Warren Kinsella Paid by Cons to Attack Bernier's Party

42 posts / 0 new

Sat, 2019-10-19 15:49

jerrym

Documentary evidence shows that the Conservative Party paid Warren Kinsella to "Seeek and Destroy Bernier's PPC Party". When Scheer was asked eight consecutive times whether this was true he replied “As a rule, we never make comments on vendors that we may or may not have engaged with.” I have zero use for Bernier, his party, or their policies and beliefs, but this also raises questions about Scheer's ethics, whether he is who he says he is, and whether the Cons violated election law. The Cons goal was to make themselves look more enlightened on racial issues. In attacking the PPC that meant they only had to be a millimetre above the racist dirt of the PPC.

Warren Kinsella's Daisy Group consulting firm was behind a social media campaign to put the People's Party of Canada (PPC) on the defensive and keep leader Maxime Bernier out of the federal leaders' debates, according to documents provided to CBC News.

The documents outline the work done by several employees of Daisy on behalf of an unnamed client. A source with knowledge of the project told CBC News that client was the Conservative Party of Canada. ...

According to a source with knowledge of the project, who spoke to CBC News on condition they not be named, the objective of the plan, dubbed "Project Cactus," was to make the Conservative Party look more attractive to voters by highlighting PPC candidates' and supporters' xenophobic statements on social media. The source added that Daisy employed four full-time staffers on Project Cactus at one time.

Kinsella is a lawyer, anti-racism activist and former Liberal strategist who has been a vocal critic of Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau.

Repeatedly asked to confirm or explain his party's involvement during a campaign event in Toronto on Saturday, Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer refused to answer. "As a rule, we never make comments on vendors that we may or may not have engaged with," he said repeatedly. ...

Trudeau was asked today if he has concerns his party could also have been targeted, but he did not answer directly. "We've seen through this campaign that the Conservatives have had to use the policies of fear and division and indeed, just make stuff up in order to get their message across," he said, during an event in Hamilton. Why? It's because they have nothing to offer Canadians except $53 billion worth of cuts."

NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh said any plan to "subvert" a political party, paid by another party, is "troubling. I've made it clear that I don't believe someone like Mr. Bernier should have a platform to spread hateful messages. I think his messages are wrong," he said during a campaign event in Vancouver. But at the end of the day, people should be able to discuss and express their opinions, as long as they're not hateful and divisive, and be able to have the forum to do that." Singh said Scheer should be more transparent and explain his party's actions. ...

Documents seen by CBC News outline a plan to "seek and destroy" the PPC and prevent Bernier from getting into the leaders' debates. ...

In the documents seen by CBC News, drafted prior to the launch, STAMP is described as a screen for the project and its client. "Daisy will create an arm's-length organization that cannot be linked to the client or any participating organization. This organization will run a proxy war room public relations campaign that allows real Canadians to shine a light on the prejudice and hate that is associated with the PPC," a Daisy consultant writes. ...

The STAMP Out Hate account lambasted the PPC, its candidates and its supporters right up until June 29, a day before new election rules regarding third-party advertisers came into effect. The account has since stopped attacking Bernier's party but has continued to tweet anti-racist messages.

The emails outlining the plan for Project Cactus say "Daisy will work to ensure this campaign is not named as a third party." Later, in the Whatsapp chat provided to CBC News, a Daisy Group employee asks when the date for third-party spending rules kick in. Another employee replies, "June 30" and the first employee responds, "great thanks!"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/project-cactus-maxime-bernier-1.5327555

Sat, 2019-10-19 16:08

jerrym

The Globe and Mail initially reported on this Conservative party scheme and described how it operated. It also noted that Kinsella had been working for the Green Party during the campaign, raising questions about the Greens' judgement in hiring Kinsella, with his known track record of campaign tricks while working for the Liberals, and questions about where Kinsella's party loyalties actually lie.

Mr. Kinsella, a former Liberal adviser who is now a vehement critic of Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau, has previously acknowledged that he worked briefly this year for the Green Party of Canada. However, in a phone interview, he declined to say whether he worked for the Conservative Party this year. ...

