Saudis retaliate after Canada criticizes human rights violations

Mon, 2018-10-15 14:35

lagatta4

Was that Stalin?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/spyware-saudi-arabia-omar-abdulaziz-j... I heard this on Radio-Canada "Gravel le matin" this morning. Like Raif Badawi's family, Mr Abdulaziz lives in Sherbrooke Québec, where he studies at Bishop's University.

More on Omar Abdulaziz from Radio-Canada Estrie (Eastern Townships): https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1127394/etudiant-universite-bishops...

There are many more stories on Mr Abdulaziz in French and in English (and, I suppose, in Arabic). He has also assisted Saudi students who were seeking asylum.

Mon, 2018-10-15 15:26

#253

NDPP

Re: Death as statistic: WaPo

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/21/death-statistic/#note-358-6

Did Saudis, CIA Fear Khashoggi 9/11 Bombshell?

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/10/14/did-saudis-cia-fear-kh...

"The macabre case of missing journalist Jamal Khashoggi raises the question: did Saudi rulers fear him revealing highly damaging information on their secret dealings? In particular, possible involvement in the 9/11 terror attacks on New York in 2001? And with his increasing volubility in a prominent American news outlet it may have been time to silence him..."

Tue, 2018-10-16 15:41

#254

NorthReport

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/why-are-the-saudis-getting-the-russ...

Wed, 2018-10-17 03:45

#255

SeekingAPolitic...

I always considered the Saudi to be a negative actor, while the Kingdom has some backers that tell a different how modern dynamic country like Trump. Lest start with Bahrain where the Saudia crushed revolt against another tyrant monarchy. Suppression of Bahrain came before Mohammed bin Salman the current de facto leader. As the war against Yemen where 13 million are brink starvation. So that Mohammed bin Salman is being as an excuse for past Saudia crimes does not fly. Mohammed bin Salman my on crazed warlord scale is 9.5 out ten. The only political reform that he is responsible for foreign policy he turned the dial on spreading tyranny to from high to extreme. The idea the Suada are shepherding the rest of the countries under there influence is false they are rather milestone that back of the countries pay homage to them. The keep these fellow regimes from any political reform. Let me show in the diagram.

US back Saudia Foreign Policy, the difference with Trump letting the leash of control slip

^^^

Suadi foreign policy, repression of freedom in there region

^^^

Counties like Bahrain and Jordan for support to Suadi to repress their civil population.

Trump US enables tyranny to exist in Saudia Arabia and the Saudi do the same with there client states.

These are dynamics and chain of the process how tyranny is spread thought and reinforced to Saudi all client states. Imagine a web with a black sinister spider in the middle and it kills any hope for any reform with client states.

Wed, 2018-10-17 20:10

#256

josh

The U.S.’s failure to support Canada in the dispute likely emboldened MBS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/10/17/saudi-arabias-spat-with-canada-was-lesson-trump-ignored-it/?utm_term=.f3e8a60de88e&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

Wed, 2018-10-17 21:02

#257

NDPP

deleted

Sat, 2018-10-20 15:05

#258

SeekingAPolitic...

Trudeau maybe skilled communicator but I wonder where heart at this time moment. Canada arms sales to Saudi Arabia makes Canada a partner is starvation 13 million in Yemen. I thought the Mr.Trudeu was just harmless representative of the corporate elite, I see now the decisions he has made on Yemen are something are in the same category some ruthlessness that equals the what Mr. Trump actions. But crucially I overstated the sensed of the morality of Mr.Treadu embudded in him. Mr. Treadu has proved to an individual with lacking decently just Trump when dealing with the people Yemen.

Sun, 2018-10-21 02:36

#259

voice of the damned

“There was deafening silence at the time of the Canada-Saudi Arabia kerfuffle,” said Bessma Momani, a professor of political science at the University of Waterloo. “No traditional allies spoke up, and that was felt very deeply here.”

I think it's possible for the chattering-classes to overstate how much importance most people in Canada were placing on Canada Vs. The KSA. It's not like the Liberals are going to lose the next federal election because they didn't impose sanctions on Saudi Arabia a year and a half earlier.

It might be true that a stronger reaction from Trump would have deterred the Saudis, but it also seems to me that when you decide to do something like murder a dissident in a foreign-embassy, the question you ask is "Will we get caught?", not "If we get caught, will our allies make a big deal about it?"

And the Saudis would have to have a pretty skewed view of the world to think that, just because Trump doesn't care about something, everyone else is just going to automatically follow his lead.

Sun, 2018-10-21 11:41

#260

josh

Freeland’s statement:

https://www.canada.ca/en/global-affairs/news/2018/10/canada-condemns-killing-of-journalist-jamal-khashoggi.html

Sun, 2018-10-21 18:24

#261

Pondering

A commentator put it well. The reason this cannot be tolerated is that it happened in an embassy on foreign soil. If it isn't treated very gravely it basically gives permission for autocrats to murder their enemies outside their own countries.

Sun, 2018-10-21 20:04

#262

cco

Don't they already have that, though?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way defending what the Saudis did, but the idea that extraterritorial murder is some kind of shocking unprecedented thing doesn't seem backed up by evidence. It's only really an issue when the country hosting the murdered person has officially granted asylum and protection. Countries from Israel to Rwanda to Chile to America to Syria to, er, Turkey itself have disregarded national borders when they felt someone really needed killin'.

Sun, 2018-10-21 20:06

(Reply to #262) #263

Pondering

cco wrote:
Don't they already have that, though? Don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way defending what the Saudis did, but the idea that extraterritorial murder is some kind of shocking unprecedented thing doesn't seem backed up by evidence. It's only really an issue when the country hosting the murdered person has officially granted asylum and protection. Countries from Israel to Rwanda to Chile to America to Syria to, er, Turkey itself have disregarded national borders when they felt someone really needed killin'.

