Man Camps

180 posts / 0 new

Fri, 2019-06-21 08:11

voice of the damned

Pondering wrote:

Obviously no one is planning to lock men up in camps behind barbed wire so they can't escape but from this discussion you would think A) that I suggested it and B) that I am still arguing in favor of it.

No, I understand that you're not proposing that men be compelled by armed-force to remain in camps. As far as I can glean, your idea is that the workers sign a contract stipulating that they will remain in the camps when off-duty, under penalty of dismissal should they breach that provision.

But, if you're going to propose that sort of regulation, I don't think it's too much to ask that you give at least a thumbnail sketch about how it's gonna work. To return to my earlier question, who puts the clause into the contract? Does the government somehow mandate that the companies put it in, or do we expect the companies to do it voluntarily?

And how is this enforced? If some workers are found to be missing from their dorms, do the local police go into town looking for them, IOW the police are being asked to enforce the provisions of an employment contract? Or does the company just do a roll-call every night, and anyone not there has his contract terminated?

Fri, 2019-06-21 08:15

#103

voice of the damned

And point of question for quizzical...

our health Centre even has a full lab and xray and she's trying to say we have no rape kits even.

Does having a full lan and an X-ray qualify as having a rape kit? I'm asking because I honestly don't know about these things.

Fri, 2019-06-21 08:26

(Reply to #103) #104

quizzical

voice of the damned wrote:

And point of question for quizzical...

our health Centre even has a full lab and xray and she's trying to say we have no rape kits even.

Does having a full lan and an X-ray qualify as having a rape kit? I'm asking because I honestly don't know about these things.

yup it does. and we even have full time mental health professionals.

but this whole conversation about rape kits is distracting from the reality what she is saying is bs. i only used it as an example to show how full shit she is.

https://www.rainn.org/articles/rape-kit

Fri, 2019-06-21 11:27

#105

Misfit

There are many communities in Canada without rape kits. This is a long standing issue.

i am from Moose Jaw. I talked to an ER nurse about rape kits in Moose Jaw which has a population of 35,000. She told me that she dreads women who have been sexually assaulted coming into the ER in Moose Jaw. She said that yes Moose Jaw does have rape kits but the nurses are so busy that they cannot give the women the one-on-one that they need, and she said that she has seen the work done that the gynaecologists on staff do and their work is so hatchet job butchery that she said that if you possibly can to go to Regina instead.

there are many communities without rape kits. This is a problem. Even if you do have rape kits, most centres are not properly staffed or trained to handle sexual assaults. In Saskatchewan, Regina General and the Saskatoon RUH are the only two places in the province that have the trained doctors, nurses, and other support staff to properly handle sexual assault patients.

i grew up in a community with a hospital, doctors and nurses and a lab and an x-ray unit. It has no rape kits. In fact, most hospitals outside the major centres don’t..

Fri, 2019-06-21 12:17

(Reply to #105) #106

Paladin1

swallow wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:
Thanks for the heads up-I just did some reading aboht it. The 70% figure is the actual figure reported by the RCMP. There appears to be questions and complaints and push back about how the RCMP arrived at that figure with accusations of racisim and colonialism. It's still the figure reported by the MMIWG. Might make for a good seperate thread.

No, the RCMP has never formally endorsed that figure. You are referring to a statement by Bob Paulson of the RCMP in 2015, which is the source of all the other reports citing this figure. No actual statistics have been reported other than the Paulson statement. The RCMP's own reports do not use the 70% claim.

The commission did not accept the 70% figure. In fact it rejects that figure. To quote Annex 1 of the report: "The often-cited statistic that Indigenous men are responsible for 70% of murders of Indigenous women and girls is not factually based."

The piece you want to read is https://www.nationalobserver.com/2019/06/07/analysis/we-fact-checked-viral-claim-about-whos-killing-mmiwg-it-was-wrong

The entire report can be downloaded for free from the MMIW web site.

I see what you mean. I downloaded the report to read when I can but I found the Annex you mentioned and it's exactly how you say. I'll make sure to point it out the next time someone repeats the 70% stat.

The RCMP and Paulson also are very good at cherrypicking stats to support their own narratives.