When asked about Project Cactus, Mr. Kinsella said his firm does work on anti-racism files. He neither confirmed nor denied that his company worked with the Conservatives to discredit the People’s Party. “We don’t talk about client matters,” he said. “What I can say, just generally, is Daisy has been involved in anti-racism campaigns for years, most recently against the neo-Nazi newspaper Your Ward News, based here in Toronto, and we’ve had some success with that, so we’ve been very active in anti-racism campaigns, but we don’t talk about clients.” ...

The campaign, according to the internal documents, focused on criticizing Mr. Bernier and his supporters online.

A Daisy Group document describing the project says “Daisy’s war room campaign goals will be to place Bernier and PPC on the defensive” and to “work to attempt to ensure that Bernier and the PPC are not included in national leaders’ debates. If unsuccessful in blocking his participation, Daisy will work to ensure that Bernier and his party are weakened to the point of being ineffective.”

Senior Daisy Group employee Rob Gilmour outlined the plan in the document. He noted that Daisy Group’s role could meet Elections Canada’s definition of third-party activity, a move that would require the filing of disclosures on its political activities. “Daisy will create an arm’s-length organization that cannot be linked to the client or any participating organization,” he wrote. He later added, “If possible, Daisy will work to ensure this campaign is not named as a third party.” ...

Mr. Gilmour wrote that the campaign would consist of three “phases.” First, from March to mid-April, Daisy would conduct research for the campaign and hold weekly or biweekly calls with the client. Then, in what Mr. Gilmour called the “seek and destroy” phase, the Daisy group would launch the campaign. This phase would last from mid-April to June 30. Finally, the campaign would enter its “full steam ahead” portion beginning on July 1 and end on a date “TBD.” “We will push Maxime Bernier and the PCC [sic] off their messages – forcing them, instead, to defend instances of hate speech and sympathy for racism,” he wrote. It is not clear if this third phase was approved.

A Twitter account called @Stamptogether – Standing Together Against Misogyny and Prejudice – was created in April, 2019. Managers of the account would respond favourably to Conservative politicians, while repeatedly condemning Mr. Bernier and his supporters. ...

In one post, the group’s contacts are listed as Lisa Kinsella and Tom Henheffer of Daisy Group. ...

The account’s criticism of Mr. Bernier ended on June 29, the day before new Elections Act rules took effect that require third parties to register with Elections Canada and disclose their spending and revenue during the precampaign period that began June 30. Internal Daisy Group documents indicate that the firm was well aware of that deadline.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/project-cactus-maxime-bernier-1.5327555

Sat, 2019-10-19 16:21

jerrym

Maxime Bernier is not only asking Elections Canada to investigate Warren Kinsella's and the Conservative Party's actions, he is also looking at launching a lawsuit against them. Furthermore, he is asking whether the Rhinoceros Party candidate running against him with an identical Maxime Bernier name is part of a Kinsella scheme.

People's Party of Canada Leader Maxime Bernier has issued a thundering denunciation of Andrew Scheer following revelations of a campaign to discredit his party.

The Globe and Mail disclosed that the Conservatives hired former Jean Chrétien speechwriter Warren Kinsella's company, the Daisy Group, to undermine Canadians' confidence in Bernier's People's Party of Canada. ...

The Daisy Group's website includes a long list of its clients but it doesn't mention the Conservative party among them.

Bernier is also incensed over a Rhinocerous party candidate who shares his name and who's running against him in the Quebec riding of Beauce. Bernier wants to know if Kinsella's company or the Conservatives played any role in this political development.

The People's Party of Canada leader has asked Elections Canada to conduct an investigation.

At his news conference today, Bernier pointed to Scheer's refusal to admit to hiring Kinsella's company as proof of his guilt.

Scheer repeatedly sidestepped this question from reporters on eight occasions, saying his party doesn't reveal the identity of companies that it has contracted to do business.

