NDP's Singh highly exceeds expectations and wins first debate

Where's the actual debate NR?  Sheesh...

Macleans and City TV National Leaders Debate

https://youtu.be/-LVf2CvuW8s

Thursday, Sept 12, PM Trudeau declined, Bernier excluded, May won.

I watched it on YouTube and I thought Jagmeet clearly had the best night. He was effective at highlighting the Conservative agenda for what it really is and May looked petty and over her head on more than one occasion. The panel was hilarious suggesting that she was just not up to the task. She rambled and I am sure that on at least two occasions she spouted the "corrections" on contentious issues she had learnt for the debate and then couldn't resist adding something in her own words that made her sound like she was not ready for the big table. That was especially true with the idea that indigenous infrastructure should be tied to criminal prosecutions. If she was a contender she would have known it was time to cut her losses and just say yea it was a half baked idea but I loved the symbolism of it, instead of trying to defend it like she did. It reminded me of Adrian Dix answering questions about his backdating a document. He would have practiced he answer countless times and then he went for an off the cuff reply instead.

Georgia Straight has an article presenting a positive spin on the Jagmeet's abilities to prove his centrist critics in the party wrong.

In fact, I suspect that the NDP will wind up winning more than the 14 seats than the CBC poll tracker is suggesting today.

Here's why I think the NDP has a reasonable chance of surprising people.

1. Jagmeet Singh comes across as very authentic and actually, quite likable.

2. He's the first Canadian political leader who's made antiracism a centrepiece of his campaign by promising to put an end to federal racial profiling.

3. There are a lot more antiracist, young, liberal white people in this country than many older Canadians probably realize. And many of them are feeling dealt out of a reasonable future by pipeline-loving Liberals and Conservatives who haven't done enough to make education and housing more affordable.

4. Singh is putting items in the window for the public to vote for. They include a wealth tax, national pharmacare, and the possibility of dental and vision care in the future. Plus, the party's promising a Green New Deal modelled on a similar idea gaining popularity in the United States.

5. Singh talks a lot about housing, which is what helped the B.C. NDP form government for the first time in 16 years.

6. Singh's message that it requires courage to take on Big Oil, Big Pharma, and the telecommunications giant is very compelling. It leaves an impression that Trudeau doesn't have this necessary quality. Hell, Trudeau didn't even have enough courage to show up at the first televised leaders debate on September 12.

7. Singh is replicating some farther left-wing and anti-elitist policies of politicians like the U.K.'s Jeremy Corbyn and Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Sen. Bernie Sanders in the U.S. It's an us-versus-them approach that's the diametric opposite of former U.K. prime minister Tony Blair's Third Way style of politics, which was embraced by Singh's predecessor, Tom Mulcair.

8. Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party won 262 seats in the 2017 election, a gain of 30.

9. A U.S. poll-tracking site has Sanders and Warren together at 34.1 percent support in the Democratic Party field of candidates for the presidential nomination. That's more than seven percent higher than centrist candidate Joe Biden.

10. The mainstream media applaud Blairite Third Way New Democrats, but this approach has often fallen flat in Canadian elections. That's because there's already a Blairite Third Way party in this country called the Liberals. The NDP has created more distance between them in the election.

11. The Conservatives will drive home the point that Trudeau can't be trusted. As a result, voters who dislike their leader, Andrew Scheer, could gravitate to the NDP, which is most people's second choice right now.

The federal NDP's slogan "In it for you" has an edge to it. It implies that the other party leaders are not in it for the people; rather, they're in this race for the elites.

https://www.straight.com/news/1301641/heres-why-jagmeet-singh-and-ndp-sh...

melovesproles wrote:

Why do we have the Liberal party exactly?

Because they’ve won the most elections?

NorthReport wrote:

What’s so sickening is our right-wing National media including the political end to the CBC which constantly pimps for the Liberals

In this election of consequence there are basically 3 right-wing parties, the lying deceiving faux progressive Liberals, the Conservatives, and the followers of the sleazy Green Leader Elizabeth May versus the NDP.

As in several recent elections, I am a bit curious, North, as to why you never seem to apply any pejoratives to the Conservatives?  Your views on the Liberals are well known, stated multiple times daily and are likely shared by many other posters on here, if not expressed quite as floridly.  And in this campaign, you have certainly amped-up the criticism of Elizabeth May's character.  

