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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

Kropotnik wrote:

Do you think that if the UK for instance was to administer the territory again that a different ruling elite would take over or do you actually believe that the people of Hong Kong would elect a socialist government? I have met many Hong Kong ex-pats and not one of them was a socialist.  I met socialists from mainland China and Taiwan but none from Hong Kong. 

WWWTT wrote: 

Lots of supporters of the Communist Party of China in Hong Kong! 

Okay, now I'm more confused then ever. 

I guess its hard to keep up sometimes. I have never been to Hong Kong but have met many business people from Hong Kong in Richmond, as Swallow noted, they were all focused capitalists. I also met many people from mainland China and Taiwan in Burnaby working on NDP campaigns and they were socialists.

WWWTT has been to Hong Kong and has met more citizens of that city than I have. Most Hong Kong citizens were not the rich capitalists we sold Canadian passports to in the '90's. I find it telling that Hong Kong's wealth disparity is so high compared to the mainland but not surprising given the high level of avarice displayed by those business people.

I support the people of Hong Kong going into the streets and marching and banging pots and carrying signs. I do not support violence for violence sake.  Here is an article that shows that like in Canada if you get a permit your chances of getting tear gassed drop dramatically. The problem that this movement is having is what is its goal. The original extradition trigger is gone and the people of Hong Kong get to vote in elections except for Governor. Like in Taiwan the body politic is split between those who want to be independent of China and parties that want close ties to the mainland. It will be interesting to see if this movement gets leaders who can take it on a path that makes sense.

In the end though the people of Hong Kong will get as much control over their fate from the Chinese central government as the Greek people got from the Troika when  they defied the ruling elite in a "democracy".

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3023231/thousands-t...

VOTD:

1) Nobody on this board is calling for the restoration of Crown Colony status for Hong Kong.

2) While spelling flames are normally not cool on this board, and while Kropotkin and I are in disagreement on this situation, could you STOP spelling Kropotkin's name as "Kropotnik"?  I'm bringing it up because it looks like you're doing that on purpose to bait Kropotkin, and since the misspelling your doing there comes close to namecalling, I'm asking you, simply as another Babbler, to be better than that.  There's no reason for any of us to communicate like second-graders on the school bus with each other.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

(self-delete.  dupe post).

NorthReport

Poor naive Canadians don’t have a clue what China is really all about. Their is only one thing a dictatorship understands: the fist!

Maybe it is overdue time to revoke the citizenship of these pro-dictatorship folks and kick them out of Canada 

Imagine what would happen to Canadians if they tried this bullshit in the dictatorship called China 

voice of the damned

Ken:

The misspelling of Kropotkin's name wasn't flaming, it was brain-flatulence on my part. I can't say it was a typo, because I did notice the spelling, and thought there was something vaguely wrong with it, and I think I actually corrected it once, but I guess it came out the same way, and it's strange that I would have repeated it more than once(maybe I just copied out letter for letter after the first time), It wasn't meant as some mock-Russian "beatnik" sort of usage.

My sincere apologies to Kropotkin if he interpreted the misspelling as an attack.

As for the point that no one is advocating a return to Hong Kong's colonial status, no, I'm sure no one here is advocating that. Did something in my posts make you think I thought people were supporting that?

(Edited to correct a typo in the spelling of "typo"!)   

voice of the damned

NorthReport wrote:

Poor naive Canadians don’t have a clue what China is really all about. Their is only one thing a dictatorship understands: the fist!

Maybe it is overdue time to revoke the citizenship of these pro-dictatorship folks and kick them out of Canada 

 

Err, no, they have as much right to support a bad government overseas as any other citizen.

If non-citizens commit crimes on behalf of their favorite foreign-country, they can certainly be kicked out of Canada after serving their sentence(just as all non-citizen criminals would be), but other than that, let a hundred flowers bloom.  

cco

NorthReport wrote:

Poor naive Canadians don’t have a clue what China is really all about. Their is only one thing a dictatorship understands: the fist!

Maybe it is overdue time to revoke the citizenship of these pro-dictatorship folks and kick them out of Canada 

When I became a Canadian citizen, the oath didn't say anything about which foreign governments I wasn't allowed to (or was required to) like. Nor should it, ever.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Voice of the Damned:  Thanks for taking care of that.  Looking back on my post, I sounded a lot harsher than I meant to or should have. Sorry.

