Iran 3

780 posts / 0 new

Mon, 2020-01-13 10:24

iyraste1313

But when it comes to questionning a government that is killing its own people many make excuses or refraim from any acknowledgment. This is disgusting and embarassing......

It is not a case of making excuses.....Iran and USA are at war. While of course, taking a civilian life is a crime of war, the USA and NATO must take partial blame, as they are clearly supporting the protests, and as in the case of Maidan, well documented, were reponsible for a number of deaths, via their snipers, and as revealed with the statement of the Iraq leader from the threats of Trump in their conversations.

What is clear is that protests are being weaponized as a tool of war.....This is a crime against the peace!

Mon, 2020-01-13 10:44

#503

NDPP

"The Khamenei regime has never been under more stress - Regime change is in the air. The people of Iran can see it. America, Europe and France should not try to prop it up or negotiate with its illegimate representatives."

https://twitter.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1216334443880775680

'America Hears You. America Supports You!'

https://twitter.com/RealScottRitter/status/1216327620704505856

"Everyone reading this should know that Mike Pompeo has openly sided with the MEK, a terrorist group, and Reza Pahlavi, the son of the Shah overthrown in 1979. America has never sided with the people of Iran, only those fringe elements who further US policy objectives."

Mon, 2020-01-13 13:26

#504

Sean in Ottawa

as I said in the other Iran thread, think about how legal responsibility works. Three critical principles:

1) Responsibility when held by more than one party is not dimished. We do not have to argue between the US and Iran and Ukraine how to divide responsiblility adding up to 100% more than one person can have 100% responsibility.

2) When you take an action your responsibility is in part based on how predictable the result is. I am not using legal terms becuase I want this to be the most clear but this is the point. You can look at predictability in two ways: what a reasonable person would believe and what, if you have evidence, the parties believed. In this case, the chain of events was both predictable (not in specifics but that something bad would happen) by a reasonable person and by the US itself. Iran is known for high corruption by the USs own measure (and Trump is a personal expert on it). Corruption leads to breakdown -- people get jobs becuase they know someone not becuase they can do it. Bad things are ignored. It is not shocking that the Iran government would now say that the gunner could not communicate either with the airport or the plane. (They could have had a cell phone in the tower and a cell phone in the battery.) The economic pressure as well has degraded the Iranian military operations. It was predictable that the Iranians would respond and that this response would be dangerous for the Iranian people. This was predicted by the US government itself.

3) You are responsible if damaged is caused that is from a chain of events that comes from an illegal act. Trump's assasination in Iraq was an illegal act.

When people are debating about responsibility and saying that Iranian responsibility overtakes American responsibility -- they should understand these principles. It also means that we should be unafraid of exploring Iranian or Ukrainian responsibility having implications about American responsibility.

these are critical understandings given that many feel that to accuse one of responsibility absolves the others.

Mon, 2020-01-13 13:26

#505

Sean in Ottawa

Double post -- these are very frequent now

Mon, 2020-01-13 14:13

(Reply to #505) #506

Sean in Ottawa

iyraste1313 wrote:

But when it comes to questionning a government that is killing its own people many make excuses or refraim from any acknowledgment. This is disgusting and embarassing......

It is not a case of making excuses.....Iran and USA are at war. While of course, taking a civilian life is a crime of war, the USA and NATO must take partial blame, as they are clearly supporting the protests, and as in the case of Maidan, well documented, were reponsible for a number of deaths, via their snipers, and as revealed with the statement of the Iraq leader from the threats of Trump in their conversations.

What is clear is that protests are being weaponized as a tool of war.....This is a crime against the peace!

I never said ever that the US should not take a share of the blame. I have explained that further now.

Your statement that the protest are weaponized as a tool of war is shameful and disgusting. They are being reported widely, yes. They are demanding an end to the regime, yes. But they should not be smeared by arm-chair quarterbacks in Canada. they are taking tremendous risks and many outside Iran know that and feel bound to give them attention.

The Iranian community in Canada and the US as well as in Iran was appalled at the low level of interest Iranian deaths had in November.

I know as a fact that many in the Iranian community wrote to MSM complaining that it was not covered enough and told them they had blood on their hands for that. This is not always a grand conspiracy and you do not always know all the angles. The media here is being pressed by many expat Iranians to cover the story. Not to weaponize it for US purposes but to guilt the media into showing the story.

The media likes it when people bleed. The people are bleeding and the media is still often too lazy to cover it becuase it is not easy or cheap.

Think about what you write becuase you are smearing both the protestors, the people clamouring for them to be heard and any in the media who respond.

The fact that Trump tweats and tries to make it about himself is predictable but not the whole story.

Be more responsible with your tweats. Please. They are hurtful to Iranians in Canada becuase they are not accurate and they insinuate things that I am not even sure you mean to insinuate. You may not have been aware of people pressing the media to cover the story on behalf of the people there but now you are. Not everything is about the US in a binary us (whomever that is) against them (whomever that is) thing. Please try to be more sophisticated and learn at bit more. You are posting so much in this thread that again, I beg you to speak to a few Iranian Canadians just to get a little more understanding than you are getting from your existing knowledge and biases and what you are reading and liking or hating based on those.

We are supposed to speak for people and against oppression on this site. I beg the people posting in this thread, out of respect for the families who lost people, to take some time away from posting and speak to some Iranian Canadians. At least that could allow you to speak more respectfully about this incident that is affecting your neighbours.

