Greece #3

Greek Pensioners Protest Over Austerity Reforms (and PHOTOs)

https://www.rt.com/business/323653-greece-pensioners-protests-austerity/

"Over 2,000 pensioners took to the streets of Athens on Thursday protesting pension cuts and changes to social security. Protests also occurred in 12 other Greek cities and towns with pensioners holding placards and chanting 'We can't live on 300 Euro!'

Pensioner Chrystos Kirikas told Reuters that the administration of Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras is to be blamed for the ongoing economic crisis.

'They need to hear us. They should be ashamed of themselves, these parties on the Left who are starving us. I worked for 50 years of my life and now we are going hungry. Why is this happening?'..."

Greek lawyers stage indefinite strike against pension cuts

Lawyers across Greece began an indefinite strike yesterday, Thursday, against pension cuts the Syriza government is pushing through to appease its creditors. Up to 15,000 lawyers and supporters marched through the streets of the capital Athens.

Thanassis Kampagianis is a socialist lawyer on the prosecution team for the trial of Nazi party Golden Dawn—currently on hold for the strike. He told Socialist Worker, “This was a massive eruption of the whole profession to stop the pensions bill going to parliament.

“Participation was massive. Everyone was on strike—from the salaried lawyers at the big law firms to their bosses, as well as self-employed lawyers and law students.”

no doubt the CBC outrageous slants vs. left wing NDP type parties let this report slip through!

I would suggest to Trudeau`s advisors as they plan their rejuvenation of the CBC, to find a few slightly sharper conmen to guide our Orwellian network!...

News World CBC News Navigation Greece grinds to a halt in general strike over pension reforms Opposition to pension reform has cut across wide swath of occupational groups

The Associated Press Posted: Feb 04, 2016 2:42 AM ET Last Updated: Feb 04, 2016 7:40 AM ET

Protesters from the Communist-affiliated trade union PAME march during a 24-hour general strike against planned pension reforms in central Athens, Greece on Thursday. (Alkis Konstantinidis/Reuters)

• Greece election: Alexis Tsipras's Syriza to hold 145 of 300 seats

Services across Greece ground to a halt Thursday as workers joined in a massive general strike that cancelled flights, ferries and public transport, shut down schools, courts and pharmacies, and left public hospitals with emergency staff.

Well over 20,000 supporters of a Communist party-backed union were marching through central Athens, while around 10,000 more people — including about 1,000 lawyers in suits and ties — were gathering for a separate demonstration.

800 Greek Farmers Storm Agriculture Ministry in Athens, Police Fire Tear Gas (and vid)

http://www.rt.com/news/332243-athens-farmers-clash-police/

"Police in Athens have used tear gas to disperse a rally of farmers protesting austerity measures as they pelted the Agriculture Ministry with stones. A larger protest demonstration is due to start later Friday..."

More from iyraste1313 Mavroudeas interview above

Why Syriza is Sinking in Greece

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/02/09/why-syriza-is-sinking-in-greece/

"Syriza has revamped itself to the people as a milder manager of the troika austerity poliices. For now, Syriza is crumbling rapidly, losing popular support. At the same time, a coherent neoliberal bloc is being built across New Democracy. This bloc presses the capitulated Syriza to move even further to the right (in order to save its skin by accommodating with the bourgeoisie and the EU)."

Greece Loses Its Soul

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/04/12/greece-loses-its-soul/

"It's all about saving the Banks, saving the Creditors. Nowadays, Greece is a protectorate, a subject state..."

The Looting Stage of Capitalism: Germany's Assault on the IMF

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/26/the-looting-stage-of-capitalism-g...

"Having successfully used the EU to conquer the Greek people by turning the Greek 'leftwing' government into a pawn of Germany's banks, Germany now finds the IMF in the way of its plan to loot Greece into oblivion..."

Foolish Greece Now Joins NATO Gas War  -  by F William Engdahl

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/foolish-greece-now-joins-nato-gas-...

"European gas geopolitics are rapidly becoming as risky as its oil geopolitics. On May 17, Alexis Tsipras, Greek opportunist in chief and Prime Minister, signed an agreement in Thessaloniki to inaugurate the start of construction for the 550 km Trans Adriatic Pipeline (TAP) through Greece..."