So, here we have it, there are "lying deceiving faux progressive" Liberals and "sleazy" Elizabeth May but for some reason the Conservatives don't require an adjective.  And it may be just my memory playing me false but I don't ever remember you saying anything harsh about the Conservatives or their leader and wonder why, given your readiness to do so for the Liberals and Greens.  Perhaps you have and if so, I am more than ready to stand corrected.

I am not for a moment trying to increase the number of character attacks on this site, just wondering about the free pass that Scheer and the Cons seem to get from you.

Pietro_bcc wrote:

”I will say that all 3 of their answers to the Bill 21 question were weak and pathetic. But May's was outright disgusting saying that she'll get jobs for those effected outside of the province. I could just picture Legault nodding in agreement saying "right, if you don't like Bill 21 leave!".”

What didn’t you like about their responses other than Elizabeth May’s silly gesture. This issue is very personal for Mr. Singh. I think that he did a very good job of explaining the human cost to the people whose lives that will be directly affected by the legislation. It is a provincial issue and other than support the people who are legally challenging the constitutionality if the bill what else did you expect to hear from these leaders?

Engler: Challenging the NDP on Palestine During the Election Campaign

https://yvesengler.com/2019/09/11/challenging-the-ndp-on-palestine-durin...

"Last week I interrupted Jagmeet Singh at a public event to criticize the NDP's suppression of Palestine solidarity activism. Holding a placard with the words 'JAGMEET, PALESTINIAN LIVES MATTER', I demanded the NDP leader apologize for overturning the vote of members who elected Rana Zaman to represent the Dartmouth-Cole Harbour riding because she defended Palestinians mowed down by Israeli snipers.

I also asked him to apologize for suppressing debate at last year's convention on the modest 'Palestine Resolution: renewing the NDP's commitment to peace and justice,' which was unanimously endorsed by the NDP Youth associations. I also criticized his refusal to heed the call from 200 prominent individuals, labour leaders and party members - including Roger Waters, Noam Chomsky, Linda McQauig and Maher Arar - for the NDP to withdraw from the Canada-Israel Parliamentary Group.

Pro-Palestinian supporters of the NDP should not be afraid of challenging the party leadership during the election campaign. The right-wing Israel lobby will be active during the election campaign. So too must the Palestinian solidarity movement. If this means wherever he goes across the country Jagmeet Singh is confronted by Palestinian solidarity activists raising the name of Rana Zaman, the Palestine Resolution and the Canada-Israel Interparliamentary Group, so be it.

Palestinian lives matter. Certainly more than the comfort of politicians and political parties."

Jagmeet Singh - Progressive Canadians Don't Support Apartheid Israel. Neither should you!

All three, as well as the missing Trudeau, obviously politically owned 'four-square' by Israel. Apparently, this continues to pose no problem for 'progressives' here who pretend to support Palestinians but continue to vote for pro-Apartheid Israel, anti-Palestinian politicians.

Pondering,

You are entitled to disagree with NDPP. However, your post was alarmingly calloused and distasteful. Political candidates can speak up about Yemen and other areas of the world without being kicked off the ballot as a candidate for their party. Human rights injustices internationally and at home here in Canada are very serious and those issues take a back seat to nothing. Yes the environment is important. All issues are important and all need to be discussed and especially Palestinian human rights.

KarlL wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

What’s so sickening is our right-wing National media including the political end to the CBC which constantly pimps for the Liberals

In this election of consequence there are basically 3 right-wing parties, the lying deceiving faux progressive Liberals, the Conservatives, and the followers of the sleazy Green Leader Elizabeth May versus the NDP.

 

As in several recent elections, I am a bit curious, North, as to why you never seem to apply any pejoratives to the Conservatives?  Your views on the Liberals are well known, stated multiple times daily and are likely shared by many other posters on here, if not expressed quite as floridly.  And in this campaign, you have certainly amped-up the criticism of Elizabeth May's character.  

So, here we have it, there are "lying deceiving faux progressive" Liberals and "sleazy" Elizabeth May but for some reason the Conservatives don't require an adjective.  And it may be just my memory playing me false but I don't ever remember you saying anything harsh about the Conservatives or their leader and wonder why, given your readiness to do so for the Liberals and Greens.  Perhaps you have and if so, I am more than ready to stand corrected.

