Nato

26 posts / 0 new

Fri, 2019-02-01 14:44

montgomery

Nato

I am completely and totally opposed to Nato because it is only a tool of US aggression. Nato serves no purpose whatsoever to Canada's security because the Soviet Union no longer even exists. And Russia is not an aggressor with an agenda of world domination in the name of communism. Communism?

Is it too soon for the NDP to take a principled stand against Nato?

Would it be the right stand to take, according to our principles?

Or is it too soon and would result in political Hari-Kari?

Do all NDP'ers even agree with my position as I've stated it above?

This discussion has been started because it was ongoing on the "Israel" thread where it was off-topic. NDPP, who is a supporter of Nato has invited the discussion on an appropriate thread.

Fri, 2019-02-01 22:19

JKR

montgomery wrote:

NDPP, who is a supporter of Nato....

So that’s why he admires Hillary so much!

Fri, 2019-02-01 22:32

(Reply to #2) #3

Ken Burch

JKR wrote:

montgomery wrote:

NDPP, who is a supporter of Nato....

So that’s why he admires Hillary so much!

Can you tell me what you base your conclusion that NDPP supports NATO on?

Fri, 2019-02-01 22:57

(Reply to #3) #4

JKR

Ken Burch wrote:

JKR wrote:

montgomery wrote:

NDPP, who is a supporter of Nato....

So that’s why he admires Hillary so much!

Can you tell me what you base your conclusion that NDPP supports NATO on?

I just thought it was surprising and funny that someone would think NDPP supports NATO. I don’t think he supports Hillary either ; ) I think lately Babble/Rabble is really jumping the shark.

Sat, 2019-02-02 08:50

Paladin1

The US and Russia are both agressors. It manifests in different ways but they'll both invade countries and kill people.

I think the spirit of NATO was origionally sound but it deserves some serious reconsideration now, especially with some of the recent entries into NATO like Turkey.

NATO CAN do good work, but it can also be used as a strong arm.

Say what you want about it but as I eluded to in the Israel thread countries will talk shit about the US but when countries like North Korea or Russia start rattling their sabres countries close by can't wait to praise the US.

I'm more inclined to trust the Five Eyes alliance myself.

Sat, 2019-02-02 09:57

voice of the damned

Paladin:

For the record, Turkey isn't a particularly recent entry. They joined in 1952, and there were fifteen countries who joined after them, the last being Montenegro in 2017.

Sat, 2019-02-02 11:18

Paladin1

Shit you're right. Thanks for the correction, Turkey is still a craptacular member of NATO IMO and should be removed.

There's also some talk about adding a bunch of countries that have nothing to do with the North Atlantic.

Sat, 2019-02-02 11:47

NDPP

I'll just throw 'a supporter of NATO' on the very interesting, growing pile of attributions and allegations of me here.

Sat, 2019-02-02 12:14

(Reply to #8) #9

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

I'll just throw 'a supporter of NATO' on the very interesting, growing pile of attributions and allegations of me here.

I assumed that Montgomery was confusing your name with that of another poster. Can't say for sure, though.

Sat, 2019-02-02 12:29

(Reply to #9) #10

montgomery

NDPP wrote:

I'll just throw 'a supporter of NATO' on the very interesting, growing pile of attributions and allegations of me here.

My accusation of you being a supporter of Nato was just as off target as your accusation of me wanting to derail the Israel topic for the devious reason of my support for Israel. I'll apologize for 'my' part in the understanding.

Sat, 2019-02-02 12:30

(Reply to #10) #11

montgomery

voice of the damned wrote:

NDPP wrote:

I'll just throw 'a supporter of NATO' on the very interesting, growing pile of attributions and allegations of me here.

I assumed that Montgomery was confusing your name with that of another poster. Can't say for sure, though.

That's true! NDPP accused me of being a supporter of the Zionist regime and I got sidetracked. It's Paladin who is the big supporter of Nato.

Sat, 2019-02-02 12:33

(Reply to #11) #12

montgomery

Paladin1 wrote:

Shit you're right. Thanks for the correction, Turkey is still a craptacular member of NATO IMO and should be removed.

There's also some talk about adding a bunch of countries that have nothing to do with the North Atlantic.

Yes, Turkey has been a loose cannon in Nato and has turned from supporting US crimes in the region, to becoming a sometimes supporter of Russia. Turkey should be applauded for taking that stand. It's a crack in the illegitimate and phony Nato nonsense!

Sat, 2019-02-02 12:52

(Reply to #12) #13

montgomery

Paladin1 wrote:

The US and Russia are both agressors. It manifests in different ways but they'll both invade countries and kill people.