Also if you want to speak for Iran in its struggle with the US, take a few minutes to learn about the country and its history in the 20th century. You can just read the wiki pages if that is all you have time for. Certainly that takes no more time than a single researched post. the internet allows you to react quickly but it also allows you to learn quickly. There is lots of fodder there if you want to attack the US -- the propping up of the Shah in 1953 and later; the resistance to Iran establishing a pro Iranian policy for its own oil; the excesses and mistakes of the Shah; the revolution of 1979 and the fact that many at the time wanted the Shah gone but soemthing better than this to result; That many also got swept up in the propaganda and have remorse for that now. You can read about the more recent events too -- many are more known here about the Iran Nuclear deal but also about the fact that a lot of dirty money laundering is being done in Canada that benefits the Regime and is used against the people - Canada is silent becuase too much money and profit is flowing in.

There is a lot you can read with diverse sources in a matter of minutes before you post here dozens of times a day uncritically and without any real knowledge.

I think that generally one of my biggest frustration on this site that is supposed to be an exchange of thought and ideas is that it is dominated by people who do not start a new topic by spending even a little time learning about what they are writing about. Too many posts about too many topics are made without enough grounding in just a little background reading. This is at times on legal and constitutional or political issues in Canada. It is especially insulting though when Canadians cry about their anti-imperialism and then post out of their behinds about other countries without speaking to anyone who knows anything or even reading the most basic primer on the place. This too is an example of imperialism: people wanting to puff themselves up and hear themselves speak without spending even a few minutes to aquire some knowledge (they just loook for a stream of any old garbage that agrees with them and posts it without any anlysis or context. When you post an article here it should be with some comment. This comment should include why you are positing it and if you agree with it. Instead we ge these posts coming from ignorance and without any accountability becuase sure they can say they only "shared" it but not with any thought, accountability or responsibility to say what it means. This way if the article is bogus you get to run and hide full of intellectuat cowardice.

I know I am pissing off a lot of people here and nobody likes it but at some point these are the weaknesses about thjis site that we should face. We do not have to change our biases to read, be accountable for why we are posting something, to take the time to know something at the most basic level. If this were the culture here you would see readership and participation grow. You would see a greater diversity of opinion and you might even see greater respect to other people. I always will respect who demonstrates knowledge and I have a tendancy to be unspeakably rude to those who post aggressively out of their ass without knowing what they are talking about particualrly when theya re attacking while doing so. There is something wrong with the posting culture here and it is verging on a groupthink that is berift of knowledge, diversity and tolerance.

Mon, 2020-01-13 14:03

#507

kropotkin1951

Sean in trying to overthrow Chavez the US backed opposition used snipers to kill crowd members and so did the Ukrainian "revolutionaries". In Bolivia they are not using snipers because since the coup it has become as oppressive as Saudi Arabia or Bahrain so protesting is taking ones life in their hands. They are our allies in the fight against the evil repressive Iranian regime.

I disagree completely that anyone in this thread has written anything disrespectful about the protestors. Your response reminds me of the Egyptian uprising where talking about the possibility of Western manipulation was considered taboo and insulting to the brave people in the streets. In 2020 looking back there is no doubt that the CIA and Mossad and other agencies were on the ground and the people in the streets got used and betrayed. I have no idea why you think the dynamic of those very same forces would not exist inside Iran at this time.

The truth is we have no idea what Iranian society would be like without the century's old Western interference in their internal affairs in an effort to control the oil reserves. The best thing we can do to help the people in Iran who want change is too speak out against the US/NATO presence in the area and its use of illegal assassinations. Lets not forget they killed Iraqi "allies" in the incident that started the latest escalation so the premise that the same actors might be targeting civilians to create chaos is not far fetched but I think highly probable. We are responsible for their actions and we need to speak out against them.

Mon, 2020-01-13 14:35

(Reply to #507) #508

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Sean in trying to overthrow Chavez the US backed opposition used snipers to kill crowd members and so did the Ukrainian "revolutionaries". In Bolivia they are not using snipers because since the coup it has become as oppressive as Saudi Arabia or Bahrain so protesting is taking ones life in their hands. They are our allies in the fight against the evil repressive Iranian regime.

I disagree completely that anyone in this thread has written anything disrespectful about the protestors. Your response reminds me of the Egyptian uprising where talking about the possibility of Western manipulation was considered taboo and insulting to the brave people in the streets. In 2020 looking back there is no doubt that the CIA and Mossad and other agencies were on the ground and the people in the streets got used and betrayed. I have no idea why you think the dynamic of those very same forces would not exist inside Iran at this time.

The truth is we have no idea what Iranian society would be like without the century's old Western interference in their internal affairs in an effort to control the oil reserves. The best thing we can do to help the people in Iran who want change is too speak out against the US/NATO presence in the area and its use of illegal assassinations. Lets not forget they killed Iraqi "allies" in the incident that started the latest escalation so the premise that the same actors might be targeting civilians to create chaos is not far fetched but I think highly probable. We are responsible for their actions and we need to speak out against them.

To your first paragraph - sure and not relevant. The people in Iran do not need to know your culture of revolution and declare alliance with them to be legitimate. You are showing your own brand of imperialism here.

Your assumptions and comparisons in your second paragraph come out of your darkest place. The people there reacted furiously from a vigil for their fellow students. To suggest otherwise is a example of the garbage in this thread. Have some shred of evidence before you make disgusting statements that we should assume that what is happening in Iran is the same.

Here is the cold truth: peoples' protests in the world are smothered by their own governments, the US interests or useful idiots like you who come out with this kind of vomit.

Do you know anyone in those protests or related to those people or friends with them? Do you have ANY evidence other than the trite crap that it happened before (what has happened before does not mean that everything that happens is the same thing).? You have this Russian communist revolution fetish I know. Were they just tools of other countries? Can you reduce 1917 to a German plot? How dare you suggest that only the socialist revolution of 1917 and others you mention are legitimate becuase that is what you are doing.

People. Might. Want. Somthing. Other. Than. What. You. Want. And. Still. Be. Legitimate.