WWWTT:  I get it that you support the current model in China, and that's your call.  The fact that you support it doesn't mean that everybody on the Left should be obligated to support it, or that it's the only possible model for a socialist future.   It's just as valid to support the idea of building socialism from below, without repression, without the Party having to have the "leading role".

Most of the world wants to move to a model where people work together to create a humane, equal, and liberated future. It's in support of that model that I've said what I've said-and my views have nothing to do with anything any cynical Western capitalist types want.  

If the people of China actually, voluntarily back their existing government, that is their call. By the same token, if they want to replace it with something else, that is also their call-as should be the case with every other place on the planet, no?

 

 

NDPP

Behind A Made-For-TV Hong Kong Protest Narrative, Washington is Backing Nativism and Mob Violence

https://t.co/ywzTfRiGia

'President Trump: Please Liberate Hong Kong!' A look at the US regime-change organizations and Hong Kong oligarchs fueling the violence..."

 

Must See: Hong Kong Protesters Plead For Trump's Help (and vid)

https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/1162921511315005441

Babble and Rebel Media Unite!

 

 

NDPP

'Dan Behrman 2020: Support from Hong Kong'

https://twitter.com/DanForTexas/status/1163219234689826816

"Don't Tread On Me..."

 

'If You Want Peace Prepare For War'

https://twitter.com/Liam_Stone18/status/1163144733230686208

 

Lights, Camera Action: Roll on Stars & Stripes (Again)

https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1162926722066481153

NDPP

Between F-16 Sale To Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Tariffs, China Has No Reason To Trust US

https://on.rt.com/a035

"Hypocrisy at its finest: US wants to arm Taiwan while sounding alarm about China's influence.  'The sale of F-16s to Taiwan sends a strong message about US commitment to security and democracy in the Indo-Pacific,' the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee said on Friday in a joint statement adding they are 'pleased the Administration is moving forward' with it..."

NDPP

Read Joint Statement By Canada and the European Union on the Situation in Hong Kong

https://twitter.com/cafreeland/status/1162795684338241537

 

Opinion: Canada-EU Joint Statement On Hong Kong is Just Another Trap

https://twitter.com/CGTNOfficial/status/1163193853165342720

 

WATCH: Senior HK Resident Alerts Young Radicals to the Danger of Foreign Manipulation

https://twitter.com/CGTNOfficial/status/1163108747692036097

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

There has got to be SOME way of working out a relationship between Hong Kong and the authorities in Beijing that is neither about the vestiges of Western imperialism OR about fetishing a totally rigid notion of "unification".  There are autonomist arrangements being made all over the world between various countries...there was the concept of "sovereignty-association" between Canada and Quebec which might have been a way to preserve some sense of a unified Canada AND respect Quebec's right to self-determination.  

Why couldn't Beijing be open to some sort of  non-coercive, non-heavyhanded negotiating process with Hong Kong?   

Also...in case anybody has forgotten...the PRC has a large nuclear stockpile, so it's not as though the existing regime could actually BE overthrown.

The Western powers do need to stay the hell out of this situation-whether they secretly want an independent Hong Kong OR whether-as is equally possible-the Western powers want the power of the Party even FURTHER entrenched-because none of this is their concern.

 

voice of the damned

Ken Burch wrote:

There has got to be SOME way of working out a relationship between Hong Kong and the authorities in Beijing that is neither about the vestiges of Western imperialism OR about fetishing a totally rigid notion of "unification".  There are autonomist arrangements being made all over the world between various countries...there was the concept of "sovereignty-association" between Canada and Quebec which might have been a way to preserve some sense of a unified Canada AND respect Quebec's right to self-determination.  

Well, there IS already the one country/two systems thing, which I think currently gives Hong Kong more privileges than Quebec would have enjoyed under Meech or Charlottetown(both places considered relative to their respective metropolitans). I don't know about all the details of that arrangement, though I assume the protestors thought the extradition treary would have been a rollback on that front.

I agree that the idea of the regime in Beijing being overthrown bears little relation to reality.

NDPP

Hong Kong in the Crosshairs of Global Power and Ideological Struggles

https://popularresistance.org/hong-kong-in-the-crosshairs-of-global-powe...

 The problem is neither the extradition bill that was used to ignite protests nor China, the problems are Hong Kong's economy and governance. Building the anti-China movement in Hong Kong has been a long-term NED project since 1996 particularly among university students. With 2047 as the year for the end of the agreement with the UK, US and western nations are working toward preserving their capitalist dystopia of Hong Kong and maintaining consensus for long-term conflict with China.

