China: Is it time to stop purchasing their goods?

It's time to think twice before buying anything that involves ocean freight.

Apple Is Just The Start: Trump Econ Advisor Warns Pain Coming For "Heck Of A Lot" US Companies

by Tyler Durden

Thu, 01/03/2019 - 11:19

40

SHARES

For those investors who are worried that the fate that has befallen Apple, which announced a revenue guidance cut due to a slowdown in "Greater China" coupled with what appears to be an implicit boycott by Chinese consumers, may hit more US companies President Donald Trump’s economist advisor has some surprising honesty: you are right.

According to the chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, Kevin Hassett, the trade war with China will force many U.S. companies to join Apple in announcing lower than expected earnings.

"It’s not going to be just Apple,” CEA chairman Kevin Hassett said in an interview on CNN. "There are a heck of a lot of U.S. companies that have sales in China that are going to be watching their earnings being downgraded next year until we get a deal with China."...from zerohedge

Well, that WOULD have the effect, intentional or otherwise, of utterly trashing the Chinese economy. ...from voice of the damned....

perhaps we ought to tar and feather all those economists, politicians, CBC type fake newspeople...ad nauseum who have turned Canada into a country of warehouses and supermarkets of Chinese production

NorthReport wrote:

 

Global anxiety reflected in Australian outcry over Canadians detained in China

https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2019/01/02/australia-raises-concern-ov...

Pulled from the above link:

China’s apparent willingness to detain Canadians for political gain despite such deep-seated cultural and economic ties represents a troubling paradigm for Australians.

Ah actually Ms Meng was "detained"  for apparently legitimate reasons. China as well has laws (who would have thought) that China will enforce.

I wrote a longer post which was erased due to being logged out while posting. I will try to nutshell it.

As i have said elsewhere I think the greater problem of consumption is on the consumer side.

Also China has a history of producing high quality goods for its own market -- I have seen many outstanding quality goods produced brought here by Chinese friends. I don't htink China desires low quality wasteful products so much as fills a demand for this.

I recognize the value of buying local in many cases but it can also be wasteful and hard on the environment to duplicate production locations as well. Some things ought to be local and other things trading is reasonable. The specs of a product can include how it was made and even the wages paid and the transportation methods. The demand to produce ever cheaper is not coming from China.

With transportation and automoation it is trending to be cheaper to reconsider sail again. This is positive.

I am not a nationalist either so have no desire to see the Chinese economy harmed especially since there is some effort there to increase quality and the value of goods and wages. China does nto want to be the lowest global work force. Buying things that are more sustainable from there is a better option that singling out China to boycott. Then what would we buy form places where the workers are even worse off and have even less hope for improvement?

Also a boycott is less influential than an attempt to make things more sustainably there. Many factories in China are controlled by foreigners -- trying to serve their specs. (I do not mean direct ownership but driven by demand from outside.)

To suggest a boycott is to place blame for consumption, waste, bad transpoortation methods on the Chinese. It might make some here feel good and nationalistic but will do nothing to address the actual issues which are largely on this continent.

If you want China to stop producing and selling junk in Canada, try this: bring laws to enforce long warranties on a wide range of goods. Watch that filter back through the supply chain. The Chinese will accomodate a demand for better quality long warranties more happliy than the pressure for the lowest price. Chinese workers could get paid more and Canaidan workers could compete for some of the jobs here. Fix the problem here.

Or by all means, boycott China and move the pollution-making enterprise to Vietnam and elsewhere and continue to choke on the garbage.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

To suggest a boycott is to place blame for consumption, waste, bad transportation methods on the Chinese. It might make some here feel good and nationalistic but will do nothing to address the actual issues which are largely on this continent.

If you want China to stop producing and selling junk in Canada, try this: bring laws to enforce long warranties on a wide range of goods. Watch that filter back through the supply chain. The Chinese will accommodate a demand for better quality long warranties more happily than the pressure for the lowest price. Chinese workers could get paid more and Canadian workers could compete for some of the jobs here. Fix the problem here.