Fri, 2019-06-21 12:25

(Reply to #106) #107

quizzical

Misfit wrote:

There are many communities in Canada without rape kits. This is a long standing issue.

i am from Moose Jaw. I talked to an ER nurse about rape kits in Moose Jaw which has a population of 35,000. She told me that she dreads women who have been sexually assaulted coming into the ER in Moose Jaw. She said that yes Moose Jaw does have rape kits but the nurses are so busy that they cannot give the women the one-on-one that they need, and she said that she has seen the work done that the gynaecologists on staff do and their work is so hatchet job butchery that she said that if you possibly can to go to Regina instead.

there are many communities without rape kits. This is a problem. Even if you do have rape kits, most centres are not properly staffed or trained to handle sexual assaults. In Saskatchewan, Regina General and the Saskatoon RUH are the only two places in the province that have the trained doctors, nurses, and other support staff to properly handle sexual assault patients.

i grew up in a community with a hospital, doctors and nurses and a lab and an x-ray unit. It has no rape kits. In fact, most hospitals outside the major centres don’t..

when i was date raped 26 years ago we even had rape kits back then.

it wasn't handled well admittedly but nowadays we have all sorts of counseling and support services which weren't in place then.

but i say again what Kanahus depicted is absolute bs.

Fri, 2019-06-21 13:24

#108

Misfit

Here is an article about rape kit access issues in Canada.

ArtIcle

Fri, 2019-06-21 14:06

(Reply to #108) #109

Pondering

quizzical wrote:

Pondering wrote:

So quizzical, that is one example and I am sure there are more. Are you saying there are no man camps anywhere or are you saying man camps are not a problem?

i am saying pipeline camps really don't exist on a big level most pipeliners have RVs and travel with their families. and if there are camps they're not permanent unlike the oil sands and fracking camps.

pipeline men and women are highly trained and skilled at what they do and if anything fks up they immediately have to pass a drug and alchohol test.

and i'm saying Kanahus is full of shit in her portrayal of Valemount and what's going on.

I accept your word on Valemount. When you say families are you referring to couples or those with babies? School age children would have to be homeschooled.

Fri, 2019-06-21 14:11

(Reply to #109) #110

Pondering

voice of the damned wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Obviously no one is planning to lock men up in camps behind barbed wire so they can't escape but from this discussion you would think A) that I suggested it and B) that I am still arguing in favor of it.

No, I understand that you're not proposing that men be compelled by armed-force to remain in camps. As far as I can glean, your idea is that the workers sign a contract stipulating that they will remain in the camps when off-duty, under penalty of dismissal should they breach that provision.

But, if you're going to propose that sort of regulation, I don't think it's too much to ask that you give at least a thumbnail sketch about how it's gonna work. To return to my earlier question, who puts the clause into the contract? Does the government somehow mandate that the companies put it in, or do we expect the companies to do it voluntarily?

And how is this enforced? If some workers are found to be missing from their dorms, do the local police go into town looking for them, IOW the police are being asked to enforce the provisions of an employment contract? Or does the company just do a roll-call every night, and anyone not there has his contract terminated?

I also stated that the towns might not go for the idea as businesses do profit but that part was ignored. Yes I do think it is too much to ask me to come up with a specific plan as though we are in the implementation phase.

I dropped it and asked if anyone else had any ideas. In the past I would have explained how rules work but not anymore because we are not in the implementation stage and we aren't referring to a specific site near a specific community.

Hint: Police don't enforce rules

Fri, 2019-06-21 16:03

(Reply to #110) #111

quizzical

Pondering wrote:

quizzical wrote:

Pondering wrote:

So quizzical, that is one example and I am sure there are more. Are you saying there are no man camps anywhere or are you saying man camps are not a problem?

Both.

i am saying pipeline camps really don't exist on a big level most pipeliners have RVs and travel with their families. and if there are camps they're not permanent unlike the oil sands and fracking camps.

pipeline men and women are highly trained and skilled at what they do and if anything fks up they immediately have to pass a drug and alchohol test.

and i'm saying Kanahus is full of shit in her portrayal of Valemount and what's going on.

I accept your word on Valemount. When you say families are you referring to couples or those with babies? School age children would have to be homeschooled.