Why do you think that you have any authority to put this garbage here? You are the one who stated your belief that even Canada cuold have been part of shooting down the plane with the US and NATO. You have lost the plot. Maybe years ago.

You say we have no idea what Iranian society wants. How many Iranians have you talked to? I have not spoken to many maybe only a couple dozen and read many more. How about you? Have you had days of Farsi comments translated to you? Have you been watching Iranians speak on various Iranian local and overseas networks (with a person beside translating)? What makes you think that everything you pull out of your ass is true?

But you imperialist hypocritical fool, you are no authority to decide what the best thing we can do for the Iranians after you have given up on even knowing what they want. You paternalistic imperialist.

Take some time from vomiting in this thread and speak to a few Iranian Canadians and you might pick up a few themes of what they want and remarkably you will find that while will disagree on many things they will agree that they want the world to see what is happening in Iran and that those protests were not planned as anything other than vigils.

Mon, 2020-01-13 14:52

#509

Sean in Ottawa

Actually Kropotkin you are right. I am sorry - it is not right that I put labels on you that you so obviously demonstrate on your own.

You know that I am angry with you on this board generally but perhaps you have gleaned by now that I am breathing the same air as at least one Iranian in the same house and am less likely to accept your ignorant pontificating about the world on this topic as I deal with the pain. Maybe try to ground yourself a little more or engage with me a little less on this topic. The tolerance for bullshit is extremely low right now. Lower than the usualy low tolerance I have for your shit.

Mon, 2020-01-13 15:21

#510

kropotkin1951

Sean please calm down. Your personal attacks because you don't like my world view are getting in the way of this discussion of an ongoing international crisis.

Mon, 2020-01-13 15:40

(Reply to #510) #511

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Sean please calm down. Your personal attacks because you don't like my world view are getting in the way of this discussion of an ongoing international crisis.

I could not care less about your world view. The problem is the offensive shit you write. And then when called out for writing garbage you retreat back to victim mode. It is old.

You like to speak about imperialism and then here you write about you knowing what Iranians need best and how everyone has to see this situation through your eyes even if that involves elaborate conspiracy theories.

Take some responsibility for what you write. When you insinuate things about people as you have the people protesting in Iran -- expect to be called out harshly when what you write is outragious -- and take it.

Mon, 2020-01-13 16:06

#512

NDPP

"Sometimes I can only stop and stare slack-jawed at all the extreme hate and vitriol that gets directed at anti-imperialists online. I mean, you'll get called all sorts of names, get called evil and a monster for advocating peace. PEACE! Really shows you the power of propaganda."

https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1211047131047288832

Mon, 2020-01-13 16:25

#513

NDPP

Iran Must Begin Acting Like A Normal Nation Says Totally Normal Nation

https://t.co/mVyaixMAZo

"We want Iran to simply behave like a normal nation,' Secretary of State Pompeo said in a press statement the other day. 'We believe that the sanctions we imposed today further that strategic objective. These would be the additional sanctions which have been expanded to include virtually the entire Iranian economy, deliberately targeting Iran's already sanction-starved populace, with the explicit goal of fomenting a civil war in that nation. Which is of course a perfectly normal thing to do, from a perfectly normal nation.

The US would be perfectly happy for Iran to begin acting like Israel: a nuclear-armed military outpost which constantly bombs adjacent nations, interferes in the US and other nations politics to shore up support, works toward the slow extermination of its indigenous population and fires upon protestors with live ammunition.

The US would be perfectly happy for Iran to being acting like Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand or the EU: obedient military intelligence assets who function as extra-American states when it comes to foreign policy and international affairs. That is what the US means by acting 'normal'. Not acting moral. Not acting healthy. Certainly not acting like the US. It means acting obedient, compliant and enslaved. Which is precisely what Iran is resisting."

'America is trying to starve Iran into submission. The risk is that it goads Iran into building a nuclear bomb.' - The Economist-

https://twitter.com/amalsaad_lb/status/1215372807900745729

"The 'risk' is Iran developing nuclear deterrence, not the US trying to starve 80 million Iranians into submission."

UK Ambassador Calls on Iran Govt To De-Escalate Conflict

https://youtu.be/7nWe849SCEU

Mon, 2020-01-13 21:25

#514

iyraste1313

Israeli Intelligence Was Involved in US Assassination of Top Iranian General – Reports

MIDDLE EAST

11:49 12.01.2020(updated 11:50 12.01.2020)Get short URL

by Oleg Burunov

The 3 January assassination of Iran Revolutionary Guards Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani exacerbated further the already tense relationship between Baghdad and Washington.

NBC News has cited unnamed sources as saying that Israel helped the US stage an operation that led to the killing of Qasem Soleimani, head of Iran’s elite Quds Force from the country’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC).

The sources claimed that Israel added to the January 3 operation by providing the Americans with key intelligence details on the matter.

The details helped confirm and verify intelligence from informants at a Syrian airport that Soleimani had been on a nighttime flight from Damascus to Baghdad, info which was used to tip off the CIA.

The New York Times, in turn, reported that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke to US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo ahead of Soleimani’s killing, and that the Jewish state likely became Washington’s only ally which was in the know about the issue.

In October, the Iranian news agency Tasnim cited the IRGC’s head of intelligence Hossein Taeb as saying that Israel and the West had collaborated to assassinate Soleimani in order to “trigger a religious war inside Iran”.

“Frustrated by their failure to upset security in Iran or to harm the IRGC military bases, the enemies had hatched an extensive plot to hit Maj.-Gen. Soleimani in his home province of Kerman,” Taeb claimed at the time.

Mon, 2020-01-13 21:37

(Reply to #514) #515

kropotkin1951

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Take some responsibility for what you write. When you insinuate things about people as you have the people protesting in Iran -- expect to be called out harshly when what you write is outragious [sic] -- and take it.

