So let me understand your position Ken.
Mulcair was totally to blame for his loss.
Corbyn however is totally blameless for his.
Are you serious?
I have never once said Corbyn was "blameless". I did a detailed critique of his leadership upthread. I simply don't accept that it was ALL his fault. A good chunk of the blame has to be assigned to the PLP for refusing to ever accept him as leader and for disrespecting him and sabotaging him, for not being willing to accept anything short of Corbyn leaving without getting any guarantees that his departure would not result in the PLP blocking all credible left candidates from the ballot to replace him or any guarantee that his supporters would not be driven out the way Neil Kinnock drove virtually all socialists out of the party after 1987.
I acknowledged several mistakes on Corbyn's part-so does Corbyn.
You are acting as if the only possible stances a person could take on this was that Corbyn should never even have been allowed to stand for the leadership and nothing the party was about should have changed at all from the dead zone of 2015, or worshipping the man like a fucking god or something.
I supported him because I thought he was the most decent and honest person who had led the party since at least Attlee, perhaps since Keir Hardie, and did so knowing he had flaws and weaknesses like anybody else.
Corbyn made mistakes-
1) He never defended himself and his supporters against the false accusations and the smears.
2) He could probably have organized the rollout of policy ideas better this year.
3) He should never have given into the deluded, arrogant Remainers and committed the party to a second referendum-and, by the same token, the Remainers should have accepted that the referendum put the issue to rest, and should have moved on to working for a smooth transition out of the EU as the voters clearly wanted, because they knew they were doing nothing but damage in trying to force Corbyn to commit the party to an all-out(and by definition right wing and antiworker) Remain position with the Labour leadership pledged to fight for Remain in a second referendum, a second referendum Leave probably would have ended up winning anyway simply because nobody trusted any of the Remain leadership and there was no real case for trying to stay in the EU anyway, knowing that it was a reactionary, antidemocratic and antisocialist institution on economic, spending, and taxation policy, knowing that it would treat any socialist government as it treated Greece, and knowing it was a totally unchangeable institution.
4) Corbyn should probably have been firmer with the PLP-should have withdrawn the party whip from at least one of the MPs who was sabotaging him.. He should have told the anti-Corbyn MPs that any Labour MP or candidate who attacked the party or publicly disrespected him DURING local, EU, or general election campaigns would be asked to stand down as a Labour candidate, and would run the risk of expulsion for "bringing the party into disrepute". This would have read as stong leadership and the voters would have respected him for it.
5) He should have called the PLP's bluff right after the 2017 election, and made the offer to stand down IN EXCHANGE for the guarantees I have repeatedly mentioned-that there would be a strong left candidate on the leadership ballot and that whoever won there would be no retribution against his supporters. You'd have to agree that neither of these was too much to ask, I think.
6) He should have done a party political broadcast on AS, making clear he would, as he always had, fight it to the last, and making it clear that while bigotry against and hatred of Jewish people or Judaism is indefensible, criticism of what the Israeli government does to Palestinians is NEVER comparable to hatred of Jews or of Judauism, and that anti-Zionism is only anti-Semitism when the person or persons espousing anti-Zionism or even non-Zionism is only taking t out of clear and explicit hostility to Jews and Judaism.
7)The policy rollout should have started earlier, and all policies announced by the first week of the campaign. The focus should have been mainly on defense of and full funding for the NHS and the rail and water nationalization pledges, and on economic renewal, by interventionist methods if need be, of the North and Northeast of England.
These are critiques I made up thread and repeat now. I've never said Corbyn made no mistakes-it's just that I reject the ideas that A) Corbyn had no business running for the leadership. He had to run, as no one else in either leadership race had any significant Labour values at all; or that B) Corbyn deserved all the vitriol and lies thrown at him.
The result was the combination of
A) Corbyn's mistakes, as listed above;
B) The lies spread by the BBC, the Murdoch press, the Tories and the LibDems(whose leader was defeated, I think, at least in part because her role in the campaign was so throughly odious)
C) The treachery of the PLP and the right-wing of the Labour bureaucracy, both of which chose, to the bitter end, to give a higher priority to sabotaging their own party's leader than to doing what they were supposed to do, which was fight for the defeat of the Tory government and the election of a Labour government.
So no, I don't think Corbyn is blameless. I just don't think he deserves all or even MOST of the blame.
Do you understand the distinction there?
Do you also understand that there simply wasn't anybody else who'd have been able to step in as leader in the run-up to the election or during it who would have been ready to handle the job or could possibly have put together a coherent case for electing Labour with THAT person as leader?
And do you understand that the collapse in Labour Leave seats-without which Boris would have been denied a majority-was caused, to a very large degree, by Corbyn being forced to accept a second referendum, that the collapse in the North and North East would have been even greater with an all-out Remainer, especially an all-out Blairite Remainer, coming in as leader? That there was no argument any Labour Remain leader could have made that could possibly have held the votes of Labour Leave voters?
If you respond to my posts from now on, please respond to what I've actually written, not to the strawman arguments you prefer to imagine me making. I've never claimed that Corbyn was flawless and I don't want him to stay on as leader for the next election. Also, he has made it clear he'll be gone in eight weeks or so, so there is no point in anyone fighting to force him to leave before then and no justification for insisting that he be humiliated and forced into the outer darkness. He deserves no worse treatment that Mulcair got after his total electoral failure in 2015, and he won't try to hang on for years afterwords like Mulcair so pointlessly did.