Fri, 2019-06-21 17:00

(Reply to #111) #112

Misfit

Pondering wrote:

quizzical wrote:

Pondering wrote:

So quizzical, that is one example and I am sure there are more. Are you saying there are no man camps anywhere or are you saying man camps are not a problem?

i am saying pipeline camps really don't exist on a big level most pipeliners have RVs and travel with their families. and if there are camps they're not permanent unlike the oil sands and fracking camps.

pipeline men and women are highly trained and skilled at what they do and if anything fks up they immediately have to pass a drug and alchohol test.

and i'm saying Kanahus is full of shit in her portrayal of Valemount and what's going on.

I accept your word on Valemount. When you say families are you referring to couples or those with babies? School age children would have to be homeschooled.

Bull shit the children would have to be home schooled. There is an invention called school busses and children would go to public schools.

Fri, 2019-06-21 20:16

(Reply to #112) #113

6079_Smith_W

Paladin1 wrote:

Bacchus wrote:

An amusing statement since a goodly portion of those camps are made up of First Nations young men

I was hoping someone would point that out. The 70% reference in the MMIWG report comes to mind too.

The percentage is irrelevant.

I am used to hearing that bullshit argument on racist Saskatchewan radio. For some reason, I am still surprised to hear it made here.

Does the fact that some free blacks actively collaborated in slavery mean that it did not exist?

Does the fact that black cops have shot innocent black people mean there is not a clear trend of black people being targetted and killed, where white people walk?

Does the fact that some Indigenous people want a place in the oil industry mean that it doesn't destroy the land Indigenous cultures depend on for survival?

The fact that much of this violence is within those communities can be tied directly back to our system of racism and poverty and discrimination. Privileged people pointing at them brutalizing one another as if they are the ones who caused this problem (and we have no role in it) is just another facet of it.

And part of what makes it genocide is that no matter who is doing the killing, those people's lives have very little value in our system, and everyone knows it. If it even gets noticed, no one is going to care too much or work too hard.

Indigenous + Woman = Easy target.

Fri, 2019-06-21 21:05

(Reply to #113) #114

Misfit

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:

Bacchus wrote:

An amusing statement since a goodly portion of those camps are made up of First Nations young men

I was hoping someone would point that out. The 70% reference in the MMIWG report comes to mind too.

The percentage is irrelevant.

I am used to hearing that bullshit argument on racist Saskatchewan radio. For some reason, I am still surprised to hear it made here.

Does the fact that some free blacks actively collaborated in slavery mean that it did not exist?

Does the fact that black cops have shot innocent black people mean there is not a clear trend of black people being targetted and killed, where white people walk?

Does the fact that some Indigenous people want a place in the oil industry mean that it doesn't destroy the land Indigenous cultures depend on for survival?

The fact that much of this violence is within those communities can be tied directly back to our system of racism and poverty and discrimination. Privileged people pointing at them brutalizing one another as if they are the ones who caused this problem (and we have no role in it) is just another facet of it.

And part of what makes it genocide is that no matter who is doing the killing, those people's lives have very little value in our system, and everyone knows it. If it even gets noticed, no one is going to care too much or work too hard.

Indigenous + Woman = Easy target.

Exactly.

Fri, 2019-06-21 22:00

(Reply to #114) #115

Pondering

Misfit wrote:

Bull shit the children would have to be home schooled. There is an invention called school busses and children would go to public schools.

If there are schools they can be bussed to then it isn't a temporary work camp as I understand them.

This is a man camp:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/44375648/ns/business-careers/t/life-oil-field-man-camp-not-everyone/#.XQ2LDuhKhPY

Sat, 2019-06-22 02:13

#116

Misfit

I am not an expert on this topic but pipelines are very different then oil patch workers. Pipelinere need to cover a large territory unlike oil sands workers, etc.

For instance, a pipeline was installed in my region. Oipelinerd stayed in out city in motels while they laid the pipelines. They stayed in our area for about three months and then relocated to another community to be closer to their work. It was summer and some families drove their Rab’s in and stayed at local campsites while the kids were out of school.

Sat, 2019-06-22 09:48

#117

Pondering

Yes that is closer to how I perceive man camps except in more remote areas.

