Coronavirus: What Canadians Need To Know
https://www.macleans.ca/society/health/coronavirus-what-canadians-need-t...
"We have updates, and answers to key questions, as the discovery of the first case in North America adds to fears of a global outbreak..."
Issues Pages:
Thanks for this.....from MacLeans (sic!).....
What can you do to avoid it?
There is currently no vaccine available to protect you against human coronavirus infection, and antibiotics don’t work against viruses.....
...This is it? wheteher there are or not anti viral vaccines? Which do not work!
I posted the Macleans article because it was a short, simple introduction to something I knew nothing about. If you find something more comprehensive please feel free to post it. With an url too if possible.
There are good reasons to be concerned.
China is an incubator or rare viruses. Here are the reasons:
1) very long migratory bird paths of birds that carry and can transmit virus to farm animals
2) A age old practice of people living with close proximity to animals.
3) Large dense population that moves consistently
As you can see #2 and 3 is extremely common in many parts of the world. The critical difference is these bird paths. I have heard that the particular breeds of birds on these paths has close enough genetics to the farm animals.
This can happen elsewhere in the world but the lottery keeps coming to the same place with the most metaphorical tickets in volumes of birds, animals and humans.
On this, you can see that the cause is practically impossible to prevent. And if the migration paths changed it would only bring the problem somewhere else as the entire region is densely populated.
With air travel and a rising middle class in China the ability to contain this is more difficult than ever.
Antibiotics do not work on viruses as we all know.
Mutations are common and it is a lottery as to how deadly: extremely deadly and the virus dies out, mild and the impact is low. In-between and you have a pandemic where the virus lasts long enough to spread but does carry a high death toll. Each outbreak has these characteristics measured.
Add to this relatively poor global cooperation and impoverished international agencies and you have a recipe for trouble.
At this moment the new year is approaching and people will travel. Not good.
'This Time I'm Scared': SARS Virologist Warns Wuhan Virus Far Worse, As China Locks Down Second City
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-this-time-im-scared-sars-v...
"The virus that has infected hundreds in China shows signs of being far worse than SARS, the pandemic that killed nearly 800 people 17 years ago, a prominent virologist has warned after traveling to Wuhan, where the new coronavirus first began to spread..."
An article out today - not sure where I saw it questions travel bans saying they only slow but do not prevent transmission and do not mitigate the end result. They do take huge resources from treatment.
Here are some facts about an important story, enough conjecture about migrating birds without any links or quotes.
Despite some questions about the efficacy of quarantine measures the Chinese government is currently engaging in the largest ever travel ban. Given that the lunar New Year is fast approaching this level of quarantine will be fascinating to watch unfold.
Excellent information, thanks.
For some ____ who posts shit conjectures but wants links from others. Any guesses on whether he is being a hypocrite or intends to live by this standard for himself????
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/immunology-and-microbiology/highly-pathogenic-avian-influenza-virus
https://www.ecologyandsociety.org/vol13/iss2/art15/
https://www.computer.org/csdl/magazine/ex/2014/04/mex2014040010/13rRUB6SpQc
https://phys.org/news/2018-06-migrating-birds-flu-bonanza-scientists.html
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-migration-routes-of-migrant-birds-in-all-the-world-There-are-eight-migratory-routes_fig19_262016876
https://www.usgs.gov/centers/asc/science/bird-migration-and-influenza?qt-science_center_objects=0#qt-science_center_objects
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fevo.2018.00206/full
https://www.pnas.org/content/112/1/172
Great information that is all outdated. Your newest source is 2018. I don't know what your problem is I just posted a good quote that was fully cited and sourced and current to today not years ago.
You really should find another hobby. I posted my comments before the last couple days news. You wanted me to prove that I did not make it up - that it was a fact. I cannot post stuff from today as proof of what I was thinking previously.
Is there anything you can do other than pick fights?