Wrong Paladin! You didn't state your case correctly. Russia didn't invade the Ukraine but it sent support for the people who were being slaughtered because of the US coup. Russia reacted once again against US meddling and aggression. And I'm pleased you've followed up on the subject because it's time the lines are drawn by the NDP.

Quote:
I think the spirit of NATO was origionally sound but it deserves some serious reconsideration now, especially with some of the recent entries into NATO like Turkey.

How timid you've become! No, the concept or 'spirit' of Nato was never sound. History has proven that it was the US that was and is the aggressor. And gee, for somebody who's supposed to be involved in Nato, you sure missed the boat on Turkey! LOL

Quote:
NATO CAN do good work, but it can also be used as a strong arm.

Now I'm wondering if you could put your finger on Turkey on a map?

'If' NDP'ers are supportive of Nato then I believe it's our job to slowly bring them up to a better understanding of foreign affairs and our relationship with the US. I think there are several informed members on this board who are in tune with me on that.

Quote:
Say what you want about it but as I eluded to in the Israel thread countries will talk shit about the US but when countries like North Korea or Russia start rattling their sabres countries close by can't wait to praise the US.

That's talking exactly to your misunderstanding and much of the Canadian people's misunderstanding. They have been propagandized by the US into believing that crap. And so you talk in general terms because you don't have good examples with specifics. Fwiw, N.Korea isn't a threat to Nato countries and it's never been implied as such. In truth, it's a MAD counter-threat to the US. If you think you can argue it otherwise then pursue it with me.

And as to Russia being a threat that justifies the US running roughshod over 40 countries since WW2 alone, well, let's hear what you've got?

You're in over your head, and that's alarming to me, considering you're an NDP supporter.

Quote:
I'm more inclined to trust the Five Eyes alliance myself.

Outrageous!

Thank you for taking part in this topic and representing the Nato side.

Sat, 2019-02-02 13:52

(Reply to #13) #14

Paladin1

Loving your theatrics Montgomery.

montgomery wrote:

It's Paladin who is the big supporter of Nato.

Are you basing that on me saying the premise of NATO could do with some reconsideration, suggesting it can be a strong arm or that I trust the Five Eyes comminity more?

montgomery wrote:

Turkey should be applauded for taking that stand. It's a crack in the illegitimate and phony Nato nonsense!

Bringing out the P word, it's getting serious now. While we're applauding Turkey for taking a stand lets throw in some love for them facilitating, enabling and supporting ISIS.

montgomery wrote:

Wrong Paladin! You didn't state your case correctly. Russia didn't invade the Ukraine but it sent support for the people who were being slaughtered because of the US coup. Russia reacted once again against US meddling and aggression. And I'm pleased you've followed up on the subject because it's time the lines are drawn by the NDP.

You have no clue what you're talking about. In 2014 Russian soldiers dressed in civilian clothes and camoflage uniforms without badges or identification (doctrine) took control of strategic positions and infrastructure within the Ukrainian territory of Crimea, ultimately annexing it.

Last month the Russian navy started attacking Ukrainian ships.

You see, Russia didn't want Ukraine going ahead with a planned agreement on free trade with the EU back in 2013.

Quote:

How timid you've become!

I really wan to give you the benifit of the doubt here Montgomery but you have a very weird posting style. It's a strange mix between making personal attacks, trying to control the conversation, believing you're absolutely right about everything you're saying and get defensive when people don't recognize you for all your brilliance. It's like you're craving validation or something. It's hard to take you seriously, especially after you're "tactic" about not backing up your accusations.

Quote:
No, the concept or 'spirit' of Nato was never sound. History has proven that it was the US that was and is the aggressor. And gee, for somebody who's supposed to be involved in Nato, you sure missed the boat on Turkey! LOL

Yup. For some reason I thought Turkey was a recent addition, maybe it's due to their recent actions in Syria and with ISIS and me never giving much thought to NATO membership in the past. People make mistakes Montgomery, you LOLing about it makes you sound quite childish.

Quote:
Now I'm wondering if you could put your finger on Turkey on a map?

I'd just ask google.

Quote:
'If' NDP'ers are supportive of Nato then I believe it's our job to slowly bring them up to a better understanding of foreign affairs and our relationship with the US. I think there are several informed members on this board who are in tune with me on that.

Your job? Sounds more like a calling to me. I'll step back while the NDPers rally to your call, who's first?

Quote:

That's talking exactly to your misunderstanding and much of the Canadian people's misunderstanding.

