So Bernie, how you doing?

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NDPP

'Bernie Can Win!' (and vid)

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1210606644046024705

"He's the only one Americans take seriously. We speak to Dr Richard Wolff on US politics..."

mmphosis
Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

From Jacobin: Bernie Sanders Believes in Mass Politics — Something the New York Times Can’t Wrap Their Minds Around

Meagan Day wrote:

It’s clear from his rhetoric that Bernie believes the existing state is subservient to capital, that this is a problem, and that it will be difficult to make it behave otherwise. That’s why he insists on trying to tap into a powerful force outside the state that can bend it in the right direction, against its nature. To put it in Wright’s terms, Bernie proposes to use social power to compel state power to discipline economic power. That’s what all the rallies are intended to accomplish.

Bernie’s promise to encourage mass mobilizations is heartening: it means he understands the obstacles to reform he’ll face if he wins. If he does win, expect him to take every opportunity to impress upon ordinary people that they’ve been cast in the leading role. The question, then, will be whether people are ready and willing to take the stage, and to fundamentally transform the balance of power in society.

NDPP

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/UImjWJybYZM

"Bernie & Schumer vote against Trump's NAFTA 2.0"

 

NDPP

Clinton Rips Sanders

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1219665486369165315

"Clinton rips Sanders: 'Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done."

Will crooked Hillary return to fail again?

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

Will crooked Hillary return to fail again?

These Trump talking points were crap to begin with and are not aging well. When you write stuff like this it is hard to take anything else you say seriously.

kropotkin1951

She games the system for herself. She is sycophant that is paid well by the oligarchy in ways that are unimaginable outside of the context of our warped society. I don't think anyone with the people's best interests in mind get paid these kinds of fees to make speeches. It's all semantics given that almost every DC politician is allowed to beg as much money from the oligarchs as they want and it is all legal. Hell its even legal to keep it after the campaign if you don't spend it all, like Newt used to do. Its all a corrupt game  meant to fool the rubes into believing they live in a democracy despite the obvious police state apparatus everywhere in Amerika. The numbers speak for themselves.

Clinton's tax returns show that she and former President Bill Clinton have made $240 million since leaving the White House, thanks largely to speaking engagements and books. Forbes attributes a large portion of that—$189 million—to Bill Clinton, leaving Hillary with a $51 million profit so far.

Since Clinton herself said she and her husband left the White House "dead broke," what they've made since then provides a good idea of their net worth today. Wealth-X estimates Hillary Clinton's net worth to be at least $18 million, and her federal financial disclosure filing in 2015 showed that she had between $11.3 million and $52.7 million in the bank.

Not so bad considering she's said she and her husband were $12 million in debt at the end of his presidential administration in 2001.

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/money-and-power/a12831454/hill...

Sanders is now estimated to have a net worth of $2.5 million, Forbes reported. His net worth has increased thanks to earnings from three best-selling books. He has made at least $1.7 million from those books.  This does not qualify him for the top 1 percent, however, Slate pointed out. You must have a net worth greater than $10 million to be in the top 1 percent.

https://heavy.com/news/2019/06/bernie-sanders-net-worth/

contrarianna

NDPP wrote:

Clinton Rips Sanders

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1219665486369165315

"Clinton rips Sanders: 'Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done."

Will crooked Hillary return to fail again?

Her interview with Hollywood Reporter to promote the 4-part, strategically-timed,  sycophantic Hulu documentary "Hillary"  gives the more extended Clinton response:  

Q: In the doc, you're brutally honest [sic?!] on Sanders: "He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it." That assessment still hold?

Yes, it does.

If he gets the nomination, will you endorse and campaign for him?

I'm not going to go there yet....

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/hillary-clinton-full-a-fiery-...

So Sanders is soooo bad Clinton won't say whether or not she would support him--even if he gets nominated--against the figure she calls "Putin's puppet" and would "do anything I can to defeat the current incumbent".

As for endorsements, despite being royally screwed over by the corrupt Clinton/DNC fix in 2016:

 We Regret to Inform You that Hillary Clinton Is at It Again

....Sanders, it hardly needs saying, both endorsed and campaigned for Clinton — holding some seventeen events in eleven states during the last week of the campaign alone. Breaking with much of the US media, he actively discouraged focus on the scandal surrounding her private email server and conducted a campaign far less negative in tone than the one she herself had waged against Obama in 2008 (never once suggesting he intended to remain in the race because his opponent might be assassinated, as Clinton quite literally did eight years earlier). Contrary to the risible story Clinton and her apologists like to tell, women are actually more likely to support Sanders than men — a basic demographic fact demonstrated so regularly by opinion polling that anyone saying otherwise is trading in quite deliberate falsehood....

