So What’s A Progressive Voter To Do?

A while back I did a little amateur number crunching using figures on the cost of the construction of the current high speed rail line being built in California.

For the $4.5 billion Justin Trudeau spent bailing out Texas pipeline investors it would have covered the cost of constrruction for the first 80 KM of high speed rail line between Edmonton and Calgary (total distance approximately 300 KM).

How many jobs would have been created doing that kind of construction?   How many permanent jobs would there be (I'm guessing, a whole lot more than would be employed by building a pipeline).   How many cars would have been taken off the road resulting in less GHG emissions?

We would be moving people instead of some of the dirtiest oil on the planet.

Hell, there isn't even a normal "slow speed" passenger rail connection between these two cities...two of the largest in Canada.   It's a bloody national disgrace!

And even if you didn't spend the $4.5 billion on high speed rail, there are a ton of other things that could have been done to aid in a genuine green transition.   But no, this regime decided that bailing out Texas oil investors was much more important.

Fuck the Liberals and the horse they rode in on.

On the contrary, May believes strongly in "market solutions", not this commie "free software" stuff.

They bailed out ALBERTA...end point

radiorahim wrote:

A while back I did a little amateur number crunching using figures on the cost of the construction of the current high speed rail line being built in California.

For the $4.5 billion Justin Trudeau spent bailing out Texas pipeline investors it would have covered the cost of constrruction for the first 80 KM of high speed rail line between Edmonton and Calgary (total distance approximately 300 KM).

How many jobs would have been created doing that kind of construction?   How many permanent jobs would there be (I'm guessing, a whole lot more than would be employed by building a pipeline).   How many cars would have been taken off the road resulting in less GHG emissions?

We would be moving people instead of some of the dirtiest oil on the planet.

Hell, there isn't even a normal "slow speed" passenger rail connection between these two cities...two of the largest in Canada.   It's a bloody national disgrace!

And even if you didn't spend the $4.5 billion on high speed rail, there are a ton of other things that could have been done to aid in a genuine green transition.   But no, this regime decided that bailing out Texas oil investors was much more important.

Fuck the Liberals and the horse they rode in on.

NorthReport wrote:

Quebecers are usually the most politically astute folks in the country and apparently the Liberals have, in the past week, dropped 4-5% in the polls in Quebec and the Bloc is picking up support

CBC poll tracker shows they have lost about 2% in the last week. They are 13% ahead of both the BQ and Cons who are tied at just under 22%. NDP barely ahead of the Greens at just under 10%. That's still the biggest lead for the Liberals of any region.

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/

alan smithee]</p> <p><strong>They bailed out ALBERTA...end point</strong>[quote=radiorahim wrote:

Bullshit.   They bailed out Texas pipeline investors.   With the Liberals, it's all about appearances.   It's never about reality.      No government is going to push the world price of oil magiliciously up to $100 a barrel any time soon.

Aristotleded24 wrote:

How many planes between Calgary and Edmonton would that have taken out of the skies?

Absolutely!   Air travel, particularly by regular business travellers is a great contributor to GHG's.   And, we should make executive jets illegal.

NorthReport wrote:

We have the video-conferencing technology, which goes largely unused,  but the executives want the travel perks

Yes and it's the privileged who are doing the most to destroy the planet.   They should pay the costs of saving it.

This sounds like the crap from the Clinton campaign from 2016 when stuff was leaked about the DNC trying to sabotage Bernie Sanders.

I really don't give a rat's ass who leaked JT's blackface photos.    The fact of the matter is that he did it.

Who is going to take over NDP leadership after they get their asses kicked on the 21st?

NorthReport wrote:

How many seats did the NDP win the first time Layton was leader?

Jagmeet is doing fine and on principle he needs to stick around for 3 or 4 elections just like Jack Layton did, until he became popular, eh!

Times are very different than when Jack became leader after the extensive period of low seat counts under Audrey McLaughlin and Alexa McDonough. Most people will not have that kind of patience these days, following the Orange Wave, and its subsequent frittering away under Mulcair (one and done), and which has continued under Singh, who is about to preside over yet another massive loss of NDP seats.

radiorahim wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

How many planes between Calgary and Edmonton would that have taken out of the skies?

Absolutely!   Air travel, particularly by regular business travellers is a great contributor to GHG's.   And, we should make executive jets illegal.