Sat, 2019-06-22 13:03

(Reply to #117) #118

quizzical

Misfit wrote:

I am not an expert on this topic but pipelines are very different then oil patch workers. Pipelinere need to cover a large territory unlike oil sands workers, etc.

For instance, a pipeline was installed in my region. Oipelinerd stayed in out city in motels while they laid the pipelines. They stayed in our area for about three months and then relocated to another community to be closer to their work. It was summer and some families drove their Rab’s in and stayed at local campsites while the kids were out of school.

exactly misfit.

pipeliners only stay in camps if one happens to be close to where they're working and it's too far to drive in. they avoid camps as much as possible and will drive in and out 2 hrs plus instead.

many i know stay in their RVs all year. their families are there during weekends and holidays if they have kids and are they are in school.

the permanent camps for oil sands workers and fracking crews are a whole other reality. the workers stay for set periods of time and go home for week or more.

my partner's crew has lots of women on it including a married lesbian couple. they're all tight knit and move from place to place together as a unit.

Sat, 2019-06-22 15:15

#119

Pogo

Growing up I had people in school for part of the year as their parents were in town for a short period. I could see pipeline families moving from school to school. Not the best education, but if the alternative is unemployment it probably a reasonable choice.

I also think that camp work has evolved. 50 years ago it was probably a lot more of a horror a show. Now the people that I know who work in remote camps are a lot more stable. My brother raised 3 boys working for Syncrude as well as taking in two nieces when they found jobs there. My neighbor spent 5 years working in camps. He is a non-drinker and that is now more the rule than the exception.

Sat, 2019-06-22 15:59

#120

Paladin1

So, doing some reading on my own and seeing the first and second hand accounts here maybe these camps aren't as terrible as some people are trying to lead others to believe?

Sat, 2019-06-22 20:39

#121

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

I spent a few days at a camp set up to build a hydro-electric generating station recently and it was very well appointed. I probably had a nicer room than some of the labourers but overall, it seemed all rooms were private with their own on-suite bathroom. There was 24 hour access to snacks and a full service large cafeteria, there was a movie theatre, a gym, a handful of media rooms to watch netflix, and a games/arcade room. Facility wise it was good. However, I cannot speak to how the rules and conditions are for workers who have 3 weeks on and 1 week off rotations for many months to a few years. And I am not a person of colour, so I cannot speak to any racism that might exist in the camp. My stay was short enough that I cannot speak to any sexism either. But as a female, I did feel very safe.

Sat, 2019-06-22 21:04

(Reply to #121) #122

quizzical

Pogo wrote:

..My neighbor spent 5 years working in camps. He is a non-drinker and that is now more the rule than the exception.

pipeline crews have to pee test the second anything happens. like if they're using slippery swamp mats to travel on and accidentally slip off and get stuck, they have to pee clean.

one guy got tee boned driving home from site. totally not his fault. person shot across hwy into him from a side road and the company still made him go straight to a lab and pee, accompanied by a supervisor even.

there's 0 tolerance. you don't pee clean your gone. and you get tested before hired.

Sat, 2019-06-22 21:51

#123

Pondering

Then the section on man camps in the MMIW is very strange. They didn't read articles they interviewed people. Could this really be some sort of loose conspiracy to make white people look bad? I wouldn't think they would have to make stuff up or exagerate to achieve that. It's very strange.

Sat, 2019-06-22 22:07

(Reply to #123) #124

Paladin1

Pondering wrote:

It's very strange.

Is it though?

Trudeau wanted Wilson-Raybould to say something. Trudeau wanted the Mark Normal trial to say something.

Not a stretch of the imagination that Trudeau wanted this report to say something.

Sat, 2019-06-22 23:20

#125

quizzical

watch Kanahus's video filmed several weeks back, check time stamp on responses even to date it for yourselves.

listen to her word use.

read the report submitted less than 2 weeks ago, in specific section on man camps.

and then think on it. i did. at the very least she knew what the section in report was going to contain imv.

Sun, 2019-06-23 01:00

(Reply to #125) #126

voice of the damned

Pondering wrote:

Then the section on man camps in the MMIW is very strange. They didn't read articles they interviewed people. Could this really be some sort of loose conspiracy to make white people look bad? I wouldn't think they would have to make stuff up or exagerate to achieve that. It's very strange.

