Venezuela right-wing opposition wins control of National Assembly by a landslide

Are you ever going to stop obsessing about this, Magoo?  

It's not as though anyone but the wealthy would have benefited from anything you wanted to see happen happening.  Yes, it would have been more mundanely "democratic", but there was never any chance of that legislature doing anything positive.  The MUD didn't want to do anything positive.  It just wanted to restore the power of the rich and do stupid things like making food and gas more expensive.  None of that was ever going to be a solution to any of Venezuela's problems.  The MUD program is basically Pinochet without the executions.

It was never about worshipping a dead guy.  It was about defending the gains that the people had won.  And I'm sorry, but you should know by now that elections usually have little to do with democracy.

Maduro isn't my favorite guy.  But I know what the place would be like if MUD had its way- it could only be worse.  Greater economic inequality can never improve living standards for the many.  Nor can "the free market".  Nor can living under American hemispheric dominance.

The MUD victory was only achieved because the U.S. did all it could to force the Venezuelan economy down, in the name of forcing the people to vote to put profit and property first.  All that result proves is that you can make people vote to pubush themselves if you turn the screws enough.

Why should any of the MUD program even be tried?  It all failed in Chile when Pinochet did it.  It could never do anything but mke life worse.  And if the rich get the upper hand again, all hope is gone there forever.  

Venezuelan Putschist Oscar Perez seems to be a right-wing Christian fundamentalist - hijacked a helicopter, dropped 2 grenades on the Supreme Court and called for a coup.

https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/879938809059848192

Venezuela: US Occupation Has Already Begun and is Being Conducted By ExxonMobil

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/opinion/Venezuela-US-Occupation-Has-Alr...

"The priority of this US oil company to topple Venezuela is geopolitical and geoeconomic, as a fundamental pillar of a new political, economic, and financial configuration of the continent..."

Canada supports

Ken Burch wrote:

Why should any of the MUD program even be tried?  It all failed in Chile when Pinochet did it.  It could never do anything but mke life worse.  And if the rich get the upper hand again, all hope is gone there forever.  

Ken Burch wrote:

Yes, it would have been more mundanely "democratic", but there was never any chance of that legislature doing anything positive...The MUD program is basically Pinochet without the executions.

You know, I've been doing a lot of introspection about Venezuela lately. I'm fairly far to the left, was a firm suporter of Chavez against the American-backed right-wing coup and subsequent economic warfare, and am probably more sympathetic to Maduro than the majority of Venezuelans at this point. And yet, you brought up Pinochet, and I have to say this:

Henry Kissinger said, in backing Pinochet, “I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist because of the irresponsibility of its own people.”

I completely understand the logic of not wanting to let a country go right-wing because of the irresponsibility of its voters, but if one believes in democracy, one has to acknowledge the right of the people to make a choice, even when it's the wrong choice. Using force to reject the results of an election because the voted-for policies are going to destroy things was exactly Pinochet's logic.

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In Venezuela's anti-government unrest, where 80 people have died since April, youths bear colourfully decorated homemade shields akin to those used in Kiev's Maidan Square.

The young Venezuelans make their shields from satellite TV dishes, drain covers, barrels or any other scraps of wood and metal they can find. Some supporters also make and donate shields.

If they were pushing back against what we saw as a right-wing government, this kind of resiliance would bring a tear to our collective eye.

But the government pretends to be "socialist" and "for the people", so now what??  Side with the people, or side with the establishment?

I think the idea that they're all the spoiled children of oligarchs doesn't hold water any more.  So what are Venezuelans actually fighting for?  I don't really think it's for a few American dollars from the CIA at this point.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

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In Venezuela's anti-government unrest, where 80 people have died since April, youths bear colourfully decorated homemade shields akin to those used in Kiev's Maidan Square.

The young Venezuelans make their shields from satellite TV dishes, drain covers, barrels or any other scraps of wood and metal they can find. Some supporters also make and donate shields.

If they were pushing back against what we saw as a right-wing government, this kind of resiliance would bring a tear to our collective eye.

Magoo I dont know what fucking left wing collective you think you can speak for. LMAOROF.

Not even centrist Liberals and Tories would cheer for Brown Shirts in the street paid to terrorize hospitals and clinics and food distribution centres.  I expect you to be an apologist for the Western oligarchy but being an apologist for neo-nazi's rampaging in the streets is even a bit much for you.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/the_americas/government-sup...

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Not even centrist Liberals and Tories would cheer for Brown Shirts in the street paid to terrorize hospitals and clinics and food distribution centres.

I'm talking about protesters making shields out of scraps of wood, and you're still maintaining they're being paid.  I guess the pay isn't all that good.