 

'Oslo Freedom Forum' Trains Hong Kong Protesters (WATCH)

https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1163308152168648704

"Oh look! BBC Report on Oslo Freedom Forum train Hong Kong protesters. 'To topple a government for good, you have to be organized...as a weapon of mass destruction."

 

"Funny thing about Hong Kong Protest, it does not protest total domination of Real Estate Oligarchs that made protesters life miserable, instead anger is directed at Chinese government and Mainland Chinese people..."

https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1163399599798640640

Scroll this thread for further discussion of possible HK reforms etc...

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP wrote:

Hong Kong in the Crosshairs of Global Power and Ideological Struggles

https://popularresistance.org/hong-kong-in-the-crosshairs-of-global-powe...

 The problem is neither the extradition bill that was used to ignite protests nor China, the problems are Hong Kong's economy and governance. Building the anti-China movement in Hong Kong has been a long-term NED project since 1996 particularly among university students. With 2047 as the year for the end of the agreement with the UK, US and western nations are working toward preserving their capitalist dystopia of Hong Kong and maintaining consensus for long-term conflict with China.

Why is it so difficult for you to accept that these protests might actually be genuine, valid expressions of dissent?  You are sounding like the inverse image of all those right-wing types who argued that any and all acts of resistance against their authority were either the work of "outside agitators" or "a Communist plot".

Is it that difficult to accept that ordinary Hong Kong people might not want to be put under the absurdly excessive paranoid control freakery that Beijing applies to political and social discourse?

Why should the young in Hong Kong simply accept that "father knows best"?  

And since the PRC does everything Western capitalists want, why would you think "The West" would even want to undo anything Beijing is currently doing?

NDPP

Why is it so difficult for you to accept that these protests might actually be genuinely interfered with, weaponized, coached and steered by western interests, your country USA most notably? My posts are a full and comprehensive response to your questions. Perhaps you should  read them? Perhaps you missed the current western geopolitical full court press currently being prosecuted by any and all means necessary against China? Perhaps you haven't seen John Pilger's definitive documentary 'The Coming War With China'?  Perhaps if you were not so ideologically possessed you might actually apprehend that which is so obvious instead of just parroting the propaganda of the predators. It's not as if it's the first time after all...'Oh say can you see...?'

Bill Blum: Overthrowing Other People's Governments: The Master List

https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governmen...

WWWTT

@ Ken Burch 

Still waiting for the so called “4dead in Ohio” style crackdown from Beijing to happen in Hong Kong?

I guess when you realize what you wanted to happen fails to materialize, your going to have to reinvent your hatred of communism into something that’s more plausible in convincing  the faux “lefties” to follow your pro corporate materialism. 

NorthReport

Hong Kong’s peaceful million person march

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/hong-kong-1.5252313

NDPP

Which Hong Kong Protest Size Estimate is Right?

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/08/which-hong-kong-protest-size-estim...

"The New York Times [and CBC] further promotes the protests in Hong Kong by quoting an extravagant crowd size estimate of yesterday's march..."

 

"Isn't it interesting how the corporate media ignores these huge demonstrations in Hong Kong *AGAINST* the US-backed violence? It's like how the media ignores massive pro-gov protests here in Venezuela. I'm sure it's just a coincidence. Ignore the pattern."

https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1163565144305258496

WWWTT

The icm is very comfortable in making out right lies.
Crowd numbers is a huge lie. Another is the reason people are protesting. The icm is constantly repeating the lie that all these protesters are there because of an extradition bill that will only have any possible impact on an alleged criminal that the icm is now conveniently implying that will have no fair trials, prisoners starve to death waiting for trial and are beaten into making confessions.
And somehow for some absurd defying logic reasons, the citizens of Hong Kong are completely ok with living in poverty (a huge human rights abuse ignored by the west by the way).
Wow what a sacrifice those people in Hong Kong are making for alleged criminals!

NDPP

"Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam says Hong Kong gov will initiate fact-finding including on complaints against police violence, and dialogue with all sectors of public. This is one of the demands of protesters. Let's see if protests will continue..."

https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1163643067380842496

 

US Fingerprints All Over Hong Kong Violence

https://youtu.be/JKXvLtX7tvs

"The US never hesitates to jump on an opportunity, especially when it smells blood and there's a chance to destabilize China..."

