Jeremy Corbyn rated top anti-Semite of 2019

He should sue the hell out of them. 

Absolutely.

bekayne wrote:

He should sue the hell out of them. 

Doubt there would be a court in the UK or the US that would side with the complainant in that suit. I think courts in the anglosphere generally hold that we're free to speculate about sinister motivations of public figures, even with a lack of evidence. ("Why did Trudeau fire Jody Wilson-Raybould? 'Cuz he's a fucking racist misogynist who can't stand having powerful First Nation women in his cabinet!!" I've seen the basic gist of that one all over the place, even though there will likely never be any hard evidence produced.)

Not that I think it really matters, since the Wiesenthal Center is pretty much a joke on most issues related to Israel/Palestine, but the Jewish Press article slightly distorts what they said...

Jewish Press...

British Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn has won this year’s honor of being named the Top Anti-Semitic Person of 2019 by the Simon Wiesenthal Center.

However, the Daily Mail article on which the Press bases its reporting doesn't actually quote the Wiesenthal Center as calling Corbyn himself an anti-semite. The closest they get is to describe the "Corbyn-led Labour Party" as an "anti-semetic incident", and then write...

 'No one has done more to mainstream antisemitism into the political and social life of a democracy than the Jeremy Corbyn-led Labour Party.

'Members and staff who have dared to speak out against the hate were purged, but not those who declared 'Heil Hitler' and 'F*** the Jews.'

You can read the rest of the Center's post at the Mail's homepage.

Granted, there isn't a lot of daylight between the cited quotes, and saying that Corbyn is an anti-semite. But still, if we are going to discuss a group's comments, it's good to be clear about what precisely they said.

Bernie is also getting called an anti-Semite: https://forward.com/opinion/436814/of-course-theyre-calling-bernie-sande...

Isn't that an insult to his murdered family in Poland?

Never knew that Article 49 of the 1949 Geneva Convention and affirming another group's right to self-determination was anti-Semitic.

1. The Simon Wiesenthal Center is not a serious anti-racist organization. 

2. They did not in fact call Corbyn the top anti-semite of the year. They ranked the prospect of a Labour government as the worst anti-semitic event of the year. As VoTD points out, these are not the same things and facts still matter.  

3. SWC released this news early in an attempt to influence the UK election (the rest of the list came out Dec. 18). It isn't based on any actual research, it's just a political poster. 

4. Here are the comments that ranked only #10 - behind Rashida Tlaib's support for BDS and an anti-IDF protest at York University: 

Rick Wiles, a non-denominational, Florida-based pastor and popular radio host who promotes racist and anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, labeled the House impeachment proceedings against President Donald Trump a, “Jew coup”. In a November 21st video that went viral, Wiles declared, “That’s the way the Jews work. They are deceivers. They plot. They lie. They do whatever they’ve had to do to accomplish their political agenda.” And, “Should the Jews take over the country, they will conduct a purge… That’s the next thing that happens when Jews take over a country – they kill millions of Christians.” 

Now that's anti-semitism. 

5. I want to support Unionist's concerns about the NDPP's comments resembling 'the usual "Jews run the world" tropes.' 

Full SWC list at http://www.wiesenthal.com/assets/pdf/top-ten-anti-semitic.pdf

Great post, swallow.   RE: point 5, would you or Unionist offer alternative wording that would not prompt these concerns?  I absolutely agree that the true puppetmasters are the billionaire class, and the strength/power of the "Jewish lobby" has been vastly exagerrated by paranoid anti-semites.   How is it possible in today's politics to talk about the existance of a pro-Israeli lobby and perhaps even debate it's relative influence and power (or discuss it's recent "successes", like the Corbyn smear or the adoption of the IHRA in various countries) without bringing to mind the same tropes?    

Please believe me this is a genuine question, it may very well be an ignorant one, but if so I'm being honestly ignorant here.  I have been surprised recently by friends of mine who read and believed National Post coverage of the York University anti-semitism controversy, and found myself hesitant to engage.   Any advice or comment you may have on this would be greatly appreciated.

Unionist wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Are we prepared to let this same ever more powerful lobby continue to have its way with our politics and our politicians? When do we say enough is enough?

The Simon Wiesenthal Centre, whether in the U.S. or Canada, is among the worst of the right-wing fanatical pro-Israel lobbies.

But what makes you say they are "ever more powerful"? What makes you say they have their way with our politics and our politicians? What does "enough is enough" mean - banning them?

My first impression of your over-the-top paranoid comment was how it resembles the usual "Jews run the world" tropes. Is it not possible to condemn and oppose their politics without suggesting that our poor little politicians are mere puppets being manipulated by some dark sinister force? Because the puppet masters are the billionaire class. Not the Simon Wiesenthal Centre.

Indeed.  I stand with Unionist on this.  My remarks upthread should be taken purely as condemnation of the continuation of the AS slur against Corbyn, NOT as any endorsement of NDPP's paranoia about the "Israel lobby".

^ If I'm not mistaken, that's Finkelstein being quoted there. I'm guessing that, being Jewish, he maybe thinks he can use those words, sort of the way some black people think it's okay for one of their own to call someone the n-word.

And I thought maybe the "hoodlums" thing was an echo of Vanessa Redgrave's famous Oscar speech from the 70s? (Available on YouTube.)

voice of the damned wrote:

^ If I'm not mistaken, that's Finkelstein being quoted there. I'm guessing that, being Jewish, he maybe thinks he can use those words, sort of the way some black people think it's okay for one of their own to call someone the n-word.

