Wilson-Raybould, Trudeau, and SNC-Lavalin

NDPP I got a warning too.

That it was a virus and was going to take information from my computer. Something like that. A stern warning not to proceed any further.

cco wrote:

Martin N. wrote:

Telford needs to resign for her op-ed propaganda remark and she needs to tale her henchpeoplekind with her.

Why? Because she said out loud what people who pay attention have always known? Did you think, prior to this, that op-eds on political stories were genuine reflections of the national mood by respected and nonpartisan deep thinkers setting out what needs to be done?

Man. I have some bad news for you on Venezuela.

Don't confuse hope for good governance with misunderstanding realpolitik and our corrupt plutocracy. I have cynicism enough but I prefer to dwell on positives.

I'm certainly smarter than I give myself credit for, I'm sure.

I was just asking if you considered yourself an imperialist because that's how comments came across to me.

Doesn't bother me either way. I don't play the I'm more progressive than you babble game :)

WWWTT wrote:

@Paladin1

Not playing any games. Just don't like reading bias comments, posts, links etc etc and feel that it should be pointed out. But according to you, it's my fault  now and I should just accept it.

I'm not sure.

You said;

-As far as the borderline full blown racism goes, that’s reserved for the imperialists. 

followed by

-I’m racist I recognize it and will be the first to admit it!

Full blown racisim is reserved for imperialists. You recognize you're racist.

Hence I was wondering if you consider yourself an imperialist because of your racisim or if your racisim isn't at "that level". Thats all. Just an honest question with no alterior motives.

WWWTT wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

Thread drift. I only accused some unnamed posters of being bias and/or using double standards. As far as the borderline full blown racism goes, that’s reserved for the imperialists. 

If my thread opener made some posters contemplate and wonder if they themselves are racist then that would be a good thing! 

I’m racist I recognize it and will be the first to admit it!

Are you saying you're an imperialist?

Did I write something racist? If I did then ya that would make sense  

Everyone is racist and/or sexist homophobic etc etc etc to some kind of degree from severe or to virtually undetectable, aware or unknowingly 

whats the point of your comment? Maybe you’re not as smart as you thought you were?

Without naming people you did not have to defend your statement, yet it smeared anyone whose post could be read as critical of the Chinese government. It is a silencing tactic that had a thread devoted to it.

Racism and imperialism should get called out, discussed, and the elements exposed so that it does not reoccur. Is this about education or shaming? Racism and imperialist propaganda are against the rules here. Employing this as an accusation that is waved at people but without any specifics or opportunity to defend is despicable. It uses an extremely serious important issue -- one that this place was built in part to discuss -- not to help but to attack and smear, and silence people. It is humiliating in this place. Some people in general population may not mind these accusations but on this site it is directed personal attack and humiliation becuase this is the central value here. This tactic allows people here to be attacked without defence as it insinuates but does not make clear exactly what the concern is. And let's not deny that it is an attack becuase this is what is supposed to be unifying values here. People are not just angry when truths are put to them as you suggest but when smears are put out on issues they care about.

A post that is racist ought to be pointed to, attacked directly, the accusation ought to be defended or at least supported and the person have a chance to respond with an apology or defence or denial.

Your thread is a disgusting low for this site and the fact that you are proud of it indicates that you are not in favour of any kind of fair process. Your thread is a carefully drawn bullying, extreme, yet apparently within the rules. The fact that you will not respond directly to the posts, defending your characterization, suggests a willingness to smear without ever having to defend your accusations.

Your tactic is disgusting. I have no idea why moderation does not give a shit. This is a tactic that should not be allowed here. And just becuase you are proud of your smear job does not change the fact that you have created a precedent for attack threads to be thinly enough veiled that can be identify people but veiled enough that they cannot be defended.

Your pride is shameful. If you had any shame at all you would go to that thread make clear exactly which posts you are accusing of this and explain the accusation.

Otherwise it was an attack and warning that you will smear anyone who challenges in any way a foreign government. This is a standard we would not permit of a government in Canada and should not permit anywhere else.

This site ought to be sophistacated enough where we can tell the difference between a racist statement and a questionning of ANY government. If the people you accused are not guilty enough to be banned then they ought to have a right to respond to your smear. Since your smear is not substantiated or defended this right is not maintained and people have to self identify as guilty of your smear in order to even quesiton it.

Because of the pile-on, we did not have the important discussion here that we should have. Rather than smear people then let's ask directly: which foregn governments are above criticism here? Should any be? Is it progressive to only criticize governments led by white males? Is that a tactic we want? Or can we criticize all governments without having to have some protected from awkward conversations?

What does it mean to be racist/imperialist here? If it means that we cannot criticize some governments as that would be racism, how do we establish which governments are immune? Would that not be a racist excercise?

If we cannot question foreign governments why have an international section at all? Why not just have an anti-imperialism thread and a European thread, Then people know they can discuss a European country and can raise the important topic of imperialism -- but be aware that any discussion about other countries can only be framed in these terms. If we want to shut down without specifics any concerns about governments that are victims of imperialism then, why suggest that we would have forums to discuss those countries? Oh but would this sweeping statement be itself racist? Isn't it racist and imperialist to presume that these countries cannot be discussed and defended? If the issue is being discussed at all is a problem -- then what is the point of international sections here?