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/01/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-docume...

The attack on Sanders as a strategic  act:

Is Hillary Clinton Running for President Again? Sure Seems Like It....

Hillary Clinton seems to be hoping for a brokered Democratic convention so she can offer herself up as the “reasonable” compromise candidate....

In the interview, Clinton is asked if she has considered jumping into the 2020 presidential race. “I have had so many people [urge me to],” she replied. “Every day. And I’m grateful for people’s confidence, but I did think it was right for me to step back. I’ll do anything I can to defeat the current incumbent, and to reverse a lot of his damaging policies. Thankfully, I still have a voice and a following.”

I can’t simply dismiss this as another example of a politician who doesn’t know when to recede. I don’t believe this is just Clinton acting out because Iowa can’t throw a party without inviting her. This interview, and that pointedly vicious quote about Sanders, will explode the rift between the progressive candidates and the establishment candidates on the doorstep of the season’s first caucus. It will exacerbate the tensions already in place to a clamorous degree.

I believe it is deliberate on two levels. First, this is the establishment standard-bearer jumping into the fray in a moment when the establishment is conspicuously worried about the campaigns of Sanders and Warren. I have been nursing a fear that the Democratic Party might prefer a Trump victory over losing control of the party, and this sudden broadside from Clinton has only exacerbated those concerns.

Second, "Hillary" is slated for release in March, an enormously important month that will see 29 primaries and caucuses take place in both the states and the territories. Super Tuesday falls on March 3, and will include make-or-break primary votes in California, Texas, Virginia, Michigan, Florida, Illinois, North Carolina and Ohio....

https://truthout.org/articles/is-hillary-clinton-running-for-president-a...

Sean in Ottawa

Sanders is now way in front in the latest poll over Trump.

He is an older, white, male, northern politician. There are reall reasons to believe that two terms when he is near 80 are not in the cards. His running mate should be someone able to look to 2024 and who balances all those things about Sanders that are not positives. I think Stacey Abrams as running mate would be a tremendous asset and she would bring a very intelligent alternative voice to the White House. As well she can inspire people who will still be with her in 2024.

Abrams can redefine Southern Democrat for the future.

I think this ticket might be able to beat Trump and it might make some of the changes the US needs.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Joe Rogan says he will vote for Bernie Sanders in the California primary. His YouTube channel has 7.3 million subscribers, and his interview with Bernie has been viewed over 10 million times. This will give Bernie a significant boost amongst a huge group of potential Trump voters.

Mobo2000

That's great.   Finally something that Joe Rogan is not a dumbass about.   Joe Rogan's oversized influence on the political discourse in the US is simultaneously perplexing and perfectly fitting.   I appreciate his attempts at balance and providing a platform for alternative and opposing views, but I think a large part of his objectivity and perceived "fairness" comes from his equally distributed ignorance about the various topics/guests/issues being discussed.    Exception for UFC/Mixed Martial Arts topics, where he is generally very insightful and knowledgeable.   Anyhow, apologies for the drift.   Go Bernie!

NDPP

"Hillary Clinton, the butcher of Libya and neighbors, backer of the criminal Iraq war slaughter, and lucrative toady of Wall Street, now blasts Bernie Sanders, who opposed all the above, and campaigned for her in 2016, before she gave America Trump. Disgraceful! - R"

https://twitter.com/RalphNader/status/1220754858330009600

NDPP

"On this day 75 years ago, Allied forces liberated the Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp, the scene of the most horrific mass atrocity and genocide in history. Today we must remember the lessons of those dark days and acknowledge the danger of letting hate and anti-semitism fester."

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1221880670915526659

How about we also acknowledge that liberation was by Red Army troops alone, Bernie, not 'allied forces.' Or is the Russophobia project of the Democratic Party now so virulent that it's verboten to cite even well known historical accomplishments if they involve Russia?

NorthReport
contrarianna

NDPP wrote:

"On this day 75 years ago, Allied forces liberated the Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp, the scene of the most horrific mass atrocity and genocide in history. Today we must remember the lessons of those dark days and acknowledge the danger of letting hate and anti-semitism fester."

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1221880670915526659

How about we also acknowledge that liberation was by Red Army troops alone, Bernie, not 'allied forces.' Or is the Russophobia project of the Democratic Party now so virulent that it's verboten to cite even well known historical accomplishments if they involve Russia?

It's true that the USSR liberated Auschwitz, as well as other Nazi death camps in the east.

But Sanders is not wrong since the Soviet Union was part of the Allied Powers in WWII.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps#Liberation

The fact that Sanders didn't single out the USSR by name in today's cold war is neither surprising nor shameful.