I am not for a moment trying to increase the number of character attacks on this site, just wondering about the free pass that Scheer and the Cons seem to get from you.

Written like a liberal hack.

When the conservatives do well federally, the NDP usually do well for the most part. This is a fact and there are several examples.

North Report hit the nail on the head here is this comment. Liberal hacks wouldn't like it because liberal hacks are under the illusion that the liberals are more progressive than the conservatives

In reality, liberals are 3-5 years more progressive tops. But at a corporate sell out price.

When are the first polls taken after that debate likely to appear?  It will be interesting to see if the perception that Singh won that debate ends up making an actual difference in the numbers.

Ken Burch wrote:

When are the first polls taken after that debate likely to appear?  It will be interesting to see if the perception that Singh won that debate ends up making an actual difference in the numbers.

Who "won the debate" varies depending on which media or publication is being referenced.  The consensus seems to be that Singh had a decent debate (although more so in the first half), but some of the links above are to NDP-friendly pieces.  The Conservatives are putting out their own spin saying Scheer won.  And there are also some online voter polls, such as one posted by Hannah Thibedeau of CBC, that say Trudeau won by making the right decision not to be there.  So it all depends.

Ken Burch wrote:

At this point, the only way to get a full slate is to clear everybody who wanted to seek the nomination.

Yeah, letting everyone and anyone who wants to run for the NDP (or any political party) is never a good idea. Whatever problems are associated with the process, it exists for a reason. If you do this, you run the risk of letting in a candiate with a serious problem that gets media attention and holds back the party everywhere else in the country. That can actually be worse for the party than no candidate at all. If the NDP is at that point, it's not a good sign.

This is what I don’t get. The election dates are now fixed. So we know that in October 2023 we will have another major federal election. Why leave the candidate selection to the very  last minute? Why not start nominating candidates one year ahead of the election so that they can do their vetting and allow candidates to be fully prepared and ready to go once the writ is dropped?

the NDP should have their full slate of candidates ready to go by the spring of their election year and if some candidates fall through the cracks, get sick or outed for prior scandals or Facebook posts, it is not a catastrophe and the constituency should have a backup candidate ready to fill the position if something happens to the primary candidate.

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

When are the first polls taken after that debate likely to appear?  It will be interesting to see if the perception that Singh won that debate ends up making an actual difference in the numbers.

More interesting to see what the numbers will show when people who thought Singh won the debate can't vote for him because his inattention to important things like making sure the candidate selection process went smoothly means they can't vote NDP in their area.

I'm sure they'll fill the slate. After all, the Marxist-Leninists named 50 candidates in one day!

Yes, the PPC & the Greens have a large number of candidates nominated -- that's because 95% of those people aren't ever going to be elected as MPs and so the vetting process is fast & casual.

The Liberals, Conservatives, and NDP (and even the BQ) have to be more careful about who they put on the ballot.

I do agree with Misfit though that the NDP are farther behind on candidate selection than they should be.  Chantal Hebert mentioned that in a recent column and said on At Issue a couple weeks ago that in the 40 years she has been covering the NDP since 1979 she has never seen them so unprepared.

And the Liberals are also farther behind on candidate selection this year than they should be -- including in some ridings that they currently hold or have a chance to win.

Its very simple for a party to fill a slot. You need 100 people who live in a riding to sign a paper and then fill out paperwork, that's it. If the NDP wanted all the ridings to have a candidate by now, they could've done so easily. They just don't want any candidate, they want quality. The Greens and PPC don't care about quality, they care about having 338. That being said, the NDP should've been searching for candidates way earlier.

Debater wrote:

Go to 5:55 for Chantal Hebert's comment about the NDP being the most unprepared in 40 years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wu0ywgu0O4

Thank you Debater for this link.

Debater wrote:

Go to 5:55 for Chantal Hebert's comment about the NDP being the most unprepared in 40 years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wu0ywgu0O4

Chantal's a liberal hack working for the imperialist corporate media. Are you saying she's changed now and is some kind of born again journalist?

WWWTT wrote:

Debater wrote:

Go to 5:55 for Chantal Hebert's comment about the NDP being the most unprepared in 40 years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wu0ywgu0O4

Chantal's a liberal hack working for the imperialist corporate media. Are you saying she's changed now and is some kind of born again journalist?