Under the same roof”: some thoughts on the experience of the occupation of the City Plaza hotel

quote:

This new role for the solidarity movement is explicitly distinct from that of establishment structures and the division of EU funds from refugees between non governmental organisations. It is defined by the new needs that are created, both immediate and longer term, which will function as the cutting edge for new struggles. This means, at least as regards the agenda of new demands towards the government and other institutional actors, that, apart from demanding better living conditions for refugees, the issue of the political orientation of the institutional agenda for refugee policy is also brought to bear, namely the organisation of a policy based on social inclusion and the recognition of an equal role for refugees in society.

In this context, through solidarity practices, there emerge, timidly perhaps, new paradigms with transformative potential. Though the practice of occupying buildings for housing and social purposes has its roots in the now distant 70s, in central and Northern European countries –countries in which the issue of housing had emphatically emerged during that period– the truth is that the Greek experience is very limited. In spite of this, the arrival and the stay of refugees in Greece appears to be the impetus for the creation of a new paradigm.

Occupied hotel City Plaza has up to now housed around 150 refugees, of which over 50 are children – and sets a dynamic example with transformative potential. For how can  a seven floor hotel in good condition remain shut when at the same time underage children are sleeping in the streets, having previously survived war or even deadly sea journeys from Turkey to the Greek islands? The protection of human life and dignity can only be the strongest grounds for social utilisation, regardless of the problems that arise, big or small. This is also true for the occupied building on Notara street, which has now been in place for over six months, and which has greatly contributed to tackling the serious issue of refugee housing, as well as for other smaller attempts at housing provision which began in response to the refugee “crisis” and the need for creation of new forms of solidarity.

josh wrote:

AFP news agency ‏@AFP

#BREAKING IMF says Europe must provide more relief for Greece's 'highly unsustainable,' 'explosive' debt 

 

 

This is not news. The IMF has previously said that contracting the Greek economy below the size possible to handle its debts could not end well. The Greeks were broken.

The last time we saw a country broken down on purpose to this degree by its neighbours to the point that it could no longer pay what was expected -- from the same people who broke it down -- was following the First World War.

The fact that Germany could do this to Greece after its own history of 1919 is hard to understand. When you put a country to the point where it absolutely cannot pay what you are trying to extract, nothing good will come. Greece has performed with more stability than anyone ought to have expected

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:

The fact that Germany could do this to Greece after its own history of 1919 is hard to understand.

To be fair, though, Germany was assigned "reparations" to pay -- basically an arbitrary fine for having lost the war.

Greece isn't being fined, it's being required to pay back what it borrowed.

I don't disagree, though, that if you have to pay someone $1000 -- whether it's a fine or a loan -- and you only have $600 then there cannot be a happy ending.

Its even worse when the money is borrowed using your name but you don't see any of it and then the loan shark comes after you instead of your rich cousin who spent it all.

Rev Pesky wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

...Its even worse when the money is borrowed using your name but you don't see any of it and then the loan shark comes after you instead of your rich cousin who spent it all.

This is a concise and accurate description of what happened in Greece.

sort of.

or a meddling person with power over you who decides what you should have and spends it on wasteful things -- "for you" only to send you the bill. You get to pay for what you did not want or choose to have. They pretend it was all for you and call you wasteful.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Sean that is true but I was going for pithy. Something that I realize is not your strong suit.

Oh please; not another pithing match!

For decades after it was abandoned, not much was known about the Greek island of Spinalonga or its days as a leper colony – but all that is changing.

http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20170921-the-abandoned-greek-island-shro...

NDPP wrote:

"Tsipras in DC seen by many Greek leftists as an 'unprecedented manifestation of subordination to US imperialists.'

https://twitter.com/telesurenglish/status/921567969083191297

It is obvious what he was trying to do and the reason for it. He probabky went sraight home to have a shower after.

Syriza discredited itself long before this.  

I suppose some might believe that Tsipras, and SYRIZA, were wolves in sheep's clothing all along -- "faux lefties" going through the motions just long enough to sell out the Greek working class at the earliest opportunity -- but that would surely lead to uncomfortable questions about why their election prompted so much high-fiving and fist-pumping and such back when they were elected.  Anyone remember how they were supposed to put capital over their knee?