I did not insinuate anything. Stop reading the worst thing you can imagine a set of words could possibly mean into my posts.

Please stop the personal attacks. I have not done anything to deserve your vitriolic responses.

Mon, 2020-01-13 22:33

(Reply to #515) #516

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I did not insinuate anything. Stop reading the worst thing you can imagine a set of words could possibly mean into my posts.

Your post 507 and others does exactly that. Asking how I could think that these protests are not like what happened in Egypt?

Mon, 2020-01-13 23:36

#517

NDPP

Uncle Sam the Hit Man (podcast)

https://www.blackagendareport.com/uncle-sam-hit-man

"Mumia Abu Jamal, the nation's best known political prisoner, says the US is living up to its reputation as an international assassin wiht its hit on an Iranian general on Iraqi soil. 'America is more hated today than ever,' stated Abu Jamal, co-author of the multi-volume book, 'Murder, Incorporated."

The Real Reasons Behind War With Iran (and vid)

https://www.rt.com/shows/redacted-tonight-summary/478001-iran-soleimani-...

"Lee Camp dives into why the US wants war with Iran, how the media has helped, and what you can do to stop it."

TRNN: Who Profits When Iran and America Fight?

https://youtu.be/PNyEcVTDwI0

"We spoke to Code-Pink co-founder Medea Benjamin after Thursday's [US] War Powers resolution vote. Whose interests are driving the narrative around the conflict with Iran?":

'The lives of ordinary people are the ones that are most affected, and the US thinks that this is going to cause people to rise up and overthrow the government. And sure enough, there have been street protests...'

Mon, 2020-01-13 23:36

#518

kropotkin1951

Whatever Sean. If you don't like my posts please do not attack me personally. I have the right to post on this forum without being policed by you. If you think I have in anyway breached the guidelines of this forum then report me. Otherwise leave me alone.

Tue, 2020-01-14 00:42

(Reply to #518) #519

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Whatever Sean. If you don't like my posts please do not attack me personally. I have the right to post on this forum without being policed by you. If you think I have in anyway breached the guidelines of this forum then report me. Otherwise leave me alone.

As you know there is no such mechanism here. Your posts have been beyond the pale. If you do not want to be called out then you can say less offensive things. I think it is really humorous you saying I policed you.

There is a lot going on in Canada around the Iran thread -- a lot more than your damaged ego.

Tue, 2020-01-14 00:45

#520

Sean in Ottawa

Apparently the Iraq strike was authorized by Trump months ago and had nothing to do with future attacks but revenge for past ones (if you can even think his political benefit was not the prime motive).

It is clear from this that there is no shred of defence along the lines the administration was trying to mount about some immediate threat.

Tue, 2020-01-14 12:58

#521

iyraste1313

The Iranian military attacked American mercenaries in northeast Syria.

· Jan 11, 2020

Light bombs were fired near Conoco field in the eastern Deir Ezzor countryside after heavy gunfire from the Iranian militias in the same area.

7:07 AM - Jan 11, 2020 A few hours ago, Iranian military and pro-Iranian military units controlled by them launched a large-scale attack against American mercenaries in northeastern Syria. According to official figures, the attack was carried out using small arms, heavy machine guns, and even anti-tank systems.At the moment, the Avia.pro resource has unique video frames shot not far from the site of the attack on the positions of American mercenaries in the Konoko area. On them, you can see how American mercenaries launch lighting missiles to withstand attacks.

Light bombs were fired near Conoco field in the eastern Deir Ezzor countryside after heavy gunfire from the Iranian militias in the same area.

Information about the victims, victims and property damage is not commented, however, according to several sources, the attack on the positions of American mercenaries could be related to the recent airstrike on the positions of Iranian military and pro-Iranian forces in the same area.

Experts do not exclude that an attack by Iranian military units may lead to a new round of aggravation of the situation, however, given the fact that we are talking about mercenaries and not the US regular army, we should not expect any escalation of the situation.

Tue, 2020-01-14 14:41

(Reply to #521) #522

kropotkin1951

iyraste1313 wrote:

The Iranian military attacked American mercenaries in northeast Syria.

· Jan 11, 2020

Light bombs were fired near Conoco field in the eastern Deir Ezzor countryside after heavy gunfire from the Iranian militias in the same area.

7:07 AM - Jan 11, 2020 A few hours ago, Iranian military and pro-Iranian military units controlled by them launched a large-scale attack against American mercenaries in northeastern Syria. According to official figures, the attack was carried out using small arms, heavy machine guns, and even anti-tank systems.At the moment, the Avia.pro resource has unique video frames shot not far from the site of the attack on the positions of American mercenaries in the Konoko area. On them, you can see how American mercenaries launch lighting missiles to withstand attacks.

Light bombs were fired near Conoco field in the eastern Deir Ezzor countryside after heavy gunfire from the Iranian militias in the same area.

Information about the victims, victims and property damage is not commented, however, according to several sources, the attack on the positions of American mercenaries could be related to the recent airstrike on the positions of Iranian military and pro-Iranian forces in the same area.

Experts do not exclude that an attack by Iranian military units may lead to a new round of aggravation of the situation, however, given the fact that we are talking about mercenaries and not the US regular army, we should not expect any escalation of the situation.

This should be in the Syrian thread given it is about the ongoing battle for control of one of the richest gas fields in the world. No matter what it should also remind us that at the end of the day it is all about oil and gas, not religion or ideology or government structure. Without the resources the imperial nations would not be there.

Tue, 2020-01-14 19:28

#523

NDPP

Exclusive: Soleimani Killed To Stop Secret Saudi Deal

https://youtu.be/PICEliBoHQg

"Rick Sanchez discusses the recent history of the US Government lying in order to justify war. He tells us the real reason why Soleimani was assassinated and why the US may soon be at war with Iran..."

