Al Franken needs to resign sooner rather than later

Who is Al Franken ?  As a Canadian should I care ?

josh wrote:

Yes, compare Franken to Weinstein.  Because there’s no difference between murder and petty theft.  

It's true that those are punished quite differently in the criminal justice system. But would you vote to reelect someone who'd been accused of petty theft? Svend Robinson's career came to an end over it, and I miss him a lot more than I'll miss Al Franken.

If it were racism it would be different. Sexism is never taken as seriously.

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and I did so because Lewinsky's been consistent for the past 20 years that she consented.

Whatever she wanted -- or imagined she wanted -- doesn't even merit its own variable in this equation.  Has no one bothered to mansplain this to her?

"Listen, honey, your feelings are adorable, but..."

Quote:

- He definitely should not have said that what others (Trump, Moore, etc.) did was worse. Saying "Others did it" does not make you look innocent.

To be fair, though, if Roy Moore is elected, despite much worse allegations against him, Franken would be reasonable wondering why those allegations aren't a problem for Conservatives (or the electorate) if the allegations against Franken are unbearable.

And same with Trump, really.  Going by that photo of Franken, he only "grabbed them by the breast".  How is it that grabbing them further south isn't a something?

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He should have come across as deer-in-the-headlights rather than obviously petulant.

I'm absolutely not saying his hands are clean.  But I could certainly understand if he resents the double standard.   What say you?

Franken should have kept his cool and resigned gracefully. His petulant speech can lead one to the conclusion he is a manipulative dirtbag. He did himself no favours by his speech.

Conservatives do not make any pretense about being colour-blind, feminist, gay-positive, etc. They get elected because they are conservatives, not liberals. If they are racist, sexist, and homophobic, that is what they are expected to be.

It is not acceptable for someone on the left-liberal side to be racist, sexist, homophobic, etc., because it is a major principle of the left-liberal side of things not to be racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.

So-called left-liberals like Al Franken cannot decry a "double standard", because by definition standards are not the same for the left-liberals and the conservatives. 

If Al Franken wants to grope women and have a political career, he can always join the Republican Party.

I am sure there are many progressive politicians who do not have several accusations of sexual impropriety levelled against them.

You are expected to walk the walk if you are going to talk the talk.

Or is Franken's political career more important than the testimony of his victims?

josh wrote:

No, it's a matter of the punishment fitting the crime.

There are eight women claiming sexual misconduct. Notice, not criminal behavior, just inappropriate. Let us imagine that instead of eight women we had eight black men claiming that he made racist comments towards them, say called one of them "boy" called another one "niggerly" (in joking) for not picking up the cheque, told another one the descendents of slaves should be grateful they were brought to America because look at Africa. Would that be cause to resign?

From 6079_Smith_W:

They don't have to all be true, Rev. Only enough of them have to be, and once it gets to more than one or two the writing is kind of on the wall.

How do you know any of them are true?

And let's be clear about this. The photograph did not show Al Franken 'groping' Leann Tweeden. If he had wanted to touch her breasts, his hands would have had to be under the flak jacket she was wearing. In fact, his hands weren't even touching the flak jacket.

As far as the other complaints, we have counter evidence of Franken's behaviour from the women who worked with him:

Three dozen women who worked with Al Franken on “Saturday Night Live” — including original cast members Laraine Newman and Jane Curtin — penned a letter saying they were “compelled to stand up” for the Democratic senator after accusations surfaced that he sexually groped two women.

“In our experience, we know Al as a devoted and dedicated family man, a wonderful comedic performer, and an honorable public servant,” said the letter signed by 36 female members of the NBC show’s cast and crew. “That is why we are moved to quickly and directly affirm that after years of working with him, we would like to acknowledge that not one of us ever experienced any inappropriate behavior; and mention our sincere appreciation that he treated each of us with the utmost respect and regard. ”

​Now, that just doesn't sound like a guy who supposedly tells some women his groping is his 'right as an entertainer'. As I suggested further up thread, the Democratic caucus could have suspended him, investgated the allegations, and made a decision.

What they chose to do instead was demand his resignation.

I look forward to the women of the Democratic caucus joining with the women of the Republican caucus in demanding the resignation of Donald Trump. But I'm not holding my breath.

He asked for the investigation, but that wasn't good enough for his party.

Baloney.  He was all ready for it until a bunch of his fellow senators panicked and made it politically impossible for him to carry on.

Another Al Franken story:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10212992188373156&id=1045201821&comment_id=143760499611883&notif_t=comment_mention&notif_id=1513107319588951&ref=m_notif

That’s just factually incorrect.  He admitted some and denied others.  The issue I keep coming back to is did the punishment fit the crime.  I believe it did not.  And Franken did not do this willingly.  Had other Democrats not called on him to resign, he would not have.

dp

Pondering wrote:

josh wrote:

No, it's a matter of the punishment fitting the crime.