I'm sorry Sean but in the Iran threads you insisted that people should not make any kind of speculation despite the fact that their speculation was about things that had already occurred in similar but not exactly the same circumstances. I thought that was an absurd idea because I come here to chat about current events in the international sphere and speculation is part of the fun and process.
Then you post speculation about a deadly virus that is similar but in fact not the same as the ones you have read about and your information turned out to false and misleading in this instance but of course not in instances of "avian" flu unlike the coronavirus that has currently broken out in China.
Please stop trying to control the debate and I promise to stop mocking your inconsistencies.
Kropotkin has posted the best information in this thread. That isn't picking a fight.
Yes the thing he posted was useful. It did not require him to demand that the comment I made needed to be sourced since there are many sources to that information and what I had said was more appicable to the ongoing issue of viruses coming from China. My information was general comment from before the infomration he came up with was available. This information came later when the news got specific.
My comment was fair comment of a general nature realted to these outbreaks but attacked by him as is his habit. I did not go back and forth across this board trying to needle him today to pick a fight. That is his other contribution to the board. He could have put up his post of infomration and left it at that.
4) Melting glaciers in the Tibetan mountains possibly releasing viruses that have been stored for millenia
Interesting. What would make this region different than others like it?
I had read something like this about parts of Greenland and viruses that were not truly ancient but from 1000 years ago. I also wonder what risk Canada and Russia have considering that both have the issue of trapped CO2 from decaying matter (I assume mostly plant matter?).
I wish the article spoke to whether these viruses were stored from human activity or animal activity. How did these get into the glacier?
Now it seems that people are considering that the issue of what people eat in China is central to the risk this time. Do you think this is fair or an attempt to smear China? The material speaking about viruses passed through bats being eaten, is the proof overwhelming?
All that said, it is true with the issues I raised that China has considerable experience with pathogens. Even if this one is not from bird migration, you would think the Chinese ought to have enough skill from previous outbreaks to help in this one.
BTW I used to know people from Wuhan. I cannot help but think about its geographical location downstream from the Three Gorges dam. This dam, if anything went wrong is just so large that it would be catastrophic for Wuhan. This is one of those places I would not want to live even though there are many places world wide where there is this background risk of catastrophe. Like major earthquake zones.
Other Chinese cities are reacting to the fact that many people left prior to the travel ban:
Hong Kong has turned two holiday camps, including a former military barracks, into quarantine zones for people who may have come into contact with carriers of the Wuhan virus, officials announced yesterday.
Hong Kong was of course one of the worst hit cities during the SARS outbreak.
http://www.theindependentbd.com/post/233633
Also China is now quarantining more cities: Huanggang, Ezhou, and Chiba
https://futurism.com/neoscope/google-3d-map-fruit-fly-brain
I am skeptical of the point that we see many medical experts making: they say that quarantine does not reduce an outbreak and that it is unhelpful only scaring residents. To this I have three thoughts but not any links or science to back this up.
First -- wouldn't people be scared just as much wihtout the quarantine in China after SARs?
Second -- wouldn't some fear help reduce travel and work to delay the virus substantively?
Third -- those critical of quarantine say that it only delays things. If little is known about an outbreak and they need time to study it -- wouldn't a delay actually offer a theraputic benefit to many people?
I am wondering if there is not a bias against the Chinese decision as a part of a confirmation bias: since we cannot in our countries quarantine like that (for legal reason - they say you can only do that in a country with more central control) -- could it be that there is a desire to say well we would not want to do it anyway?
China is a country as I said above that has a lot of experience with outbreaks. I doubt they would undertake quarantine unless they had a fairly sound scientific basis for it. I am thinking that it buying time may be the reason.
Another point: if they are still experimenting with treatment -- these experiments are harder to rerpoduce across an entire country. If they can delay it long enough to arrive at the correct treatment then they would be better able to roll it out everywhere. This does not eman that they are not aware that there will not be cases anywhere but that they expect to reduce the volume of them keeping the initial cases more localized than they would be without a quarantine.