Afrer the Globe and Mail story appeared online, Bernier issued the following statement over Twitter:

"I am astounded and shocked to learn that Andrew Scheer and Hamish Marshall paid professional mud-throwers to discredit our party. This is an attack on the integrity of our democratic process. We have long suspected that many of the supposed scandals that his us during the past months were manufactured by opponents. The Globe and Mail story proves that the constant accusations of racism, the suspicious resignations by party executives and candidates, the fake letters and emails, and many other stories, were likely arranged by Warren Kinsella for his Conservative clients.

I left the CPC after I realized it had become morally and intellectually corrupt. Who can now doubt it?"

https://www.straight.com/news/1315946/maxime-bernier-seeks-elections-can...

Sat, 2019-10-19 16:22

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I hate the Conservatives but I welcome anyone destroying Bernier's Nazi Party

Sat, 2019-10-19 17:30

(Reply to #4) #5

knownothing knownothing's picture

alan smithee wrote:

I hate the Conservatives but I welcome anyone destroying Bernier's Nazi Party

Even by illegal and anti-democratic means?

Sat, 2019-10-19 18:40

JKR

In every election since their inception in 2004 the Conservatives have significantly broken election laws to help them cheat to win. Whatever happened to Pierre Poutine?

Sat, 2019-10-19 19:00

Ken Burch

So, to recap, for those just tuning in-Kinsella worked for the Greens to stick to Justin from; then, he worked for the Cons against the PP, to stick it to Justin. Sounds about right for Kinsella.

Sat, 2019-10-19 19:06

(Reply to #7) #8

bekayne

Ken Burch wrote:

So, to recap, for those just tuning in-Kinsella worked for the Greens to stick to Justin from; then, he worked for the Cons against the PP, to stick it to Justin. Sounds about right for Kinsella.

Reminds me of the quote by (Tommy Douglas? Stanley Knowles?) about either Hazen Argue or Ross Thatcher: "We had him yesterday, you have him today, god help whoever has him tomorrow!"

Sat, 2019-10-19 19:17

(Reply to #8) #9

jerrym

Ken Burch wrote:

So, to recap, for those just tuning in-Kinsella worked for the Greens to stick to Justin from; then, he worked for the Cons against the PP, to stick it to Justin. Sounds about right for Kinsella.

After being the dirty trickster of the Liberal party where he was known as the Prince of Darkness. He even "ran as a Liberal candidate in the 1997 federal election in the riding of North Vancouver" but lost and tried to run in 2015 in Toronto Danforth as a Liberal but was blocked (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/political-backroom-veteran...).

Warren Kinsella fancies himself a bon vivant, a punk rocker and the so-called “Prince of Darkness” of Canadian politics. His political books are thick with tales of dirty tricks and nasty business in Ottawa’s corridors of power, and he is an admitted and most gleeful practitioner of both. His reputation and methods have brought him to the helm of Michael Ignatieff’s “war room,” where he will presumably ply his trade in the Liberal leader’s next election campaign.

Kinsella’s return to the Liberal fold–he went into quasi-exile from the Liberal Party during Prime Minister Paul Martin’s regime, and has an ongoing defamation lawsuit against Martin. ...

Once a special aide to Jean Chrétien and chief of staff to former Public Works Minister David Dingwall, Kinsella has, with a few notable exceptions, been associated with the Liberal brand since Chrétien took a shine to him in 1987. Few people in Canadian politics dare say a bad word about him, for fear of being lambasted on his website or pursued legally by Kinsella himself. Kinsella has five ongoing lawsuits in Toronto alone, against Paul Martin, Public Works Minister Christian Paradis, several journalists and author/pundit Ezra Levant, from whom Kinsella is seeking $5 million in defamation-related damages.

https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-prince-of-darkness-is-back-in-th...

Sat, 2019-10-19 19:24

#10

bekayne

Famous last words.

Image result for warren kinsella spidey sense

Sat, 2019-10-19 20:27

#11

bekayne

The time Warren Kinsella joined Rabble Babble.

http://archive.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=38&t=000253

Warning: thread contains the n-word

Sat, 2019-10-19 20:54

#12

KarlL

He's a sad case (and I know him personally to some exent). The best way that I can describe him is that he is utterly relentless (and usually ruthless) in pursuing what he believes in and in trying to injure those whom he hates (and I mean hates).