Well, it could be something like reports on drug-abuse you get from agencies that have a pre-existing agenda(in many cases, justifiable) of convincing people not to do drugs. If one of their interviewees took PCP and scratched his eyes out, they're gonna put that in the report. The guy who says "Yeah, I took PCP about a dozen times and had a good trip each time" isn't gonna get the same amount of column space, even though, according to stats I have read in a sociology textbook, most PCP users are more like the latter guy than the former.

Which is not to say that concern over PCP is all fabricated. Obviously, if even just 1% of the users are doing things like scratching their eyes out, that probably justifies government action against PCP, even if that means restricting the freedom of the majority who have a good trip.

Sun, 2019-06-23 01:07

#127

6079_Smith_W

I guess most people here didn't bother to read those articles from LaDuke, and the Star Tribune, or just discounted them.

The connection between these camps and abuse of women is well-established in the states, to the degree that Enbridge is trying to wallpaper over it.

It certainly isn't a conspiracy to make white people look bad, though by showing more concern for arguments about confining workers to camps than people who actually have been murdered, we seem to be doing a pretty good job of that ourselves.

Back in my treeplanting days we were told in one town to stay out of the main bar because outside work crews were likely to get the shit kicked out of them. We didn't file a human rights complaint. We steered clear of the bar.

In Australia we visited a tropical site where we were informed outsiders were not welcome in the Aboriginal community along the road (and that some tourists ignore that and violate it anyway). I think what this is about more than anything is our thinking we should be able to go anywhere and do anything we want, and being completely oblivious to the fact this is about holding the line against rape and murder.

If people have gotten to the place where they have to shut the door and say we are not welcome, maybe the first question should be why they feel that way, not how dare they.

Sun, 2019-06-23 03:11

#128

Misfit

Ed I have two things to say.

1. Welcome back Smith. I missed you and your contributions which are always well thought out. And I agree.

2. I did not proofread my pipeline post and am very sorry I didn’t. Auto correct can sometimes make a mess of things.

Sun, 2019-06-23 13:40

#129

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
though by showing more concern for arguments about confining workers to camps than people who actually have been murdered

That's a very right-wing way to put it.

Sun, 2019-06-23 13:43

#130

quizzical

Smith your key phrase is "in the states" and we all realize the states is not Canada.

a couple years back i was staying at a camp. it never once crossed my mind to be afraid for my safety unlike if i am in Victoria after 10 at night and want to go from one club to another mins down the street.

you literally have to take a cab 2 blocks and you dare not go off Douglas street after dark anymore at all.

i am not trying to fkn paper over anything. i am saying it's bs trying to portray pipeliners here in Canada as genocidal maniacs. and i am also saying; trying to depict Valemount as weak and scared and remote is bs too.

40 thousand vehicles at least go by every day. it's a main corridor which makes it a tactical position to blockade.

Sun, 2019-06-23 13:49

(Reply to #130) #131

Misfit

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
though by showing more concern for arguments about confining workers to camps than people who actually have been murdered

That's a very right-wing way to put it.

Are you saying that we shouldn’t be concerned about women getting raped and murdered? And concern for murdered and raped women is somehow right-wing?

All you are trying to do is give right-wing a good name.

Sun, 2019-06-23 14:12

#132

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
Are you saying that we shouldn’t be concerned about women getting raped and murdered? And concern for murdered and raped women is somehow right-wing?

No, not at all.

Just that the contest between basic freedoms and "safety" is a common right wing rhetorical device. "Do you care more about a bunch of criminals' rights, or their victims???" or "What matters more to you... some refugees, or our safety????"

Concern for murders isn't "right wing". Using the spectre of those murders to justify curtailing a few rights here and there (while implying that if we think we're good people then we should be concerned solely with those murders) is.

Sun, 2019-06-23 15:14

#133

cco

Especially if the policy prescription is racial and gender segregation – both of which have been justified by right-wingers all over the world in the name of "safety". Canada's no exception. Have people already forgotten the pass system?

Sun, 2019-06-23 22:29

#134

Pondering

Pipeliners in general are not being maligned. The ones who go into small towns to raise hell. The MMIWG found that it does happen right here in Canada.

Maybe the town wouldn't want to resrict workers because it stimulates their economy. Whether or not workers are restricted for the safety of local women is besides the point.

