Ontario Election June 7, 2018

Mon, 2018-05-28 15:17

Ken Burch

[quote=NorthReport]

Andrea needs to basically ignore the Liberals and keep the attack on Doug Ford front and centre until voting day. The more voters see of him the more they will be turned off voting for him. Ford's event this morning says it all. The Doug Ford brand is seriously slipping so Ford is being forced to bring in reinforcements in a desperate attempt to stop the slippage.

They could use this as the music in the ads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1RSaUJVTqI

(just run pictures of Rob and quotes from his speeches with the part that comes in at :59)

Mon, 2018-05-28 15:18

(Reply to #602) #603

Sean in Ottawa

Ken Burch wrote:

Mighty Middle wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

Remember, Wynne was repeatedly re-elected in years when the voters knew what her sexual orientation was.

Social media wasn't what it was back then.

Social media was just the same in 2014. In any case, the swing from the OLP to the ONDP had nothing to do with the homophobic attacks on Wynne from the right. The ONDP is just as pro-LGBTQ as the OLP, if not more so.

I think many attacks on Wynne have been both sexist and homophobic coming from the right. This existed in 2014 as well. The issue is that she lost the support of the left as well.

One of the problems with this is that it is difficult to sort homophobic, sexist and racist responses from rejections for other reasons. It is also true that when this happens everyone gets dirty. I do not think that it is very helpful to pretend that this is not a factor although it is uncomfortable for each person opposing a victim of these attacks to constantly have to say this is not the reason for my opposition to this person. This is the poison of these attacks -- it is difficult to sort them with confidence. It makes the victim wonder, it makes other poeple both for them and against them wonder. It makes people who are against them get embarassed even when it is not the source for their opposition.

Racism, sexism and homophobia are that poisonous.

And as much as I dislike Wynne for what she has done, I cannot deny that she is a victim of homophobia and sexism. I think we have to notice this in those we oppose as well as those we support if we want to oppose this behaviour.

Mon, 2018-05-28 15:22

(Reply to #603) #604

Mighty Middle

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

You were accusing a poster here of being on-side with homophobic attacks. I called you a jerk. Deal.

Reap what you sow.

When I was dicussing the misogyny against Kathleen Wynne he wrote

Pogo wrote:

Personally I am getting some satisfaction out MM's antics. Usually it is the NDP supporters making lame excuses for pitiful results. It is nice to see that others are poor losers also.

That is how someone responds to a post about homophobic misogyny against a female politician? You really want to defend that?

And discussing misogyny against women is not trolling.

Mon, 2018-05-28 15:24

#605

Ken Burch

OK, I can accept that Wynne is a victim of homophobia and sexism. That, however, does not mean the ONDP surge was caused by homophobia and sexism. And it's absurd to imply that voters would be switching to Horwath because she happens to be heterosexual.

Mon, 2018-05-28 15:25

#606

NorthReport

Someone seemed terrified to release his platform, eh!

Doug Ford says a fully costed PC platform is coming — but won’t say when

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/05/28/doug-ford-says-a-full...

Mon, 2018-05-28 15:30

(Reply to #606) #607

Mighty Middle

Ken Burch wrote:

OK, I can accept that Wynne is a victim of homophobia and sexism. That, however, does not mean the ONDP surge was caused by homophobia and sexism. And it's absurd to imply that voters would be switching to Horwath because she happens to be heterosexual.

I never said that the ONDP surge was caused by homophobia and sexism. What I said was they are riding a wave of anger at Wynne, which (in part) has been accumilated by three years of non-stop vitriol, attacks and misogyny at her by 3rd party conservative groups, alt-right, right wing fringe.

Mon, 2018-05-28 15:32

(Reply to #607) #608

Sean in Ottawa

Mighty Middle wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

You were accusing a poster here of being on-side with homophobic attacks. I called you a jerk. Deal.

Reap what you sow.

When I was dicussing the misogyny against Kathleen Wynne he wrote

Pogo wrote:

Personally I am getting some satisfaction out MM's antics. Usually it is the NDP supporters making lame excuses for pitiful results. It is nice to see that others are poor losers also.

That is how someone responds to a post about homophobic misogyny against a female politician? You really want to defend that?

And discussing misogyny against women is not trolling.

Hey Trying lie here is a problem since I quoted your post that I called you a jerk about:

"At least you are being honest about you having no problems about the homophobic Misogynic vitriol against Kathleen Wynne by groups like Ontario Proud and Readers of Toronto Sun.... So if course if you are fine with Wynne being the recipient of this, you should equally fine with Horwath getting the same treatment. But I don't think ANY female politician, regardless of political stripe should endure this type of sexist, Misogynic abuse on social media. Unlike you."

