2019 UK election 2

Corbyn could have fought back better against the smear campaign.  But submitting to the demands of the remainers and promising to hold another referendum eliminated any chance to prevent a Tory majority.  Brexit party voters flocked to them and I'm sure Labour lost voters in the northern marginals.

That's Scotland!  Not the English north and midlands.  There were many Labour-leave marginals and I'll bet nearly all went Tory this time.

This tweet from a Labour MPsays it all.

Sorry @daneacross this is one mans fault. His campaign, his manifesto, his leadership. @jeremycorbyn

In my many years of being involving with politics, I have rarely seen a man inflict as much damage on his own party as Jeremy Corbyn.  The arrogance has been astounding.  The total disconnect from reality.  Corbyn is the British equivalent of Michael Ignatieff.  He has nearly destroyed the Labour Party with his loathsome personality.

Nicky has been right all along on this one.  The Corbyn defenders refused to listen to reason.  They refused to see what this man was.  They refused to consider the consequences of long-time Labour supporters and MPs leaving the party in droves.  The man even drove away long-time Jewish supporters of Labour who have supported the party for years.  He created a disgraceful mess.

Despite the disaster of Brexit and 2 Conservative Prime Ministers having to step down because of it, he handed the Conservatives and Boris Johnson a Majority because of his own colossal arrogance.

nicky wrote:

The SNP fought this election on an unambiguous Remain policy and looks to do exceedingly well.

This is certainly an indication that Labour might have done the same.

Scotland has a radically different view of the EU than the English North and Midlands.  It's absurd to compare the two.

Brexit Party took 8.3 in Blyth Valley that cost Labour a seat it had held since 1950.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blyth_Valley_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

"Corbyn was a disaster on the doorstep. Everyone knew he couldn't lead the working class out of a paper bag...I want Momentum out of the party...The worst result since 1935". Says former Labour home secretary Alan Johnson

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1205275792336445441

If anything, NDPP has been shown right in arguing that it was a waste of time trying to appease Remain obsessives.  The same exit poll predicts no gains in seats for the LibDems.  Where Labour has lost votes is in Leave areas-this means the party should have focused solely on working out the most inclusive, non-xenophobic and economically egalitarian form of Brexit possible, not on a pointless second referendum.

As I've said, once Corbyn caved to the remainers and promised another referendum, any chance to stop a Tory majority went out the window.  He didn't do that in 2017.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/blaming-corbyn-like-much-of-th...

Will Corbyn do the right thing and step down?

If Scheer can step down after losing one election, how many more losess will it take to convince Corbyn to do the same?

I'm sure Corbyn will step down.  

This result should be welcomed by Trump. Both because it shows his style of hateful clown politics can still work and because the US private health insurers will now have a clear shot at breaking up the post-Brexit NHS.

Debater wrote:

Will Corbyn do the right thing and step down?

If Scheer can step down after losing one election, how many more losess will it take to convince Corbyn to do the same?

Of course Corbyn will step down, you moron. He never wanted to be leader in the first place, but when the left Labour MPs drew straws, he got the short one. He did his best (which was pretty good) to overcome the blizzard of smears from the entire british establishment, especially Blairite Labour MPs, but they were too much for him to overcome. Hopefully there will be at least one leadership candidate to carry on the same socialist program, and if there is that candidate will win the leadership easily.

Possible successors to Corbyn:

https://www.theweek.co.uk/91412/labour-leadership-contenders-will-it-finally-be-a-women

In tonight's results, the only party making significant gains in the popular vote-though thank the gods not in seats-is the Brexit Party-and the only reason they are making those gains is that Corbyn was forced to pledge to a second referendum  The LibDem vote is barely increasing at all, and it's likely that every former Labour MP who defected to the LibDems or ChangeUK has lost there seats. 

Had Labour stayed with its 2017 position-which recognized that Brexit was a settled matter-there would have been no losses in the North and Northeast tonight. 
 

Yes.  

