Erin Weir accused of "harassment"

quizzical wrote:

Misfit wrote:

@quiz,

the link to your article you are seeking is in posts 627, 629, and 630.

i read the articles wanted to read full report robbie refered to but ty for responding.

Quiz are you asking about the NDP’s investigation report or the letter I referenced from mediator/coach Joy Noonan to House of Commons Chief HR Officer Pierre Parent?

I don’t think we will ever see the actual investigation report. The NDP has said it can’t release it due to confidentiality concerns.

Noonan, however, has both read the report and worked with Weir afterward to try to coach him on his behavior. She comments on the report findings as well as her interactions with Weir in her letter to Parent. She is an expert in the field, and since it appears she was paid directly by the HoC (rather than by Weir or by the NDP)  she would presumably have had a relatively neutral perspective. The Noonan letter was linked in the CTV article. If you’re having trouble finding that, here is a direct link: 

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4555077/Letter.pdf

ETA thanks also misfit I didn’t see your last post.

thank you robbie and misfit.

sounds like a whole bunch of shit was thrown at Weir in the hopes some would stick.

looks like the guy has heart to me. hope his voter base sticks by him.

Looks like he is priming the pump for a jump to the Cons in the next election now that the NDP is confident they can take out Trudeau in Ontario and the cons will form government.

This "giving the NDP one last chance" to let him back in, leaves little other room for interpretation. Especially since nothing has changed.

https://www.hilltimes.com/2018/06/25/ontario/149035

I attached the Hill piece entitled " Conservatives and New Democrats claim there’s ‘not a riding in Ontario that’s beyond’ their reach federally in 2019" because it speaks to the tag team strategy of defeating the Trudeau Liberal government which clearly extends beyond Ontario, but as we know, Ontario is pivotal.

With respect to your point about the MLA receiving the nomination. It's a good point. I did not realize they had their nomination. (I don't pay close attention to poli in Saskatchewan). So this does eclipse the notion I forwarded and thanks for pointing it out.

I guess this leaves us in the same spot then. Weir's continued candidacy as an independent "CCF'r" means a vote split and insurance for the Con victory in that riding.

However, that seems a poor departure strategy for Weir and his political career.The liklihood of winning as independent is very small. Which prompted my assertion that he may wish to seek other opportunities. And there are only so many of those. Have the liberals nominated their candidate? (kidding - lol)

I guess  he was hoping the partisan dynamics of restoring his seat in caucus would give the NDP the best shot at keeping the seat, and therefor leadership would reverse their decision. But that too seems impossible. Jagmeet made it clear just today he is confident and proud of his handling of these issues, which suggests re-instatement is not an option.  A leader typically does not reverse a position he is proud of.

Quote: He added that he’s proud of how he handled the harassment allegations that hit his party over the last couple of months.

“Though it’s obviously not something that we wish happened…[it] happened. And what the response has been in the past is kind of to ignore it, or to…brush it under the carpet and not really talk about it, not address it,” Singh said.

“I’ve chosen to say ‘listen, I’m not going to ignore it.’ If something comes to my attention, I’ve got to take action.”

Found here in today's Ipolitics: https://ipolitics.ca/2018/06/25/im-confident-i-can-turn-it-around-jagmee...

Now, on the upside, there is a slim chance he can say he addressed it, the procedure the party adopted while the harrassment cases were unfolding proved reasonable with the potential of minor tweeks to improve it and in the case of Weir he has moved on his own volition to address the issues and this satisfies the leader's desire to see rehabilitive fixes.

So there is a slim chance, given the political dynamic of losing the seat, he will be allowed to run for the NDP in the upcoming election.

Jagmeet Singh, as quoted in article above:

“Though it’s obviously not something that we wish happened…[it] happened. And what the response has been in the past is kind of to ignore it, or to…brush it under the carpet and not really talk about it, not address it,” Singh said.

