came reluctantly to the conclusion that air drops over Syria under those conditions would prove too great a risk.

And when it comes to drones and other devices, we still face the problem that it is the Syrians and the Russians who control the airspace.

Of course it is possible that circumstances may change, so I will not rule out any option for delivering aid today but nor will I give false hope.

As things stand, we’d be risking the lives of our aircrew if we were to try to drop supplies into eastern Aleppo.

We are doing everything we can within the constraints that we face. I hope that Russia will see sense and join with us to secure the transition away from Assad, that is the only hope for a peaceful Syria. It’s up to them. It’s up to the Russians, it’s up to Iran. They have the future of Syria in their hands.”

Rule Britannia! Britannia Rule the Waves!

Victory Morning.

Source: Syrian Arab Republic.

It's okay, ikosmos. 

If I want to get real news, and have a real discussion about the situation in Syria, I do it elsewhere. I haven't bothered here for ages.

This thread has pretty much been the ikosmos and NDPP show for months, and there isn't much for anyone else to say except to react to your posts.

So sure, the executions, bombings and murders are faked. No one is getting killed. They all got on busses and went east.

I could get outraged about you jumping for joy. Have done in the past. But really how many people are reading this and taking it seriously?

The only thing I think is kind of shitty is that that real discussion is not going to happen on this site, becaucse as with a number of other issues the hope of any talk, even any reasonable disagreement, just gets trolled into the ground.

If that's your victory, it is a pretty hollow one. Who is engaging here? Five people?