The sad part is that he wrestles with serious depression (which he has spoken about, so I am not outing him) and has had a rough go, post-divorce with some of his kids but also seems to have no compunction in inflicting damage on others. So far, a pretty bad picture. And yet, nobody in Canada has devoted more time to exposing and fighting Neo-Nazis. He has done so at significant financial and physical risk to himself.

Until this current campaign, I had sort of taken the rough with the smooth, even though some campaigns I have been invoved with have been among his targets. This time seems different. He is now involved with the same fake news peddling Proud-types that he would once have abhorred. I am not saying that they are Nazis but there is some pretty nasty company there in terms of xenophobia, social policy and God knows what else - which doen't describe his own politics at all.

The only moment of pause that he seemed to have was the Obama intervention because he admires Obama and considered James Carville a friend. That pause lasted an hour or two.

Sat, 2019-10-19 20:56

(Reply to #12) #13

KarlL

Sat, 2019-10-19 21:10

#14

Pondering

He seems like an unprincipled hack.

Sat, 2019-10-19 21:34

(Reply to #14) #15

KarlL

Pondering wrote:

He seems like an unprincipled hack.

I am not sure that I fully understand what a "hack" is. I am reminded of the old joke that if you can't spot the "patsy" at a poker game, then you are it. But I really don't know what the term means outside of being a put down for biased and/or pedestrian journalists and certain other writers.

If it simply means a political professional. all parties have those. It is not as though Anne McGrath or Brad Lavigne were off digging wells in Africa. They did what they do well (for the most part) - supporting and steering their parties in the crunch. If you don't have them, or don't have enough good ones with good judgement, you are really fucked, as Ignatieff, McLaughlin (with due respect to Les Campbell) and Dion all discovered.

Sat, 2019-10-19 21:49

(Reply to #15) #16

KarlL

Pondering wrote:

He seems like an unprincipled hack.

That's the curious part. He actually does have principles. He hates and pursues Neo-Nazis with the relentlessness of some latterday Simon Wiesenthal and misogynists as well (see: https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/pa7bw7/james-sears-editor-of-canadas-most-racist-paper-ygets-year-in-prison-for-promoting-hate-your-ward-news) and he has had a go at much tougher characters like Wolfgang Droege. He would be found on the left of the Liberal Party policy-wise. It is just that his egocentrism leads him into all manner of personal animosities that end up in vitriol and mounds of litigation.

Sat, 2019-10-19 22:11

#17

cco

I find it completely believable that someone who's "on the left of the Liberal Party" is entirely comfortable working for Andrew Scheer. Says something about the Liberal Party, doesn't it?

Sat, 2019-10-19 22:23

#18

Mighty Middle

Kinsella has some horrible things to say about Olivia Chow, calling her a "terrible" (his word) candidate - writing

She was a terrible candidate. Terrible. Her campaign manager didn’t know what he was doing. And the New Democrats around Chow – as I soon learned – are a closed shop. If you belong to another political persuasion, as I did, they will never fully let you in the door.

http://warrenkinsella.com/2018/09/nick-and-me/

Sat, 2019-10-19 22:42

(Reply to #18) #19

bekayne

Mighty Middle wrote:

Kinsella has some horrible things to say about Olivia Chow, calling her a "terrible" (his word) candidate - writing

She was a terrible candidate. Terrible. Her campaign manager didn’t know what he was doing. And the New Democrats around Chow – as I soon learned – are a closed shop. If you belong to another political persuasion, as I did, they will never fully let you in the door.

http://warrenkinsella.com/2018/09/nick-and-me/

After working on her campaign.

Sat, 2019-10-19 22:43

(Reply to #19) #20

bekayne

cco wrote:
I find it completely believable that someone who's "on the left of the Liberal Party" is entirely comfortable working for Andrew Scheer. Says something about the Liberal Party, doesn't it?

On some issues (Israel, criminal justice) he's very much to the right.