Would have been interesting to have him give a concrete example of the NDP 'brushing it under the carpet'. Not many leaders slag their own party in order to make themselves look good.

Josh writes: Still waiting, by the way, for the promised release of at least a summary of the report.

Notalib responds: I find this an interesting point. It is all speculation of course, but I imagine due to the nature in which Weir responded, the leadership of the party has decided against releasing details at this time. There could be many reasons for this.  One that concerned me was doing so would hurt Mr Weir even more. That said it does seem that the person whom couched Weir has been privy to the details and suggests that there is nothing more to the file than the rather strange notion of "close talking" and standing. While it is true that peoples boundaries can be violated in this fashion, it seems a harsh response to end a career over it. Which always led me to believe there was more to the allegations. I am not comfortable with speculation, and sadly this file is subsumed by it, but I assume the more Weir pushes for re-instatement, the stronger likelihood of it being released. It could be in fact the tool leadership uses to re-instate Weir given the apparent rehabilitation he has been through. So it could be a win win for all, if in fact the allegations are not as serious as they could be. Which might be a proper ending to this.

Paladin1 wrote:

I agree with Misfit here Pondering.  Even when someone is innocent they should be made aware of who their accuser is so they can begin to mount a defense against the accusations. Anyone who thinks "I'm innocent so it doesn't matter" has never dealt with the court system after being falsely accused of something.

Within the court system there is a need to know and the accused does have a right to know if there will be proceedings against them.

In a non-court situation they don't have that right. If steps are taken against them based on false allegations there is recourse. There are laws against libeling someone particularly if it results in concrete damage to someone's career. 

Pondering writes:

Weir was not expelled from caucus based on the report's findings. He was offered anti-harassment training after which he would be readmitted to caucus. It's lovely that he completed that training and apparently learned from it. He still doesn't seem to understand why he was expelled.

The report validated the complaints in saying there was a disconnect between intent and the negative impact on recipients. The report claims he now understands that his large size and large voice and animated gestures are a problem particularly for women and people in a lessor power position. 

But that is not what Weir said and it isn't why he was expelled. He was expelled for claiming the accusation by the woman who spoke to CBC was baseless and politically motivated, for releasing identifying information about her through his description of the event and for claiming the other accusations would surface no matter who was investigated because they were "solicited".  

If he had a change of heart while talking with the anti-harassment trainer then he needs to retract his statements and apologize to the woman he accused of being politically motivated. He also made accusations against Mulcair and against Angus who remains an important member of caucus. 

Weir chose to make his appeal to the NDP through the media rather than directly. He is either trying to strong arm the NDP or doesn't want back in and is just trying to vindicate himself. If he is trying to strong arm the party that means he would be nothing but trouble if reinstated and has poor political instincts. If he is trying to publically vindicate himself I think he achieved it.

Notalib: Well stated!

Notalib wrote:

Pondering writes:

***

Weir chose to make his appeal to the NDP through the media rather than directly. He is either trying to strong arm the NDP or doesn't want back in and is just trying to vindicate himself. If he is trying to strong arm the party that means he would be nothing but trouble if reinstated and has poor political instincts. If he is trying to publically vindicate himself I think he achieved it.

Notalib: Well stated!

I'm pleased to hear that both Pondering and Notalib agree that Weir has now been "publicly vindicated".

josh wrote:

More like BS.  We've gone over this a million times.  Weir was attacked publically, and responded publically after receiving no response to his internal query.  Notalib has returned to joing Pondering, who has amazing knowledge of a report which the mediator described its charges as "not serious," to once again cruxify Weir while flacking for the NDP "braintrust."

What? We do have access to the letter written by the anti-harassment trainer. It more or less confirms that he did intimidate the women but that it wasn't intentional. In terms of harassment he has been vindicated. 

That is not why he was expelled from caucus. He was expelled for giving identifying information about one of the complainants and accusing her of being politicly motivated due to his position on the carbon tax. Even if he felt he had to respond he didn't have to give out that information and he didn't have to make the accusations he did. 