Or by all means, boycott China and move the pollution-making enterprise to Vietnam and elsewhere and continue to choke on the garbage.

I agree with this 100%. We allow planned obsolesce to dominate our market place. Electronics are the ultimate in that kind of planning.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:

Ah actually Ms Meng was "detained"  for apparently legitimate reasons.

If they are legitimate, why is China not saying plainly what they are?

Apparently, saying what the charges are is "inconvenient" right now.  At least Meng knows why she's imprisoned in a luxury home right now, even if she disagrees.

 

Suspicion of engaging in activities that endanger national security is what the Chinese authorities have said. What is unclear about that. We have very similar laws in Canada. Hopefully the Chinese will not hold them for six years before trying them for spying or releasing them.

According to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, a security certificate is a document attesting that a permanent resident or foreign national is "inadmissible on grounds of security such as subversion or espionage, violating human or international rights, terrorism, serious criminality or organized criminality." It can take years before the certificate undergoes judicial review, during which time no one is required to tell the detainee or his/her lawyer what evidence there is or even what the allegations are. The judge may hold closed hearings at any time, and if the certificate is upheld, there is no chance for appeal.

http://hour.ca/2006/11/16/denied-due-process/

Pogo wrote:

Pogo wrote:

It's time to think twice before buying anything that involves ocean freight.

 

Please note I did not say stop buying anything involving ocean freight, just consider it as raising a caution flag.

We need to eliminate waste of all types.  That is why I am all in on a progressive consumption & wealth tax to replace our current flawed income tax system.  Combine that with rules/taxes on items that deal with particular issues of carbon footprints (cradle to grave - raw materials, manufacturing, transportation, lifespan and recycling). 

There of course are going to be some uncomfortable truths.  For example when one considers food miles the largest component is often the retail customer. Farm gate buying is nice, but as a person who takes advantage of this luxury I have to admit that it involves a lot of driving.  Mass distribution will necessarily be a cornerstone of any carbon strategy (hello Canada Post).

Very important points here. People do not realize the significance of the last step of transportantion to consumers as the distance is so low - but given the volume is also small and inefficient this is a significant part of the transportation footprint.

Where you can limit fuel-trips to the grocery store is a significant part of the reduction process as Pogo says.

Pogo wrote:

There of course are going to be some uncomfortable truths.  For example when one considers food miles the largest component is often the retail customer. Farm gate buying is nice, but as a person who takes advantage of this luxury I have to admit that it involves a lot of driving.  Mass distribution will necessarily be a cornerstone of any carbon strategy (hello Canada Post).

That is what farmers market's are all about, bringing the farm gate to local consumers.

http://www.comoxvalleyfarmersmarket.com/vendors

Dig deep into a farm market. Ignore the fake local produce for a minute.  Look instead at how much energy it takes to bring a relatively small amount of food to a market.  The people in the cars coming to buy and driving home with a couple bags of stuff. I am a sucker for these markets and the fresh food, but I don't delude myself that I am saving the planet.

Far better is finding a quality market that is a bike ride away or can fit into a regular commute.  Look first at the discount shelf, particularly at the mis-shapen items. A good market will have local food.  Buy in season and preserve. And most of all make sure you use what you buy.

There have been some very interesting visions of the growth of food within urban centres. I think urbanization brought us to a point of specialization of land use that has started to be rethought. No longer are free-standing malls considered a good model but rather mixed residential and commercial. The same is true of green space. It is notas economically profitable to grow food in small spaces but it is more economically sensible. People are realizing that there are issues related to water use, flood mitigation, energy use that can be mitigated by growing within urban centres.

It is true that this can be expensive at times and it is true that it is not possible for everyone. But where you can grow some of your vegetables locally is a vast improvement.

Truth is if you cut your meat consumption the benefits will be even greater but we have had this discussion here and several people have already spoken in the past about the disproortionate inefficiency of meat vs plant protein.

