United Kingdom 2

Good one cco!

BBC Reports

https://youtu.be/hBPwHJjfQNY

"Public support prorogation..."

"This huge Commission building in Brussels, in the shape of a cross, is absolutely un-British. I felt as if I were going as a slave to Rome; The whole relationship was wrong. Here was I, an elected man who could be removed, doing a job, and here were these people with more power than I had and no accountability to anybody. My visit confirmed in a practical way all my suspicions that this would be the decapitation of British democracy without any countervailing advantage, and the British people, quite rightly, wouldn't accept it..." Tony Benn, UK Labour, 1974

https://twitter.com/JAKKLomond/status/1166740124127899653

"Sections of the Left calling for a general strike to prevent the outcome of a national democratic vote from being implemented...We are truly down the rabbit hole. The general strike in 1926 was supported by miners, dockers, railway workers, printers and transport workers. The one in 2019 will be supported by Guardian journalists, liberal academics and middle-class MPs."

https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1166732278648770560

"It is beyond cognition how many Corbynites cannot see that it is in Labour's interests for Brexit to be completed BEFORE the General Election. Blinded by hysteria they have played right into Boris Johnson's hands...Because there can never be class politics as usual in Britain until Brexit is done. Isn't that obvious? From the din, from the polls, from common sense? I wouldn't have started from here mate. But five days less time wasting in parliament is way less of a coup than what's been happening to wreck Brexit for over three years. I don't want this parliament to be prorogued, I want it to be dissolved."

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1166998062557990912

NDPP wrote:

"It is beyond cognition how many Corbynites cannot see that it is in Labour's interests for Brexit to be completed BEFORE the General Election. Blinded by hysteria they have played right into Boris Johnson's hands...Because there can never be class politics as usual in Britain until Brexit is done. Isn't that obvious? From the din, from the polls, from common sense? I wouldn't have started from here mate. But five days less time wasting in parliament is way less of a coup than what's been happening to wreck Brexit for over three years. I don't want this parliament to be prorogued, I want it to be dissolved."

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1166998062557990912

Galloway, who is actively supporting Farage's Brexit Party, is not terribly credible on this issue.

Though there are sound arguments from the left why "remain" is a bad option, any enthusiasm for "leave" is unwarranted. Galloway's rejection of anti-Brexit "hysteria" is certainly matched by his own pro-Brexit "hysteria".

The arguments from both sides are naive in expectations for their side, with opposing left views usually suppressed. The prime pro-Brexit illusion being that the people of the UK will have greater independence outside the EU. This presumes there will somehow be a functioning democracy rather than the established simulcrum managed by transnational corporate and security state interests. 

The UK state is already subserviant to the US empire more than any other EU state. Greater US integration and ceding of independence to the US under Brexit, in economy, military obedience and greater killing of social and environmental responsibilty is pretty clear, with some of the US demands already on record. 

There would be different corporate winners and losers with Brexit or no Brexit, the increasing predations of psuedo-democratic neoliberalism will not be thwarted by a leave. 

NDPP wrote:

The Fake Workerism of Remainiacs

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/08/29/the-fake-workerism-of-remainiacs/

"There is nothing left-wing or anti-austerity about over-turning Brexit..."

"There is nothing left-wing or anti-austerity about"

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Spiked

Which is why those who slandered the man on antisemitism need to admit he and his supporters are innocent on that, and also need to admit that the interim government is the only way to get a second referendum-not that there's any good reason to still be pushing for a second referendum since soft Brexit would save the only good parts of the arrangement while getting rid of the pointlessly antisocialist, antiworker parts.   Everyone knows a second referendum couldn't pass the current parliament as long as the Tories remain in power, and that there's nothing Corbyn could possibly do that could be worse than keeping Boris in Number 10.

Corbyn is not the problem.  The pointless hate campaign waged against Corbyn and his courageous, heroic supporters is the problem-that hate campaign should have ended, once and for all, once the 2017 results were in.  Why DIDN'T your lot end it, nicky?

A Very British Blunder

http://www.newworker.org/archive2019/nw20190830/a_very_british_blunder.html

"...Meanwhile Jeremy Corbyn's bid to win broader support for a no-confidence vote to face an early election has been diverted into a cross-party Remainer effort to block Brexit by legal challenges and procedural methods in parliament. The PM, who somewhat belatedly embraced the Brexit cause to pave his way to Downing Street, is not a committed Brexiteer. During last week's talks with the French and German leaders he apparently said that if they dropped their demand for an Irish 'backstop', he would accept Mrs May's rubbishy withdrawal plan that would keep Britain within the EU in all but name. He doubtlessly warned them that if they refused they could end up dealing with a 'left'-led Corbyn government. But he still came back empty-handed.

