Brian Topp: "What awaits the NDP in 2019?"

Being from BC here is the part of this political sage's resume that I remember the best.

BC election defeat (2013)

Topp was brought to Canada's West Coast by Adrian Dix, the provincial leader of the Official Opposition, to manage the 2013 election campaign for the British Columbia New Democratic Party. Despite starting with a significant lead in pre-election polls, the BCNDP campaign failed to prevent the re-election of the Liberals under Premier Christy Clark and actually won fewer seats for the party than in 2009. Topp admitted that he made certain "errors in strategy" that might have harmed the campaign.[48]

Other work

Topp announced in early 2013 that he was joining with potential political opponents to create a new public-affairs strategy firm Kool Topp & Guy with conservative Ken Boessenkool (former advisor to Stephen Harper and Christy Clark) and liberal Don Guy.[49] Topp left the firm to work as Alberta Premier Rachel Notley's Chief of Staff, and was replaced by longtime NDP activist Jamey Heath.[50]

 

One degree left of the Liberals.  Yeah, that’s the winning ticket.

I met Topp in his campaign office at the Toronto convention centre for the 2011 NDP leadership convention (more like confronted him) and asked him about bill c-377. He admitted he never heard of it and I had to explain to him about it and labour’s approach. In fact, most of the candidates were caught off guard by my questions. I’m thinking they were so focused on trying to win that they forgot what was important. 

Hi Brian, thanks for joining in on the debate!

Canada is an imperialist country and some of us socialists here have a problem with that. 

Myself I seriously doubt that a country with corporations that use “democracy” to control and maintain profits will ever allow the NDP any serious responsibility in running the country. 

I find it shameful that there are those in the NDP that want to sell out the brand to the corporations to gain power. 

And Brian Topp's business partner is who again?

 

Brian Topp wrote:

Hi you guys. I’ve missed you too.

This discussion is a misrepresentation of what I say in that article — Jeff Wells cherrypicks snippets because he wants to be offended. 

Brian, the reason you are getting blowback is because you are attacking NDP activists...the "romantics" as you so sneeringly call them, when in reality the activists have been disregarded, disrespected, and driven away by the party for decades, when they aren't to blame for ANYTHING disapponting that's happened to the party at the polls.

 Every decision the party has made which ended up costing it votes was made by YOUR crowd, the dismissive, antidemocratic "shut up and do what we tell you-we're the party and you're not" crowd.  What could you possibly blame the activists and the Left FOR? And what is it that the Left has advocated that you are so terrified of? Was it ever THAT essential, for example, to block good peoplel from being NDP candidates just for acknowledging that Palestinians are human beings and that they don't deserve the misery Netanyahu and his predecessors in the Israeli government have inflicted on them?  Also, why are your sort of NDP insider types so fixated on driving away social movement types, when the social movements are the only part of the center-left or left where any energy or political effectiveness exists?

 

Hi Brian, nice to see you back here.  I am curious to hear what you think of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?

Brian may be back, but he isn't actually engaging the discussion.  His contributions to this thread are essentially "drive-bys", reflecting his insider attitude that he is somehow above having to actually make a case for something or fully elaborate on what he is talkng about.  

Gee, Brian Topp really nailed it in that one! So what does he think about Ocasio-Cortez and her breakthrough of the commie/pinko demonizing wall in her country? Is it too early for her to become the anti-Trump?

If another Bernie can come along and really succeed in breaking the establishment control of the two Neo-Nazi parties, it could be the model and the impetus for the same in Canada! 

Serious doubts though on Jaggi being the man to be leading it?

kropotkin1951 wrote:

montgomery wrote:

Serious doubts though on Jaggi being the man to be leading it?

Pet names for the leader of a party you claim to support. Hmm

Affectionately known as Jaggi! 

get a grip kropotkin, before you get into leading the 'ban the Liberal' team mode. My ideology represents the future of the party more than your does these days. Learn a bit of tolerance and inclusiveness. Why kropotkin, some of us even support the pipeline! Imagine! 

Actually Mont.. in my experience people who apply pet names for politicians are usually not their supporters.

I couldn't care less about the NDP winning or losing. I have done my years going the route of electing politicians to make a difference. After Bill's betrayal by Jack and the Ottawa cabal I have not bothered with the federal party.

I don't generally ask for anyone to be banned. However when I am in a certain kind of mood I will tell you to fuck off but never to try and silence you. You and Pondering are the new face of the NDP. I have always worked for it because of the individual candidates like Svend and Bill who I could help elect to speak truth to power not because I thought they were going to attract 40% of Canadian voters to my views.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Actually Mont.. in my experience people who apply pet names for politicians are usually not their supporters.