Sat, 2019-10-19 23:01

(Reply to #20) #21

jerrym

Mighty Middle wrote:

Kinsella has some horrible things to say about Olivia Chow, calling her a "terrible" (his word) candidate - writing

http://warrenkinsella.com/2018/09/nick-and-me/

Kinsella's comments about Chow came after she "effectively booted from Olivia Chow’s mayoral campaign for deriding a rival transit plan as “segregationist,” political strategist Warren Kinsella said that Ms. Chow’s treatment of him “kind of stunk.” She was at least wise enough to get rid of him quickly and in typical Kinsella fashion he attacked her.

In addition to Olivia Chow's mayoral campaign, Warren Kinsella, the self labelled Prince of Darkness, has worked for Liberals, Greens, John Tory's 2018 mayoral campaign and Cons. However, he spent by far most of his time working for the Liberals, both federally and provincially, between 1993 and 2015. Why did the Liberals put up with him for so long?

Federal Liberals

Kinsella served as a strategist in the Canadian federal Liberal Party's 1993 election campaign "task force", and worked as a staffer in opposition leader Jean Chrétien's office. After the Liberals won the election, Kinsella became chief of staff to federal Public Works minister David Dingwall for a short time.

Kinsella ran as a Liberal candidate in the 1997 federal election in the riding of North Vancouver but was defeated by Reform incumbent Ted White.

During his last stint as a national campaign headquarters worker during the 2000 Canadian federal election, he appeared on CTV's Canada AM brandishing a purple Barney dinosaur doll to mock what he claimed were Canadian Alliance leader Stockwell Day's creationist beliefs.[4]

After the 2000 federal election, Kinsella was a vocal supporter of Chretien during the intra-party struggle that resulted in Chretien being replaced by Paul Martin, and he would work on Liberal leadership campaigns for Allan Rock and Sheila Copps in opposition to Martin.

Starting in November 2008, Kinsella worked briefly for Liberal leadership candidate Michael Ignatieff.[5] One long-time senior Liberal questioned the hiring of Kinsella, calling him a "human shrapnel machine."[6] Later that month Kinsella apologized for a post in his video blog that jokingly mentioned that his regular Chinese restaurant sold "cat meat."[7][8] Kinsella resigned from Ignatieff's campaign in May 2009, citing treatment of fired colleagues.[9]

Kinsella publicly considered seeking the Liberal nomination for the 2015 federal election in Toronto—Danforth, but ultimately demurred after believing he would not be approved as a nominee.[10] He has been a critic of Justin Trudeau's leadership[11] and briefly worked as a consultant to the Green Party of Canada prior to the 2019 Canadian federal election campaign. [12]

Provincial Liberals

Kinsella was a long time supporter of Ontario premier Dalton McGuinty, and was a fixture in Ontario Liberal Party election campaigns while McGuinty was leader. He would apologize for a blog post during the campaign suggesting that Progressive Conservative MPP Lisa MacLeod would rather bake cookies than be seen with farm activist Randy Hillier; MacLeod would later use the remark as the humorous title for a cookbook.[13]

Kinsella supported Sandra Pupatello in the 2013 Liberal Party of Ontario leadership convention that chose a successor to McGuinty.[14] The leadership was won by Kathleen Wynne. Kinsella was sharply critical of Wynne's campaign during the 2014 Ontario election, and subsequently.[15]

Municipal politics

Kinsella advised John Tory in the 2003 Toronto mayoral election.

In 2014 mayoral election, Kinsella assisted Olivia Chow's campaign. On August 20, 2014, Kinsella tweeted "Is John Tory’s SmartTrack, you know, Segregationist Track?", and posted a photo featuring Tory and an edited speech bubble stating that Jane/Finch and Rexdale were intentionally excluded from the plan.[16] Kinsella apologized for the incident. Daisy Consulting later announced that they had fired Chow as a client due to remarks regarding Kinsella.[17]

Kinsella was subsequently an advisor to John Tory during the 2018 Toronto mayoral election.[18]

Green Party

Kinsella worked for the Canadian Green Party during July of 2019 in the run-up to the 2019 Canadian federal election.[19][20] This work was a temporary arrangement and involved "Kinsella setting up a quick-response unit for the Greens."[12]