Chantal Herbert is by no means a Liberal hack anf you have no provenance for that assertion, WWWTT.  Aside from being, in my view. the most incisive journalist in the country (though Campbell Clark gives her a run for her money as an out-and-out neutral  with a good brain) , she is perhaps the only one who has the level of insight/foresight that would be necessary to actually run a national campaign, whereas most journalists are tut-tutting Monday morning quarterbacks.

I have always thought that Chantal leans social democrat, if anything but is also resolute in calling it as she sees it.  The  very last thing Chantal Hebert is is anyone's lickspittle - and yes, she works for the Toronto Star, which has several times in memory endorsed the NDP, unlike any other broadsheet.  By your rationale, WWWTT, Tom Walkom, Rick Salutin, Sara Mojtehedzadeh and Tanya Talaga must suspect as a Liberal hacks for working for corporatist media.  

All three, as well as the missing Trudeau, obviously politically owned 'four-square' by Israel. Apparently, this continues to pose no problem for 'progressives' here who pretend to support Palestinians but continue to vote for pro-Apartheid Israel, anti-Palestinian politicians.

True. All four parties are awful on this. The Greens are beyond stupid for not differentiating themsleves from the terrible postions of the other 3 parties. It would have been enough to move my vote. At this point, other than supporting local candidates who aren't as terrible as their party leadership, I don't know what voters can do. What is your advice? 

Ken Burch wrote:

When are the first polls taken after that debate likely to appear?  It will be interesting to see if the perception that Singh won that debate ends up making an actual difference in the numbers.

I rcall that the consensus was that Jack Layton won the 2008 English language leaders debate, and yet the NDP hardly got any bump from it. So while I would certainly like Singh to get a bump from his performance in the first debate, he may not necessarily get one.

swallow wrote:

Good people still want to run for the NDP. Leah Gazan, Bob Chamberlain, Rudy Turtle, Anna Betty Achneepineskum, Katherine Swampy, Breen Ouellette, Brian Chang, Nima Machouf, Barrington Walker, Mae Nam, Matthew Green, Mumilaaq Qaqqaq .... Canada could do a lot worse than these new candidates, engaged in their communities and in social movements. 

I would add Yvonne Hanson to this list. She's a 24 year-old climate activist who's running for the NDP in Vancouver-Granville. This is unfortunately Jody-Wilson Raybould's riding, and although the riding is one of the most profiled is this election, Yvonne Hanson is being effectively ignored in the msm.

Fortunately the Georgia Straight has been promoting her campaign:

Greens and NDP each position themselves as first choice for young Vancouver voters freaked out about climate crisis

Quote:

This week, the NDP decided to "green up" for the October general election by nominating a young environmental activist, Yvonne Hanson, in Vancouver Granville.

A recent Simon Fraser University grad, retail worker, and renter, she proudly declares that she's volunteered with several environmental groups, including the Dogwood Initiative and Extinction Rebellion.

ER, as it's sometimes called, has been involved in militant, albeit nonviolent, street actions in Europe, the United States, and Eastern Canada.

"I grew up learning about the wonders of our Earth as the same time as I learned about their imminent destruction," Hanson says in the slickly produced video below. "Watching leaders fumble, and delay necessary action pushed me to join the ring and fight for the future that my generation will have to face. I'm here to prove that politics doesn't need to be dominated by a certain class of career politicians."

In the video, Hanson forcefully argues for a Green New Deal and a post-carbon economy.

It's a sharply tuned anti-establishment, pro-environmental message. And it's perfectly calibrated for those who love the politics of the youngest member of the House of Representatives, rookie New York Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a.k.a. AOC.

"I firmly believe that housing is a human right, as is the right to a clean, healthy environment," Hanson declared to the Straight. "I also believe that climate justice is inextricable from social justice, and we must address them with interconnected solutions."

Yvonne Hanson: Fighting for the Green New Deal—why social justice and climate action must go hand in hand

Quote:

Canada’s establishment parties will not solve the climate crisis or the crisis of inequality. We need transformative change, and that’s why I’m excited to be running in the federal election with Jagmeet Singh and the NDP in the riding of Vancouver Granville. This October’s vote will determine Canada’s response to this climate emergency, which will shape our future for generations to come, and I believe the NDP offers the best chance to implement the Green New Deal we urgently need.