More examples of how everyone's wrong but you.

Quote:
Fwiw, N.Korea isn't a threat to Nato countries and it's never been implied as such.

I was pointing out countries relying on the US for protection, not specifically NATO, though many NATO countries do. Especially interesting is how high they started jumping when the US threated to pull out of NATO unless they started spending more. Weird eh?

However on that note, why don't you go ahead and research North Korea's Hwasong-14 and Hwasong-15 ICBM range and see what NATO countries fall under it's range.

Quote:

You're in over your head, and that's alarming to me, considering you're an NDP supporter.

You're really obsessed about the NDP eh? Never the less I'm lucky I have such an enlightened party member to rescue me from being in over my head ;)

Quote:

Outrageous!

Thank you for taking part in this topic and representing the Nato side.

Hey you're welcome, but you realize 2 out of the 5 countries in the Five Eyes aren't members of NATO right?

Sat, 2019-02-02 16:47

#15

WWWTT

Hi paladin 1

I’m actually starting to think montgomery isn’t really that bad. He’s more of an acquired taste.

Oh and by the way, 3 of the 5 eyes are in nato.

Sat, 2019-02-02 17:08

#16

Ken Burch

montgomery, why do you feel compelled to use personal attack as a debate tactic? Nobody here holds any views that are despicable or intrinsically stupid, and none of us are evil.

Sat, 2019-02-02 18:44

(Reply to #16) #17

montgomery

Ken Burch wrote:

montgomery, why do you feel compelled to use personal attack as a debate tactic? Nobody here holds any views that are despicable or intrinsically stupid, and none of us are evil.

deleted, better said in a p.m.

Sat, 2019-02-02 23:02

(Reply to #17) #18

Paladin1

WWWTT wrote:

Hi paladin 1

I’m actually starting to think montgomery isn’t really that bad. He’s more of an acquired taste.

Oh and by the way, 3 of the 5 eyes are in nato.

He's very entertaining that's for sure!

Yes 3 out of 5 are, because they're in the North Atlantic geographical area. It seems like the 5 eyes are gradually moving from an INT sharing org to almost a mini-NATO. I wonder if that's the over all goal, replace NATO with a 5-eyes org, or perhaps expand it to the possible 9 Eyes organization. (They're looking at adding a few countries, I think France and Germany maybe included? I'd have to check).

Sun, 2019-02-03 14:10

#19

montgomery

Thanks WWWTT, I'm working hard at being accepted on this board.

The Nato name has no credibility and that could be a reason in itself for a name change.

IMO, European countries are wising up to the fact that Nato only serves US interests of being a justification for more US wars. The US will fight hard to uphold and expand Nato, regardless of Trump's early comments of Nato being outdated, countries weren't paying, blah, blah. That was only for the consumption of his stupid followers.

Canada's actions for/against Nato and Nato expansion is the issue for us.

Sun, 2019-02-03 17:58

#20

Misfit

Montgomery wrote:

”I'm working hard at being accepted on this board.”

Most people are accepted automatically.

Its an interesting admission on your part that you have to ’work at it’!”

Sun, 2019-02-03 20:14

(Reply to #20) #21

montgomery

Paladin1 wrote:

Bringing out the P word, it's getting serious now. While we're applauding Turkey for taking a stand lets throw in some love for them facilitating, enabling and supporting ISIS.

Paladin, all your errors and missteps contained in that post can be left for the 'informed' others on this board to shoot down. I'm confident we have enough expertise on this topic for it to be handled without me spending a lot of time on it.

But that which I've quoted you saying 'is' of some interest to me. First the 'p' word leaves me wondering what you could meand. But more important, we should get into a conversation with others involved, on your mention of ISIS. We could discover who they really are and whose freedom they are fighting for.

But for now, I think it would be premature to even broach the topic. If you have something to say about ISIS, I would be interested in hearing it!

Anyway Palidin, let's dispense with the personal attacks, as I've attempted to do, and stick to the topics!

Tue, 2019-02-05 16:26

#22

montgomery

Are my comments on Nato, a bridge too far for the NDP? I'm never lacking for understanding on how we must move toward justice in a slow way in order to avoid alienating the Canadian people. At the present, they're sold, hook, line, and sinker on Nato. And they get very little in taking a new and proper direction against Nato from anybody on this board. Do I move too fast?

In any case, my complete disgust and opposition for Nato is mine, and none of the chickenshit footdraggers need take any responsibility for it.

Out of respect for the decent side of Kropotkin, I will say that at least he's there on Nato. The rest appear to still be rolling around with the hens.