I couldn't care less about the NDP winning or losing. I have done my years going the route of electing politicians to make a difference. After Bill's betrayal by Jack and the Ottawa cabal I have not bothered with the federal party.

I don't generally ask for anyone to be banned. However when I am in a certain kind of mood I will tell you to fuck off but never to try and silence you. You and Pondering are the new face of the NDP. I have always worked for it because of the individual candidates like Svend and Bill who I could help elect to speak truth to power not because I thought they were going to attract 40% of Canadian voters to my views.

I'll have to read a bit more of 'Pondering' to learn what you have decided is going to be my face?

Tolerance and and an inclusive attitude Kropotkin, that's what it's going to take.  

 

Ken Burch wrote:

montgomery wrote:

Gee, Brian Topp really nailed it in that one! So what does he think about Ocasio-Cortez and her breakthrough of the commie/pinko demonizing wall in her country? Is it too early for her to become the anti-Trump?

If another Bernie can come along and really succeed in breaking the establishment control of the two Neo-Nazi parties, it could be the model and the impetus for the same in Canada! 

Serious doubts though on Jaggi being the man to be leading it?

Montgomery, Jaggi Singh and Jagmeet Singh are entirely different people.  Jagmeet Singh would never say anything remotely like this:   

"Everybody is an idealist. Everybody has this idea that things should be better and that's really a non-ideological thing. The fear is that those idealists will become radicals and start questioning the roots of the system, start questioning the power structure. People in power don't like that. You have to turn these idealists into realists, because once they're realists, they can accept the compromises that opportunists make; those being the politicians.

And how do you turn an idealist into a realist instead of a radical? Well, a baton blow to the head is one way. Getting wafts of tear gas is another. Yet another is making the radicals seem crazy and criminal. Give the distinct impression through the media that you will be jailed. You will be treated differently and it's not worth the trouble. As long as idealists stay that way, or even better become realists or opportunists, that's great." [13]

(Found on Jaggi Singh's Wikipedia page)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaggi_Singh_(activist)

This is Jaggi Singh :

THIS is Jagmeet Singh: 

I get your point Ken, I should keep them separate, even though I meant nothing malicious when I referred to him as Jaggi.

Maybe my main problem with Jagmeet is that I'm not a religious believer and I see problems with Christians who wear their torture device symbol around their necks on a chain. Same with Jagmeet's in my view. Even though I believe that we have to be inclusive of the minority of Canadians who are rebligious believers. It's just that [b]all else being equal[/b], I would prefer the neutral candidate. And the main reason why I say that is because it's our task to put up a candidate that appeals to the most people. 

Disclaimer: A black guy, an East Indian, a Chinese person, an Aboriginal, or a white guy are all fine with me. It's the Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc., that I'm a bit wary of supporting.

Do you think that many Canadians are stigmatized by the symbol too?

But I mean, whattaya do? Ask them to renounce their religious affiliations?

Anyways Ken, I'm more interested in success of the party than anything else right now. I think a great window of opportunity is about to open for the left. It's the probable groundswell of shit that's coming down when the left abandons Trump in the US. Canada will likely follow! 

Not always Ken. I sometimes refer to Jagmeet sometimes as Jag. But not Jag Singh. 

WWWTT wrote:

Not always Ken. I sometimes refer to Jagmeet sometimes as Jag. But not Jag Singh. 

I wasn't arguing that anybody would refer to him as Jag Singh-just that it's confusing to call the man "Jaggi" because there is, in fact, another public figure in Canada NAMED Jaggi Singh.  I respect your right to call the man what you wish to, though.

Ken Burch wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

Not always Ken. I sometimes refer to Jagmeet sometimes as Jag. But not Jag Singh. 

I wasn't arguing that anybody would refer to him as Jag Singh-just that it's confusing to call the man "Jaggi" because there is, in fact, another public figure in Canada NAMED Jaggi Singh.  I respect your right to call the man what you wish to, though.

Yeah, it was much ado about nothing.

Aristotleded24 wrote:

 

Nice that you can afford to decide your vote in this way. Other people have pressing issues, like being able to pay their bills at the end of the month. If your public policies will assist the vast majority of people to be able to do that, I don't care what symbols you wear.

In your rush to demonize me you've neglected to read what I said. I said that "all else being equal", and that choice is seldom offered. So how about trying again to understand what I said. Here, I'll repeat it for you:

If all else is equal, I'll choose the candidate that isn't wearing the relgious symbol.