If all governments actually can be questionned then what statements and attitudes come to the table and then the actual content of the posts matters. If this is the case then a smear at all people who had the audacity of speaking in a thread about China is a bit overboard?

Yes, I take this personally. I have spent a lot of time writing here about imperialism particularly in China. I have written at length about the ongoing dynamics borne by the humiliation of China in the treaty ports. I have defended the Chinese on their response to drug trafficing by noting the drug pushers of the European powers forcing frugs as a part of breaking open China to their imperialism. But I am an imperialist pig becuase I do not adore each and every edict of the Chinese government? How could I post here at all? I refuse to be loyal to any government or party here in Canada or anywhere if that means I cannot also question them. I consider my independent thought to be my most precious attribute and right. If I am to udnerstand that there is any party here that I cannot criticize then I cannot be here. This is not a flounce. This is a statement of the most basic value I hold. It does not matter if that is the NDP or the CPC.

We have seen here comments about South Asian counties but that was okay. How does that differer from China? India was colonized and suffers terribly from the effects of that as does much of the world. But you can question the govenrment of India. As I asked before, if you can criticize the goverment of Israel without being anti-semetic how can you not question the government of any other country?

To the moderators... If the thread about China - that is attacking posters without naming them but easily possible to look up the threads and see them - in the opening post is okay then why can we not have a list of the foreign governments that we are not allowed to quesiton?

Is it fair to have comments allowed in praise of a government but claim that an questioning of those posts is racist? If I am an imperialist racist, how come I had the right to bring the history of China's victimhood of imperialism here? How did I have a right to speak about China having the fastest rate of growth in renewable energy? How could I laud them for being one of the few very old civilization to re-emerge again as one of the most powerful in the world? How can I be allowed to make some comments about China at all?

How is that a discussion? Isn't it racist to presume that the actions of the Chinese government cannot be defended here with logic such that we have to shut down any criticism or silence people with accusations of racism and imperialism?

There are stong beliefs here about what these terms racism and imperialism mean. What is a left of centre place if we cannot discuss the meanings of these and question the accusations? What is the value of this place if we can throw the terms around and never have the need to say who we are throwing them at and specifically what they said that merits that and how? What the hell is a political progressive site if this is not a worthwhile conversation?

I know virtue signaling being what it is we probably cannot answer these questions and instead have to bully people like me to shut the fuck up in order to make sure that everyone who did not speak in those threads won't be accused of the same. It is not enough to trust the posters who have been here, some more than a decade, speaking about imperialism, just enough to have a conversation with them about what they mean and exactly what they said. If there was something racist in my post, I would want that pointed out just as much as I would want to respond angrilly if this is a personal and unsubstantiated attack on me. Yes, here racism and imperialism are like character issues. Make a mistake and get held -- be branded across the board and that is another thing. Being lumped in with mainstream media might be a compliment in some places but it is not here.

People here are not journalists or politicians. They are not, for the most part, professional writers. They might say something that does not come out exactly how they meant. This is okay in a conversation becuase you can draw out and clarify what someone is saying. But if you speak in a China thread in a way that is not complementary about the Chinese government we have a thread here accusing you of racism and imperialism and a person here proud of that.

We have a bunch of posters defending that. We have moderation silent about it even though this speaks directly to what this site is about. They should defend the thread and let people who do not want this approach or they should speak about the openness of being able to quesiton the powerful, those in power wherever they may be including in China.

Should we have a racialized standard for governments - (that would be new here)? Sensitivity and awareness about imperialism and a prohibition on racist comments is not enough -- we should not criticize in any way a government that is not white -- while pretending that this is not in itself racist? Shouldn't we have this conversation so those who consider that this is racist can decide what to do?

Why the hell does it seem as if none of this matters? What does matter here if this is not worthy?

Fair question Unionist. 

This all started with kropotkin defending me (WWWTT) earlier in this thread, if I’m correct?

It’s about a thread that caused a polorization amongst some posters, myself included. Good debate actually! And good valid points made by everyone!

But your right Unionist, it’s thread drift and shouldn’t be discussed in this one to maintain some decent level of integrity. 

Hi Misfit. Ya you could be right? It takes time to properly articulate a comment. And sometimes I have time for babble, sometimes not so much. 

I thought I was clear enough. But really, does it matter that much? My intent was to start/continue  discussion about something and that happened. Not in the right thread at times (sometimes not a big fan of thread drift like Unionist). 

I’ll make a comment in the right thread to redirect this issue there. 

Sean your series of posts is designed to silence WWWTT's voice. Just stop it please. You take every fucking post personally and think people including me are interested in you enough to intentionally insult you. That is mere delusion on your part and your ranting about me and others is disruptive to many threads.