What is being said here is that the MMIWG report is wrong. It isn't true. It isn't happening. It was made up. If that is the case then we can't trust anything in the report. It's kindling.

Mon, 2019-06-24 02:23

#135

6079_Smith_W

Remember the pass system? That's a fucking laugh.

Here are the five recommendations that relate to these camps:

Calls for Extractive and Development Industries:

13.1 We call upon all resource-extraction and development industries to consider the safety and security of Indigenous women, girls, and 2SLGBTQQIA people, as well as their equitable benefit from development, at all stages of project planning, assessment, implementation, management, and monitoring.

13.2 We call upon all governments and bodies mandated to evaluate, approve, and/or monitor development projects to complete gender-based socio-economic impact assessments on all proposed projects as part of their decision making and ongoing monitoring of projects. Project proposals must include provisions and plans to mitigate risks and impacts identified in the impact assessments prior to being approved.

13.3 We call upon all parties involved in the negotiations of impact-benefit agreements related to resource-extraction and development projects to include provisions that address the impacts of projects on the safety and security of Indigenous women, girls, and 2SLGBTQQIA people. Provisions must also be included to ensure that Indigenous women and 2SLGBTQQIA people equitably benefit from the projects.

13.4 We call upon the federal, provincial, and territorial governments to fund further inquiries and studies in order to better understand the relationship between resource extraction and other development projects and violence against Indigenous women, girls, and 2SLGBTQQIA people. At a minimum, we support the call of Indigenous women and leaders for a public inquiry into the sexual violence and racism at hydroelectric projects in northern Manitoba.

13.5 We call upon resource-extraction and development industries and all governments and service providers to anticipate and recognize increased demand on social infrastructure because of development projects and resource extraction, and for mitigation measures to be identified as part of the planning and approval process. Social infrastructure must be expanded and service capacity built to meet the anticipated needs of the host communities in advance of the start of projects. This includes but is not limited to ensuring that policing, social services, and health services are adequately staffed and resourced.

https://aptnnews.ca/2019/06/03/read-the-national-mmiwg-inquirys-calls-fo...

Do you see anything in there about confining workers to their camps? I don't; though I am not surprised at the hair on fire reaction at being asked to take any responsibility. In case you missed my point, when government tables a law to turn these into concentration camps and we actually have something to whine about please let me know, Magoo.

In the meantime the numbers on the other side continue to rise.

Yes quizzical, here in Canada too. The difference is that in the states Enbridge has been forced to deal with it.

https://www.thestar.com/edmonton/2018/12/04/link-between-rural-work-camp...

And the 2017 report by the Firelight Group into the connection between work camps and violence against Indigenous women:

http://www.thefirelightgroup.com/firelightmaterials/wp-content/uploads/2...

So no, it isn't kindling. But no surprise there are plenty of people who simply don't want to recognize clear findings, or want to make this all about howthey think it is going to inconvenience us.

The pass system? We are talking about Indigenous communities wanting to protect the small pieces of land we used the pass system to pen them into. Do you realize how ridiculous and hypocritical it is to turn that around and pretend we are the ones being abused?

And doubly ridiculous because no one is actually planning to do it. Someone here mentioned not serving them in stores, and now some of you are running with this made up nonsense.

Mon, 2019-06-24 02:28

#136

6079_Smith_W

Though if you want a real story about someone getting abused in a store, here's one:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/confrontation-canadian-tire-...

Mon, 2019-06-24 06:14

#137

quizzical

Smith i am mainly talking about bs kanahus is spreading about Valemount and pipeliners.

not only are we not remote there's no fkn camp here.

you go one running off at your mouth when you never even been to a camp and ignore those of us who have all you fkn want. it's still bs.

Mon, 2019-06-24 07:56

#138

NDPP

Pipeline Approval Will Ignite Local Construction Boom

https://www.therockymountaingoat.com/2019/06/pipeline-approval-will-igni...

'...Once construction is underway a worker camp of 500 people is planned for the Valemount area, near the industrial park south of town..."

Mon, 2019-06-24 09:32

#139

6079_Smith_W

Quizzical, I just said I worked in treeplanting camps. It was for four years back in the 90s, and I have friends who still plant. As I explained, we did experience a town where we were not welcome. I don't know if this might have been because of some past bad experience or not.