But if they weren't always sell-outs then I think they still serve as a good warning against assuming that all politicians need to do is not wear ties, and be rebellious and defiant, and flip the bird to the right and everything will work out fine.  Seemed to me at the time that their whole plan consisted of a big "fuck you", and then -- surprise! -- it didn't work as well in the real world as it did in their heads.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

I suppose some might believe that Tsipras, and SYRIZA, were wolves in sheep's clothing all along -- "faux lefties" going through the motions just long enough to sell out the Greek working class at the earliest opportunity -- but that would surely lead to uncomfortable questions about why their election prompted so much high-fiving and fist-pumping and such back when they were elected.  Anyone remember how they were supposed to put capital over their knee?

But if they weren't always sell-outs then I think they still serve as a good warning against assuming that all politicians need to do is not wear ties, and be rebellious and defiant, and flip the bird to the right and everything will work out fine.  Seemed to me at the time that their whole plan consisted of a big "fuck you", and then -- surprise! -- it didn't work as well in the real world as it did in their heads.

Nobody could know that at the time, for God's sakes.

 And what would you have had them do instead?  

There was nothing to the right of what SYRIZA proposed that could have been worth doing.

It's clear that wearing ties, showing public deference to the EU and obeying the austerity demands wouldn't have made any positive difference.  Look at the 1980s Labour councils in the UK who did what Labour's "responsible" leader Neil Kinnock wanted and agreed not to defy the Tories on rates and spending.  Every council who did that ended up abandoning all efforts to do anything to help the poor and the powerless-the policies of the "moderate" Labour councils became the exact same policies Tory councils would have brought in.  And as a result of that and of the crushing of all ideals and all calls for a society in any way different from Thatcherism at all(other than trivial increases in social spending), when Labour finally did regain power at Westminster, the gains for Labour supporters were unnoticeable and everything good was morally nullified by the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

cco wrote:

From my perspective on this side of the ocean, it came down to them being unwilling to break from the eurozone, and therefore compelled to accept German terms, despite having the people behind them. The equivalent lesson for Canada would be "Maintain control of your own monetary policy."

Exactly. You have hit the nail on the head.

This is something you cannot get back without great cost and even with political support.

The other lesson for Canada that we are learnign the hard way is that they say you can get out of trade agreements easily and we are seeing that this is not true. The price you pay going in is not refunded on the way out. So if Canada gives up whatever benefits we realized for NAFTA and the FTA, we will not get what we gave up to get these back quickly.

When it comes to trade agreements, Canada would need a substantial government investment and plan to manage losses should we get out of the agreement. Given other international trade rules, the return of leaving could be a while coming even if the imediate costs are high.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:

The fact that Germany could do this to Greece after its own history of 1919 is hard to understand.

To be fair, though, Germany was assigned "reparations" to pay -- basically an arbitrary fine for having lost the war.

Greece isn't being fined, it's being required to pay back what it borrowed.

I don't disagree, though, that if you have to pay someone $1000 -- whether it's a fine or a loan -- and you only have $600 then there cannot be a happy ending.

​For the love of god(s)(esses), it is NOT as simple as "Greece must pay what it 'owes' and that's all there is to it".   The debts were incurred by the Greek ruling class, with Goldman Sachs manipulating the situation.  It's not legitimate to expect the government the Greek people voted in the stop the ruling class from doing more damage to pay the ruling class's debts, anymore than it was legitimate to expect the postwar democratic German government of the 1920's to pay the debts inflicted by the military-aristocratic regime in the war IT started.  

Nature debt contract. 

It amuses me to no end how some people are so punitive towards debt cancelation.  Its simple contract between entites not some crazy blood oath.  One party lends the money to an other not becuase they have alturistic thoughts.  They are paid interest for the risk of lending the money.  If debter defaults are clear common law , staurtly law, plus provisions of the contract inform the parties what should happen.  Their no senitment in the law rather it how we are socialized how feel about debt calulation.  

National and Sub National bailouts.