I am not a vegetarian although I do not deny the reasons why I should be. However, I do not eat much meat and this serves several benefits: it saves money; it is better for the environment; it is healthier for me.

I have tried to grow more food in my postage stamp back yard but I admit this has not been a very successful experiment: the concentration of hungry animals in my area is too much for the kind of garden I can produce. The light is a struggle as my neighbours have had trees at the edge of the property that through recent growth shade my yard completely until recently (the tornado in Ottawa last September sadly blew down many trees in the area).

Still I do know that growing local is a better way to go wherever possible.

I'd love to see a re-think of farmers' markets.  They're a great idea, and I love strolling through one, like an outdoor "food mall", but they're typically more like shopping at some high-end gourmet shop than like roadside produce stalls.  Strangely, as bad an idea as sending lettuce 3000km to Canada might seem, it's more expensive or difficult somehow to put a bunch in a pickup truck and drive them 40km to Toronto (going by the price).

Also, more and more vendors seem to not be farmers selling local produce, but rather artisans selling vegan pies and gluten-free bread, and sourdough bagels.  And of course there's the food trucks.

And while you can certainly buy a quart box of new potatoes for $4 when they first come off, when was the last time you saw a 20 pound bag of regular spuds at a farmers' market?  They're great if you want a small box of baby zucchini, but not so good for just basic day-to-day food supplies.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

I'd love to see a re-think of farmers' markets.  They're a great idea, and I love strolling through one, like an outdoor "food mall", but they're typically more like shopping at some high-end gourmet shop than like roadside produce stalls.  Strangely, as bad an idea as sending lettuce 3000km to Canada might seem, it's more expensive or difficult somehow to put a bunch in a pickup truck and drive them 40km to Toronto (going by the price).

Also, more and more vendors seem to not be farmers selling local produce, but rather artisans selling vegan pies and gluten-free bread, and sourdough bagels.  And of course there's the food trucks.

And while you can certainly buy a quart box of new potatoes for $4 when they first come off, when was the last time you saw a 20 pound bag of regular spuds at a farmers' market?  They're great if you want a small box of baby zucchini, but not so good for just basic day-to-day food supplies.

totally agree with this -- but this is the market demand. Hard to get people looking for basic food to go if they do not have it and hard to get them to have it if people are not going there for it. How do you change the culture on both sides? Somehow it has to happen.

I like the shared garden idea also although I cannot say I have done that before.

Quote:

but this is the market demand.

Probably true.  And I suspect that to some degree, the prices are "what the market (no pun intended) will bear". 

Also, my experiences at a number of Toronto farmers' markets could be due, at least in part, to them being Toronto farmers' markets.

When I was a kid, my dad would sometimes take me to the Saturday farmers' market at the arena in Sarnia, and I seem to recall seeing a lot more "boring" produce, like carrots and turnips, in larger quantities, and much less "boutique" produce.  And no "Beaver Tail" truck.

Apparently, farmers' markets in Toronto are a "circuit" -- some vendors will be at the Cabbagetown market on one day, the Trinity-Bellwoods market the next, etc., so a lot of the vendors are basically their own travelling road show, complete with tables, tents, big banners, a website, branded packaging and so on.  Personally, I'd be a lot happier with real local farmers selling unwashed, basic produce for a fair price from an old folding card table.

Quote:

I like the shared garden idea also although I cannot say I have done that before.

Same.  The only problem is that there's a limit to how much food you can really grow on (say) a ten by ten plot of dirt.  A friend who was involved with a shared garden in Cabbagetown told me a lot of people used their plot to grow things that they couldn't easily buy (callalloo springs to mind), as opposed to trying to be self-sufficient in tomatoes or whatever.  And that's another small problem with any small gardening -- you're harvesting tomatoes at exactly the same time that they're at their cheapest. 