I am not a scientist but I find that there is some unanswered obvious logic to a benefit in slowing the spread if quarantine will do that (even if it does nothing else)
WHO: Press Conference on Emergency Committee Meeting on New Coronavirus (and vid)
https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1220410701354807297
Four 'generations' of spread seen with virus in China alarming experts
https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1220481782866489351
"Emerging data is suggestive of sustained human-to-human spread of the virus.."
Both of these twitter feeds should prove to be good sources of information on further developments.
And another excellent updating feed..
https://twitter.com/hashtag/nCoV2019?src=hashtag_click
26 Dead, 10 cities shutdown now
The New Coronavirus: Symptoms, Prevention and What to do if you're Infected
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/novel-coronavirus-symptoms-1.5438137
"So far, there have been no confirmed cases of the new coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in Canada, but Canadian public health agencies say they have been making preparations for any potential case or outbreak. Here are some basic facts about the virus, its symptoms, prevention, and what to do if you believe you are infected..."
Only One Lab in China Can Safely Handle The New Coronavirus
https://www.livescience.com/china-lab-meets-biosafety-levels-new-coronav...
"As an escalating outbreak unfolds in China, only one lab in the country meets the required biosafety standards needed to study the new disease..."
I read this morning a report that contradicts this and makes the decision not to decare a global emergency a big problem.
This article you posted is where most of the media have been. It also reflects the national border tests -- temperature tests to see who has fever.
New reports have come out saying that it is at least at time without symptoms and people infected and carrying the disease may have no fever or any way of knowing they have it.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/01/24/coronavirus-infections-no-symptoms-lancet-studies/
this means that testing is not a means to prevent the disease -- only isolation. However, it is very possible that we are well past the time when isolation or even the tracing of cases is possible.
Other reports show this disease with a moderate death rate. A disease with a lower death rate and that can present without symptoms is far more dangerous in the long term as it can spread while a higher death rate may restrict much of the spreading.
NDPP -- are you finding any stories on this now?
Also there are many reports of the Chinese systems being overwhelmed. China is a big country with a great deal of resources and experience. However, this is not the kind of situation a country should be fighting by itself. The world should be moving resources to combat this. I am not sure how much of this is being done without a global declaration. I thin the concern about asympomatic transmission should be enough along with several countries detecting cases. The US says they are examining dozens of potential cases with at least two confirmed (last I looked).
In Canada, I am not sure that our front line healthworkers have the support from their provincial governments to be ready. I suspect that is not the case.
Here is the Chinese official state media viewpoint about international cooperation. It seems from the clip played of the WHO meeting they were in favour of a global pandemic designation. In the meantime they seem capable of having proper diplomatic relations with European leaders over this is global problem. What the story doesn't mention is any contact between China and the other Asian countries where cases have been reported.
Any information I have on this developing story I have and will post. I recommend the twitter feeds posted upthread for those that wish to keep current on the disease's progression etc.
It does not look like any of the scientists in the world were prepared for asympotomatic presentation.
The Chinese clearly have a problem of a scale bigger than one country should handle and the WHO organization not calling this a global emergency I think is a mistake. WHO declaration has resources attached to it. These resources ought to be offered to China.
there have been accusations of a coverup here. There is no proof I have seen for this other than the rapid escalation. There is little reason not to think that this is exactly as the Chinese have said something that has grown very big very fast.
Perfect timing. Just look at what the old CBC MotherCorp has chosen to release just now...
Chinese Researcher Escorted From Infectious Disease Lab Amid RCMP Investigation
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/chinese-researcher-escorted-from...
"...Dr Xiangguo Qiu, her husband Keding Cheng and an unknown number of her students from China were removed from Canada's only level-4 lab on July 5, CBC News has learned. A Level 4 virology facility is a lab equipped to work with the most serious and deadly human and animal diseases. That makes the Arlington Street lab one of only a handful in North America capable of handling pathogens requiring highest level of containment, such as Ebola. Security access for the couple and the Chinese students was revoked, according to sources who work at the lab and do not want to be identified because they fear consequences for speaking out..."
