Using Mental Illness as an Insult

Quote:

I deliberately did not reference a post because it isn't about a specific poster or thread or condition.

I had intended to reply to the OP (but went to Chinatown instead) to basically say what Sean said.  I think it's unacceptable to call another babbler "schizophrenic" or "bipolar" based on a disagreement with their ideas or logic.

But words like "paranoid", "irrational", "delusional", etc., aren't restricted to mental health.  Paranoid is basically the only word for paranoid, and while it's true that paranoia can be a symptom of a mental illness, it can also not be.

So I think that whether you like it or not, this is going to have to be about specific words.  What ones do you think should be off-limits?

Pondering wrote:

It is deeply offensive to see this tactic repeatedly used to insult people.

Anyone who genuinely has a mental illness of any sort who reads it feels diminished as a person even if it wasn't directed at them nor references their particular illness.

It reinforces prejudice and bias against people who have a mental disorder. You don't use cancer to insult someone.

I have a specific recent example but I won't use it because I don't want it to become about specific posters. I hope we can all acknowledge it happens and it is very wrong.

In my opinion it needs to be specifically addressed in policy and it needs to be an absolute prohibition.

No one should be allowed to  make that mistake more than twice. One warning and then you are out.

At the very least anyone who sees it should call it out.

I guess you are referring to another thread where you accused me of asking an ulterior question in order to persecute you? In the other thread I asked you an honest question and you responded to me by saying that I wasn’t really asking the question in good faith, but rather I was in actuality asking the question deceitfully in order to persecute you. I responded to you by saying that my question was asked truthfully and in good faith. You then responded to me by saying that I was lying about lying in order to persecute you. I once again stated to you that I was being truthful and acting in good faith. You responded to that by saying I was lying about lying about lying in order to persecute you. I then responded by saying that your continuing accusations toward me that I was continuously lying in order to persecute you might be based on “a persecutory delusion.” In any case, I think you are in no position to tell me what my “real” thoughts are. I also think it makes no sense for you to say you know what my thoughts are after I told you that those were not my thoughts. I also think you have no right to accuse me of ulterior malevolence aimed at persecuting you.

This is a sensitive issue, and I understand it better than most, having lost friends and immediate family to major depressive disorder, something I was diagnosed with after my mother and brother ended their lives within months of each other. Mental illness runs in my family - my sister is bipolar and my niece has been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. The rest of us mostly hang on by our fingernails to some semblence of a normal life.

That said, language is fluid and contextual. Words have multiple meanings and context is important. I wouldn't ban someone outright for using offending language without pointing it out and asking for a more sensitive approach. For the most part folks here get the three strikes option before I consider them abusing the priviledge of posting on babble. That's not a hard and fast rule - there are levels of offense and it's a judgement call as to whether someone is either seriously harming the community or if they're just oblivious as to the impact of their posts. I always consider a person's willingness to grow in understanding before writing them off.

I have a soft spot for people who have a willingness to learn about what it means to be progressive, coming from a place that most of us would find anathema. They get a lot of latitude from me because they display a real need to understand the vision of a better world. And then there's the pure dumbfuckery. Less patience for that.

So no. No one is going to be banned for using language that could be construed as mental health ablist, uness they are consistently seen as disruptive and not open to understanding the impact of their language.

Meg, I’m so deeply sorry to hear about your loss and the suffering your family has had and is currently going through. My deepest condolences to you.

Pondering wrote:

JKR, I have not referenced, quoted or addressed anything from that thread because I don't want this thread to become personal. I am not going to defend myself nor accuse you here. 

I did participate in that other thread so if you want a response revive that thread and I will answer there then give you the last word and we will be done. 

It seems to me that you’ve accused me of “using mental illness as an insult” on this web site. I think ownership of your statement belongs to you.

Your words have consequences.

Thanks for your words Meg, a lot of wisdom in them. Sorry for your losses.

stop jkr. just stop. 

you are ignorantly derailing this thread.  if you hadn't popped up and started spewing i for one wouldn't have known you were having a disagreement with pondering in another thread. 

master of your own destiny i'd say.

thanks meg for sharing your family's story. 

i've got some issues with ableists casually tossing around marginalizing words.

just because they've been used forever doesn't mean they should continue to be.

it's dehumanizing and hurtful to those whose lives are impacted. we don't go around slighting MS sufferers or any other physical disease.  why some think cognitive health negativity is up for  grabs i don't understand.

Thanks for the kind words everyone. I think pretty much everyone is touched by mental health issues - whether their own or someone they care about.  The stigma - particularly for women, who have been locked away in madhouses for for centuries for non-conformity - continues unabated, making it difficult to talk about openly without prejudicial preconceptions automatically kicking in. 

