United Kingdom

George Galloway: TMOATS, March 22, 2019 (podcast)

https://talkradio.co.uk/radio/listen-again/1553281200

Opening monologue on Brexit begins @ 05: 45

"I watched Sky News last night. I watched abject national humiliation turn into abject international humiliation. I saw svelte, well-fed, well-watered multi-millionaire bureaucrats that run the EU. I watched them diplomatically reduce, diminish, humiliate my country. And I've had enough.

I've had enough of the endless perigrinations over the leaving of a trading block, which we joined without a referendum in 1973, and which was supposed to be a common market but which has become steadily over my lifetime, a hydra-headed, grotesque, ugly, antidemocratic, super-state. I'm not prepared to live in such a state.

It's because I love democracy, where the people rule, that I cannot accept that a decision made by 17.5 million people, the largest number of people ever to vote for anything or anyone in our entire history of democracy can be set aside by a lobby and lobbyists growing fat on their lobbying. I cannot accept MPs deciding whatever the people decided or thought the people were wrong and therefor the MPs will decide what we get. Because there are certain unassailable facts that will never change.

The British government and parliament decided to give the British people a referendum and told them that the government and parliament would abide by the result. This is a fact which cannot be changed. And when the referendum came and went and the decision was made, the parliament in overwhelming numbers, at least two-thirds or more, voted to trigger Article 50, to begin the ineluctable, unstoppable process of leaving the European Union.

Moreover, when the General Election was so foolishly and peremptorily called by Theresa May, both of the major parties, both Labour and Conservatives, explicitly, not implicitly - explicitly - accepted the results of the referendum and said that they would implement it. 

Both parties, which attracted 80% of the votes in the election of 2017, promised in their Manifestos that they would accept and respect the results of the referendum. And implement it. And these facts too, can never be changed however much money is spent to obscure, to obfuscate and to lie about these essential facts.

So this is no longer about Brexit. This is about democracy. It's about whether the people's will can be set aside by vested interests with enormous wealth and power. Tony Blair, Alistair Campbell and all the fat-cats that vainly try to persuade you through 'Project Fear' that you must back the EU. All of them are sucking on the teet of vested interest. And the vested interests in this case, are the richest people on both sides of the Atlantic and the richest people on the mainland of the continent of Europe.

The fact that they are all so desperate that you should remain in the European Union should tell you something, shouldn't it? Shouldn't it tell  you something that every banker in the city of London wants you to remain in the European Union? Every fat-cat in Brussels wants you to remain in the European Union? The multi-national American banks plowed millions into persuading you that you must remain in the European Union. Why do you think they did that? Because they care about your life?

Leaving the European Union is not a sufficient condition for making our country better but it is a necessary condition. We have no future in the EU. If you didn't think that in 2016, surely you know it now? Surely, you've seen the way they have behaved - these gangsters, these Sopranos in better suits over there in Brussels that are twisting and turning and yes, blackmailing you, your country, your government, your parliament,  your prime minister.

We already voted. And we're not going to vote again. And we're not going to go away until the results of our vote are implemented..."

Tom French‏ @tomfrench85 4h4 hours ago

More

Thousands of marchers chanting “where’s Jeremy Corbyn” - complete absence of leadership from the Labour Leader on the Brexit crisis #WheresJeremyCorbyn #putitothepeople #PeoplesVote

https://twitter.com/i/status/1109438474795532289

nicky wrote:

Tom French‏ @tomfrench85 4h4 hours ago

More

Thousands of marchers chanting “where’s Jeremy Corbyn” - complete absence of leadership from the Labour Leader on the Brexit crisis #WheresJeremyCorbyn #putitothepeople #PeoplesVote

 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1109438474795532289

Head of PR for the SNP.

Gosh, NDPP, I never realized there were one million war criminals marching today!

who wudda known?

nicky wrote:

One million people are marching against Brexit today in London.

Are you one of them Ken?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/gallery/2019/mar/23/fromage-not-farage-best-placards-peoples-vote-march-brexit

Or are you marching with Farage?

nicky wrote:

One million people are marching against Brexit today in London.

Are you one of them Ken?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/gallery/2019/mar/23/fromage-not-farage-best-placards-peoples-vote-march-brexit

Or are you marching with Farage?

So by that logic, we must all be fascists because Donald Trump was against the Iraq war and in many aspects campaigned on cutting back US military adventurism abroad?

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/

• Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.
• In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.
• Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996.

Sorry you find my point obscure Josh.

it is to contradict Ken’s Trumpian misstatement that Corbyn did “ everything he could possibly have done to stop the Leave victory.”

You are probably right Josh that Corbyn’s personal ambivalence was not decisive. Especially given the level of disrespect in which he is held.

But, things might have been different if he had allowed Labour’s machine to weigh in unambiguously for remain.

Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

5,027,731 signatures

Labour Leave: Full Interview w Costas Lapavitsas *Must Hear*

https://youtu.be/n8IBJCmTiuU

"So if the Labour Party wants a radical strategy -  as it should - If it wants to change and transform British society- as it should - then it should be in favour of Brexit. And that to me is the meaning of Brexit - really the only Brexit that makes sense and the only Brexit that is coherent and what people want.

The EU faces an existential crisis, with the biggest crisis in its core. It's stagnant. In big trouble. From now on it's only a question of managing its own instability and decline..." 

They voted to leave.  Leave means leave, whether by deal or not.  Enough with the anti-democratic obstructionism.