Yes, but hurt Bombardier?

Uh, so the NDP are racist?

alan smithee wrote:

radiorahim wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

I'm not against that. Maybe that would bring some change. I'm not convinced that the Liberals are worse than the Conservatives.

Here's HOW they are worse.   Everyone knows the Tories are awful and reactionary.   Liberals are also awful and reactionary...the difference is their pseudo "progressive" sounding rhetoric that keep people locked into an illusion.

You're wrong my friend. They came from the bottom to a majority because they ran to the Left as the Mulcair NDP ran to the right. They made some progressive policies and they kept them. It seems everyone would be buzzing if those same policies were passed by the NDP. 

Again all you're doing is presenting the same argument I just denounced. It gets tiring. The Cons are better because they are reactionary? Because they are openly bad? On what planet would a so=called progressive view the Cons as the SECOND worse? What do you expect from Scheer and the Stephen Harper Conservatives?  Answer ; NOTHING unless you're rich,white and drink petrol.

To quote Leonard Nimoy.' That's highly illogical'  

Ok, ok, OK...in 2015, the Liberals gave the impression they were to the left of the NDP-Mulcair, to his eternal discredit, did all he could to encourage the idea that a vote for the NDP was not a vote for any real change-but that was the LAST election.  You voted the way you voted then.   That's the past.  That's carved in stone and unchangeable.  

We're in a different situation now.

Singh has nothing in common with Mulcair and is not responsible for the essentially conservative image Mulcair gave the NDP.  The NDP's program this year is clearly to the left of what it was in 2015 and clearly to the left of the Liberals.

There's no point in continuing to bring up the 2015 campaign and how the NDP and the Liberals seemed then.

And it would do nothing to stop the Cons for the Liberals to try and take seats FROM the NDP.  I get it that parties always try to take seats from other parties, but there's no case for the idea that it would serve any progressive good, for example, for any of the seats currently held by the NDP, especially in Quebec, to be taken by the Liberals.  In Quebec specifically, any Liberal gain from the NDP could only be a victory for bigotry, xenophobia and conservatism.

alan smithee wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

 

.  In Quebec specifically, any Liberal gain from the NDP could only be a victory for bigotry, xenophobia and conservatism.

As I stated in another thread, no 2 threads, saying that people are xenophobes if they don't vote NDP is outrageously egregious that it turns off swing voters like myself. I haven't decided if I want to vote for a party that has a chance of beating the Cons or vote with my conscience for the party in which I approve of their policies.

But when I read bullshit like that I get really turned off. 

If the Liberals win the election it has NOTHING to do with xenophobia or racism. Nothing. 

 As mentioned by someone else  of the case of Jack Layton is that it took a few elections for the electorate to fall in love with him. Must I remind you that the Orange Wave was thanks to Quebec ?  We did our part, the ROC didn't. So calling Quebecers xenophobes if the NDP loses seats to the Liberals is not helping anybody's cause.

I'd back down from that comment, Ken. You're smart enough to know that is bullshit. 

I didn't say people were xenophobes simply if they didn't vote NDP as a universal statement.

I was talking specifically about Quebec, where the hostility to Singh has been based almost exclusively on xenophobia, in a way it hasn't been in other areas.  What else would you call it for people to reject a political figure simply because of the way he looks as part of his religious/cultural identity?

It can't be progressive to switch from voting for a more-progressive party to a less-progressive party because it's leader wears a turban and a beard for spiritual/cultural reasons.

If it's about stopping Scheer, the Liberals should focus on holding their current seats and trying to take seats from the Cons. 

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Singh as he dresses everyday on the campaign trail would not be allowed into the Quebec National Assembly but Elizabeth with her nice Christian cross around her neck would be allowed in no problem but heaven forbid anyone call it xenophobia or racism.

 The rednecks in Quebec live in Quebec City and the regions. These are the degenerates that elected CAQ.

This issue is all about the CAQ, La Meute and regional bigots.

Singh can wear his turban, a Jewish person can wear their yulemuka (pardon the incorrect spelling) and a muslim can wear a hijab. If you follow what is going on in Quebec with Loi 21. it is deeply unpopular with those living around the Island. I can`t see how CAQ will enforce this law. My guess is they can`t and it was just a nod and wink to their core supporters La Meute.