Harper Calls For Regime Change in Iran (and vid)

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/harper-speaks-out-on-iran-in-wake-of-dow...

"Former prime minister Stephen Harper said he thinks a 'change in the nature of the government' in Iran is needed in order for there to be peace in the Middle East - and he hopes the fallout from the recent plane crash sparks that change. 'I do believe we need to see a change in Iran if we're going to see peace in the Middle East.' Harper went on to say that while other countries in the Middle East are 'increasingly trying to work together,' [eg Israel/Saudi?] Iran is the one actor that isn't participating..."

Trump Team Ties to MEK Go Beyond Giuliani and Bolton

https://youtu.be/85pQw1mpiNw

"Why would Trump want to drop the Iran nuclear deal and renew tough sanctions? The Iranian dissident group MEK wants regime change too..."

Tue, 2020-01-14 21:13

#524

NDPP

NP: 'It's Time To Take On State Sponsored Terror'

https://youtu.be/qhN6H35HSm0

"After the death of General Soleimani, Canada was the only nation in the world news where the Iranian community showed its approval of American actions. Canada has a very large and successful Iranian diaspora. It knows Soleimani was a man responsible for countless American deaths...State terrorism must be defeated."

Tue, 2020-01-14 22:33

(Reply to #524) #525

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

NP: 'It's Time To Take On State Sponsored Terror'

https://youtu.be/qhN6H35HSm0

"After the death of General Soleimani, Canada was the only nation in the world news where the Iranian community showed its approval of American actions. Canada has a very large and successful Iranian diaspora. It knows Soleimani was a man responsible for countless American deaths...State terrorism must be defeated."

That is odd: didn't we see fist-fights in the Iranian community between those happy he was dead calling him a child killer and those angry about his death? Seems to me the community here was quite split on this. The downing of the plane has changed the dynamics and reation further.

I posted explanations about the diversity of the Iranian community opinions up thread.

Tue, 2020-01-14 23:16

(Reply to #525) #526

kropotkin1951

NDPP wrote:

NP: 'It's Time To Take On State Sponsored Terror'

https://youtu.be/qhN6H35HSm0

"After the death of General Soleimani, Canada was the only nation in the world news where the Iranian community showed its approval of American actions. Canada has a very large and successful Iranian diaspora. It knows Soleimani was a man responsible for countless American deaths...State terrorism must be defeated."

If that piece didn't have the NP logo I would have thought it was a satire on war mongering news reports. IMO it is terrorism by NATO states operating in the Middle East that has to be stopped. Canada out of NATO operations now.

Tue, 2020-01-14 23:53

(Reply to #526) #527

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

NDPP wrote:

NP: 'It's Time To Take On State Sponsored Terror'

https://youtu.be/qhN6H35HSm0

"After the death of General Soleimani, Canada was the only nation in the world news where the Iranian community showed its approval of American actions. Canada has a very large and successful Iranian diaspora. It knows Soleimani was a man responsible for countless American deaths...State terrorism must be defeated."

If that piece didn't have the NP logo I would have thought it was a satire on war mongering news reports. IMO it is terrorism by NATO states operating in the Middle East that has to be stopped. Canada out of NATO operations now.

Again -- the quote posted in this thread is false.

The Iranian community is not supportive uniformly of either side.

I hope people here can understand one basic thing. The people of this community are being intimidated and there is not one single opinion. Their loyalties are not to either the US or Iran. Many are here to escape such a choice. Some are bravely speaking out taking risks on both sides.

Many are intimidated, as I said before, into not showing their politics due to fear of dividing their community in Canada and their social circle in particular. Some may be intimidated from showing support for the Iranian Regime knowing it is unpopular in Canada (I have seen no examples of this but imagine it is possible). Some are intimidated from showing support to the US for fear of what could happen to them if they return to Iran for a visit (this I know). Many do not want to say anything for fear that this will support either the US or the Iranian government when they do not want to support either and hate both (this I know). Like I said before there is a broad range of opinions and an equally broad range of reasons to be careful speaking out.

Some people say that part of the dynamic of the international Iranian community is that they cannot decide on what the replacement is. This implies no support for whatever the Americans want to do with a potential Regime change and no support for the government either.

Many Iranians truly believe that their government is unbelievably bad and that if the US is able to create a Regime change it will get even worse. (Out of the pot into the fire.)

One of the stark realities of the opposition movement in Iran is that it has no credible leader or structure. Don't believe the Americans when they tell you that the Shah pretender has significant support in Iran. Yes, Iranians do look back on those days as better days than they have now but most do not want a king -- and not an American one.

The situation appears to be that the opposition in Iran is unlike opposition in most countries -- it lacks support from outside becuase it lacks leadership from inside. Nobody wants that job either - cannot buy life insurance at any price.

I am sure many outside forces for good and for ill would support any movement from inside that showed leadership. Some would try to manipulate it.

Many countries have long wanted pieces of Iran. Consider this - the Caspian was divided 50-50 between the Soviet Union and Iran. The leadership of Iran has allowed its stake to be mostly given to the former Soviet Republics having lost almost all of it. The Saudi regime would take whatever they could if they could. You can be sure Iraq and the US would love to carve off the oil-rich south-west (which is cut off geographically from the rest of the country by mountains. Lots of poeple ready to interfere and to influence but nobody to influence.

In Hong Kong you can debate the leadership. There is an organic movement and there is local leadership and there is international support and there is international interference. This is largely absent in Iran. There is a parade of actors outside waiting for the opportunity to interfere and no movement inside to use for that purpose. This is why you see these protest come and go so quickly.