He hasn't walked back those accusations. He hasn't apologized for making them. That's the "it" he still doesn't get or is ignoring. One or the other. 

The accusations he made can't just be overlooked. 

Wow, just wow.

Excerpt: I met Erin for the first time when I was 14, at a Sask NDP leadership debate. I found him aloof and awkward, but thoughtful and very smart. I had never experienced anything directly from Erin Weir that would be termed harassment.

I still started hearing stories shortly after he was elected to Parliament. Stories that align bizarrely with the report coming out of Ottawa even though I knew they weren’t from complainants. For every woman who spoke up, and put herself through the formal process, there are several more who stayed mostly silent- instead relying on the NDP’s whisper network to keep themselves and others safe. I heard other complaints, too- those describing his office as "a frat house," and women within the party refusing to work with them.

In the summer of 2017, he hired a man, as a summer canvasser, with a history of sexually harassing young women, including me. He is still prominently featured on a YouTube video of Erin Weir going door to door defending SaskTel. In August of that year, that man was in Saskatoon, sent by Team Weir to volunteer on a by-election campaign, and one night he raped me in my apartment.

I didn’t initially blame Weir for the attack, despite pressure to do so. I blamed the party I loved for not having better oversight not to immediately turf someone who should have been well known as a sexual predator- in 2016 and after the provincial election when he began looking for more permanent work with them.

Found here: https://medium.com/@rylee8ann/the-last-ccf-member-of-parliament-a6f69bca628f

Notalib wrote:

 

Looks like he is priming the pump for a jump to the Cons in the next election now that the NDP is confident they can take out Trudeau in Ontario and the cons will form government.

What a callous and horrible thing to say or speculate on. This comment is gutter low and then some.

Erin Weir is a New Democrat. He has the values and principles of a New Democrat.  When he was kicked out of caucus, he decided to sit as a member of the CCF party, a party that was in tune with his values and ideals.

And to switch to the Conservative party???  The Conservatives are the furthest from his ideals and values.

Maybe you are a cheap and shallow opportunist, Notalib, and switching parties for opportunistic gain is an idea that you would personally entertain yourself.  From this comment of  yours, I now know that you obviously do not know Erin Weir.

Voters switch from the NDP to the Conservatives all the time. What is so vile and disgusting about that? It is their right to do so, whether you like it or not. As compassionate people, how can you have a bad attitude toward anyone who might wish to have freedom to choose? If you are surely compassionate, you must know that the failure of people to support your wonderful political party is YOUR FAULT.

josh wrote:

Not sure what this has to do with it if it wasn't the subject of the charges against him.  Other than to muddy his name even further.  There's nothing offered to indicate that he knew about it or condoned it.

Read the entire article. It is about the culture within which Weir's behavior exists not just about Weir. It is why women are exasperated with men who continue to act like these accusations are so shocking. It happens to us all the time. It isn't at all unusual. The "frat house" mentality is not hidden. 

Does it further muddy his name, yes. Should he only be flattered?

Progressive17,

 Yes, there are  voters who do switch from party to party. I am talking about an NDP MP from Saskatchewan which is the birthplace of the CCF/NDP rising to power.

You obviously don't understand Saskatchewan politics. 

And if Erin Weir actually did intend to cross the floor he would have done it already. 

Anyone who thinks that Erin Weir would run for the Conservatives after resurrecting the CCF and sitting in the House of Commons as a member of the CCF party because he claims that the values of the CCF closely identifies with his own personal values is a complete gutter fool!