NDPP

Anti-China Rallies in Hong Kong Accused of Pro-American Bias

https://youtu.be/ABXChBnBoOY

"The protest movement in Hong Kong started back in June over draft legislation permitting the extradition of suspects to mainland China but has since broadened to other political issues..."

NDPP

Twitter Shuts Chinese Accounts Targeting Hong Kong Protests

https://twitter.com/AlanRMacLeod/status/1163909228236627970

"Twitter has decided to unilaterally shut down 200,000 accounts it claims are 'spreading disinformation' about Hong Kong, proving once again that it can act immediately to decide what is truth and shut down accounts it doesn't like."

NDPP

Ep 119: Hong Kong Protests - Reality, Featuring Carl Zha (podcast)

http://aroundtheempire.com/2019/08/20/ep119-hong-kong-protests-reality-c...

"A wide-ranging discussion about colonial Hong Kong, the transition back to China and the social and economic changes that developed. We analyze the current Hong Kong protests, the forces at work and the prospects for a military crackdown on the Hong Kong protests or a peaceful resolution..."

NDPP

West's News Dominated By Hong Kong While Yellow Vests Largely Ignored  - Pilger (and vid)

https://on.rt.com/a0bc

"They see a challenge in China. Undoubtedly it's an economic challenge, but it's not a military challenge. This 19th century view of the world that permeates Washington and has returned to this country, the United Kingdom, has now created a war situation with China..."

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

WWWTT wrote:

@ Ken Burch 

Still waiting for the so called “4dead in Ohio” style crackdown from Beijing to happen in Hong Kong?

I guess when you realize what you wanted to happen fails to materialize, your going to have to reinvent your hatred of communism into something that’s more plausible in convincing  the faux “lefties” to follow your pro corporate materialism. 

I don't want it to happen, just as I didn't want the unjustified attack on the Tien An Men protesters to happen, just as I didn't want Brezhnev to send in the tanks to crush the Prague Spring, or Kruschev to do the same in Budapest, or Stalin in East Berlin, or to have the Red Army put Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary and the DDR under what turned out to be four years of military occupation.  I don't want any regime, of any ideology, every to put down protest with violence and I want all regimes, of all ideologies, to be open to all nonviolent movements for change.

And I don't "hate communism".  I hate brutality.  The original small-c vision of communism that Lenin murdered at Krondstadt is still resonant.  What is your problem with THAT vision?  Why can you not accept that-in addition to there being no justification for any regime anywhere to use methods of violent repression-no regime that claims to be part of the Left in any sense has any justification for using violent repression?

Every repressive act committed by Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and their acolytes was indefensibly wrong.

It's time for the Left to move past that now.

And nothing I've said or supported has ever been "pro-corporate".  It's ridiculous to assume that the only way to be anti-corporate is to defend everything every done by any government that claims to be "socialist" or "communist".

And there's no chance that the Chinese government could be overthrown by "The West" anyway.  Governments with nuclear stockpiles don't GET overthrown.

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Why couldn't the Chinese government simply have agreed to what the protesters asked?  

It's not as though Beijing has to be able to extradite political dissidents just to stay in power.

 

cco

Ken Burch wrote:

And there's no chance that the Chinese government could be overthrown by "The West" anyway.  Governments with nuclear stockpiles don't GET overthrown.

The Soviet government will be surprised to hear that.

NorthReport

What an idiot!

Canadians need to smarten up who they are electing to office, eh!

Former Ontario Liberal cabinet minister headlines pro-Beijing rally near Toronto

The event Michael Chan headlined was part of what appears to be a worldwide effort to rally the Chinese diaspora against the Hong Kong demonstrators

 

https://o.canada.com/news/former-ontario-liberal-cabinet-minister-headlines-pro-beijing-rally-near-toronto/wcm/bdb0d260-08cd-4834-98c5-b620be9e00c9

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

Why couldn't the Chinese government simply have agreed to what the protesters asked?  

It's not as though Beijing has to be able to extradite political dissidents just to stay in power.

 

They did the extradition treaty has been off the table for weeks. It was always a red herring. Thje problem now is there are no real demands that could be realistically dealt with.

Ken the problem is that my preferred system would be syndicalism however that view is not shared by the majority of Canadians nor the majority of China's population.  I find it extremely telling that all your examples of brutal regimes are non-capitalist. Your world view has exceptional blinders.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

cco wrote:
Ken Burch wrote:

And there's no chance that the Chinese government could be overthrown by "The West" anyway.  Governments with nuclear stockpiles don't GET overthrown.