I will use Canada rather Greece as an example.  Maybe 1 in 100 knows the truth about the "Iron Clad Super Banks" the capitalist talk about be they politicans, banks, investors, etc.  We just rode the out the crisis 2008 with out any problems becuase our banks are so strong.  This is probably the best report the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives ever releasaed.

Here is the primer.

Throughout the 2008-2010 financial crisis, Canadian banks were touted by the federal government and the banks themselves as being much more stable than other countries’ big banks. Canadians we assured that our banks needed no bailout. However, in reality, Canada’s banks received billions in cash and loan support during the 2008-2010 financial crisis—and the Canadian government has remained resolutely secretive about the details. This report examines the nature and extent of government support to Canada’s big banks, estimated on the basis of partial information provided by Canada’s public institutions, and an analysis of the banks’ own financial reports

https://www.policyalternatives.ca/publications/reports/big-banks-big-secret

Conclusion from the report.

thE OvErall picturE painted by this examination of Canadian banks’ use of government support programs during and after the global financial crisis of 2008–10 stands in stark contrast to both government and bank claims that Canada’s banks were somehow immune from the need for such extraordinary measures. It also raises more questions than answers, due to government secrecy. As this examination makes clear, some Canadian banks drew much more government aid than others during the financial crisis. It’s important for Canadians to know why some banks were more vulnerable than others. By keeping the details of this support secret, it is much harder for Canadians to evaluate what happened, why it happened and what can be done to prevent the need for such massive support in the future. It also casts a shadow upon the official line that Canada’s banking system is among the most robust in the world. Unfortunately, the veil of secrecy is also obscuring an obvious reality: Canada’s big banks are too big to fail. The Government of Canada, the Bank of Canada and the big banks themselves understand that Canada’s banks will be bailed out irrespective of the cost. The cEO of TD Bank Edmund Clark concluded as much at the height of the financial crisis, noting to investors:
The Big Banks’ Big Secret 31
“Maybe not explicitly, but what are the chances that TD Bank is not going to be bailed out if it did something stupid?”37 What’s clear from this examination of the government support programs is that the Bank of Canada and cMhc need to make public the details of their support to the country’s banks. A concerted effort should be made to understand why some banks required so much more support than others. The circumstances that allowed some Canadian banks to be less reliant upon government support should be replicated throughout Canada’s financial sector using strong government regulation. A healthy financial system cannot be based on massive government support for which the details remain secret. It is only through an honest and transparent examination of what occurred and how it can avoided in the future that a stronger financial system can be built, which is in everyone’s best interest.

​There is interesting news about bailouts in 2016/2017  but I will post in the thread when I orgaizne the data.Antoher post talking about Greece situation.

Thanks Seeking for this important information...what exactly was the nature of the secrecy? Just MSM or deliberate attempts by the Government to hide its bailouts?

This is scandalous!

Quote:

The razor-sharp mind of former Greek finance minister and the father of movement 2025, Yanis Varoufakis, is a good indicator of contemporary European thinking. And it's corrupt shallowness

Spoiler alert:  that means he has no time for silly-ass Communism.

Quote:

In his struggle (his ‘Mein Kampf’) to be a good European Varoufakis is clear

Godwin alert.

NDPP wrote:

McCarthyism in Europe Today

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/11/28/mccarthyism-in-europe-today/

"The razor-sharp mind of former Greek finance minister and the father of movement 2025, Yanis Varoufakis, is a good indicator of contemporary European thinking. And it's corrupt shallowness..."

He was simply making it clear that his ideas had nothing in common with the perverted model imposed by Stalin.  And since nothing done in the Soviet Union after 1924 was revolutionary or transformative or successful or in any reason worth repeating by the 21st Century Left, where was the betrayal?  It's not as if the only way to defy or defeat capitalist austerity is to defend "Marxism-Leninism".  

Why should he have defended an ossified, bloodsoaked failure?

Thanks Ken... a supporter of 'silly ass communism', Trump, and a 'Putinist' too they say, and more. Amazing eh? But one always considers the source. It's not unrelated to the political pathologies of putrefaction and perversion you remark above in Greece and elsewhere. It's here too this disease. You can hear the dog-whistlers whistling their dogs...