Conservative Party of Canada

In October 2019, the Globe and Mail reported that Kinsella's consulting firm, Daisy Group, had, according to an anonymous source, been hired by the Conservative Party of Canada by creating a campaign attempting to discredit Maxime Bernier and the People's Party of Canada. Neither the Conservative Party nor Mr. Kinsella would confirm or deny that they are – or have been – working together.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Kinsella

Sat, 2019-10-19 22:54

(Reply to #21) #22

KarlL

cco wrote:
I find it completely believable that someone who's "on the left of the Liberal Party" is entirely comfortable working for Andrew Scheer. Says something about the Liberal Party, doesn't it?

piss off.

Sun, 2019-10-20 00:41

#23

NorthReport

What were Kinsella’s titles when worked for the Liberals?

Liberals need not start acting holier than thou over this as Kinsella for an extended period of time was a key person in their election campaign

Liberals are right up there with the Conservatives the only difference being the Liberals are a lot sophisticated when they are doing dirty tricks

Look at how Justin was caught lying over the JWR / SNC scandal and we only know what’s come to light

Sun, 2019-10-20 04:33

(Reply to #23) #24

JKR

NorthReport wrote:

What were Kinsella’s titles when worked for the Liberals?

What were Bob Rae's and Ujjal Dosanj's titles when they worked for the NDP before they switched to working for the Liberals?

Sun, 2019-10-20 01:29

#25

NorthReport

So Liberal Kinsella who worked for the Greens was hired recently to attack the People's Party

It seems it is only the NDP that is not involved in this steaming pile of shit

Who knew!

Sun, 2019-10-20 03:39

(Reply to #25) #26

Ken Burch

JKR wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

What were Kinsella’s titles when worked for the Liberals?

What were Bob Rae's and Ujjal Dosanj's titles when they they worked for the NDP before they switched to working for the Liberals?

So where was Kinsella a premier?

Sun, 2019-10-20 04:11

(Reply to #26) #27

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

knownothing wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

I hate the Conservatives but I welcome anyone destroying Bernier's Nazi Party

Even by illegal and anti-democratic means?

Bernier's party? Yeah, I couldn't care less if his party wasa destroyed by any means. He's a Nazi and his party makes Andrew Scheer appear like a progressive. Fuck Bernier and his fascist party

Sun, 2019-10-20 04:24

(Reply to #27) #28

Misfit

NorthReport wrote:

So Liberal Kinsella who worked for the Greens was hired recently to attack the People's Party

It seems it is only the NDP that is not involved in this steaming pile of shit

Who knew!

The Greens we're gunning for the NDP. Remember New Brunswickgate?

Sun, 2019-10-20 12:41

(Reply to #28) #29

voice of the damned

alan smithee wrote:

knownothing wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

I hate the Conservatives but I welcome anyone destroying Bernier's Nazi Party

Even by illegal and anti-democratic means?

Bernier's party? Yeah, I couldn't care less if his party wasa destroyed by any means. He's a Nazi and his party makes Andrew Scheer appear like a progressive. Fuck Bernier and his fascist party

Thing is, though, from your perspective as a Liberal supporter, this particular attempt at destroying Bernier's party would be bad news. Because the aim of Kinsella's Conservative paymasters isn't simply to knock off the PPC, but to have the PPC's supporters go back over to the Conservatives, thus allowing the Conservatives to take more seats that would otherwise have gone Liberal.

(None of which speaks to the legality or illegality of what Kinsella did, a topic which I am not qualified to discuss. I'm just saying, if you want the Liberals to win and the Cons to lose, you don't want to be cheering for Kinsella in all this.)

Sun, 2019-10-20 12:45

#30

josh

The only thing for sure that will come out of this is that Kinsella will sue somebody.

Sun, 2019-10-20 13:00

(Reply to #30) #31

bekayne

josh wrote:

The only thing for sure that will come out of this is that Kinsella will sue somebody.

Himself.

Sun, 2019-10-20 13:16

(Reply to #31) #32

Misfit

voice of the damned wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

knownothing wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

I hate the Conservatives but I welcome anyone destroying Bernier's Nazi Party

Even by illegal and anti-democratic means?