John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, has just told Sky News that he won’t stand for the Labour leadership, even just as a temporary candidate. He said:

I’m not standing for leader of the Labour party – I’ve said that time and time again – either as a temporary, or as a permanent. That’s not what I want to do.

josh wrote:

McDonnell as interim leader followed by Long-Bailey would work.

Or McDonnell followed by Rayner.  Starmer will be seen, along with Tom Watson, as one of the great saboteurs of this campaign.   

And next party conference, which should be held before the leadership vote, needs to see the adoption of Open Selection for all sitting MPs seeking re-election as well as in all seats the party is trying to gain.

The Remainers and the PLP caused this by undermining Corbyn til the last...they're the ones who should pay.

Ken Burch wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

josh wrote:

In tonight's results, the only party making significant gains in the popular vote-though thank the gods not in seats-is the Brexit Party-and the only reason they are making those gains is that Corbyn was forced to pledge to a second referendum  The LibDem vote is barely increasing at all, and it's likely that every former Labour MP who defected to the LibDems or ChangeUK has lost there seats. 

Had Labour stayed with its 2017 position-which recognized that Brexit was a settled matter-there would have been no losses in the North and Northeast tonight. 
 

Yes.  

In the counted seats the LD are up 3.3 and Brexit 3.2 and in Scotland the SNP is up 9... What am I missing?

That has changed since I posted my remarks.  Still, it's evidence that Labour had far more to lose from trying to appease the Remainers, as Corbyn went as far as he could possibly go in doing, than it would have by telling the Remainers to move on and accept that defending Labour values mattered far more than a bourgeois trade agreement.

Also, Remain support in Scotland is motivated by different factors than Remain support in the South of England.  In the IndyRef, Scots were told by Westminster-and this seems to have been the deciding factor-that, if they left the UK, they would not be allowed to stay in the EU, on the grounds that it was only the UK as a whole that was admitted to the EU, not each component country.  This issue was probably the only reason Scotland voted against independence.  After that, Cameron called the EU referendum and Scotland ended up with the prospect of being forced out of the EU against its wishes.

 

Ok thanks. I was somewhat confused between the actual votes and the exit polls that I could not find popular vote for. 

Labour was never going to gain seats or votes in Scotland by going all-0ut Remain there.  The only chance it had of making gains there was in going as close to supporting Scottish independence(or at least the "Devo Max" proposal in which as many powers would be devolved to the Holyrood Parliament as possible from Westminster without Scotland actually leaving the UK.

Since Corybn is a committed supporter of the preservation of the UK-as any leader of Westminster Labour would pretty much have to be-he simply couldn't take that position.

It's worth nothing that it's likely that Jo Swinson, the arch-Remainer of all arch-Remainers, is likely to lose her seat in Scotland to the SNP tonight.

Labour was never going to gain seats or votes in Scotland by going all-0ut Remain there.  The only chance it had of making gains there was in going as close to supporting Scottish independence(or at least the "Devo Max" proposal in which as many powers would be devolved to the Holyrood Parliament as possible from Westminster without Scotland actually leaving the UK.

Since Corybn is a committed supporter of the preservation of the UK-as any leader of Westminster Labour would pretty much have to be-he simply couldn't take that position.

(on edit)It's worth noting that it's likely that Jo Swinson, the arch-Remainer of all arch-Remainers,  lost her seat in Scotland to the SNP tonight.  Good riddance.   All Swinson did was to help Boris get re-elected.

Commentator Jamarl Thomas on why Labour lost. This validates the prediction he made earlier.

This election shows that globalism is dead. I absolutely agree with josh and NDPP that Corbyn backing down on Brexit killed any chances to Labour. Traditionally Brexit was seen as a right-wing project, but in recent times, we have seen Brexit defenders from the left rise up. They aruged that Labour would not be able to implement its own agenda under the deal it would have negotiated. They also argued that even if Boris implemented Brexit that as a free country they would be able to vote him out of office and take a different path.