Let's be really clear: I think calling you a jerk for writing this is extremely mild. This is what a Jerk would say.

I think you are being a troll to misrepresent the reason I called you a jerk since that is what Trolls do.

This poster calling you out did not justify your attack which was a personal attack on Pogo far more than any you have suffered here. You are getting a lot of bad reactions for what you are doing and confusing them with personal attacks even as you make personal attacks against others.

Mon, 2018-05-28 15:36

#609

NorthReport

Good!

Ontario NDP leader Andrea Horwath makes stop in Guelph Monday

Local candidate Mlynarz gets a boost with noon hour visit from the boss

https://www.guelphtoday.com/local-news/ontario-ndp-leader-andrea-horwath...

Mon, 2018-05-28 15:50

(Reply to #609) #610

Mighty Middle

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Let's be really clear: I think calling you a jerk for writing this is extremely mild. This is what a Jerk would say.

I think you are being a troll to misrepresent the reason I called you a jerk since that is what Trolls do.

And calling people jerks on this board is against rules.

Mon, 2018-05-28 16:14

#611

NorthReport

Doug Ford hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt on his nomination scandal

The leader of the Ontario PCs has blustered his way through political rough patches before. We shouldn’t let him do it this time.

https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/doug-ford-hasnt-earned-the-benefit-of-th...

Mon, 2018-05-28 17:06

(Reply to #611) #612

Ken Burch

Mighty Middle wrote:

Pogo wrote:

Keep throwing shit at the wall. Someday something might stick.

At least you are being honest about you having no problems about the homophobic Misogynic vitriol against Kathleen Wynne by groups like Ontario Proud and Readers of Toronto Sun.

Meanwhile these same groups are turning their attacks of misogyny against Andrea Horwath now that she is leading in the polls. So if course if you are fine with Wynne being the recipient of this, you should equally fine with Horwath getting the same treatment.

But I don't think ANY female politician, regardless of political stripe should endure this type of sexist, Misogynic abuse on social media.

Unlike you.

Unlike no one. NOBODY here disagrees with you on the assertion that "But I don't think ANY female politician, regardless of political stripe should endure this type of sexist, Misogynic abuse on social media". We ALL condemn that on Babble. It's just that it's possible to acknowledge that Wynne did suffer such abuse, AND CONDEMN IT, AS WE ALL DO, and still reject your insinuation that the ONDP surge in the polls is connected with that. The ONDP would be doing just as well in the polls right now if it IT was led by an LGBTQ person.

Homophobia against Wynne doesn't delegitimize the ONDP gains in support, and has no connections to those gains. OK?

Mon, 2018-05-28 17:07

(Reply to #612) #613

Ken Burch

Mighty Middle wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Let's be really clear: I think calling you a jerk for writing this is extremely mild. This is what a Jerk would say.

I think you are being a troll to misrepresent the reason I called you a jerk since that is what Trolls do.

And calling people jerks on this board is against rules.

Pretty sure that implying that others here are ok with homophobia when you know they are not is ALSO against forum rules. It's a personal attack to lie about the views of other posters.

Mon, 2018-05-28 17:45

(Reply to #613) #614

Sean in Ottawa

Mighty Middle wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Let's be really clear: I think calling you a jerk for writing this is extremely mild. This is what a Jerk would say.

I think you are being a troll to misrepresent the reason I called you a jerk since that is what Trolls do.

And calling people jerks on this board is against rules.

Calling a person what they are acting like is not worse than acting like it in the first place.

Mon, 2018-05-28 17:51

#615

NorthReport

There’s good reason Tory Leader Andrew Scheer is keeping his distance from Doug Ford

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/05/28/theres-good-r...

Mon, 2018-05-28 18:02

#616

Pogo

Thanks Sean for your responses. While I am far from a perfect human being, I think that MM's description of my posts is so over the top that if people see that in me then there is little I can do.

Mon, 2018-05-28 18:27

#617

NorthReport

Ford: Call up people who make $450,000 per year and ask them which party they want running hospitals.

https://twitter.com/TheBeaverton/status/1000888446838288385

Mon, 2018-05-28 18:39

#618

NorthReport

If the PCs lose how long will Ford last as leader?

Would he have to give notice to resign election nite?

