North Korea

Trump could make a deal with Kim. Denuclearization for a strong non-aggression treaty and help removing the nukes.  Kim and Moon want an end to the war. Korea could very well be a model for other nuclear states. Denuking the world will need examples like this.

Trump could make a deal with Kim. Denuclearization for a strong non-aggression treaty and help removing the nukes.  Kim and Moon want an end to the war. Korea could very well be a model for other nuclear states. Deenuking the world will need examples like this.

A Nobel Peace Prize for the pair.

Michael Moriarity wrote:

 

Of course I would be happy to see such an outcome, but what makes you think that the clownish Trump could succeed in this when the much more sophisticated Clinton and Obama failed? Do you think he is more sincerely motivated to find a solution than they were? It seems to be a difficult problem. What other difficult problems has Trump ever solved in his life?

This...

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what makes you think the Korean conflict must have an American to resolve?

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From what I have read today, the US forces would probably have to go for any serious peace deal.

Korean Peninsula in Historic Peace Talks - Thanks to Activists, Not Trump

quote:

Well, now that all appears to be changing. South Korean officials confirmed this week that they are in talks with North Korean officials and are considering drafting a peace treaty for the first time. Joining us to discuss this historic development is Simone Chun. Simone has taught at Northeastern University, and served as an associate in research at Harvard University's Korean center, Korea Institute. She is an active member of the Korea Peace Network and is on the steering committee of the Alliance of Scholars Concerned About Korea. Thanks for joining us , Simone.

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SIMONE CHUN:

Nevertheless, I must point out that the real major issue is that relations between the United States and North Korea still, because the reason why there has, there has been no peace treaty has been the United States sort of, has opposition to this major, major, making permanent peace on the Korean peninsula. So what two Koreas trying to do right now is to remove that barrier, that hindrance, and having the very first sort of steps toward that peace treaty. That means that are going to have a political declaration that says, you know, although South Korea is not, was not part of that, that armistice signed in 1953, as you recall the armistice was signed between, among North Korea, China, and the United States. So in order for the real peace treaty to be signed, the signatories of those two nations should come to agreement. Signatures of armistice should come to table a make a final declaration to end the war.

But in order for that to happen, both Korea have now made it an initiative to make a step by step approach. First, a political declaration of the two Koreas ending the enmity. And the second step will most likely be either 3-way or 4-way a political declaration among the United States and two Koreas, and possibly China. And eventually the peace treaty. And what that means is that finally we will have basically the three pillars of a permanent peace regime. Obviously if it's successful for political diplomatic normalization between two Koreas. And also most importantly United States and North Korea, and United States having embassy in Pyongyang, possibly. And the second will be that, you know, really normalization process, interaction, engagement in all levels, economic, social, political, cultural levels between two Koreas, and of North Korea with the other, rest of the world. And thirdly we also want it to address, you know, one of the second, another very important barrier, that is lifting economic sanctions, the harshest, the most oppressive U.N.-led and U.S.-led economic sanctions against the people in North Korea that are really preventing North Koreas to develop its economy, and also causing all kinds of humanitarian consequences. 

I'm sure a US/UN withdrawal would be done in increments attached to certain events happening according to any treaty that is drawn up and ratified. You do realize there is only on combat brigade on the ground in South Korea now right?

CrossTalk: Korean Peace Blitz? (and vid)

https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/425049-korean-peninsula-peace-issue/

"Is peace coming to the Korean peninsula? The foreign policy Blob and corporatist media are less enthusiastic. After all, conflict is their business model."

drift...from democracy now headlines

Japan: Okinawans Protest Construction of U.S. Military Base

In Okinawa, Japan, hundreds of protesters are in the midst of a week-long demonstration against the construction of a massive new U.S. Marine Corps base. On Wednesday, riot police moved in to arrest scores of people as they held a nonviolent sit-in protest at the gates of Marine Corps Camp Schwab. Activists in about 80 canoes and boats also held a protest offshore. Okinawan peace activists have fought for decades for the expulsion of U.S. troops from their island.....end drift

NDPP wrote:

 

"We don't want a unified Korean peninsula..." - Hillary Clinton in a private paid speech to Goldman Sachs.

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/852173290789580800

Her sentence immediately before that is "Well, I think their traditional policy is close to what you've described", which makes it seem as if what follows is meant to be an encapsulation of someone else's thinking. And she says that the reason "we" don't want a unified Korea is beccause it would be dominated by South Korea.  

Then, in the next paragraph, she says that "So we've got a pretty good thing going with the previous North Korean leaders." The Americans thought they "had a good thing going" with Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il?