When I was diagnosed I was told I'd probably be on antidepressants for about six months, tops. That was 16 years ago. I've tried it all - every antidepressant you could think of, ECT, meditation, breathing exercises, light therapy, grief counselling, talk therapy, you name it. There have been some positive results in studies around the use of non-traditional drugs like ketamine and magic mushrooms for treatment-resistant depression, but you can't exactly walk into your shrink's office and ask to be prescribed a baggy of BC's finest shrooms or a few hits of Special K (unless you also want to be stigmatized as a drug-seeking addict). There are no protocols in place yet.

All chronic illnesses - but in particular mental health ones - have the potential to be isolating to the individual and can be difficult to talk about, But talk about it we must. Open and sensitive dialogue is, I believe, the most important way to combat the stigma. 

Thanks for that comment Misfit! I'm somewhat aware of watching intake. Especially cutting out potato chips and other junk foods and fizzy pop drinks. I know for a fact from my reactions of eating chips, that potato chip manufacturers put something in the chips to make them addictive. I would actually go through withdrawal without them for the first couple weeks! I see the same reactions from my children as well. I suspect that this goes for other drinks and foods.

But it sounds like you've taken your awareness of diet to a whole new level!

Yum you made me hungry.

Pondering wrote:

Although I was not diagnosed until I was 16 it started by the age of 4 or 5 for me. I wasn't picked on. I had no reason to be sad. I was just sad as my natural state of being. I have also tried various medications but I gave up for years at a time because of the side effects. Then I would get desperate and start trying again. I had terrible side affects with all the SSRIs. Around 15 years ago I went in for yet another try for some kind of treatment and the doctor asked me what I wanted to try. I was a heavy smoker, pack and a half a day, and I had heard that Zyban/Wellbutrin was actually an antidepressant and was a new type, not an SSRI. It is a reuptake inhibitor for norepinephrine and dopamine instead of serotonin. Within 12 hours I knew it was right for me even though I could not be feeling the antidepressant effects. I just felt really awake and within days felt like I could appreciate colour so much more. Then I got hives. I had to stop right away. I was so upset. I found a message forum and a woman had had hives too. But she said after a month off she was able to get back on but just had to increase the dosage more slowly. I asked my doctor for that and thank goodness he agreed. The really awake lovely colours thing went away with the hives. 

I still managed to go back on. The hives didn't return. The brighter colours and awakeness came back much subdued. I tried stopping several times, not exactly deliberately. I would run out and think "I feel fine, it's my head, I can manage now" but I would be in bed all day within a month. Warned it could stop working permanently I stopped doing that. I accept that it really is a physical ailment like an irregular heartbeat that has to be treated. I wonder if all those years I cycled through various antidepressants if they had just started me on them slowly if they might have worked.

I ended up on the right medication after decades because a doctor asked me what I wanted to try next and an internet forum gave me the information I needed to ask my doctor to try again. Treatment really is a crapshoot. 

I too tried various approaches, yoga, light therapy, which did not work individually but I find I still have to supplement the Wellbutrin with other techniques and in that sense they do work. While light therapy didn't work I did love the brightness. I now have 10 5000k LED lights in my living room on timers so they are on all day even when it is bright and sunny, and I am on the 5th floor facing southwest. I'm going to be putting 5000K in every room eventually. I find it makes a huge difference. It isn't just the brightness it is the colour of the light. The way things look under it. The lights near the window only matter on rainy or cloudy days but the rest matter all the time. 

I avoid disaster porn turning to written news. Sometimes I detach 100%. A while back a new cemetery of indigenous children was found. I tried to tell my daughter about it on the phone but it brought tears to my eyes, even now, to think of those poor children and how they and their families suffered.  It isn't just that they suffered. It's that they suffered needlessly as a result of pointless human cruelty. I react like that now so you can imagine how upsetting the world was when I was depressed. 

I mindfully listen to music every day. Exercise regularly but whatever I want to do not actual workouts. Wii, walking on the mountain, dancing, anything that will convince me to get off the couch. Being grateful for my great good fortune from where I live to family and friends, doing good deeds in the form of helping neighbours by picking up groceries etc. for those with limited mobility, volunteering with babies, and plants so I have greenery in the house all winter. 

Clinical depression and OCD are reaching greater public acceptance in part because many stars have come out and "admitted" to them. Some of the other mental illnesses not so much.

We are in the infancy of treating the brain as an organ that can malfunction like the heart or liver. Mental health care needs to be split into two clear separate categories. 

There are issues caused by physical malfunctioning of the brain, and there are issues that are better treated by a life coach or improving social skills or having a healthier lifestyle. Someone could need help with both but they are separate things. It's like putting people who need exercise in the same category as people who need medical treatment. 

I am also sorry to hear about the personal challenges you have had finding the right medication. I have had people close to me suffer through this. One, an artist, had to deal with medication that a side effect was to numb her creativity. It is very true that what helps can also harm of create problems. I hope you are able to find things that you are able to tolerate and that help.

I think the number of people who are never diagnosed and who have to cope on their own would be staggering. I think that while people got used to getting physicals, it would be better if the entire population would also receive supportive mental health checks as well. It is likely that almost everyone could benefit.