Yeah, JKR, I would agree with VOTD here. Finkelstein is also the son of Holocaust survivors, and is a prolific, progressive, and controversial writer and speaker on that matter (author of "The Holocaust Industry", for example), and on Israel/Palestine. He's allowed to talk that way - and however offensive it might sound, his remarks are likely factual. He's calling on progressive people to resist that pressure - not the same at all as saying that some Jewish organization "has their way" with politics and politicians.

NDPP wrote:

all organizations supporting and promoting Israel* should be banned

Um, no. And it's not because I think opposing Isreal is anti-semitic(I don't think that for one second), just that I think it's a pretty clear constitutional right for a group to say they like a particular country, without having the cops kick down their door the next day. 

As for Toronto being "the most Zionist city in the world", it's quite possible that Israel is more popular there than in numerouso other places(eg. QAIA never seemed to cause much stir when tbey marched in Edmonton Pride). But you should also keep in mind that, an Israeli politician, seeking to appeal to a pro-Israel audience in Toronto, might very well pander to local pride by saying "You guys here in Toronto are the best!", just because devotees of a particular ideology often like hearing that their beloved home-region is the No. 1 place for that ideology.

AMERICAN LIBERAL: I wish we had a progressive leader, like that cool guy Trudeau up in Canada.

CANADIAN LIBERAL: Wow, that's MY country he's talking about!!

josh wrote:

My general impression is that Jews in the U.S. are far more critical of Israel than Jews in Canada and the UK.  Whether that's because they're more numerous, secure or diverse, I don't know.  Or maybe because Christian Zionists are far more numerous and influential.  And there's nothing non-Orthodox U.S. Jews detest more than the Bible belt fundys.

Possibly, also that US foreign-policy is more directly tied to Israel than Canada's is. So, you have(for examaple) more politicians saying stuff like "Israel is a beacon of hope for Jewish people around the world", which might prompt some American Jews to think more critically about the validity of such statements.

Related to that, of course, the US sends a lot of foreign-aid to Israel. Not sure what Canada's aid to Israel is as a percentage of government spending, but I would bet that it's far less than what the US spends. I'm open to any information someone may have on that.

NDPP wrote:

SAIA Demands That Herut Canada And the JDL Be Permanently Banned From York University

https://twitter.com/dimitrilascaris/status/1207064332569382912

"I act as legal counsel to SAIA. As I explained in my latest blog post, my clients have issued to the administration of York University a demand that the racist Herut Canada and the Jewish Defence League be banned permanently from campus."

All Canadian politicians in favour say 'aye'....(crickets) Guess which side this minister is most likely to take?

https://twitter.com/IsraelinToronto/status/1206998624158310400

Isn't it the general principle of academic freedom, enunicated on these forums numerous times, that politicians and elected officials should not weigh in on which groups are allowed to operate or speak on campus?

I gather that Students Against Israeli Apartheid is a campus-based group, so they are well within their rights to engage in debate about which groups are allowed onto the university's space. But politicians, especially if part of the government and hence having control over the funding of higher-education, are expected to stay out of such discussions. 

French JDL threatened a (Jewish) friend of mine in Paris, and a similar group (don't remember whether JDL or another, similar group) did the same here.

JKR wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

^ If I'm not mistaken, that's Finkelstein being quoted there. I'm guessing that, being Jewish, he maybe thinks he can use those words, sort of the way some black people think it's okay for one of their own to call someone the n-word.

I could find a quote by an African-American that uses the n-word to criticize African-Americans but I think it would be racist if I did that since I am not an African-American and the n-word supports racism.  I think if a person uses a quote to make a point they should stand behind the point they are making through the use of that quote. I think NDPP agrees with the "Jewish hoodlums" quote he used to criticize some Jews. I think anti-Semites could use that quote to bolster anti-Semitism. I think criticism of the State of Israel should use the term "Zionism" instead of the term "Jewish."

Agreed. None of the issues with Israel have anything to do with Jewish identity or with Judaism as religion(s) or culture(s).  They are all related to the fact that the state and the ideology behind it have degenerated into nothing more than bigoted, militaristic reactionary nationalism.

I thought the reason NDPP posted that quote was to show how Israel and "the wonderful Jewish community of Toronto" are unified.

I think NDPP has also posted quotes stating that Toronto is the most Zionist city in the world!

Okay weighing in here. NDPP, this is not your first anti-semitism rodeo. Many will recall that you characterized Israelis as Nazis, for which you were censured. This isn't much different. You need to limit your criticisms to Zionists, not Jews, because the two are not synonymous. Use phrases like "Jewish hoodlums" again and I will bounce your ass out of here.

lagatta4 wrote:

Another factor to remember is that some of the most hardline Likudists aren't Jewish at all, but fundamentalist Christians who believe in the "Rapture" and white nationalists who hate both Jews and Arabs and would like their own countries to be "cleansed" of them.

And the part of the "Last Days" those Evangelical Likudniks like the best is the part are Jews are forced to choose between conversion to Christianity or death.  Never understand why anybody anywhere would ally themselves with people who essentially wanted them to be killed if they didn't agree to stop being who they are.

The only people who can use the term the Jewish state appear to be the fascist Israeli government everyone else is an anti-Semite. What a bizarro world where Israel can proudly proclaim itself to be the Jewish homeland and purport to speak for the Jewish world but anyone else using the term Jewish to describe them is an anti-Semite. Even on babble, like in the NDP, the linguistic box that one is allowed to discuss the fascist state of Israel in is very narrow and driven by the fear of the despicable people who run that apartheid state that orders the murderer of innocent Palestinians like they were Germans in the 1940's.

No one is saying you can't post "dissenting views".  You just need to make a clear and absolute distinction between Zionists, on the one hand, and people who simply happen to be Jewish on the other.  Not that hard to do.