Following that, she describes the new leader insulting the Chinese and "standing against" "not only the South Koreans and the Japanese and the Americans, but also the Chinese."

So, going by wikileaks interpretation of the above(ie. "we" means the US), one would have to assume that the US liked it when North Korea was opposed to the US, South Korea, and Japan, but became unhappy when North Korea turned against China.

The Korea Times, possibly just following wikileaks, did seem to interpret the comments the same way as they did, but they also include the question, which makes it sound like she's very much describing what she thinks China's view is...

"China doesn't want to unify Korea, but they can't really like a nutty nuclear power on their border. What are their interests and what are they going to help us do?" asks CEO Lloyd Blankfein.

Clinton replies, "We don't want a unified Korean peninsula, because if there were one South Korea it would be dominant for the obvious economic and political reasons."

And that quote omits her opening line about "their traditional policy".

https://tinyurl.com/ybf9prgo

EDIT: Corrected pronoun in the "unified Korean peninsula" quote, first paragraph. Basic point still stands that "we", read in context, likely means China.

progressive17 wrote:

I heard that China has forced this activity by following through on an export embargo on North Korea, which has made the latter feel the pinch.

It was nonetheless very good to see the two leaders together.

I agree and disagree. 

After the two halves of Korea, China is the most important player. 

China is also the greatest force for peace in the world right now and they have the best statesman the world has to offer, Xi Jin Ping!

but the US is a bully imperialist state. They only understand big bombs and death. North Korea’s new Satan 2 like icbm and hydrogen bombs made these peace talks happen. And I believe China with Russia helped North Korea with it. 

Yes, the complete declaration document was also contained in my previous posting #566, but worth restating in case it was missed. Unfortunately, as  that posting also makes clear, 'We've been here before.'

Imposed Divide - A documentary by Ana Parampil

https://on.rt.com/948c

"As the world applauds the landmark deal between Pyongyang and Seoul aimed at longstanding tensions, RT looks back at how the nation became split and who aided the divide of the country..."

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Just as I previously believed the goal here appears to reunify Korea back to one country.

That would be fascinating.  And I support them if they really want to do it.  But they're kind of like an organism whose population diverges geographically, and then much later have locally evolved to where they can no longer reproduce together.  In other words, how would one merge the political and social systems of SK and DPRK to everyone's satisfaction, at this point?

That said, there's clearly no good reason why they can't get along, or increase trade, immigration, or even politics between each other.  Nobody's expecting North Dakota and South Dakota to finally merge into a reunified "Dakota", after all.

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..a solid case is made in this video that this victory was brought about by the korean people and the peace activists.

Donald Trump would disagree, but I wouldn't.  That said, lots of peace talks end with handshakes, but no lasting peace.

I think China really wants DPRK to denuclearize, and I have heard they have been putting the squeeze on energy exports to DPRK. DPRK is talking about dismantling their nuclear weapons program, which will probably make the imports from China resume. That has to be the start. Of course Trump will take credit for that, but China will get the benefit.

The next step is ending the state of war between the DPRK and South Korea. They do not have to reunify for that to happen. However if it does, there could be more Korean family reunification and cultural ties, and a gradual de-escalation of the DMZ. Perhaps even business investment by the very rich South Korea into the DPRK.

And yes, I agree, it is not going to happen overnight. We have seen false starts before, as a friend pointed out to me.

Watching CCTV4 news the other day and they’re all over the upcoming meeting between Trump and Kim Jong-un. 

Recently Chinese diplomat Wang Yi and Kim had a face to face meeting but the Chinese news say this meeting had nothing to do with Trump or the Korean peace treaty?  I find that odd. 

Also Trump will be nominated for a nobel peace prize? Also fucking odd???

Because the white guy deserves the peace prize before any Koreans in regards to the Korean conflict. But I will say this, if the US pulls their forces out, and the peace treaty goes through, Trump would have actually done something for a nobel peace prize, as opposed to Barack. 

Another interesting point from Chinese news，the peace treaty wouldn’t require the pull out of US troops. This again I found odd and either two things are going on.  I misinterpreted or the Chinese are pushing way to hard and are unrealistic about Koreans peace. 

However the US secretary of defence says it’s a possibility. 

Either way, this probably has to be the most best dialogue towards Korean peace in my lifetime!

And not just Korean peace now seems possible in the region...

Xi Talks With S Korean, Japanese Leaders on Relations

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1100774.shtml

"Chinese President Xi Jinping spoke on the phone with South Korean President Moon Jae-in and Japanese PM Shinzo Abe on Friday on boosting ties with these two countries..."