There are also people saying that the government organizes protest, and makes them violent (burning banks) in order to see who participates to arrest them or watch them and to make the movements look bad and avoid a cohesive movement from forming. They call this vaccine. I cannot say for sure if this is paranoia or truth. The pattern described is the real thing happens in the centre like these did by the University in the middle where it is dangerous to the leadership. They tell me the fake protest are all outside the main centres where they can be controlled. I repeat: I do not know if this dynamic is real. I do know many opposition people believe it is.

Many Iranians are depressed when they think about their country. They understand (although some want to believe the opposite) that the US is not on their side. The Trump comments about cultural site disabused a few of the idea that the US had their interest. There still is a desire by some to be optimistic. Many feel they have no idea where leadership could come, how it could avoid being crushed, and they see many countries (not just the US and its allies) wanting either to keep Iran down and hurting as it is now, to dismember it or to take it over.

Wed, 2020-01-15 03:22

#528

NDPP

Sky News: Jeremy Corbyn on US Suleimani Assassination (and vid)

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1214628074748305410

"...To assassinate an official of a foreign government in a third country, in this case Iraq, is illegal under any law. The only way forward, if we believe in international law, is to abide by international law. This is a provocative act which has made the whole world a much more dangerous place..."

Trump's EU Poodles - Germany, Britain and France - Obey His Order To Kill the Nuclear Deal

https://t.co/NJgFQwBZOG

"...While the Europeans had said that they would continue to support the deal, they have succumbed to the threat of secondary sanctions the US said it would impose against them if they trade with Iran. As all payments between Iran and its trade partners are impeded by the sanctions, trade between Europe and Iran has come essentially to a halt.

The outcome here is %100 predictable. UN sanctions will snap back. Then the Trump administration will relaunch the 'nuclear Iran' propaganda campaign and will threaten Iran with war. The EU countries who failed to hold up the deal will now globally be perceived as the poodles they are..."

Wed, 2020-01-15 03:41

#529

Sean in Ottawa

President Rouhani speech today has some interesting points -- as did Zarif

1) Rouhani says Iran's actions outside the deal can all be reversed if Europe returns to the table and meets their agreement and resists the US. He says Iran will not renegotiate under sanctions and the EU is bowing to pressure from the US. He said today the US soldier is in danger and tomorrow it could be the European.

2) Zarif says that the demonstrations in the last few days are becuase the poeple were lied to. He says he and the President only learned the truth on Friday (still a day of lies persisted but you can imagine that after 2 days of lies one half of the government found out about them. Zari says the deal is not dead and Iran is interested in Diplomacy - just not with the US. The US he said through ignorance and arrogance is fuelling mayhem in the middle east.

3) Rouhani criticized the upcoming elections saying that you cannot have all candidates coming from the same faction (hardliners)

4) Rouhani said that the JCPOA was a good deal for all sides and that it brought good contracts to Iran -- he was defending it from critics within Iran

So here are some take-aways that people here should understand if they are working through what is going on in Iran.

This maximum pressure from the US is breaking the moderate factions of the Iranian government and they are falling out of power. This faction is represented by Zarif (foreign minister) and Rouhani (President). The hardliners are taking more power. The moderate side of government which is the elected side has been repeatedly blind-sided by the hardliners on one side and the US on the other.

More background: this moderate side does not have a great reputation but it is better than the hardliners. As the tension has increased from the US the list approved by the supreme leaders and revolutionary guard has had the moderates removed. This means that the election next month can only have one result: a defeat for the moderates whose candidates have been blocked and a victory for the hard line. Trump is directly responsible for this development.

As the moderates are out going (Rouhani is not up for election this year but would either be a lame duck with even less power than he has now or he could be impeached) they are struggling with the hardliners. If you believe what Zarif says - and there is no reason not to - the hardliners left half the government in the dark about the plane being downed and probably more. The parallel with the US where Trump is leaving congress in the dark is in many ways an echo.

As for the position of Iranians I have spoken to on the elections, the feelings seem to be mixed as usual. On the one hand things will get much worse. The President is elected by the people and when he is a moderate there is an inclination to at least try to do something for the people (not much most resources go to the Guard and the proxies).

With a hard liner there is less incentive to do anything at all to help the people. There are real fears things will imediately get worse within the country and with respect to managing the limited money. There are also speculations about possible changes to the structure of the republic, perhaps even doing away with the role of the President (keeping Supreme leader and PM and dumping the President).

This could have the effect of bringing to a head opposition and endangering the regime which some really hope can happen or it can just make things more miserable.

We do not need to accept all these people say at face value but this gives a bit of an indication into what is going on there. It is important not to recognize the Iranian government as a single cohesive entity working together. As we move closer to the election these splits are more clear. Trump's action definitely help the hand of the hard liners.

Wed, 2020-01-15 03:42

#530

Sean in Ottawa

In other news the man who recorded the latest video of the jet being hit by two misiles did so by accident. He has now been arrested and is likely in serious danger.

Wed, 2020-01-15 04:22

#531

NDPP

'Imminent Iranian Nukes': Israel

https://twitter.com/Zinvar/status/1217260301864796161

"According to various Israeli government predictions over the years, Iran was going to have a bomb by the mid-90s--or 1998, 1999, 2000, 2004, 2005 and finally 2010. More recent Israeli predictions have put that date at 2011 or 2014. Israel has been making this same estimation about imminent Iranian nukes for nearly 30 years."

While refusing any and all international inspection or monitoring of their own.

Wed, 2020-01-15 04:36

(Reply to #531) #532

NDPP

[quote=Sean in Ottawa]

In other news the man who recorded the latest video of the jet being hit by two misiles did so by accident. He has now been arrested and is likely in serious danger.

[quote=NDPP]

If so I sincerely hope his situation receives international scrutiny and support not shameful abandonment like Chelsea Manning or Julian Assange.