The leaders of Franco-German imperialism clearly have no interest in bailing out the Johnson government. It is equally clear that they believe that the Johnson government can be brought down. Whether that government is led by Corbyn is a matter of indifference to Brussels. They easily bought off the Syriza government in Greece and they no doubt think they can do the same with Labour. All that matters is that the current government is replaced by a new administration that will call for a second referendum to reverse the historic decision to leave the EU. Johnson is falling into a Remainer trap..."

Perhaps not 'falling'.

The BOE's Crooked Canadian Boss

https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1166455297717809152

"Mark Carney is facing questions over a 'secret' trip to Silicon Valley for a meeting with the billionaire founder of Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg. Carney met Zuckerberg before 'Libra' cryptocurrency was unveiled..."

Big Bankster Carney's Goldman Sachs senior partner chops continue to serve him in good stead as he perhaps prepares for what may turn out to be an uncertain but possibly very profitable Humpty Dumpty economic future. For his class. Not ours.

Give it a rest Ken

how by saying that Labour moderates would like to win an election can i possibly be said to concede some of your bizarre notions?  

nicky wrote:

Give it a rest Ken

how by saying that Labour moderates would like to win an election can i possibly be said to concede some of your bizarre notions?  

I asked why the anti-Corbynites didn't give up their hate campaign after 2017.  Your response was an admission that the anti-Corbyn effort was and is a hate campaign-that it has been grounded in accusations that Corbyn abetted a form of bigotry everyone knows he has fought against all his life, that it has been grounded in lies about the 2015 referendum, in the claim that Corbyn could have prevented the Leave victory, even though all of you know it could not have been prevented given the out of touch and essentially reactionary campaign the Remain forces carried out, and in an irrational demand that Corbyn center the fight for a second referendum when they knew it was impossible to get any MORE votes for the second referendum while the Tories stayed in power.

And if the "Labour moderates" wanted to win elections, they wouldn't have kept attacking and slandering Corbyn and kept trying to force him to resign as leader DURING the campaign, even though it's impossible for a political party to change leaders once an election has been called, and they wouldn't have demanded that Corbyn adopt rules that would, as you would have to concede, would have made it impossible to express any support for Palestinian self-determination  or the humanity of the Palestinian people at all and would have forced everyone in the party to become an unquestioning public defender of Netanyahu.

If they wanted to win elections, they wouldn't have kept demanding that not only Corbyn stand down but that the MP nominations policy on leadership elections be kept in place-a policy that would be use to guarantee that only right-wing(which is what "Labour moderates" should be called, since they have no progressive or left-of-center views on any significant issues) and that Labour MPs continue to be guaranteed automatic re-selection for life-a policy which gives constituency parties no way at all to hold the MPs they work to keep in office accountable-and they wouldn't keep treating the majority of the party which supports left policies as though that majority has no right to have any say in what the party stands for and who leads it.

If Labour moderates wanted to win elections, they would admit that Labour can't win without left-wing votes, that most of the party at the grassroots level is on the left, and that they therefore need to accept that the party belongs to the left a least as much, if not more, as it does to the right.

How do you reckon, nicky, that the Labour Right can go on as it has and still, somehow, create a situation in which a Labour victory at the polls could possibly happen?

You know full well they can't force Corbyn out and then, after doing so, retain any right to expect that the party trust and unite in support of whoever they deigne to ACCEPT as leader.

And you know full well, based on what happened on the benefit cuts votes in 2015, that the Labour Right doesn't care about the poor, isn't intereste in creating a society based on humane, caring, egalitarian values-it can't be humane and caring WITHOUT egalitarianism, for god's sakes-and would be unable to persuade anyone that whoever it imposed as Corbyn's replacement on a rigged, 2008 style leadership ballot could possibly be worth supporting at the polls.

How can the Labour Right possibly think it could treat a leader it doesn't like this way and then, after that, expect anybody other than the anti-Corbyn MPs themselves to back whoever it puts in place to replace that leader?  

Corbyn an his supporters never treated any leader he had disagreements with with this level of toxicity-and clearly, there was a very strong case that Kinnock, Brown, and Miliband were LESS effective as leaders than he was.  Why was it asking too much to even treat Corbyn and his supporters with a MINIMAL level of respect?  To at least acknowledge that those supporters were and are most of the party and that they have as much right to have a say as the PLP?

Snap election could be in the offing.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/02/brexit-no-10-boris-johnson-ignore-legislation-block-no-deal

Dear Corbynistas: Don't Be Blackmailed into Thwarting Brexit'

https://www.thefullbrexit.com/dear-corbynistas

"Anti-Brexit forces committed to making the Labour Party into a defender of the neoliberal status quo are gearing up to bully socialist party members to back Remain. Here's why all the arguments they are using are wrong..."