Bernier's party? Yeah, I couldn't care less if his party wasa destroyed by any means. He's a Nazi and his party makes Andrew Scheer appear like a progressive. Fuck Bernier and his fascist party

Thing is, though, from your perspective as a Liberal supporter, this particular attempt at destroying Bernier's party would be bad news. Because the aim of Kinsella's Conservative paymasters isn't simply to knock off the PPC, but to have the PPC's supporters go back over to the Conservatives, thus allowing the Conservatives to take more seats that would otherwise have gone Liberal.

(None of which speaks to the legality or illegality of what Kinsella did, a topic which I am not qualified to discuss. I'm just saying, if you want the Liberals to win and the Cons to lose, you don't want to be cheering for Kinsella in all this.)

There is definitely this issue, but at the same time, I don't want to see Maxime Bernier get any hold anywhere. The racism behind his ideology is very dangerous.

I'd like to think that we are better than this. 4-5% support is already alarming. That is 1 in 20-25 voting Canadians, so it is already out there.

This is what disappoints me. Over time, I fear that this hatred of minorities is only going to grow.

Sun, 2019-10-20 13:20

(Reply to #32) #33

knownothing knownothing's picture

Misfit wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

knownothing wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

I hate the Conservatives but I welcome anyone destroying Bernier's Nazi Party

Even by illegal and anti-democratic means?

Bernier's party? Yeah, I couldn't care less if his party wasa destroyed by any means. He's a Nazi and his party makes Andrew Scheer appear like a progressive. Fuck Bernier and his fascist party

Thing is, though, from your perspective as a Liberal supporter, this particular attempt at destroying Bernier's party would be bad news. Because the aim of Kinsella's Conservative paymasters isn't simply to knock off the PPC, but to have the PPC's supporters go back over to the Conservatives, thus allowing the Conservatives to take more seats that would otherwise have gone Liberal.

(None of which speaks to the legality or illegality of what Kinsella did, a topic which I am not qualified to discuss. I'm just saying, if you want the Liberals to win and the Cons to lose, you don't want to be cheering for Kinsella in all this.)

There is definitely this issue, but at the same time, I don't want to see Maxime Bernier get any hold anywhere. The racism behind his ideology is very dangerous.

I'd like to think that we are better than this. 4-5% support is already alarming. That is 1 in 20-25 voting Canadians, so it is already out there.

This is what disappoints me. Over time, I fear that this hatred of minorities is only going to grow.

Ironically, the most nazi-like behaviour is exhibited by those who want to limit democracy and people's freedom to make up their own minds.

Sun, 2019-10-20 13:34

(Reply to #33) #34

bekayne

Misfit wrote:

There is definitely this issue, but at the same time, I don't want to see Maxime Bernier get any hold anywhere. The racism behind his ideology is very dangerous.

I'd like to think that we are better than this. 4-5% support is already alarming. That is 1 in 20-25 voting Canadians, so it is already out there.

This is what disappoints me. Over time, I fear that this hatred of minorities is only going to grow.

Even worse news than the PPC support: polling has shown that most Conservative Party supporters share Bernier's views on immigration.

Sun, 2019-10-20 13:45

(Reply to #34) #35

Pondering

Misfit wrote:

I'd like to think that we are better than this. 4-5% support is already alarming. That is 1 in 20-25 voting Canadians, so it is already out there.

This is what disappoints me. Over time, I fear that this hatred of minorities is only going to grow.

I agree that it is alarming. 1% would be shocking to me. I try to focus on the signs of progress. Singh leading the NDP is one of them.

P.S. I'm glad he refuses to work with the Conservatives.

Sun, 2019-10-20 14:58

(Reply to #35) #36

jerrym

(Reply to #21)

KarlL wrote:

cco wrote:
I find it completely believable that someone who's "on the left of the Liberal Party" is entirely comfortable working for Andrew Scheer. Says something about the Liberal Party, doesn't it?

piss off.

Karl you responded to my post #21 with a comment that was not mine and was extremely rude.