The Soviet government will be surprised to hear that.

It wasn't actually overthrown.  Gorbachev agreed to disband the USSR because it had become unsustainable.  There was no way to have kept the USSR going in that situation.  And clearly, the Warsaw Pact states could not have survived any longer without a massive bloodbath-what good would have COME of having them to survive if the only way to do so was for tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of people to be slaughtered by the Red Army.

What happened in that place was on the stubborn, bloodyminded Stalinist bureaucrats who had spent decades preventing any change from happening and had made the people of the Warsaw Pact live under military occupation for forty years when those people had done nothing to deserve that.

The lesson is that socialism can't be built from above, through coercion, through censorship, through wiretapping every room and sending out the secret police to surveille everyone.

It needs to be built gently and humanely, from below.

I believe the people of China are capable of making their own decisions and should be allowed to do so.  But that's "the people", not "the state".

Trust the people.  

Everywhere.

NorthReport

The sooner Canadians realize what China is really all about, as opposed to some make believe fantasy, the better off we will all be.

I'm no big rah, rah Freeland fan, but this is indeed outrageous on the part of Dictatorship China

 ‘A warning’: China’s central television takes direct aim at Canada’s Foreign Minister

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-a-warning-chinas-central-television-takes-direct-aim-at-canadian/

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

Why couldn't the Chinese government simply have agreed to what the protesters asked?  

It's not as though Beijing has to be able to extradite political dissidents just to stay in power.

 

 

They did the extradition treaty has been off the table for weeks. It was always a red herring. Thje problem now is there are no real demands that could be realistically dealt with.

Ken the problem is that my preferred system would be syndicalism however that view is not shared by the majority of Canadians nor the majority of China's population.  I find it extremely telling that all your examples of brutal regimes are non-capitalist. Your world view has exceptional blinders.

Clearly, you don't understand my worldview.

I have attacked capitalist regimes in many places and times and will continue to do so.  

I agree that the economic leadership of "the West", a leadership which matters far more than our supposed political leadership in the current scheme of things, needs to be brought down.

Nothing China is doing, however, can bring the Western economic leadership down-my own view is that China doesn't want Western capitalism brought down-and replacing Western-style repression with Chinese-style repression would not be a gain for the working and non-working poor.  None of what is good in the Chinese model DEPENDS on what is bad.  No state has to repress and censor just to be able to feed people.

In this thread, I've talked mainly about China, that is true-that is because this is a thread about China.

I simply don't regard China as a socialist state-as I've made clear, I didn't regard the USSR as socialist or communist in any way after 1924, though I join all others who salute the courage of the Red Army at Staliningrad and in the liberationo of the camps and of Berlin.

And I've said, IN THIS THREAD, that the US and "the West" need to stay the hell out of this situation, since their intentions cannot be trusted.  Nothing that goes on in China is the business of the Western economic and political establishment at all.

If the extradition law is off the books, that's good.  It's a victory for the protesters.  By the same token, sending in the PLA to force an end to the demonstrations should also be off the books.  Beijing just needs to back off on this one-just as every "liberal" American mayor who sicced the cops on Occupy should have backed off and left that alone.

And as to syndicalism...I think the possibility of a syndicalist future is growing as the number of co-ops grows.  The existence of worker-controlled enterprises is teaching people that an economy can be run on a basis other than greed or coercion.  Practical examples like that can teach millions, maybe tens of millions.

As to how popular syndicalism is in Canada, or the US, or China-well, how can we KNOW how popular it is?  No polling agency polls on the popularity of syndicalist ideas, and in China people can't express support for syndicalism without putting themselves in danger of a long prisoin sentence.

It's not likely that Market Stalinism is more popular in Canada and the U.S. than syndicalism is, though.

My point as to brutal regimes is this:

As people of the left, we know that there have been horrific, bloody perversions of what we stand for.  Those of us who work for socialist or syndicalist transformation in this era have an obligation to make it clear that we get it that nothing we stand for ever justified the brutality of the USSR and Mao's China, and that, as we continue the fight for a transformed world, we get it that the methods used by those states have no place in the world the left is trying to construct-that, from the start, projects that call themseves "Left" need to make it clear that there are some things that should never have been done and must never be done again.

And obviously, OBVIOUSLY, the West has been equally brutal and every aspect of its current political and economic structure needs to be brought down.