Tue, 2019-02-05 17:31

(Reply to #22) #23

Sean in Ottawa

montgomery wrote:

Are my comments on Nato, a bridge too far for the NDP? I'm never lacking for understanding on how we must move toward justice in a slow way in order to avoid alienating the Canadian people. At the present, they're sold, hook, line, and sinker on Nato. And they get very little in taking a new and proper direction against Nato from anybody on this board. Do I move too fast?

In any case, my complete disgust and opposition for Nato is mine, and none of the chickenshit footdraggers need take any responsibility for it.

Out of respect for the decent side of Kropotkin, I will say that at least he's there on Nato. The rest appear to still be rolling around with the hens.

Screw yourself -- you don't understand this place even in your second go around

Tue, 2019-02-05 18:02

(Reply to #23) #24

montgomery

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

montgomery wrote:

Are my comments on Nato, a bridge too far for the NDP? I'm never lacking for understanding on how we must move toward justice in a slow way in order to avoid alienating the Canadian people. At the present, they're sold, hook, line, and sinker on Nato. And they get very little in taking a new and proper direction against Nato from anybody on this board. Do I move too fast?

In any case, my complete disgust and opposition for Nato is mine, and none of the chickenshit footdraggers need take any responsibility for it.

Out of respect for the decent side of Kropotkin, I will say that at least he's there on Nato. The rest appear to still be rolling around with the hens.

Screw yourself -- you don't understand this place even in your second go around

It was a legitimate question Shine. We always have to be patient and wait for the people to catch up to the curve. If we don't then we get left out in the dark by ourselves. That then has a negative impact on the party. You know this Shine but you choose to keep pouting about me upstaging you. You need to just come to the understanding that we're fighting the same good fights.

It's either that or you get me banned from the forum.

I persist Shine, not for my benefit but because I believe that you and your oldtimer buddies are going to alienate all newcomers who are smarter than you, and that's going to spell the end of the party as it pertains to this clusterfuk board. Tell mom what I said!

Tue, 2019-02-05 18:09

(Reply to #24) #25

Sean in Ottawa

montgomery wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

montgomery wrote:

Are my comments on Nato, a bridge too far for the NDP? I'm never lacking for understanding on how we must move toward justice in a slow way in order to avoid alienating the Canadian people. At the present, they're sold, hook, line, and sinker on Nato. And they get very little in taking a new and proper direction against Nato from anybody on this board. Do I move too fast?

In any case, my complete disgust and opposition for Nato is mine, and none of the chickenshit footdraggers need take any responsibility for it.

Out of respect for the decent side of Kropotkin, I will say that at least he's there on Nato. The rest appear to still be rolling around with the hens.

Screw yourself -- you don't understand this place even in your second go around

It was a legitimate question Shine. We always have to be patient and wait for the people to catch up to the curve. If we don't then we get left out in the dark by ourselves. That then has a negative impact on the party. You know this Shine but you choose to keep pouting about me upstaging you. You need to just come to the understanding that we're fighting the same good fights.

It's either that or you get me banned from the forum.

I persist Shine, not for my benefit but because I believe that you and your oldtimer buddies are going to alienate all newcomers who are smarter than you, and that's going to spell the end of the party as it pertains to this clusterfuk board. Tell mom what I said!

Why do you say oldtimer? You are here for the second time in a new identity whereas I am in my first. And I am not old enough to have supported the CCF so I don't think I am an oldtimer.

You know what, go ahead and call me Shine. It actually makes me smile thinking that you would be so stupid as to think calling me a nickname is putting me in my place. Should we find out if your IP address is at the White House? You seem to have a lot in common with the person who lives there.

Tue, 2019-02-05 18:27

(Reply to #25) #26

montgomery

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Why do you say oldtimer? You are here for the second time in a new identity whereas I am in my first. And I am not old enough to have supported the CCF so I don't think I am an oldtimer.

O.k. newtimer then. I was referring to you being an oldtimer as pertains to the length of time you've been posting on this board. And I remember when your type was kowtowed to immediately because that seniority was the 'all'. Now maybe it's not.

But enough of that now. What do you think of my idea of going gently with the people on learning a deeper understanding on the tough issues. Say for example, the lack of support for Maduro and Venezuela. Can we be forthright in telling the people that it's not Maduro who needs to be blamed but the US that is completely and exclusively to blame?

I mean, what would Jagmeet say? What 'did' he say? I honestly don't know? Is he keeping his powder dry so he can fight another day? If he is then I don't blame him!

So you see S, it's more than just the dogmatic way in which Kropotkin sees it. You and me buddy!