Trade wars and deals

eta:

..after watching this video my assesment is that it spent very little time on alternatives. most of the time was spent on explaining the current deals. 

Beyond NAFTA and CUSMA: Democracy Not Corporatocracy

The Canada-United States-Mexico Agreement (CUSMA) falls short of any real alternative, rather it follows a long line of neoliberal trade agreements that have little to do with trade and everything to do with facilitating profit generation for multinational corporations.

We discuss the trade agenda and the current political context in Mexico and Canada as well explore alternative forms of trade and build North-South cooperation.

Moderated by Viviana Patroni. Presentations by:

• Eladio Abuniz: National Coordinator of the Authentic Labor Front. Representative in the External Affairs Commission of the National Workers Union and workers in the hospitality and rubber sector.
• Anna Zalik: Associate Professor in the Faculty of Environmental Studies at York University where she teaches in the area of global environmental politics and critical development studies. Her research examines and critiques the political ecology and political economy of industrial extraction.
• Sam Gindin: Former research director of the Canadian Auto Workers from 1974-2000. Adjunct professor at York University in Toronto. Co-author of The Making of Global Capitalism (Verso).

Co-sponsored by: Global Labour Research Centre (GLRC), Social Justice Fund (PSAC), United Steelworkers, OSSTF, Common Frontiers, Socialist Project. Recorded in Toronto, 25 September 2019.

NDPP wrote:

Johnson Will Defy US And Allow Use of Huawei Says Top Security Adviser

https://t.co/ibrlnw5E82

Obviously some US vassals are more subservient than others on this matter.

That is unkind. Some are more dependent and vulnerable. Don't think that the UK will be able to resist for long.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Canada is not a victim it is an imperial colony of the US empire. Our mining companies kill indigenous people around the globe, our engineering companies are the most corrupt in the world according to the UN and our banks are the main drivers of the tar sands and pipeline expansions. Canada's elite is back to Ready Aye Ready when it comes to pleasing the US oligarchy.

I think what you are saying is wrong. It lets Canada off the hook suggesting that its cooperation is due to dominance rather than its own intent. Canada in some of these areas is not a bit player and not dragged along as a depdency but is a fully aware and willing participant. There is no evidence whatsoever that Canada's position would be any different than it is on most of this if Canada were equal in size and weight as the US. Perhaps we should not be so willing to excuse the intention and direction that comes from Canada in these matters. The treatment of Indigenous peoples should expose Canada as the US is not interfering in a significant way to make this happen.

The vassel state allegation about Canada may be intented as a deserved insult but it also a false excuse for a country that can do better. There is no jackboot on our necks making us do these things. Our participation and even our proximity to US interests was a decision made by Canadians and Canada must be responsible for it.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Did you even read my post Sean? I don't know why you want to immediately try and distort the simple post I wrote. Canada is responsible for its crimes WTF else could you have gotten from my post.

As I said explaining the relationship in terms like vassel state and colony suggests more power over Canada than exists and therefore less control and direction from inside Canada.

I get you say Canada is responsible. I disagree with the extent of outside control you allege and have argued that this means even greater responsibility lies in Canada that you acknowledge. I stand by the logic that if Canada is more independent than you suggest it is therefore more responsible. It is not that complex an argument.

Similarly, I also suggest that putting Canada rhetorically in the same category as colonies who have been forced to participate without any independence (Consider the 20th century) really minimizes the responsibility of this country just as seen in reverse your suggestions suggest greater responsibility on actual colonies of the 20th century than I beleive is fair.

I am objecting to your extreme characterizations and your extreme analysis as I sometimes do.

Canada is more independent than you suggest and more of a willing partner than a colony and in some cases takes a lead role in its participation outside Canada.

I see no reason for you to be particularly upset by this analysis other than the fact you do not like being quesitonned by those who have a different take on things than you do.

Kropotkin:

In your post to which Sean was responding, you said that our "mining companies are killing indiginous people around the world." I'm pretty sure the reason that they do that is because it's good for their own bottom line, not because they are saying Ready Aye Ready to Washington.

Now yes, the countries where the mining companies are doing this are probably ones in which there has already been a significant degree of western penetration, usually led by the USA. But that's not the same thing as saying that the mining companies need American prompting to do the things they do, after the initial western penetration has taken place.

Kropotkin,

I approach all content posts the same way -- I read the content and reply with an answer on the content.

With you it does not end there becuase you object to the idea that anyone disagrees with you and post some shit like you did here. I lost patience with this arrogant tactic becuase of the many posts you have put up like this in the past.

You may not have noticed this but you do not ever debate on what someone says. You either come back with some hypocritical bullshit attacking them for not being pure enough, some what-aboutism, or  for having the gaul to disagree with you. Just like here. 

It always starts with a normal post from me that disagrees with something you said. But a normal debate with you is always impossible becuase you move the territory of the disagreement onto somethign else - like this.

This allows you either to avoid being criticised or to blame other poeple (often me as I have no patience for you left) for the conversation going exactly where you drove it.

I took issues with your suggestion that Canada is guilty of allowing ourselves to be controlled by the US to do their bidding becuase I believe Canada has agency in this beyond aggreement with the US. You refused to engage with this theory -- instead you attack me for disagreeing and then later for the conversation being unpleasant. I know you think you are perfect but why not let the disagreement proceed on the content of the subject and not drive it to the personal in the way you always do so that you can maryr yourself when the person finally blows up and asks you to fuck yourself?

You seem so secure that your posts are perfect and nobody could take issue with them that you think my problem is just with you. I can't stand you becuase of exchanges like every damn one we have. But my reaction is to the content first and then the fighting match because of the garbage you produce after. I read, understood your post, objected to it, explained my objection and have had to argue that my explanation is valid ever since without you saying anything about what my objection actually was. 