There are eight women claiming sexual misconduct. Notice, not criminal behavior, just inappropriate. Let us imagine that instead of eight women we had eight black men claiming that he made racist comments towards them, say called one of them "boy" called another one "niggerly" (in joking) for not picking up the cheque, told another one the descendents of slaves should be grateful they were brought to America because look at Africa. Would that be cause to resign?

Just to clarify, but the synonym for "stingy" is spelled and pronounced "niggardly". And it has no connection to the infamous racial slur(not that you were saying it did). Still isn't a word I would use these days, for fear of being misunderstood.

voice of the damned wrote:

Just to clarify, but the synonym for "stingy" is spelled and pronounced "niggardly". And it has no connection to the infamous racial slur(not that you were saying it did). Still isn't a word I would use these days, for fear of being misunderstood.

Thank-you and agreed, I would fear being misunderstood and it's an unnecessary word.

Josh, I sympathize with your perspective. He was pressured. He is still a very well-known respected and powerful white male. He could have held his ground. He chose not to. I don't blame him for choosing to withdraw as he has. I believe he believes it was the right thing to do.

It does not matter that he wasn't actually touching her breasts in the photo or that there was clothing between his hands and her breasts. Certainly that would have been worse but it doesn't make the act okay that it wasn't the case. I do believe that he was pushing to rehearse the kiss in the scene they were to play but that he saw it as flirtateous and a come on not as inappropriate and certainly not illegal.

Bottomline is that he resigned. Yes he was preasured to but it was still his choice. He is extremely articulate. He could have used his speech to explain why he wasn't resigning and would cooperate with an investigation. I particularly didn't appreciate his pointing fingers at the Republican side as though as long as they did worse he shouldn't be faulted.

Rev Pesky wrote:

From pondering:

powerful white male.

​In what way was Franken 'powerful'?

And by the way, it wasn't just 'clothing' between Franken's hands and Tweeden's breasts, it was a flak jacket, a piece of clothing, if you will, designed to protect the wearer from a significant explosion and flying pieces of whatever it was that exploded. It is, in fact, armour. I doubt very much you could feel anything through that jacket, from either side.

As to his being a poweful white male, are you kidding me? A famous white comedian?  As to what she was wearing, it doesn't matter. Why did he put his hands in front of her breasts as opposed to a different part of her body? Could it be because they are considered sexual and it's sooooooooo funny to pretend you are touching the breasts of a woman who is not conscious to object and to get a picture of it.

voice of the damned wrote:

Pondering wrote:

josh wrote:

No, it's a matter of the punishment fitting the crime.

There are eight women claiming sexual misconduct. Notice, not criminal behavior, just inappropriate. Let us imagine that instead of eight women we had eight black men claiming that he made racist comments towards them, say called one of them "boy" called another one "niggerly" (in joking) for not picking up the cheque, told another one the descendents of slaves should be grateful they were brought to America because look at Africa. Would that be cause to resign?

Just to clarify, but the synonym for "stingy" is spelled and pronounced "niggardly". And it has no connection to the infamous racial slur(not that you were saying it did). Still isn't a word I would use these days, for fear of being misunderstood.

Thanks for the correction. I always appreciate the opportunity to learn.

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In what way is a comedian powerful?

Well, the power doesn't come from being a comedian -- a lot of them are hot messes -- but from being a white male.

Rest assured, if a black comedian had done the same, he'd be starting the first year of his 200 year sentence.

What is an ass-usa-tion?

Several senators urge Franken to reconsider:

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/365394-four-senators-urge-franken-to-reconsider-resignation-report

Rev Pesky wrote:

Just to clarify for the sake of Pondering. A white male comedian, a black male comedian, famous or not famous, has zero power.

Well, perhaps that's a bit strong. A comedian has exactly as much power as is granted by any indvidual dealing with the comedian. In the pantheon of the Hollywood stars, the comics would be at the bottom; maybe musicians are a bit lower.

Okay so clearly you think money, sex and colour have nothing to do with power. I'm not going to bother arguing that with you I'm just surprised you are on this site.

Apparently you disagree with Al Franken who issued this apology:

"For instance, that picture. I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate. It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it—women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me.

Or maybe you think he was lying when he issued his apology?

In my view this is political theatre and there are no principles involved that one can refer to declare what Franken should or shouldn't have done in response to these allegations.    The DNC is setting their standard, and Franken is the prime example.    I don't see anything sincere or admirable in Franken's apologies or the DNC's actions here.    They are quibbling about timing.   The plan is, I think it's pretty clear, that the men accused will apologize, recuse themselves from public life for a bit, and then come back having "reflected on their actions" and declare they have seen the light.   We haven't seen the last of Franken, or Louis CK, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Matt Lauer back again in some capacity, perhaps on a different network, next year.