No not like this. Not within a country's embassy when the world knows the person entered.

Sun, 2018-10-21 20:21

#264

cco

In other words, on Saudi soil, per the Vienna convention. Libyan embassy staff shot and killed a British police officer on the street outside and just got sent home with a sternly worded notice. When you enter an embassy, you're on that country's territory. If Edward Snowden was foolish enough to walk into the American embassy in Moscow today, he'd likely find himself on the wrong end of a bone saw pretty quickly.

Sun, 2018-10-21 20:52

#265

WWWTT

@cco and Pondering

As far as I'm aware, this alleged murder did not happen at any embassy but at a consulate office.

In 1999, NATO bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, apparently accidently (but that could be a thread in itself). So did NATO attack China? Accidentally?

The ambassador is stationed out of the embassy and not the consulate. So for something like this to have happened out of the embassy would seriously seriously harm and undermine the foreign diplomats mission in the host country.

If I was an ambassador for Canada and Canadian thugs pulled something like this in an office I precided over, I would quit my position ASAP!!!! I would get the fuck out of there, go into hiding and change my name.

The staff from this Saudi consulate in Turkey are now in serious danger of lossing their lives!

Sun, 2018-10-21 21:08

#266

WWWTT

Should also point out that because this allegedly happened at a consulate and not an embassy, Turkish police can enter the consulate and seize whatever they wish and detain whomever (in accordance to Turkis law of course) as part of their investigation.

Sun, 2018-10-21 21:19

#267

cco

Nope.

Mon, 2018-10-22 10:37

#268

WWWTT

@cco

You are wrong. Also don't rely on wikipedia as your only source of info!

http://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_2_1963.pdf

Here's the section in detail that your wikipedia link doesn't fully cover

3.Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of this article, the receiving State is under a special duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the consular premises against any intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the consular post or impairment of its dignity

As you can see, under sentence 3 of section 31, the host nation is under the obligation of taking all appropriate steps in preventing disturbance of the peace.

If a murder did actually occur at the consulate, Turkish police must properly investigate!

And then section 55 sentence 1and 2

1.Without prejudice to their privileges and immunities, it is the duty of all persons enjoying such privileges and immunities to respect the laws and regulations of the receiving State. They also have a duty not to interfere in the internal affairs of the State. 2.The consular premises shall not be used in any manner incompatible with the exercise of consular functions.

And here's the cherry on the cake above! If the consulate premises and its staff did actually commit a murder there, then they broke the convention. Explain to me how the fuck can the Saudi's hide behind the very convention that they may have allegedly broke.

I don't know when it happened cco? But at some time you threw common sense out the window. The convention was never intended to protect nations from murdering people in foreign nations. Who the fuck would sign on to that?

If Saudia Arabia actually tries to bar the Turkish police from searching the consulate and possibly arresting, over an alleged murder, what would you think would happen?

Mon, 2018-10-22 11:57

#269

voice of the damned

WWWTT wrote:

3.Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of this article, the receiving State is under a special duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the consular premises against any intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the consular post or impairment of its dignity

As you can see, under sentence 3 of section 31, the host nation is under the obligation of taking all appropriate steps in preventing disturbance of the peace.

I'm just guessing here, but might that just mean an EXTERNAL disturbance, as determined by the consulate itself? For example, if someone from the host country walks into the consulate bombed out of his skull, drops his pants, and starts waving his dick around, and the consulate staff call the local police, the police are obligated to enter the consulate(even though it's foreign territory) and apprehend the flasher.

But if a government official from the foreign country visits the host country, walks into the consulate bombed out of his skull and starts waving his dick around, BUT the consulate staff are afraid to call the cops because he has the power to get them fired, then the minister is basically home-free.

Sat, 2019-01-12 12:35

#270

iyraste1313

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12.01.2019 Author: Catherine Shakdam

Saudi Arabia Declares War on Free Speech and Civil Liberties

Saudi Arabia has done it again … that is to land itself in the middle of a controversy that exposes not just the dictatorial devolution of its system of governance but the inaptitude of its governing dogma to self-sustain against the pushes of technology.

Early this January news surfaced that Prince Mohammed bin Salman called on Netflix to axe one of its up and coming artist: Hassan Minhaj, on account of his criticism of Al Saud royals in the context of their role in propping Islamic terrorism, and gross human rights violations in Yemen.

Incensed by the irreverence of Mr Minhaj – the comedian called Saudi Arabia a grand Terror facilitator and promoter, Riyadh threatened Netflix with legal proceedings by arguing the network had violated a Saudi law against cyber crime. As written, that law forbids “production, preparation, transmission, or storage of material impinging on public order, religious values, public morals, and privacy, through the information network or computers.”

The law (article 6 of the country’s 2007 Anti-Cyber Crime Law) imposes penalties of up to five years in prison and 3 million riyals ($800,000) in fines on those who violate its vaguely written provisions.

Since any form of criticism against the royal ruling elite … however mild and however factually relevant, is deemed a threat against national security, Minhaj deliciously witty take-down of MBS was perceived as an assault begging to be crushed – if need me under the barrel of a legal gun, and most immediately speaking with threats of financial repercussions.

“Saudi Arabia is basically the boy band manager of 9/11. They didn’t write the songs, but they helped get the group together,” Minhaj told his audience.
https://journal-neo.org/2019/01/12/saudi-arabia-declares-war-on-free-speech-and-civil-liberties/

Saudis retaliate after Canada criticizes human rights violations

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