But how can any authoritarian, paranoia-and-secrecy-driven model bring those structures down?

We should be working for a world with NO empires.

That's why I've said what I've said.

Is any of that truly unreasonable?

 

voice of the damned

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

Why couldn't the Chinese government simply have agreed to what the protesters asked?  

It's not as though Beijing has to be able to extradite political dissidents just to stay in power.

 

They did the extradition treaty has been off the table for weeks. It was always a red herring. Thje problem now is there are no real demands that could be realistically dealt with.

Ken the problem is that my preferred system would be syndicalism however that view is not shared by the majority of Canadians nor the majority of China's population.  I find it extremely telling that all your examples of brutal regimes are non-capitalist. Your world view has exceptional blinders.

It's not as if Ken was asked ro provide a list of repressive governments, and replied with "Stalin's USSR and Mao's China". Rather, WWWTT accused him of hating Communism, thus making Ken's views on Communist regimes, in particular, the immediate subject of discussion. Ken replied by acknowleding his dislike of certain features of certain Communist governments, and gave pre-Kronstadt communism as an example of a socialist vision he agrees with. 

Make of that what you will, but it does not in any way indicate that Ken thinks only non-capitalist governments behave in a brutal fashion. If someone accuses me of hating Christianity, and I reply "Well, I certainly don't like the Crusades, the Inquisition or the witch-burnings, but I like the teachings of Jesus and the early church", that's not in any way denying that the Hindu caste system is awful, or Buddhist militias in Sri Lanka do some bad stuff,

voice of the damned

Cross-posted with Ken, it seems.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

voice of the damned wrote:

Cross-posted with Ken, it seems.

Thanks, though.  I truly don't understand the dynamic in this thread-you'd think the survival of the Chinese government was somehow entirely in my hands.  

NDPP

Hong Kong Demos 'Straight Out Of Ukraine Playbook'

https://youtu.be/6n1eNqfbHLs

"Former UK MP George Galloway weighs in on the latest Hong Kong protests as the Chinese detain a UK consulate worker."

 

China Warns Canada To 'Stop Its Wrongdoing' Over Meng Wanzhou Arrest, Hong Kong Comments (and vid)

https://globalnews.ca/news/5793653/china-comments-canada-meng-wanzhou-ar...

"China issued a stern warning to Canada and Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland following her statement over the weekend condemning the violence in Hong Kong and the continuing detention of Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou, stating the Canadian government should 'stop its wrongdoing' before it's too late.' On Tuesday, China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said the Canadian government 'has made irresponsible remarks' and 'grossly interefered in China's internal affairs. 'Attempts to create chaos and undermine Hong Kong's prosperity and stability will never win the support of the people and are doomed to fail,' Shuang said... '

US Sec State and former CIA head Pompeo visits tomorrow - as always Canada will 'follow the leader'. Here's a little music for those who have decided to tag along...

https://youtu.be/TKAwPA14Ni4

NorthReport

What kind of sick shit is China’s tyrannical government up to now?

Canadians need to stop being so bloody naive and get a clue what the Chinese government is all about

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/paranoia-and-panic-at-cathay-pacific-chinas-threats-loom-over-one-of-asias-leading-airlines/2019/08/21/fba1d324-c3f2-11e9-8bf7-cde2d9e09055_story.html%3foutputType=amp

NorthReport

Cathay Pacific should quietly slowly but firmly begin the process of relocating their headquarters out of Hong Kong to get away from these Chinese government thugs. There are lots of other places, Manila for example, that would love to have a Cathay headquartered there. The important thing is to not give these tyrannical bullies an inch.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/paranoia-and-panic-at-cathay-pacific-chinas-threats-loom-over-one-of-asias-leading-airlines/2019/08/21/fba1d324-c3f2-11e9-8bf7-cde2d9e09055_story.html%3foutputType=amp

NorthReport

Good!

The sooner this rigid, old time, out of date, bully government is shown the fist, the better off our planet will be.

https://thebreaker.news/news/podcast-95/

 

NDPP

Re: "Good!"

FOX News Exclusive: Activist Warns Hong Kong is On The Brink of Bloodshed, Says Fight For Democracy is Far From Over

https://youtu.be/57TSKaIBge4

US/NED pocket-puppet Joshua W[r]ong tells Faux News he is willing to meet with Chinese president...