Mon, 2018-05-28 18:47

#619

NorthReport

10 days from election day, former @OntarioPCParty leader @brownbarrie says @fordnation is squandering the lead he had when the campaign kicked off.

https://twitter.com/PnPCBC/status/1001209159285538817

Mon, 2018-05-28 18:52

#620

NorthReport

Caroline Mulroney said, in French, that Ford's costed platform would be revealed AFTER the election, then gave a different answer in English #noplatformhere https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/05/28/doug-ford-says-a-fully-costed-pc-platform-is-coming-but-wont-say-when.html …

https://twitter.com/bowker_john/status/1001202150813327360

Mon, 2018-05-28 18:55

#621

NorthReport

There is one person in Ontario who wants the PCs to lose, probably more than anyone else, and that's Patrick Brown.

Mon, 2018-05-28 18:59

#622

NorthReport

The economic price of electing Doug Ford

Doug Ford is potentially far more damaging than his younger brother, simply because Ontario’s premier has far more power than Toronto’s mayor. From what we have already heard and seen, Mr. Ford’s populist policies will hit hard at the pillars of the province’s economic prosperity. To mollify his base, Mr. Ford will have every incentive to undermine the “elite” institutions on which Toronto’s and the province’s success depend. In the United States, populist politicians have slashed funding for public-research universities, which sit at the heart of innovation. One can expect Mr. Ford to do the same, inflicting real pain both on great universities such as the University of Toronto, the University of Waterloo, Queen’s, Western, McMaster and on the knowledge economy for which they serve as key hubs. The province could wind up like an American Red State, which disinvests in the key pillars of its knowledge economy and undermines its own economic advantage.

Instead of a tech-enabled, cutting-edge community on the waterfront, expect a return to the days of Ferris wheels and spectacle malls. As mayor, Rob Ford hindered Toronto’s urbanization by threatening to eradicate bike lanes, build downtown casinos and eliminate light rail transit. Efforts to build a denser, less congested region will also be halted as Doug Ford rekindles the debate over the war-on-the car that sits at the core of Ford Nation’s appeal. To pay for his much-ballyhooed tax cuts, Doug Ford will likely tear apart Ontario’s vaunted social safety net, ushering in even more polarized and toxic politics and undermining the province’s image as a less divided and more enlightened place than the United States.

Mr. Ford’s divisive rhetoric – which identifies techies, knowledge workers, innovators, entrepreneurs and city-builders as self-aggrandizing “elites” who “look down on the average, common folk” and stresses that the province should “take care of its own first” before opening jobs and economic opportunity to immigrants – will send a strong signal that Ontario is no longer a welcoming place to talented and hard-working people from abroad.

Given the prevailing political winds in Canada and around the world, it’s not surprising that many Ontarians want change. But that is no reason to repeat our southern neighbours’ electoral tantrum by handing the reins to a fiery populist who threatens to undermine our long-term competitiveness and the short-term advantage Mr. Trump has handed us.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-ontarians-want-change-bu...

Mon, 2018-05-28 19:33

#623

NorthReport

One party is all sorry, not sorry. Another is platform, not platform. #onpoli

https://twitter.com/robertbenzie/status/1001232005114351617

Mon, 2018-05-28 20:33

(Reply to #623) #624

JKR

NorthReport wrote:

If the PCs lose how long will Ford last as leader?

A picosecond?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picosecond

Quote:
A picosecond is an SI unit of time equal to 10−12 or 1/1,000,000,000,000 (one trillionth) of a second. That is one trillionth, or one millionth of one millionth of a second, or 0.000 000 000 001 seconds. A picosecond is to one second as one second is to approximately 31,689 years.

Mon, 2018-05-28 20:55

#625

NorthReport

About the same amount of time as for Wynne perhaps.

Mon, 2018-05-28 21:02

#626

NorthReport

Liberal ridiculousness is handy cover for NDP's extreme position on labour rights

Ontarians know what teachers strikes, transit strikes, garbage strikes look and feel like. Centrists might well think twice about voting for a party that promises in advance never to ease that pain

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/chris-selley-liberal-ridiculousness-is-h...

Mon, 2018-05-28 21:14

#627

NorthReport

What does this tell you?

https://twitter.com/davidakin/status/1001262136293703680

https://twitter.com/davidakin/status/1001261533060460544

Mon, 2018-05-28 21:22

#628

NorthReport

https://twitter.com/Tom_Parkin_?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7...

Mon, 2018-05-28 21:29

#629

NorthReport

I hope people are paying attention who they are voting for.

https://pressprogress.ca/ontario-pc-candidate-promoted-alt-right-website...