Thu, 2020-01-16 07:49

#533

NDPP

Days Before Europeans Warned Iran of Nuclear Deal Violations, Trump Secretly Threatened To Impose 25% Tariff on European Autos If They Didn't

https://twitter.com/dimitrilascaris/status/1217630233316208645

"EU states with Canada's support triggered a clause under the Iran nuclear deal which was designed to address Iranian cheating. But Iran didn't cheat. Days before the EU acted, Trump threatened EU states with tariffs if they didn't trigger the clause."

The US & the EU, Not Iran, Are in Violation

https://twitter.com/RealScottRitter/status/1217272735610691585

"It's almost as if none of the Democrats on stage have even read the JCPOA; let me introduce you to Articles 26 and 36, which empower Iran to forgo implementation of mandated restrictions in case of non-performance by party states. The US and the EU, not Iran, are in violation."

Thu, 2020-01-16 09:12

#534

NorthReport

Harper misquote shows why 'regime change' needed in some Canadian newsrooms

Stephen Harper did not advocate military intervention in Iran, or indeed any intervention. But that made for a better story

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/chris-selley-after-harper-misquote-regime-change-needed-in-some-canadian-newsrooms

Thu, 2020-01-16 10:53

#535

josh

Germany’s defense minister on Thursday confirmed a report that the United States was threatening to impose a 25% tariff on European car exports if it continues backing the Iran nuclear deal.

https://www.courthousenews.com/trump-threatens-germany-over-iran-nuclear-deal/

Fri, 2020-01-17 20:48

#536

NDPP

Latest on USA-Iran Confrontation & Canada's Military Role in Iraq

https://www.ceasefire.ca/latest-on-usa-iran-confrontation-and-canadas-mi...

"...Canada should revive the process of re-establishing diplomatic relations with Iran. 'There is no substitute for being on the ground. Canada has been blind about what has been happening in Iran - especially important these past few days - and we have our hands tied in dealing with this [downed airliner] tragedy. Canada should make it clear to NATO partners that the only appropriate role for the collective defence organization is one of counselling mutual restraint and providing diplomatic support for a negotiated solution to the current USA-Iran crisis, in full accordance with the UN Charter and International law, to which all NATO members are bound. Ensure access by the Iranian people to humanitarian goods..."

SABC News: Iran-US Tensions

https://youtu.be/NgV_NabOCCw

"Discussion with Prof Seyed Marandi, University of Tehran.

Fri, 2020-01-17 22:16

#537

NDPP

Trump vs Iran: What Now?

https://youtu.be/XCkNKYXOJIY

"The Intercept's Jeremy Scahill moderated a discussion on the unfolding crisis in front of a live audience. What can the rest of us - especially the left and anti-war movement - do to stop this dangerous conflict from escalating?"

Fri, 2020-01-17 23:49

#538

Sean in Ottawa

I agree about diplomatic relations -- generally I think you should have diplomatic relations with all countries. Especially the ones you ahve difficulty and disagreements with. Talking is better than the alternatives.

Sat, 2020-01-18 13:06

#539

NDPP

Engler: Canada's Dark History vis-a-vis Iran (Part 1)

https://dissidentvoice.org/2020/01/canadas-dark-history-vis-a-vis-iran/

"...Clearly during the period from 1950 - 1985, Canadian policy towards Iran was motivated by the interests of British then American empire and profit-making opportunities for Canadian business. Equally as evident, Ottawa exhibited little concern for Iranian human rights or democracy. As we shall see in part two, Canadian policy in recent years has sought to undermine Iran."

Sat, 2020-01-18 13:39

#540

NDPP

Canada's Media and Political Establishment Endorse Illegal Assasination of Iranian General

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/01/17/caso-j17.html

"...The breathtaking cynicism of such [Canadian] comments, reflected above all in their deliberate silence on the horrendous crimes of US imperialism and its allies in the Middle East over the past quarter century, can only be understood if one appreciates Canada's deep involvement in Washington's drive to establish unbridled domination over the world's most important oil exporting region...American imperialism, with able assistance from its Canadian ally, bears responsibility for millions of deaths and the destruction of entire societies, from Aghanistan to Iraq, Libya, Syria and Yemen.

The Canadian ruling class is preparing to join the US in a military assault on Iran should Washington's campaign of 'maximum pressure' on Tehran provoke all out war. Such a conflict would rapidly engulf the entire Mideast and risks dragging in the other great powers. The Trudeau government is already in the midst of a massive rearmanent program, buying new fleets of warships and implementing plans to hike military spending by more than 70% by 2026..."

Homes not bombs! Troops Out Now! No Blood For Oil!

Sun, 2020-01-19 11:21

#541

iyraste1313

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Pompeo Agrees to Probe Alleged Threats Against Envoy in Ukraine

Kudlow: Payroll Tax Cuts 'Not High on the List'

The high precision technology accounting for the astonishing accuracy of Iran’s missile strike on the US Ain Al Asad air base in Iraq on Jan. 8 came from Moscow, say Russian media quoting local military sources. They name the technology as the GLONASS global navigation system, which corresponds to the American GPS, and had the effect of reducing the Iranian missiles’ targeting error to just 10 meters.

The same sources report that the Iranians launched altogether 19 missiles against the Ain al Asad base n western Iraq, of which 17 struck dead center of their targets.

DEBKAfile’s military sources report that the accuracy of impact amazed US and Israel intelligence, which had not been aware of this Iranian capacity. Its significance is such that – whether provided by Russia or self-made – Iran’s short- and medium-range missiles can reach any point in the Middle East that is unprotected by effective anti-missile systems within a 700km radius.