I also try to grow a few things in my tiny yard, but I've given up trying to really grow enough of anything to feel like my food bill got smaller.  Lately my greatest joys have been in seeing which seeds from my spice cupboard will sprout.  So, I get a tiny bit of coriander, but at least it's basically free.  Same with dill, fenugreek, hot chilis, etc.  And if I manage to grow one good zucchini, I'll make a jar of relish from it and say "behold the gifts of the land!"  :)

We don't need fresh peaches in January. Growing up we had one peach tree and we canned enough peaches off that to have peaches once every week or so until the next year. My goal for the next year is to create serious preserve storage.  Already our freezer is full of blueberries and strawberries.  Using strawberries as an example the local berries have a shelf life of less than two weeks. However they are ten times the flavour of the berries that are currently at the local markets - mainly because they are genetically chosen for their durability.

We can talk about economies of scale and such for manufactured goods, but the list gets awefully short when we talk about food.

Pogo wrote:

We don't need fresh peaches in January. Growing up we had one peach tree and we canned enough peaches off that to have peaches once every week or so until the next year. My goal for the next year is to create serious preserve storage.  Already our freezer is full of blueberries and strawberries.  Using strawberries as an example the local berries have a shelf life of less than two weeks. However they are ten times the flavour of the berries that are currently at the local markets - mainly because they are genetically chosen for their durability.

We can talk about economies of scale and such for manufactured goods, but the list gets awefully short when we talk about food.

And how much electricity/energy do you use in preserving and freezing throughout the year?

Don’t get me wrong Pogo, I have fruit trees raspberry bushes goose berry bush garlic onion chives romaine lettuce that comes back every spring and always use to plant a huge variety of other vegetables. 

Problem is that urban condo lifestyles use less carbon for living and transportation. But very little opportunity to grow your own food 

This thread highlights that that Canada's diversity requires local solutions. I live in a valley that has about 65,000 total population but spread over three communities and rural residences and farms. Because of the ALR (Thks Dave Barret) we have an abundance of farmland that are almost exclusively small family holdings. Our farmers market goes year round in the largest of the centers and is less of a gourmet boutique than others I have been to. All products sold at the market except seafood, must be produced in the Comox Regional District or the Strathcona Regional District so they it is all local.

When I visited in Coburg Ontario a few years ago I notice the farmer market was very upscale including a booth to buy fresh lobster flown in from the Maritimes. Of course it was only a few blocks walk away from the yacht club.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Swiss Gear is a brand name, not an appellation of origin.  Nobody's trying to trick you.

An American friend of mine, resident in Canada, once bought a box of greeting cards made by the American Greeting Card Company. When she opened it up, she found an explanatory card with the following bit of chest-thumping...

MADE IN CANADA

NOT IN THE USA

One can understand the reasons for wanting to clarify the origins of the product, given the company's name,  but the addition of the second sentence sort of comes off like the guy who, in addition to telling you he's heterosexual, has to throw in "NOT GAY!"

WWWTT wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Swiss Gear is a brand name, not an appellation of origin.  Nobody's trying to trick you.

An American friend of mine, resident in Canada, once bought a box of greeting cards made by the American Greeting Card Company. When she opened it up, she found an explanatory card with the following bit of chest-thumping...

MADE IN CANADA

NOT IN THE USA

One can understand the reasons for wanting to clarify the origins of the product, given the company's name,  but the addition of the second sentence sort of comes off like the guy who, in addition to telling you he's heterosexual, has to throw in "NOT GAY!"

This is a risky comment to make! I don’t think that sexuality or lifestyle can ever be used in making some kind of comparisons. 

Why not? In both of the case of the greeting-cards and the self-proclaimed heterosexual,  the person or group isn't just content with stating who they are, they feel the need to go the extra mile and loudly assert who they are NOT. As if they worry that somehow there might be a reason that people could believe otherwise.

It's what you are implying. Or how someone may perceive or take your comment. I simply wouldn't make that comment because you are suggesting that being heterosexual is in some way better or more acceptable than another lifestyle.

Ya that's what I thought you meant. All in poor taste.