Globalization is dead. One of the arguments in favour of remaining was that you could go to school and travel throughout Europe on a British passport. If you've just lost your job and are struggling to find a place to live, what benefit is that to you? Doesn't that seem more like a priviledge than anything else? It's been mind-boggling how globalists (represented in the UK by the Remain camp) are tone-deaf to how hated they really are. I think that the left worshiping at the altar of higher education while neglecting the working class plays into this. Take a look at how educated voters generally lean more to the left. (American journalist Krystal Ball refers to this group as the Professional Managerial Class.) "You must be stupid to vote for the right," people say. How many people does that convinve? Well, I would say many bad things about former Prime Minister Stephen Harper, but "stupid" is not one of them. I think the contrast between the Warren and Sanders campaigns illustrates this. Warren will fight for lower (or even free) tuition so that the working class can get an education and be more like her. But for the working class on its own? Forget it, nothing on offer. This approach does not help fishing communities on the East Coast, forestry communities in BC, farm communities in the Prairies, mining and pulp and paper communities in northern Ontario, Manitoba, and Quebec, mining towns in Appalachia, factory towns in the rust belt, or even those communities in northern England which have apparently swung away from Labour tonight. This approach simply takes talented people out of those communities, and leaves these communities behind. Is it any wonder that they feel bitter? And who can forget the hypocritical approach of the left preaching tolerance while branding anyone who disagrees with their orthodoxy on identity politcs as racist, sexist, homophobic, etc? Don't also forget the large numbers of people who have been educated and still struggle in low-wage jobs or with unemployment, and the scam that higher education has become is becoming more and more apparent.

Much as it pains me to say this, but when Alex Jones says that the globalists are conspiring to take everything away from people, he is right. That's why he resonates with so many people. The problem is that he redirects that frustration into ridiculous conspiracy theories and onto more vulnerable sectors of the population. We need to reinvigourate those communities. Sanders will go on Fox News and tell the commenters to their face why they are wrong about Medicare for All. Is it any wonder that Trump voters respect him? Is it any surprise that he's in the top 3 of Democratic candidates who have cross-over appeal with people who voted for Trump in 2016? We need to respect that innate human need for people to identify with their local communities, and find ways to help empower those communities to meet their needs and become inclusive in the process. Only then will clowns like Johnson, Trump, Bolsonaro, Duterte, Erdoan, and Morrison lose their influence and power over people.

nicky wrote:

The SNP fought this election on an unambiguous Remain policy and looks to do exceedingly well.

This is certainly an indication that Labour might have done the same.

The Liberal Democrats took that approach and got hammered.

This election has been an unmitigated disaster for the people of the UK. Labour never had a chance of winning this election as they were damned no matter what position they took on Brexit. Corbyn should have avoided this election at all costs especially after his approval ratings hit rock bottom.  Now Labour and, more importantly, the UK will have to watch the Conservatives run the UK until at least the next election set in 5 long years for May of 2024. I suspect that by then the Conservatives will have inflicted a lot more damage on the UK. It will be interesting to see what kind of Brexit deal Boris makes with the EU. My guess is that both Leavers and Remainers will both be disappointed with Boris's Brexit. And it looks like the UK will be mired in at least another half decade of austerity after this lost decade of austerity. Boris might even be able to sign a trade deal with the US that will lock in right-wing economic policies for the UK even if Labour is able to form a government one day in the future. What a sad day for the UK! Scotland and Northern Ireland would be right in removing themselves from this disaster area. And the EU will also probably be much better off without this "sick man of Europe."

..labour did what it needed to do. it did the right thing. it provided a very progressive platform. this was rejected. 

..party campaigns are never perfect and the expectation that it be all seeing is absurd. and i maintain that brexit was/is a false issue because everyone has their own definition of what it is including those on this board. and labour had theirs. now the only opinion that matters are that of extreme tories. and johnson recently commented that he would have to come to an arrangement with the eu. the criticism that labour wasn't tough enough on the accusers of antisemitism well the uk has just voted for an openly proud racist. the contradictions are huge.

..i'm coming round to thinking this was similar to the election of trump. the election of ford. there's an enormous price to pay for that kind of thinking. 

..on top of this labour could again be taken over by the blairites. why would young folks stick around after the country rejected this platform. and what now for the poor, the poc, the climate? they are fucked.