My comment was in response to Mighty Middle's and was purely factual, stating bascially the reason Kinsella called Olivia Chow a terrible candidate was because she had quickly fired him after another of his attack dog comments. On the other hand, the Liberals had used him for twenty two years (1993 to 2015) as an attack dog and even had him run as a Liberal candidate in 1997. You still didn't answer the key question: Why did the Liberals put up with him for so long?

Or is telling people to "p--- off" when confronted with the facts your way of dealing with inconvenient facts from your perspective?

Here is post #21 for reference including the documentation of the Liberals use of the Prince of Darkness Warren Kinsella in federal and provincial elections repeatedly for the 1993 to 2015 period. The Liberals have certainly not been boy scouts when it comes to the dark arts of politics.

Mighty Middle wrote:

Kinsella has some horrible things to say about Olivia Chow, calling her a "terrible" (his word) candidate - writing

http://warrenkinsella.com/2018/09/nick-and-me/

[jerrym wrote]

Kinsella's comments about Chow came after she "effectively booted from Olivia Chow’s mayoral campaign for deriding a rival transit plan as “segregationist,” political strategist Warren Kinsella said that Ms. Chow’s treatment of him “kind of stunk.” She was at least wise enough to get rid of him quickly and in typical Kinsella fashion he attacked her.

In addition to Olivia Chow's mayoral campaign, Warren Kinsella, the self labelled Prince of Darkness, has worked for Liberals, Greens, John Tory's 2018 mayoral campaign and Cons. However, he spent by far most of his time working for the Liberals, both federally and provincially, between 1993 and 2015. Why did the Liberals put up with him for so long?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Kinsella

Mon, 2019-10-21 09:33

(Reply to #36) #37

Mighty Middle

jerrym wrote:

(Reply to #21)

On the other hand, the Liberals had used him for twenty two years (1993 to 2015) as an attack dog

Actually, when Justin Trudeau became Liberal leader, Kinsella was no longer involved with the Liberal Party. Yes, he was an attack dog, but AGANIST Trudeau in his role as a former Liberal strategist on the late Sun News Channel - and he hasn't stopped attacking Trudeau since 2013.

Mon, 2019-10-21 10:08

#38

pietro_bcc

Honestly every party does oppo research and has campaigns to damage other parties and I have yet to see an article on why what the Conservatives did against the PPC breaks the law. They always allude to illegal action but never actually spell out what specific law was broken.

I'm not an expert on electoral law, so I'd really like to know, which law did the Conservatives break in hiring Kinsella's firm?

Mon, 2019-10-21 10:44

(Reply to #38) #39

voice of the damned

pietro_bcc wrote:

Honestly every party does oppo research and has campaigns to damage other parties and I have yet to see an article on why what the Conservatives did against the PPC breaks the law. They always allude to illegal action but never actually spell out what specific law was broken.

I'm not an expert on electoral law, so I'd really like to know, which law did the Conservatives break in hiring Kinsella's firm?

In the Post, Chris Selley argued that there doesn't seem to be anything untoward about what the Conservatives did, but for that very reason, Scheer's refusal to admit it is what raises suspicions. Because if he were to just say "yes, of course", all he'd be copping to is politics-as-usual.

Mon, 2019-10-21 10:53

#40

voice of the damned

^ That said, is there some law in Canada against funding partisan advertising under a different label? My understanding is that Kinsella was taking money from the Conservatives, but distributing the memes using a name that didn't let you know it was a Conservative operation. Maybe that was the problem?

Mon, 2019-10-21 13:06

#41

Policywonk

Of course given what Bernier himself (and some of his candidates) have said it is strange that the Conservatives would think they needed to hire someone to paint them as extremist. It is the refusal to confirm or deny that is the issue.

Mon, 2019-10-21 14:39

(Reply to #41) #42

NorthReport

Well said pw - and best wishes this evening!

Policywonk wrote:

Of course given what Bernier himself (and some of his candidates) have said it is strange that the Conservatives would think they needed to hire someone to paint them as extremist. It is the refusal to confirm or deny that is the issue.