There was very much a Star Chambers aspect to the whole Erin Weir matter.  There is an accusation of the commission of a wrong but the "wrong" is not detailed.  Weir says the wrong was sitting too close or talking too long to someone - presumably a woman - but this was never clarified by the NDP.   There is a secret complainant and a secret report (did Weir even have full access to the Report) .  The "accused" was essentially denied the right to defend himself - in fact it was his half hearted efforts at defending himself that was the "wrong" that supposedly resulted in his expulsion.  Personally next time around I will not vote for our local NDP MP.  I will probably park my vote with the Greens.  I am not prepared to support a political party that if it gained power would operate the criminal justice system in this manner.

robbie_dee rachel notley is fabulous. her family is adorable. 

i get her and i get the hail mary going on.

i will not be voting ndp in the next federal election though unless the whole situation is is conducted to a better conclusion by the time the house sits this fall. it's bull shitty shit.

he needs his life and integrity back. 

I agree.

I am from Saskatchewan and I heard Pat Atkinson, a former Saskatoon provincial NDP MLA speak with CBC  radio this afternoon, and she was very angry with Jagmeet Singh's decision and was very vocal about it.

I wonder if Erin Weir is very intelligent and brilliant as an economist to the extent that he can dance circles around a lot of  other MPs. It could also be that his ideas are too unpopular with the upper party brass.  I believe that that he promotes ideas which are good for Saskatchewan but run contrary to what the national party wants to promote in order to appeal to their support base. This could be especially true if his ideas make sound sense and can embarrass the party.

Therefore, it is possible that they are using this harassment controversy as a lame excuse to evict him from the party because they just don't like his ideas and him personally.

I'm reposting Unionist's article for simplicity.

Unionist's article...

Sheila Malcomson, NDP MP from Nanaimo, commented on the issue of the letter from former Saskatchewan NDP MPs and MLAs. She said that the female feminist MPs in caucus do not want Erin Weir reinstated.

They did not appreciate him going public with his own defence to the allegations.  She said that you never go the media about in party caucus issues.

The feminist women did not approve of him claiming that the allegations were trumped up.

They did not appreciate him "throwing Charlie Angus and Tom Mulcair under the bus" with his conspiracy theories.

They also don't believe that he has sincerely acknowledged what he had done.

I guess that Erin Weir had made a lot of enemies in caucus and they don't want him back.

i wonder if Pat Atkinson ever talked to Sheri Benson who is an NDP MP from Saskatoon.

There seems to be a polarization within the NDP

Neat how some people can claim a mantle like "progressive" or "feminist" with the implication that others who don't agree with them on a certain issue are neither.

Anyway, here's a good article that goes over some of the specific claims that Singh did not follow proper procedure. Apparently the letter was signed by every living former NDP MP in Saskatchewan.

https://leaderpost.com/news/politics/ndp-veterans-in-sask-challenge-jagm...

I hope that Christine Moore gets booted out in next year's election.

I really like Pat Atkinson. I worked for her election campaign in 1986. She won by a landslide.

The Saskatchewan letter rehashes everything that Unionist has said right from the very beginning.

i won't vote next year. I am that angry.

I guess maybe the complainants in the sexual harassment investigation do have a right to privacy but if the federal NDP gave us more information about what actually had transpired then maybe we can assess the severity ourselves. I also don't think that disclosing more information would put the complainants in jeopardy or publicly disclose who they are.

he was chastised for reading portions of the report to the media  and disclosed what he was found guilty of: standing too close, sitting too close, and talking longer than they wanted him to talk.

if he hadn't disclosed this to the media, Canadians would have been left with the impression that he acted like a perverted gills monster on the loose preying on multitudes of women. Erin Weir has a reputation and this all transpired on national television. He had every right to defend himself and his reputation, and to disclose the general nature of the complaints that were made against him.

I wonder if Jagmeet Singh did not want to elaborate on the specifics because there was very little to discuss and that he would embarrass himself by disclosing any details.

i am aghast that they would want Erin Weir to be known as a pervert and not want him to clear his name in any way. That is beyond cruel. It is evil!

quizzical wrote:

am so not voting. can't bring myself to vote Green after the little expose i got.

I’m voting Liberal.