Another interesting point from Chinese news，the peace treaty wouldn’t require the pull out of US troops.

Moon Jae-in has said the same thing in South Korea in the past few days, after one of his advisers wrote a piece in Foreign Policy magazine saying that the troops should probably leave in the event of a peace treaty.

Which position would ultimately hold sway, I don't know. But Moon is also likely thinking that announcing he supports the withdrawl of troops would give the right-wing one more thing to yell about during the negotiations.

I feel fairly confident in saying that if Trump can pull the strings on the US side and withdraw troops and see a solid peace treaty with all the bells an whistles

The NYT has reported that Trump ordered the Pentagon to "prepare options for drawing down American troops in South Korea". This is being denied by the government of South Korea, claiming some unnamed White House official as a source.

There's also various theories as to why Trump would do this, eg. either as a threat to get the ROK to shoulder more of the financial costs of the troops, or as leverage against the North.

https://tinyurl.com/y7vx2os7

NDPP wrote:

And not just Korean peace now seems possible in the region...

Xi Talks With S Korean, Japanese Leaders on Relations

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1100774.shtml

"Chinese President Xi Jinping spoke on the phone with South Korean President Moon Jae-in and Japanese PM Shinzo Abe on Friday on boosting ties with these two countries..."

For one comment I’ll engage in thread drift. 

Xi Jin Ping without a question is probably the greatest force for peace in the world right now!

And he will never get the nobel peace prize. I believe he would be insulted for even being nominated. A white country handing out a peace award that was established by a wealthy person is insulting enough and shows how worthless it really is

..from a democracy now headline

North Korea Frees 3 Americans During Mike Pompeo’s Visit

U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is visiting North Korea today to finalize plans for the proposed meeting between President Trump and North Korea’s leader Kim Jong-un. President Trump says Pompeo will also return to the U.S. with three Americans who have been imprisoned in North Korea: Kim Dong-chul, Kim Hak-song and Tony Kim.

This from the DPRK FM:

https://twitter.com/RYongHo/status/994923351771701249

"Rumors abound in global intelligence circles that earth-shattering developments about to drop in Washington DC. DPRK wish to state unequivocally we have no involvement and never interfere in domestic politics of [any] other country."

DPRK had better hang on to its nukes. The Americans are not to be trusted to keep agreements. Iran is only the latest of its 'broken treaties'. 

Japan, China and South Korea Hold Talks on North Korea and Trade

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/05/11/asia-m11.html

"Wednesday's summit allowed the three countries to feel one another out, while asserting their individual interests. However, the major concern is the upcoming summit between North Korea's Kim Jong-un and the US's Donald Trump. There is no guarantee the Trump-Kim summit will take place. There is no guarantee anything will come out of the Trump-Kim summit other than a direct ultimatum for Pyongyang to give in to all US demands..."

CrossTalk on North Korea: Summit or no summit?

https://youtu.be/Njh66Fm4U1c

"Summit or no summit - that is the question..."

Hi NDPP. Thanks for posting these links. Now I'll give my position on them.

Basically, these are for the most part white racist/colonialist views. And in Korea, like Vietnam, the white coloniast man lost.

No peace treaty hangs on the edge by the white coloniast man. Not anywhere where a non European country is involved anyways.

I think what's going on here is that Trump, is trying to work it so that it looks like the white man is winning in all of this. Not an easy task faced with the blatant facts.

As is right now, the world is moving beyond the US. Just like the Iran deal. The only loser is the US. And they are falling behind. Korea, China Japan and Russia will move ahead together embracing peace openess and trade. And after that other Asia Pacific countries will join in together (such as Singapore Malaysia Thailand Vietnam Indonesia etc etc)

To give any merit to the belief that the US can derail the willingness and unstoppable peace is plain racist.

I should also point out that some other Pacific countries willing to join in future trade with North Korea may be Australia and New Zealand.

Just like when European/NATO countries started cranking the thumb screws down hard tight on the US over balking on the Iran deal, Australia and New Zealand are in a position to make the US look very foolish over North Korea!

WWWTT wrote:

Korea, China Japan and Russia will move ahead together embracing peace openess and trade.

I dunno. When the South Koreans announced at the summit dinner that Trump was eating seafood from Dokdo, and then had him doing the photo-op with the comfort-woman, it didn't strike me as an attempt at pursuing peace and harmony with Japan while telling the US to butt out.

 https://tinyurl.com/y7zxzayh