Your views in my opinion are premised on a world view that I only partly share but that is the case for the majority of the posters on this forum. Any time I try to disagree with you you attack me for having ill intentions and wanting to silence you. Every time, as I have been trying to do lately, I try to agree with you ignore it. The kicker is that you fight with more people on this board than just about anyone (present poster excepted) and it is always them that are evil and you that is the saint. Are you from a Catholic background?

The other thing is that you attack our radical left wing posters supporting governments that are not vassal states of our NATO oligarchy the most vehemently. Anything good said about a non-NATO state must always be followed by a condemnation of that state or you interject to call out the poster for advocating tyranny.

So please if you would restrict your self to writing to the moderators instead of derailing multiple threads and taking your fights from one topic to another it would be appreciated. Your comments on issues are always welcome but not your comments on the people who frequent this board.

https://imgflip.com/gif/2vymm8

Looks like Wernick's earlier predictions of political violence might be coming to fulfillment, though possibly not with the perpetrators he was expecting.

https://tinyurl.com/y2goef37

Some less-official media outlets were reporting the grit-teethed Wacko Grandpa to be a "Liberal supporter", which seems likely, unless he's a Conservative who went to protest Trudeau but for some reason ended up getting into a fight with other protestors instead. But no official word as to his identity, so far.   

https://jwilson-raybould.liberal.ca/news-nouvelles/letter-to-vancouver-granville-constituents-from-the-honourable-jody-wilson-raybould/

NorthReport wrote:

Liberal Wilson-Raybould complains about Wernick pressuring her to cut a deal for SNC and he is resigning because of lack of trust with the opposition

Yea sure

Wernick is resigning because he stepped over the line with his inappropriate comments and has only made the SNC scandal worse for the Liberals

Yeah what a load of BS coming out of Wernick's mouth as to the reason for his resignation!
Like he cares one iota about the opposition and their trust???  LOL!!!

It it looks like a rat, walks like a rat, smells like a rat...

Wernick did what he was asked, namely chuck schmitt in all directions in order to make Trudeau look good by comparison. He is at the end of his career and gladly sacrificed his integrity - probably not much of a sacrifice - to profit in his 'retired' life with a golden handshake from somewhere in the kleptocracy. 

Brison got Vice Chair at BMO for services rendered, Wernick will also be rewarded. Like pedophiles are drawn to the church, sociopaths are drawn to government because the pickings are easy and the gullible , honest members easily corrupted or 'taken care of'. 

Philpott and Wilson-Raybould Can Speak Freely on SNC-Lavalin in Commons Says Former House Law Clerk

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rob-walsh-wilson-raybould-privlidge-1.5...

"Wilson-Raybould and her former colleague Jane Philpott - who resigned from cabinet in protest over the government's handling of the SNC-Lavalin file - can say whatever they want in the Commons without penalty.

'If they are speaking in the House, or in a committee proceeding, they are absolutely protected by the law of parliamentary privilege and no legal proceedings of any kind can be brought against them based on what they say in the House or in House committee proceedings,' Rob Walsh told host Vassy Kapelos today in an interview with CBC News..."

So let's get on with it. This odious liar Trudeau needs to go.

With respect, I'll take the considered opinion of the esteemed clerk Walsh over yours. The way forward is clear. Let's see if they take it.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

NDPP wrote:

With respect, I'll take the considered opinion of the esteemed clerk Walsh over yours. The way forward is clear. Let's see if they take it.

It depends, does he own a woodsplitter?

Sorry that was merely a pithy way of saying I don't respect the title and don't have any clue what kind of political operative he is. I have already seen his successor resign because he got caught in the back draft, although he doesn't seem to have been charged with anything.

It looks like the Liberals have something to hide since they shut down the Judicial Committee. There should be a proper hearing into what actually took place that way the Liberals don’t look like they are hiding anything.

The fact that the Liberals  shut everything down says to me that there are limits to what can be said.

it reeks of a cover up but I don’t think that the Liberals will lose any votes over it in October and they know it. That is why they are forcefully shutting it down.

it reeks of a cover up but I don’t think that the Liberals will lose any votes over it in October and they know it. That is why they are forcefully shutting it down....

The matter must be taken to Federal Court, and the actions by the BCCIC re the Peace, may be one opportunity...it`s hard to believe that people of conscience in Canada are just sitting by watching this total corruption continue...the next election must be postponed, as the citizens of Canada are being denied the truth, fundamental to our Section 3 Charter rights!

‘Lance the boil beneath the band-aid’

https://www.straight.com/news/1218086/martyn-brown-dr-philpotts-unspoken-sage-advice-liberals-lance-boil-beneath-band-aid

JWR is playing chess, and she always wins

http://warrenkinsella.com/2019/03/jwr-is-playing-chess-and-she-always-wins/

Thanks Sean for clearly stating what is really going on

Ii was obvious yesterday at his Town Hall meeting that Trudeau looked like a deer caught in the headlights

Now whether or not the truth ever gets exposed is another matter as is Telford her name in the PMO who basically stated the Liberals can flood the media with their Liberal lies if need be