What I didn't explain is the amount of drunkenness in camp, general threats against women, and one incident that ended in one woman worker leaving. And through that season half a dozen guys got fired for drunkenness.

Not that one has to have first-hand experience; you have your anecdotes and I have mine. What is more important is that we have those reports I cited that show a clear connection between work camps and violence against women. People here can accept them or not, but they are record of a large systemic problem.

As for these nonsense claims about confining workers to camps, that is a complete fiction.

Mon, 2019-06-24 10:22

#140

quizzical

NDPP the permit to put a camp in has expired as your last article you posted showed.

no new permit has been applied for and it's not likely they will even apply for one again. reasons for the last application no longer exist.

Smith camps these days, not like 20 years ago, are dry camps.

tree planters are not pipeliners ffs.

Mon, 2019-06-24 12:08

#141

6079_Smith_W

Yes, how dare I compare those nice pipeliners to big bad treeplanters.

The problems identified in these reports aren't about what happens in camp. As for how clean the industry is:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/suncor-drug-alcohol-test-1.4424061

I don't know if you have ever heard of the drug problem along highway 16, but it is common knowledge here. As to why some of those camps are now dry, perhaps it is because of the situation reported in this 2007 Edmonton Journal article:

http://oilsandstruth.org/alberta-cocaine-easier-buy-pizza

Mon, 2019-06-24 12:34

#142

voice of the damned

Oil Sands Truth's tweaked headline for the article...

In Alberta, Cocaine Easier to Buy than Pizza ("In Alberta" added by the website)

And the basis for this province-wide generalization?

"I could get it quicker than I could get a pizza," says Ken, not his real name.

So, one guy in a town with lots of drug dealers says he can get cocaine quicker than pizza, and from this we are supposed to conclude that everyone in the province has easier access to cocaine than they do to a phone for calling pizza delivery.

Personally, I consider myself fairly streetwise, but living in Edmonton, I wouldn't have known where to go to buy cocaine at a moment's notice, and even if someone gave me the info, I don't think I would have felt safe venturing into said environs.

And I'm pretty sure you can talk to people in other provinces who have easy access to cocaine. Probably quicker than a pizza delivery, if you know the right people.

Mon, 2019-06-24 13:54

(Reply to #142) #143

quizzical

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Yes, how dare I compare those nice pipeliners to big bad treeplanters.

The problems identified in these reports aren't about what happens in camp. As for how clean the industry is:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/suncor-drug-alcohol-test-1.4424061

I don't know if you have ever heard of the drug problem along highway 16, but it is common knowledge here. As to why some of those camps are now dry, perhaps it is because of the situation reported in this 2007 Edmonton Journal article:

http://oilsandstruth.org/alberta-cocaine-easier-buy-pizza

you do know Suncor is not a pipeline company right?

i live on hwy 16 corridor, well 29km from junction. but right on hwy 5.

2007 article really?

Mon, 2019-06-24 14:08

#144

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
In case you missed my point, when government tables a law to turn these into concentration camps and we actually have something to whine about please let me know, Magoo.

Not sure why you tagged me on this. All I did was point out your "don't you care more about the murder victims???" rhetoric.

That said, do you have any stats on these murder victims you could share with us? I mean actual statistics on the number of women murdered by camp workers. A link? A name?

Mon, 2019-06-24 14:38

#145

6079_Smith_W

I tagged you Magoo, because you accused me of making a right-wing argument. I thought I explained pretty clearly that there is no confinement happening, so your concern is based on nothing of substance at all.

And why should I post anything more if you clearly aren't reading any of the information I have posted already? There are stats on sexual assault in that firelight study.

And quizzical, if you live on the #16, as I do, then you should be aware of the problem. And if the camps are dry now, then maybe the fact there was a problem in 2007 (and still is) has something to do with it.

https://www.jwnenergy.com/article/2017/1/overdoses-rise-bc-oilfield-medi...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-s-remote-work-camps-...

Fake news?

Mon, 2019-06-24 15:37

#146

quizzical

Smith so which is it remote camps or hwy 16?

again i am speaking about the alleged camp going in here, my experience with pipelines and pipeliners.

not Suncor camps and fracking and oil sands workers.