This is why we eventually get down to me insulting you -- you ensure that you disagree and respond to a post on every level but what the post actually says.

Sean wrote:

They will not punish us if we behave better on the world stage in most cases.

I could imagine numerous situations where an examination of the historical record would turn up transcripts in which Canadian politicians said "Well, we really don't wanna do this, but with all this pressure from Washington coming in, I guess we'd better do it anyway."

I'm having a hard time imagining such transcripts turning up in the investigation of a mining company, for example. I'm pretty sure that when they, for example, fly their Canadian workers safely into a work site, while allowing the local staff to trudge through a dangerous war zone, it's not because Uncle Sam is pressuring them to cutting back on workplace safety. The pressure is more likely coming from their own accountant.  

Sean in response to your last three pages of diatribe, blah, blah, blah.

Please talk about the issues and not how much you hate me, especially when you require multiple posts to do it.

I am pleased that today you have chosen to fight with a liberal instead of an anarchist. Continue on your crusade.

Actually I am making fun of you because you can't stop arguing with people. At least I don't take three paragraphs to make a simple point. You are annoying in your attempts to shut down points of view that don't meet your purity test.

NDPP wrote:

Trudeau: Stop the RATification of CUSMA (The New NAFTA)

https://secure.canadians.org/page/40638/action/1

Last chance for token resistance...

Thanks for the link NDPP. I just signed the petition. The Council of Canadians is one of the groups that has been fighting the good fight for decades. The Chapter in my area is suffering from generational burnout. The main active people are now aging seniors not young seniors so it is harder for them to carry on.

Left Turn wrote:

I happen to agree with Sean and votd here. Canadian imperialism is a thing, Canada is an imperialist country in it's own right, and Canadian corporations engage in Canadian imperialism abroad. Kropotkin, when you argue that Canada is a US colony, you play into the hands of some on the left who mistakenly think that Canadian nationalism is 'progressive'.

I am obviously not making myself clear so I'll try again. We have entered a new stage of global capitalism that has fully integrated the "national" elites into a global system that is clearly led by the US and its allies. When we were part of the Commonwealth in the 19th century we also belonged to a global imperial system where we were a colony while also being the colonizers and mainstay of the imperial order. I think that our elite play the same role in the new global imperial order. In the last two decades I believe there has been a major change and we have evolved into a system where Canadian corporations and banks are fully integrated into the US financial system and now in the last decade the Canadian military is fully integrated with the US system. I think our elite are the junior partners and that makes us a vassal state in my opinion. I don't think that the Trudeau/Freeland foreign policy are the actions of a independent country but the actions of a willing partner in the plunder of other peoples resources to enhance the wealth of the global billionaire class and the minions in places like Canada that make that happen live high on the hog.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Left Turn wrote:

I happen to agree with Sean and votd here. Canadian imperialism is a thing, Canada is an imperialist country in it's own right, and Canadian corporations engage in Canadian imperialism abroad. Kropotkin, when you argue that Canada is a US colony, you play into the hands of some on the left who mistakenly think that Canadian nationalism is 'progressive'.

I am obviously not making myself clear so I'll try again. We have entered a new stage of global capitalism that has fully integrated the "national" elites into a global system that is clearly led by the US and its allies. When we were part of the Commonwealth in the 19th century we also belonged to a global imperial system where we were a colony while also being the colonizers and mainstay of the imperial order. I think that our elite play the same role in the new global imperial order. In the last two decades I believe there has been a major change and we have evolved into a system where Canadian corporations and banks are fully integrated into the US financial system and now in the last decade the Canadian military is fully integrated with the US system. I think our elite are the junior partners and that makes us a vassal state in my opinion. I don't think that the Trudeau/Freeland foreign policy are the actions of a independent country but the actions of a willing partner in the plunder of other peoples resources to enhance the wealth of the global billionaire class and the minions in places like Canada that make that happen live high on the hog.

I have to disagree. The biggest Canadian companies function as economic empires in their own right, and the Canadian government supports governments around the globe that support the interests of these companies. I consider the actions of large Canadian companies abroad -- Most notably Canadian mining companies in Latin America and Africa, plus Canadian support of governments that provide a favourable business climate for these companies -- as Canadian imperialism.

It so happens that Canadian foreign policy also serves to further the interests of American imperialism, which mostly has similar interests to Canadian imperialism. But this does not mean that Canada is not an imperialist nation in it's own right.

I believe that it is entirely possible to defeat Canadian imperialism without defeating it's American counterpart. Your analysis would seem to suggest that this is not possible.

The WTO (outside the US) seems to be fighting back 17 countries inlcuding China, Canada, and the EU are setting up a dispute settlement mechanism along the lines of WTO rules to resolve disputes between themselves. This raises the risk that the US trade would have a penalty for thise persuing it. By itself it will not dampen exiting trade but it may make it harder for the US to expand trade. It opens more secure opportunities for countries other than the US to trade with each other while discouraging new deals with the US.

My analysis: For Canada, diversification is hard to achieve given the present deal we have and level of economic integration. However, if this slows US growth it might give Canada (in the future) a little more room and leverage than it has been on track for. In the past Canada was the largest trading partner - by far - with the US. Recently it has been in a three-way competition with China and Mexico. The trend toward fewer energy imports for the US mean that Canada's proportion of US trade would be expected to decline. This might delay the loss of leverage long enough for Canada to have some options or leverage on trade within the block to avoid some of the most devatating of US aggression. The worry of course would be that Canada opt for the latter rather than the former. Canada must use whatever wiggle room it has to pusue trade outside the US and more important rebuild any domestic trade assets it has to be less reliant. This is a tall order and only a small reprieve. The rest of the world might gain more form this of course.