Watch the already heightened and politically weaponized Sinophobia soar. Take that Brand China!
CBC News · Posted: Jul 14, 2019 3:50 PM CT | Last Updated: July 14, 2019
Didn't notice the date because it was on the cbc front page. ..
PS First confirmed case in Toronto.
Canada Announces 'Presumptive' 1st Case of Deadly Coronavirus in Toronto
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/canada-1st-case-coronavirus-toron...
"Public health officials officially announce first diagnosed case at Toronto's Sunnybrook Hospital..."
The Coronavirus
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/01/the-coronavirus-no-need-to-panic.h...
"No need to panic..."
The Coronavirus Is Already Politically Fraught
What to know about the virus that’s spun China and WHO into a frenzy.
https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2020/01/24/Coronavirus-Politically-Fraught-China-WHO-Frenzy/
Hong Kong Bars Hubei Residents From Entering City As Coronavirus Fears Intensify
https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1221510271254044672
"Masked Hong Kong rioters show solidarity with the Coronavirus by setting fire to a building authorities planned to use as a quarantine. The US-backed 'pro-democracy' movement continues to show its true colors."
A person who returned from Wuhan to the UK went to a doctor in the UK and was asked if he had the sniffles and has still not been tested. There are more and more worries that govenrments despite their assurances are not dealing with this properly.
'Holy shit. In Australia We'd Still Be Trying to Get Our PM Back From His Holiday.'
https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1221586416825585666
In response to the coronavirus epidemic, China has:
Could the US have mobilized its resources in such a way?
Perhaps the thread title could read 'What everyone needs to know', eh!
Dr Peter Lin was interviewed on CBC radio today about coronavirus - worth liastening to.
Which countries have confirmed cases of new coronavirus?
People in more than 10 countries, mostly in Asia, have been diagnosed with the virus, which originated in Wuhan, China.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TZ_phVL1vfC0P9b_RDH9ymdLRnk0lrrJ/view
Humber River Hospital Chief of Staff Dr Michael Gardom answers your questions on coronvirus in a special call-in on Metro Morning (audio)
https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio/1-39-metro-morning/clip/15757518-me...
Event 201: Pandemic Exercise (Oct 18, 2019)
https://youtu.be/LBuP40H4Tko
"Event 201 is a pandemic tabletop exercise hosted by the John Hopkins Center for Health Security in participation with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation on Oct 18, 2019 in New York, NY. The exercise illustrated the pandemic preparedness efforts..."
Many reports related to the mayor of Wuhan offering to resign/being under pressure to do so / admitting mistakes and delays reporting. Other news that has been circulating are models that indicate that this may have been going on as early as October. People who wanted to report it publicly were arrested. The Chinese government admitted the problem officially at the end of December when many are saying it is too late. In other news a state media source is being accused in China of publishing a picture of the hospital that was actually a real estate listing of an apartment block.
Certainly it is difficult to know which of all this is true given biases against China however much of this originates within China itself. No doubt it will be used and coloured in the Western media but it appears as if there are good reasons to think there is cause to citicize Chinese government action as well.
Meanwhile, there are many reports that Western governments, as I said early, are mishandling this. A doctor who was in Wuhan cannot get himself tested in the UK due to incompetence it seems on the part of authorities there, notices were provided to passengers in the UK that were not translated to Chinese. Canada had no screening at airports long after they knew. Governments world over appear to be minimizing the danger and offering false assurances.
The WHO is being accused of either being intimidated by China (directly or indirectly depending on who you hear from) or so slow that any declaration of a global emergency will come far too late.
This virus apparently now, multiple reports say, transmits from people without symptoms.