Quote:

It's like when I hear people complaining about Muslim women wearing the hijab, and I want to say that if that is the worst thing you have to worry about in your life, then I'll gladly trade places with you. You can try and support yourself off the income I make (or support your whole family off that one income if you have one) and I'll gladly take on all of your personal challenges and struggles. I had the same reaction to reading that.

You didn't react in an appropriate way. Maybe I can reassure you by saying that I'm absolutely of the opinion that everybody be permitted to wear their religious symbols and religious garb in Canada. That includes Hijabs and turbans for mounties. And fwiw, I wouldn't prefer a mountie with the normal hat over one with a turban. That's different.

 

montgomery wrote:

I tend to be more tolerant of Sikhs, as one example, because their societies aren't as modern and advanced in the science of evolution as the West.

WTF do you mean by this.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

montgomery wrote:

I tend to be more tolerant of Sikhs, as one example, because their societies aren't as modern and advanced in the science of evolution as the West.

WTF do you mean by this.

careful Montgomery! These comments could get you in trouble here. Now I’m not a moderator and sometimes find myself at odds with other posters for comments I’ve made (and MegB) But this comment you’ve made here that kropotkin has highlighted is way way too risky! Beware. 

montgomery]</p> <p>[quote=WWWTT wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

montgomery wrote:

I tend to be more tolerant of Sikhs, as one example, because their societies aren't as modern and advanced in the science of evolution as the West.

WTF do you mean by this.

careful Montgomery! These comments could get you in trouble here. Now I’m not a moderator and sometimes find myself at odds with other posters for comments I’ve made (and MegB) But this comment you’ve made here that kropotkin has highlighted is way way too risky! Beware. 

It's a closed shop pal and it's pretty well impossible to stay out of trouble on this board. But what the hell, I can at least defend what I said.

You see, as societies advance they generally grow away from sky fairy beliefs. The exception is the US and probably Israel just as much but they're quite different. Islam isn't on the road to decline and neither is the Sikh religion to any degree. And to illustrate the point, neither are small tribal religions that worship airplanes passing overhead. I've got a hunch that all of the religious groups have a lot more murdering of each other to do yet. The best hope is for the countries that are throwing it out the quickest. China? Russia? Finland?

I'm talking about my rejection of religious beliefs and my disdain for it. If that isn't accepted as a legitimate position for an NDP'er then that's another issue I have a problem with here on this board. Be sure to let me know!

Granted, it's not all that consistent with the 'romantic' tradition and the regulars' notion of what the party has to be. How's that workin out for ya so far?

 

Monto what I don't understand is which countries citizens are primarily atheists? Unlike you I don't think any religion is more or less primitive or from primitive cultures. But then I hate religion but love spirituality. The ideal is great the institutions are the problem. In contrast to a caste society Sikhism has a long tradition of equality that you might find interesting.  Like many things I accept that most people are not atheists like myself.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Monto what I don't understand is which countries citizens are primarily atheists? Unlike you I don't think any religion is more or less primitive or from primitive cultures.

China is more atheistic and I think that Russia is too because they took measures to reduce religious influence. In Russia, it probably hasn't rebounded to the level at which it would be had those measures not been taken. That's neither an endoresement of Russia's methods or a rejection. You are welcome to try to trap me into taking a position on that later.

Quote:

But then I hate religion but love spirituality. The ideal is great the institutions are the problem. In contrast to a caste society Sikhism has a long tradition of equality that you might find interesting.  Like many things I accept that most people are not atheists like myself.

I don't think I like the spirituality part of it either in the sense you are promoting it. I think you're trying to say that you are opposed to organized religion but are religious in a more private way. I'm neither of course. I don't think I would find the Sikh religion any more enlightened than the rest of them so I won't bother.

Although there might be something good to say about Buddhism, because it's often said to not be a religion. I dunno?

 

montgomery wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Monto what I don't understand is which countries citizens are primarily atheists? Unlike you I don't think any religion is more or less primitive or from primitive cultures.

China is more atheistic and I think that Russia is too because they took measures to reduce religious influence. In Russia, it probably hasn't rebounded to the level at which it would be had those measures not been taken. That's neither an endoresement of Russia's methods or a rejection. You are welcome to try to trap me into taking a position on that later.

The anti-gay actions of Putin's government have the support of the established Orthodox church. Try again.

Besides a quick look at demographic data says that Russia has only 13% self identified atheists in its population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Russia