UK Coup Erupts: Theresa May Cabinet In Revolt, Plotting Her Imminent Overthrow

Theresa May may have days, if not hours, left as prime minister of the UK following a full-blown cabinet coup on Saturday night as senior ministers moved to oust the UK prime minister and replace her with her deputy, David Lidington.

According to the Sunday Times, following a "frantic series of private telephone calls", senior ministers agreed the prime minister must announce she is standing down, warning that she has become a toxic and “erratic” figure whose judgment has "gone haywire."

The plotters reportedly plan to confront May at a cabinet meeting on Sunday and demand that she announces she is quitting. If she refuses, they will threaten mass resignations or publicly demand her head. The "conspirators" were locked in talks late on Saturday to try reach a consensus deal on a new prime minister so there does not have to be a protracted leadership contest....

So who will our oligarchs replace Trudeau with?

josh wrote:

Leave:  17.4 million.  The public was told that the vote would be respected and enacted by parliament.  

The public was also told that the UK would also sign a beneficial deal with the EU.

JKR wrote:

josh wrote:

Leave:  17.4 million.  The public was told that the vote would be respected and enacted by parliament.  

The public was also told that the UK would also sign a beneficial deal with the EU.

That was never made a condition of the vote, and what does that even mean.  Beneficial to whom?  How is beneficial measured?

This refusal to accept the results of the vote is not only contemptuous of democracy, but dangerous.  How do you think a lot of the voters who voted leave will react if they get double crossed?  In their, justifiable, bitterness, they could very well make Tommy Robinson PM.  Is staying in the EU worth that?

nicky wrote:

You are probably right Josh that Corbyn’s personal ambivalence was not decisive. Especially given the level of disrespect in which he is held.

But, things might have been different if he had allowed Labour’s machine to weigh in unambiguously for remain.

He didn't stop-or at that point even have the ability to stop-"Labour's machine" from weighing in unambiguously in favor of the EU.  It's also not possible to be an unambiguous supporter of the EU and have socialist values.

What was Corbyn supposed to do?  Deny that the immiseration of the North and Northeast of England caused by EU policies had anything to do with support for Remain?  Was he supposed to tell those left to rot in those areas to "suck it up, snowflake!"  

Those were the voters who needed to be persuaded to back Remain.  There was nothing in the status quo that could possibly induce them to do so.  What do you think "Labour's machine" could have said, but that Corbyn somehow stopped them saying-and stopped them saying at a time when much of said "machine" was controlled by those in the party who were refusing to accept that Corbyn had won the leadership fair and square and that the greater good of the party required them to get fully behind him-that would somehow magically have persuaded these people that the misery the EU had inflicted on them wasn't actually real?

And why do you not indict the same right-wing anti-Corbyn "machine" for not doing what they SHOULD have done and called for an all out fight to rid the EU of its mandatory austerity requirements?  Why do you not call out Corbyn's opponents in the party for refusing to see that the issue was poverty and hardship, was despair about the future, and committing themselves to a battle for change within the EU?  For the love of God, do you believe the Blairite/Tory-controlled Remain campaign was flawless?  That it bore no responsibility at all for the result?

nicky wrote:

and Ken, are you serious in pretending that Corbyn did all he could to oppose “leave” in the referendum? That certainly wasn’t the view of 80% of Labour MPs or any number of commentators who described Corbyn’s efforts with words like half-hearted, begrudging, desultory and lip-service.

Who cares what these MPs think? Politicians generally tend to be lying, backstabbing, elitist pampered twits who are more into power games and live a life of priviledge, luxury, and comfort that their constituents cannot imagine. They are not in any way in touch with the day-to-day concerns and struggles of the constituents they claim to represent. Looking at Caucus endorsements, remember how the federal NDP Caucus endorsed Bill Blaikie in 2003? Remember how the Caucus again endorsed Mulcair in 2012? Remember how the Manitoba NDP Caucus endorsed Greg Selinger in 2015?

These politicians don't know what they are talking about. Any politician running for leadership who has the support of Caucus is a huge red flag for me.

josh wrote:

JKR wrote:

josh wrote:

Leave:  17.4 million.  The public was told that the vote would be respected and enacted by parliament.  

The public was also told that the UK would also sign a beneficial deal with the EU.

That was never made a condition of the vote, and what does that even mean.  Beneficial to whom?  How is beneficial measured?

This refusal to accept the results of the vote is not only contemptuous of democracy, but dangerous.  How do you think a lot of the voters who voted leave will react if they get double crossed?  In their, justifiable, bitterness, they could very well make Tommy Robinson PM.  Is staying in the EU worth that?

I think the consensus position in the UK that should be followed is for the UK to leave the EU and to establish a customs unit and single market with the EU. I think that position would be easily ratified by a second referendum.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

And it remains curious to me

I'm sorry, I just have to laugh at this one. Was that a deliberate pun on your part? :D

The Soft-Shoe Shufflers of the People's Vote Crowd

https://twitter.com/iarentspartacus/status/1109819152993263617

"France Protests AGAINST Neoliberalism."

"London Protests FOR Neoliberalism."

https://twitter.com/BungaCast/status/1109786076313538560

Quote:

So is another election coming in Britain? If so, how many will that be in the last 5 years?

From the quote that you posted a mere six minutes before asking this:

"you forgot that you" wrote:

A series of top ministers raised the prospect of a third UK election in four years

The last British election cost £140 million. Military spending, by contrast, is about £37 billion. I don't think a snap election is going to clean them out.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-will-of-people-poll-leave-remain-eu-second-referendum-vote-centre-social-research-curtice-a8839996.html