From the full Brexit link:

Brexit is simply about leaving the political and legal structures of the EU and restoring the unfettered power of parliament to make laws that govern the UK. A Tory government may well make use of this newfound freedom to enact policies the left does not like. But that government can then be voted out at the next election and a different set of policies introduced. In other words, there is nothing permanent about a “Tory Brexit” because the Tory part can always subsequently be unpicked. The only reason to believe otherwise is that one doubts the capacity of the left ever to win an election. That is merely an expression of defeatism and cowardice.

Secondly, those peddling this excuse fail to recognise that remaining within the EU would ensure that, even if the Labour Party were subsequently to win an election, it would be constrained to behave very much like the Conservative Party. As several Full Brexit contributors have repeatedly demonstrated at length, EU law binds the hands of national governments, who voluntarily surrender their sovereignty as a condition of membership, preventing even mildly socialist policies like nationalisation, state aid and capital controls (see Proposal #2 - Quit the Single Market; Analysis #33 - Nationalisation and the Fraud of “Remain and Reform”). Short-term fear of a Tory government therefore promises to destroy the prospects for even modest social-democratic reform in Britain. The Blairite wing of the Labour Party must be delighted.

Tory MP Phillip Lee defects to Lib Dems, leaving UK government with no working majority in Commons

But maybe not that strange when one considers people were rooting for Trump here in 2016.

Left opposition to the EU, both now and historically, has been discussed extensively on this and other threads.

josh wrote:

Left opposition to the EU, both now and historically, has been discussed extensively on this and other threads.

Maybe Nigel and Boris have been reading Babble?!?!

NDPP wrote:

Dear Corbynistas: Don't Be Blackmailed into Thwarting Brexit'

https://www.thefullbrexit.com/dear-corbynistas

"Anti-Brexit forces committed to making the Labour Party into a defender of the neoliberal status quo are gearing up to bully socialist party members to back Remain. Here's why all the arguments they are using are wrong..."

Thanks for that. A cut and paste without comment but a fine illustration of my previous points.

It's a typical article of the more blindered cheerleaders for a hard Brexit. 

In its  3 sections refuting "the main arguments for Remain", the US, the only global economic/military hegemon doesn't even merit a passing mention, let alone a refutation.  The invisible rampaging elephant in the room.

Throwing off the yoke of EU, consists of a "sovereignty" comprised of US  total, rather than partial, dominance. I suppose the hard Brexit activists Bolton and Trump are only interested in freedom and soverenty of Britan --just as they are with are with all other nations they watch over?

If you can make an argument actually  addressing and dismissing the role of the US in post hard Brexit, I will certainly read it. 

Tory rebels and opposition MPs have defeated the government in the first stage of their attempt to pass a law designed to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

The Commons voted 328 to 301 to take control of the agenda, meaning they can bring forward a bill seeking to delay the UK's exit date.

In response, Boris Johnson said he would bring forward a motion for an early general election.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49573555?ns_source=twitter&ns_mchannel=social&ocid=socialflow_twitter&ns_campaign=bbcnews

"Some of the same Labour MPs who were recently plotting with other political parties to install an unelected government in an effort to block no-deal are now refusing to support a general election called on that very question because it's a 'diversion.' Work that one out."

Easy-peasy. Because Labour collaborationists will pay dearly in a GE. This is a standard and historical EU obstructionist tactic - when people vote 'wrong' subvert the process and/or repeat the voting  until they get it 'right.' Defend EU neoliberalism at all cost by any means necessary.

https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1168638894172254210

Sounds like Johnson is having a temper-tantrum as the emperor has no clothes

When’s the date?

Today Was A Dark Day For British Democracy

https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/1169143180345917441

"If MPs have seized power from anyone this evening, it is from us, the public, the millions who voted to leave the EU. This is not parliament vs the executive - this is parliament vs the people, and it opens up one of the greatest, most troublesome constitutional crises of modern times...In essence, this evening MPs have gone some way, almost all the way, to achieving the terrible thing they have been agitating for since June 2016: stopping Brexit. That is their fundamental aim. It is essential to understand that when they talk about 'blocking No Deal,' they mean 'blocking Brexit.'

JKR wrote:

NDPP wrote:

'Our Least Finest Hour: Britain is in the Grip of Mass Hysteria!' (and vid)

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1168841066050514944

"It's no longer really about Brexit; it's about democracy. Britain needs a new Parliament..." - Galloway-

Maybe a referendum should be held specifically on a no-deal Brexit?

That was held.  The question was remain or leave.  Not leave only under certain conditions.

Not dead if the Johnson's Conservatives win an electoral majority.