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You're really going to defend the destruction of food supplies in the name of making an abstract political comment?

A huge part of the reason that Venezuela is in such a mess right now is that the mess is coming at them from both sides.

I don't really believe that anyone here at babble "fist pumps" when demonstrators trash a warehouse, nor when 'colectivos' rough up the elected members of the Assembly.  But that's Venezuelans' reality now.

The violence from both sides makes the news, because that's kind of how the news works.  But I don't really feel like either the left or the right has God on their side. 

And that's why I'm considerably more interested in things like "Why couldn't the electorate hold the recall referendum that Chavez' constitution promised them?"  I feel like that's a far more salient question than "who's worse, a protester with a molotov cocktail or a 'colectivo' with a motorcyle and a gun??"

..from #373

quote:

That said, we can pull three clear themes out of the government’s behavior: a revival of foreign investment in extractive industries, a growing militarization of the government, and the transformation of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) into an instrument of political control.

Maduro has suggested one solution to the massive hole in the state budget: the Arco Minero, Venezuela’s Amazon region. The area represents 12 percent of the national territory and holds a cornucopia of minerals, oil, and gas. Additionally, it is the country’s principal source of freshwater.

Chavez rejected a development proposal some years ago for environmental reasons and in recognition of indigenous communities’ human and territorial rights. But last summer, Maduro began inviting multinational corporations to bid for concessions.

He made the first offer to Barrick, the giant Canadian gold-mining concern that had been excluded from Venezuela a decade earlier. After Chávez nationalized the mines, the company demanded hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation payments. As a gesture of his good faith, Maduro has agreed to pay this debt as well as offer a ten-year tax holiday and develop the regional infrastructure at the state’s expense.

quote:

Now Maduro has called for a new Constituent Assembly to convene at the end of July. This will barely resemble the 1999 meeting. Then, discussion was open and public, and people engaged with the process optimistically. This time, the Maduro administration will carefully orchestrate the event, making sure whatever changes the government chooses to introduce will be approved. There will be no debate, no transparency.

quote:

Despite this setback, the memory of those years persists wherever people operate cooperatively in their own defense and keep the traditions of solidarity alive — even if many of them have fallen momentarily silent.

The Left outside Venezuela can help rebuild the movement by participating in an honest accounting of what went wrong. As socialists, we are not required to choose the lesser evil. Rather, we should support those in struggle in rebuilding the basis for a genuinely democratic society.

But I continue to think there's merit in "Venezuelan people" vs. "everyone else".

..excellent position. i believe that's where the hope lies. where the change needs to come from because top down is never good enough.

Evidently, epaulo13's article from Jacobin is insufficiently partisan!  It's literally TOO balanced!

Jacobin magazine attacks Venezuela, Cuba and TeleSUR

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Such articles advocating a non-existent “third way” of supporting “the people” in the abstract only fosters confusion and cynicism. When the forces of reaction in Venezuela are on the offensive, abetted by the Western media on a daily basis, such analyses obstruct solidarity organizing from within the United States. It tells the working class of the United States that they have nothing at stake in the defense of Venezuela at the exact moment when a progressive left-wing government, having endured years of sabotage, is under threat of possible “humanitarian” intervention.

I guess Jacobin should just look the other way with regard to government policies and actions, and focus more on the shifty quislings, "mafias" and other no-goodniks trying to ruin the obvious runaway success of Bolivarianism and Chavismo.

I dunno.  Should journalists try to serve the truth and the people?  Or serve the President and the revolution?

I'm pretty sure I could find examples of Canadian journalists criticizing the government.  Even on the bought-and-paid-for CBC!

Do you feel like you could find similar examples of TeleSur criticizing Maduro?

Why Can't the US Left Get Venezuela Right?

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/07/13/why-cant-the-u-s-left-get-venezu...

"How did the US left get it so wrong?"

Venezuela referendum shows strong opposition to Maduro's constitution plan

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In an unofficial, opposition-organized referendum, about 7.2 million people voted against Maduro's plan to change the constitution, demanding immediate general elections to renew all branches of government.

That's actually more voters than voted for the Liberals in 2015.

Here's a similar article from TeleSur.

Evidently the international Left isn't giving Nicolas Maduro the unquestioning support they owe him.

'Zero Day' For Violent Regime Change in Venezuela

https://t.co/EaXOgNghgv

"Since April, the opposition tries to dislodge the government by instigating a regime change by force. Its protests and street fights with the police are led by violent militarized gangs...as was seen during the US-instigated color revolutions by force in Libya, Ukraine and Syria..."

General Strike.

It's probably going to have little effect, and it's almost surely not going to prevent the President from going ahead with plans for a new governing body beholden to him.