Every country in the world appears unprepared and to be pretending they are able to deal with this threat. None can offer any mechanism other than what is being discredited for this outbreatk (temperature screening). It is possible that Canada is not screening becuase they know they can't and simply telling people all will be okay.
Also there are reports questioning the source of the virus. Some site (I have not seen any credible reports including evidence) are claiming a research accident. Others that it may have a completely different source. Everyone is just guessing now given apparent proof that this virus dates back before any of the patient zero assumptions and a large number of people in the initial group had no connection the the market deemed earlier as the cause. The assumption of animals (snakes or whatever) are also guesses as they really do not know.
At the end of the day, it seems that the Chinese government may not have been as up front and as claimed and may not be handling this as well as some people want to believe. Some of these stories about fast response and planning may be concealing much longer timelines. At the same time, there is no reason to have any more faith in either the honesty and competence of any government in the world.
As usual when shit happens that governments cannot deal with the reaction is to lie and this is universal and beyond politics or systems of governments. If such a calamity happened in Canada there is no indication that it would be better managed here: in fact divisions and politics between jurisdictions (provincial vs each other and vs feds) might mean that it would be handled worse. I do not think we are being told the truth either.
So good luck everyone. Pelase do not believe any delusion that there is any govenrment on your side, doing the right thing, or being honest. They are managing their interests first and you second. All of them.
this should not be a political football here where people compete for loyalty to one government, country or type of government pretending that they really are better. Truth is they are different but probably equally unprepared.
China is no more honest than here. It does tend to big gestures and plans but there is little indication that they are all that much more reliable than the crap we have here.
The Chinese government is clearly desperate and is managing this politically first to manage opinion. And do not think for a second that the response from here is much different. Politics will come first.
Panic Over Coronavirus is 'Very Human' But Experts Say The Risk is Low
https://globalnews.ca/news/6466587/coronavirus-risk-reaction/
"Dr Theresa Tam, Canada's chief public health officer, said person-to-person transmission has been reported on close contact only. However fear and misinformation continue to spread. Pierre Talbot maintains that the individual risk for Canadians remains quite low. The public reaction to the coronavirus is 'far from' the relative risk, Talbot said. 'I think the epidemic will die out in the next few weeks..."
Coronavirus Symptoms, Diagnosis, Treatment & Vaccine Status
https://youtu.be/UCG3xqtcL3c
Real-time Updates on Coronavirus Outbreak
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1177737.shtml
"Coronavirus virus updates..."
Some epidemiologists speculating 100,000 people may have it in China and there is no chance of containment there.
I see no reason to be trusting authorities here or there with their assurances.
You may have a point
CBC interviewed an Ontario clinic doctor today who stated Ontario Health was not providing clinics with the instructions they require and he stated that it appeared to be a repeat of the confusion that occurred with Sars a few years ago
This clearly shows a failure of the Chinese government. Those authoritarians can't be trusted, hell they have even messed up Canada's response, again.
You are are really working hard to pick fights. I hope they are worth all the effort you are putting in.
Oh krop please stop with your obsessive nonsense
Sorry I do not have the time to unpack the paragraph after paragraph of opinion that Sean posted claiming numerous sources without citing a single fucking one. You agreed with him so I felt free with commenting on your post. I am ignoring him but if you agree with something he posts I will comment.
GTA private schools issue warning after parents say they were on same flight as coronavirus patient
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/gta-private-schools-issue-warning-after-parents-say-they-were-on-same-flight-as-coronavirus-patient-1.4785565
Well said!
As coronavirus spreads, anti-China sentiment must give way to a global effort to contain the disease
https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3047775/coronavirus-spreads-anti-china-sentiment-must-give-way-global
This is seems like a good news story. The best way to beat an epidemic is by citizens themselves being smart and self quarantining and not believing that a government is completely responsible for anything. I think that for people in TO the SARS epidemic has really taught them some basics about public health and hopefully it will take the R0 factor below 1.
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