Mon, 2018-05-28 21:38

(Reply to #629) #630

Ciabatta2

NorthReport wrote:

What does this tell you?

https://twitter.com/davidakin/status/1001262136293703680

https://twitter.com/davidakin/status/1001261533060460544

That they're stopping in Stratford because its on the way in Chatham and said stop will show strength and gumption and momentum even if P-W is the riding of those four that the NDP won't win.

Mon, 2018-05-28 22:02

(Reply to #630) #631

JKR

NorthReport wrote:

About the same amount of time as for Wynne perhaps.

Wynne's time is already up.

Mon, 2018-05-28 22:14

#632

NorthReport

How is that 407 police investigation doing, eh!

Mon, 2018-05-28 22:17

#633

Misfit

What bothers me about this election is that many of the people voting in NDP or no to doing it necessarily because they like the NDP but rather they're voting against the other two.

Mon, 2018-05-28 22:31

(Reply to #633) #634

Michael Moriarity

Misfit wrote:

What bothers me about this election is that many of the people voting in NDP or no to doing it necessarily because they like the NDP but rather they're voting against the other two.

In sports, they call that "winning ugly". The important things are what policies will be enacted by the next government.

Mon, 2018-05-28 22:36

(Reply to #634) #635

Mighty Middle

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Mighty Middle wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Let's be really clear: I think calling you a jerk for writing this is extremely mild. This is what a Jerk would say.

I think you are being a troll to misrepresent the reason I called you a jerk since that is what Trolls do.

And calling people jerks on this board is against rules.

Calling a person what they are acting like is not worse than acting like it in the first place.

and you just opened the door a crack

Mon, 2018-05-28 23:44

(Reply to #635) #636

Mighty Middle

Pogo wrote:

Thanks Sean for your responses. While I am far from a perfect human being, I think that MM's description of my posts is so over the top that if people see that in me then there is little I can do.

Amen.

Mon, 2018-05-28 22:40

#637

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Don't worry about people voting for your party out of hate for the others. If people are voting for the NDP because they are not the Liberals and the Conservatives, then the NDP will have a mandate to govern not like the Liberals and the Conservatives. Which is the whole idea, amirite?

Mon, 2018-05-28 23:16

#638

NorthReport

Tea leaves not looking great for Mr Ford

https://mobile.twitter.com/Dleebosh/status/1001288109198364674

Tue, 2018-05-29 02:24

(Reply to #638) #639

bekayne

NorthReport wrote:

Caroline Mulroney said, in French, that Ford's costed platform would be revealed AFTER the election, then gave a different answer in English #noplatformhere https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/05/28/doug-ford-says-a-fully-costed-pc-platform-is-coming-but-wont-say-when.html …

https://twitter.com/bowker_john/status/1001202150813327360

She's a Mulroney alright.

Tue, 2018-05-29 08:04

#640

josh

I guess the question in this election will come down to whether the Liberals want to be responsible for electing Doug Ford.

Tue, 2018-05-29 09:21

(Reply to #640) #641

Mighty Middle

josh wrote:

I guess the question in this election will come down to whether the Liberals want to be responsible for electing Doug Ford.

Are you talking about the potential for a vote split?

Tue, 2018-05-29 09:22

#642

josh

Yes.

Tue, 2018-05-29 09:22

#643

Mighty Middle

To appeal to women Doug Ford trots out Christine Elliot, Caroline Mulroney and Lisa McLeod as women who will be in a Ford cabinet.

But all of them admitted they have not seen a costed platform yet.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1404531

Tue, 2018-05-29 09:24

(Reply to #643) #644

Mighty Middle

josh wrote:

Yes.

Well Lead Now is working of developing a list riding by riding as the best candidate to defeat the PC candidate. So it should be out soon.

Tue, 2018-05-29 12:28

#645

NorthReport

Horwath says Ford’s lack of a platform is ‘insulting to voters’

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/05/29/horwath-says-fords-lack-o...

Tue, 2018-05-29 14:55

#646

NorthReport

Beleaguered Wynne joins Ford on anti-NDP bandwagon, warning Andrea Horwath’s party would be bad for business

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/05/29/wynne-pledges-to-pump...

Tue, 2018-05-29 15:10

(Reply to #646) #647

Sean in Ottawa

Misfit wrote:

What bothers me about this election is that many of the people voting in NDP or no to doing it necessarily because they like the NDP but rather they're voting against the other two.

Just like most voters for most parties in most elections. Your point?