 

Hong Kong Gets New US-Backed Party

https://journal-neo.org/2016/04/18/hong-kong-gets-new-us-backed-party/

"...Freedom House marks its 75th anniversary by honoring three generations of Hong Kong democracy leaders: Joshua Wong, Benny Tai and Martin CM Lee. The notion that Wong's new party, 'Demosisto,' stands for Hong Kong's 'self-determination' is an absolute absurdity. During the Freedom House event, all three US-backed agitators admitted that their work sought not only to influence Hong Kong, but to serve as a vector for their political movement to make its way deeper into mainland China..."

WWWTT

NorthReport wrote:

Cathay Pacific should quietly slowly but firmly begin the process of relocating their headquarters out of Hong Kong to get away from these Chinese government thugs. There are lots of other places, Manila for example, that would love to have a Cathay headquartered there. The important thing is to not give these tyrannical bullies an inch.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/paranoia-and-panic-at-cathay-pacific-chinas-threats-loom-over-one-of-asias-leading-airlines/2019/08/21/fba1d324-c3f2-11e9-8bf7-cde2d9e09055_story.html%3foutputType=amp

I’ve flown Cathay pacific. Around 6 times. Direct Toronto to Hong Kong. Great service but the 15.5 hour flight, competition from Hai Nan and their limited flights are cutting into their business. There used to be two daily direct flights from Pearson but now there’s only one. Should also note that of all airline companies in Communist China (35), the government doesn’t own the controlling share in 9. The government however owns shares in all 35 Chinese airlines.
From my observations the stewards/stewardesses on yyz hgk flights carry Chinese or Canadian passports.
North Report is using a icm link for this story. Big strike right there. Secondly, western countries do the exact same thing the Washington post is accusing China of. Thirdly, freeland’s big yappy mouth is probably making it more difficult for Canadians travelling into China. But hey that’s the sacrifice Canadians have to make when voting liberal.
Also CP had a huge data hack over a year ago. This alone would raise alarm bells with the Chinese government

NorthReport

Typical Chinese government talking points and not a word about what Cathay Pacific employees are being subjected to by these thugs. I just wonder what you are doing on a progressive board like this

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Typical Chinese government talking points and not a word about what Cathay Pacific employees are being subjected to by these thugs. I just wonder what you are doing on a progressive board like this

This is an open board. You spam it with right wing drivel day after day but you think your world view is "progressive." You are the stereotype of someone who is totally in the thrall of the US propaganda machine.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

NorthReport wrote:

The sooner Canadians realize what China is really all about, as opposed to some make believe fantasy, the better off we will all be.

I'm no big rah, rah Freeland fan, but this is indeed outrageous on the part of Dictatorship China

 ‘A warning’: China’s central television takes direct aim at Canada’s Foreign Minister

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-a-warning-chinas-central-television-takes-direct-aim-at-canadian/

Freeland is a CIA plant so why shouldn't everyone on this board decry her war mongering and militaristic viewpoint. She is a nasty jingoistic attack dog for a viscous empire, the worst Foreign Minister in my lifetime.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Okay, I can understand you not liking Freeland and opposing her politically. But a CIA plant? That's way over the top, unless you care to back that up with something concrete.

NorthReport

krop

Your ludicrous purity tests exemplify the reasons the left is on the losing end of so many political contests. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Timebandit wrote:

Okay, I can understand you not liking Freeland and opposing her politically. But a CIA plant? That's way over the top, unless you care to back that up with something concrete.

That is my opinion. I may be wrong, she make work for some other US agency in the imperial deep state. Her claim to fame seems to be she wrote a puff piece after hobnobbing with the rich and famous from that oligarchy.

NDPP

The CIA didn't have to 'plant' her. She truly represents their values held in common by the Canadian faux-liberal, pro-imperialist set that pretends to run with the hares but in the end  hunts with the hounds. Like her, they may present as 'feminist foreign policy' progressives but always support 'rules-based-international order', status quo imperialist hegemony.  Hence Israel is untouchable, Sinophobia is all the rage and Canadian sovereignty or an independent foreign policy is unthinkable.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Timebandit wrote:

Okay, I can understand you not liking Freeland and opposing her politically. But a CIA plant? That's way over the top, unless you care to back that up with something concrete.

That is my opinion. I may be wrong, she make work for some other US agency in the imperial deep state. Her claim to fame seems to be she wrote a puff piece after hobnobbing with the rich and famous from that oligarchy.

I think that any contact she may have had with the CIA was merely incidental to her career of writing propaganda for the billionaire class.

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