Funny, though, that when Venezuelans clearly wanted the opportunity to vote in a recall referendum, they couldn't have it because apparently "As for the recall referendum, it was well known that it would take approximately ten months to organize between its initiation and its culmination."

So, ten months for another regular general election, basically.

But this new election, creating an entirely new governing body, can take place with only three months of preparation.

Huh.  Fascinating how quickly they can mobilize when they want to.

edited to add:  or need to.

When two sides are diametrically opposed, there can be no such thing.

But if you want the next best, I'd suggest that epaulo13's link in post #373 is pretty balanced.  At any rate, you'd be hard put to know which side they're shilling for, if you think they're shilling.

At the same time, it's exactly the sort of thing that the "real" radicals are criticizing, as per NDPP's post #385 and my own post #386, as the international left crawling into bed with U.S. Imperialism or some such.  In other words, gird your loins -- you might hear TWO sides to the story.

..while we may differ on who's interests the maduro government represents. the role of the us can't be ignored or minimized.  

The Militarization of U.S. Policy on Latin America Is Deepening Under Trump

In a high-level meeting Friday, the presidents of Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador will discuss the region’s security with American and Mexican officials.

Innocuous enough, you may think. But part of the meeting will be held on a U.S. military base in Miami, Florida — the headquarters of the U.S. Southern Command, the Pentagon’s regional subsidiary that oversees American military operations throughout Central and South America as well as the Caribbean. Under President Donald Trump, the militarization of U.S. foreign policy is about to stretch more deeply into Central America.

Central America policy-making, hardly an open book to begin with, is set to become more secretive.  With the Conference on Prosperity and Security in Central America just days away, there is no official agenda of speakers or publicly listed events and no involvement of civil society organizations — even press access is extremely limited. What we do know is U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson will be there, as will Vice President Mike Pence — and of course, General John F. Kelly, the director of Homeland Security and the previous head of SOUTHCOM.

These high-level government officials will be joined by a coterie of elite Central American businessmen, invited to the conference by its hosts, the U.S. and Mexico. Trump’s budget envisions a massive cut in U.S. economic assistance to Central America, so officials will apparently be asking the country’s most rapacious and corrupt economic actors to fill the void.

“We must secure the nation. We must protect our people,” Secretary of State Tillerson told his staff last month in a discussion around Washington’s new “America First” foreign policy. “And we can only do that with economic prosperity. So it’s foreign policy projected with a strong ability to enforce the protection of our freedoms with a strong military.” By linking economic success with military operations, Tillerson telegraphed which way the foreign aid dollars will be blowing.

While much has been made of the reduction in the budgets of the State Department and USAID, don’t expect the U.S. to simply retreat. Rather, expect the U.S. military to deepen its involvement in the region. There may be no new official policy announcements, but the shift appears inevitable.

..let's explore that then magoo. i'm talking about us intervention. the same way we begin to understand what maduro is about and what the right is forcing. we could also use information re activist postilions. folks that have been involved in communities for many years. after all the struggle didn't begin with chavez.

eta:

..i think a good place to start re activists is ndpp's #389 post. the constituency assembly needs to go forward. it's been promised for years. if it's going to be manipulated we will see that in the processes..but it must go forward.  

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the constituency assembly needs to go forward. it's been promised for years.

Has it been?  Because the first I heard about it was back in May.  Do you mean that it's been a possibility for years?

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if it's going to be manipulated we will see that in the processes..but it must go forward.

I expect it probably will happen, and then of course we'll see.

But I personally think we don't really need to wait for that to know that something in the milk ain't clean.  The sudden rush to do this as quickly as possible, following the STJ's aborted attempt to take over the Legislature, looks pretty hinky.  Had the STJ not had to walk it back, I genuinely doubt that Maduro would be creating a new governing body he wouldn't need.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:

the constituency assembly needs to go forward. it's been promised for years.

Has it been?  Because the first I heard about it was back in May.  Do you mean that it's been a possibility for years?

Quote:

if it's going to be manipulated we will see that in the processes..but it must go forward.

I expect it probably will happen, and then of course we'll see.

But I personally think we don't really need to wait for that to know that something in the milk ain't clean.  The sudden rush to do this as quickly as possible, following the STJ's aborted attempt to take over the Legislature, looks pretty hinky.  Had the STJ not had to walk it back, I genuinely doubt that Maduro would be creating a new governing body he wouldn't need.

..i remember posting a couple years back on the assembly. it's been been stalled all this time and, i agree, it comes forward because maduro is desperate. 

..this assembly is not for maduro, even if in the end he manipulates it. it's for a program to come from the people. a direction. something to fight for. something to rally around. and you can bet it will call for decentralization of power and how to achieve it.  otherwise there are only 2 bad options on the table.