Still defending Russia’s downing of the Ukrainian airliner, killing all 176 people aboard, hours after the Iranian attacks on US bases in Iraq, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov claimed there were “at least six F-35 fighters in the air in the Iranian border area at the time” when Iranian forces “were braced for some kind of US military retaliation.” Lavrov did not say whether the planes belonged to the US air force or Israel.... from Debka

Please! let´s put to restthe idea that Iran is in any way inferior in armaments to US/Israel. Note the last statement from Lavrov!

We can now expect a protracted war of secondary arms strikes, which of course we can expect Canadians to die!

Where is the political opposition in Canada? who will create it?

Sun, 2020-01-19 11:33

#542

NDPP

"Still defending Russia's downing of the Ukrainian airliner" I knew Russia was behind this!

Sun, 2020-01-19 11:55

#543

NDPP

Under US Pressure, Social Media Companies Censor Critical Content...

https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1218580138796908554

"Ahmed is one of dozens of Iranians whose accounts were suspended by the Corporate Thought Police at Twitter and Facebook because he has political views the US government doesn't like. Where's the outrage? This is blatant censorship of alternative views..."

But not this Western-backed MEK one or others like it...

Iran Democratic Association (IDA) Canada

https://twitter.com/IDA_Canada/status/1218195041094656000

"The countdown for the clerical regime has begun..."

Mon, 2020-01-20 15:24

#544

NDPP

Abby Martin on 'The Precipice of War' (and vid)

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1219334013795688450

"Originated from the giant psychopatic baby's twitter account'. - Journalist Abby Martin tells MOATS, Trump's warmongering is not over..."

Mon, 2020-01-20 16:07

(Reply to #544) #545

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

Abby Martin on 'The Precipice of War' (and vid)

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1219334013795688450

"Originated from the giant psychopatic baby's twitter account'. - Journalist Abby Martin tells MOATS, Trump's warmongering is not over..."

Trump told Republican doners last week that part of the reason for the attack was becuase Iranians called him and the US names. You cannot make this shit up.

Mon, 2020-01-20 19:07

#546

NDPP

'Truth From an Iranian' (and vid)

https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2020/01/18/iranian-american-viral-vid...

"Iranian-American viral video falsely claims Iran detests Soleimani..."

Tue, 2020-01-21 06:32

#547

NDPP

Engler: Trudeau Toes Imperial Line on Iran

https://yvesengler.com/2020/01/19/trudeau-toes-imperial-line-on-iran/

"While Israeli nationalists and Conservatives demand new measures towards Iran, the reality is ordinary Canadians will not benefit from war with the 18th most populous country in the world. The families of Iranian Canadians will not benefit. In response to Canada targeting it, Iran's Deputy Representative to the UN, Eshaq Al-e-Hebib, said in November 2019, 'how can a supporter of apartheid in Palestine pose as a human rights defender in Iran?'

The Liberals also legitimated the illegal US sanctions on Iran when they arrested Huawei's chief financial officer Meng Wanzhou at the Vancouver airport 13 months ago. The US claimed Meng's company defied its illegal sanctions against Iran. But between when the US judicial system sought her detention and the Trump administration requested Ottawa detain her, Meng travelled to six countries with US extradition treaties. Only Canada arrested her.

At the military level Ottawa also aligned with the US-Saudi-Israeli axis stoking conflict with Iran. An April 2016 Global Affairs memo authorizing Light Armoured Vehicle export permits to the House of Saud noted, 'Canada appreciates Saudi Arabia's role as a regional leader promoting regional stability, as well as countering the threat posed by Iranian regional expansionism.' The Liberals have empowered US-Israeli hawks hurtling towards a major conflict...progressive-minded peace-loving Canadians should reject Ottawa's aggressive, anti-Iranian policies."

Tue, 2020-01-21 11:38

(Reply to #547) #548

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

'Truth From an Iranian' (and vid)

https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2020/01/18/iranian-american-viral-vid...

"Iranian-American viral video falsely claims Iran detests Soleimani..."

Not quite true. Some do detest him. There is no single opinion. He is seen as the architect of the policy to build proxies which sucks resources out of Iran. He is also seen as a hero to others for the fight against ISIS. This is like claiming people love or hate Trump.

Few celebrated the strike on him but few Americans would celebrate a strike on Trump (Oh Iran do not make him a martyr).

Don't believe anyone who suggests Iran is not divided.

Thu, 2020-01-23 16:31

#549

NDPP

Holocaust Forum: Netanyahu Urges World To Unite To Confront Iran

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51219097

"Israel's prime minister has vowed that 'there will never be another Holocaust' in a speech at a forum in Jerusalem marking the 75th anniversary of the liberation of the Auschwitz death camp. Benjamin Netanyahu also called on the international community to 'join the vital effort of confronting Iran.' 'We have yet to see a unified and resolute stance against the most anti-Semitic regime on the planet,' he said. Dozens of world leaders attended the event at Yad Vashem remembrance centre. The Fifth World Holocaust Forum is the largest diplomatic event in Israel's history..."

Thu, 2020-01-23 23:47

#550

NDPP

Toronto Job Applicant Says Recruiter Told Him Amazon Isn't Hiring Iranians

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/toronto-job-applicant-says-recruiter-told-...

"We are being instructed not to hire any Iranians..."

Fri, 2020-01-24 12:14

#551

NDPP

This could go several places, I'll put it here because Iran could easily become the flashpoint of a nuclear armageddon. Don't forget to plan on attending an antiwar rally near you Saturday. It's important.

'The Most Dangerous Situation That Humanity Has Ever Faced': Doomsday Clock Now 100 Seconds To Midnight

https://go.shr.lc/2vht8MA

"Citing the worsening nuclear threat and inaction on the climate crisis, scientists issue a historic warning about the risk of global conflagration..."

Iran 3

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