Mon, 2019-06-24 16:01

#147

6079_Smith_W

Given the weight of evidence, I'd say it is a general problem, quizzical. I don't doubt that you are telling the truth, and that workers in your neighbourhood conduct themselves like sunday school kids, but that doesn't seem to be the case in the U.S., or elsewhere here in Canada.

And I don't buy the line that it is all that different based on the industry, or that things are completely different than they were 10 years ago.

We have a number of studies showing that this is a serious and widespread problem. If for some reason your neighbourhood is entirely different, well I'd say it is an exception to the rule. Because there seems to be a big problem in other places.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/expected-increase-in-violence-from...

Amnesty International's report into the effects of B.C. resource work on Indigenous communities and women:

https://www.amnesty.ca/outofsight

Should I even bother posting this? Is anyone paying attention to this information?

Mon, 2019-06-24 16:03

#148

kropotkin1951

Quizzical at present you are correct that Trans Mountain has not announced its construction plans. Saying there is going to be a camp in either Valemont or Blue River and what size they will be is indeed merely speculation. If this project is not stopped then I suspect that not much of the construction plan will change except the timelines that may be accelerated which in fact will lead to larger camps.

Blue River where the Tiny House Warriors are living is beside an area owned by Transmountain and already designated as a potential camp. Camps there and in Valemont have not been announced or finalized but they are both in the construction plan that was put on hold so she is obviously assuming they will go ahead as planned, a premature assumption but not a fraudulent or outrageous one.

On February 22, 2019, the National Energy Board (NEB) delivered its Reconsideration report to the Government of Canada, with an overall recommendation that the Trans Mountain Expansion Project is in the Canadian public interest and should be approved. The Project will be subject to 156 conditions enforceable by the NEB.

We will provide a new Project timeline once one becomes available.

https://www.transmountain.com/general-construction#entry:882#timeline

https://www.transmountain.com/valemount?b=52.814%2C-119.287%2C52.821%2C-...

Mon, 2019-06-24 17:58

(Reply to #148) #149

Paladin1

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Calls for Extractive and Development Industries:

13.1 We call upon all resource-extraction and development industries to consider the safety and security of Indigenous women, girls, and 2SLGBTQQIA people, as well as their equitable benefit from development, at all stages of project planning, assessment, implementation, management, and monitoring.

13.2 We call upon all governments and bodies mandated to evaluate, approve, and/or monitor development projects to complete gender-based socio-economic impact assessments on all proposed projects as part of their decision making and ongoing monitoring of projects. Project proposals must include provisions and plans to mitigate risks and impacts identified in the impact assessments prior to being approved.

13.3 We call upon all parties involved in the negotiations of impact-benefit agreements related to resource-extraction and development projects to include provisions that address the impacts of projects on the safety and security of Indigenous women, girls, and 2SLGBTQQIA people. Provisions must also be included to ensure that Indigenous women and 2SLGBTQQIA people equitably benefit from the projects.

13.4 We call upon the federal, provincial, and territorial governments to fund further inquiries and studies in order to better understand the relationship between resource extraction and other development projects and violence against Indigenous women, girls, and 2SLGBTQQIA people. At a minimum, we support the call of Indigenous women and leaders for a public inquiry into the sexual violence and racism at hydroelectric projects in northern Manitoba.

13.5 We call upon resource-extraction and development industries and all governments and service providers to anticipate and recognize increased demand on social infrastructure because of development projects and resource extraction, and for mitigation measures to be identified as part of the planning and approval process. Social infrastructure must be expanded and service capacity built to meet the anticipated needs of the host communities in advance of the start of projects. This includes but is not limited to ensuring that policing, social services, and health services are adequately staffed and resourced.

Why was 2SLGBTQQIA included in this report? Wasn't it supposed to be about Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls? Are they talking about Indigenous 2SLGBTQQIA people or just all 2SLGBTQQIA ?

Mon, 2019-06-24 18:15

#150

6079_Smith_W

The term Indigenous is right there:

"Indigenous women, girls, and 2SLGBTQQIA people"

Mon, 2019-06-24 18:29

#151

Paladin1

You okay buddy? You seem tense (google)

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