Being disappointed at Sanders for not giving further ammunition for his elimination from the election circus is rather silly, unless of course one fantasizes that most people can sort through the propaganda, and that the US is institutionally a functioning democracy. Neither of which is the case.

There is some cause for optimism in even having Bernie Sanders running for President, insofar as so many people in the US would vote for Sanders, a decent modest economic reformer who promises pro-people based policies, and less imperialism.

Unfortunately, those same positive qualities and promised policies make him an enemy of the state, and the more popular he gets, the more he will be targeted for destruction at every turn by the propaganda arsenal.

The oligarchy and  military connected media and the political duopoly has been usually successful in convincing people to go against their their own best interests. In a functioning democracy Sanders could well win both the nomination and the presidency. The reality is something different.

The surprise populist win of Corbyn in the UK over the furious neoLabour elites in 2015, and his s surprising election gains in 2016 was a wakeup call for the US/UK security state apparatus, and military/procurement cohorts which resulted in numerous operations, with the unrelenting assistence of the servile cororate media (both rightwing and liberal) which made sure Boris Johnson became the preferred candidate.

Corbyn’s defeat has slain the left’s last illusion
13 December 2019 Jonathan Cook
https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2019-12-13/corbyns-defeat-slayed-the-...

Cook's litany of the attack vectors against Corbyn have already been used against Sanders, though relatively limited so far.  Like Corbyn, false accustions of "Misongeny", "Antisemitism" "A Russian dupe" are prime lines of attack waiting for expansion.

If Sanders even gets close to winning the nomination (to face the later stage entry of superdelegates in a brokered convention)  the Security state agencies,  both parties and the corporate media will bring what we saw in the full-on destroy-Corbyn treatment, (even though Sanders is not advocating Corbyn's more socialist policies).

If the really unthinkable happened and Sanders did get the nomination, the major "liberal" media would shift into higher gear, and though they are unlikely to directly support the vile Trump, who has been a great source of their profits during the Russiagate fiasco, they will chime in, en masse, to chip away at Bernie's support, a la CNN, NYT, etc.

Despite the fact that Trump was seen as a dangerous loose cannon and was not the first choice of much of the nervous ruling elite looking for security in policy and profits, Trump will be much preferred to the modest reforms and sane policies that Sanders supports.

Core state/corporate interests have mostly done well under Trump, and will target Sanders with a tsunami of negative messaging: The climate-destroying fossil fuel industry, the security state and arms industry and the military-industrial-media complex, the banks, US regime change gang and economic warfare against economic  geopolitical non-absorbed rivals, the pharmacetical and healthcare lobbies, Saudi Arabia and Israel lobbies are only a partial list who would prefer Trump to Sanders.

Trillions of dollars of environment destroying, blood-soaked profits and funding of  bi-partisan trough-connected politicians are at stake, successful massive negative messaging and dirty tricks are mere pocket change from that pile.

 Get ready for the Bernie Sanders selloff
Rick Newman
Senior Columnist
Yahoo FinanceJanuary 28, 2020

Bernie Sanders supporters are pumped for the Democratic primary elections, which are set to begin just as the Vermont senator seems to be cresting in the polls.

Investors are on the other side of that trade.

Financial markets are sanguine, for now, about the 2020 presidential election, with no signs of worry about President Donald Trump losing his re-election bid and a new president imposing new rules. But if Sanders has a strong showing in the Iowa caucuses on Feb. 3, expect markets to adjust — downward....

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/get-ready-for-the-bernie-sanders-selloff-...

See also:

DNC Leader Stacks Nominating Committee Against Bernie Sanders
January 27, 2020

Tom Perez has put forward a cartoonishly neoliberal cast of foreign policy hacks, corporate and Israeli lobbyists and Wall Street consultants, reports Kevin Gosztola.

https://consortiumnews.com/2020/01/27/dnc-leader-stacks-nominating-commi...

 

 

NDPP

From the Consortium News link above:

"Democratic National Committee Chair Tom Perez has nominated dozens of lobbyists, corporate consultants, think tank board members, and former officials linked to Barack Obama and Bill and Hillary Clinton's presidential campaigns to serve on the Democratic National Convention (DNC) nominating committee this July. Many of Perez's nominees are vocal opponents of Senator Bernie Sanders and spoke out against his campaign when he challenged Hillary Clinton for the nomination in 2016. Just as it did in 2016, the DNC appears determined to sabotage a Sanders nomination..."

lagatta4

I agree. I always say that the Red Army liberated Auschwitz, but I'm not USian, nor a candidate for their presidency. I think other people there must remind their fellow citizens of this fact (remember I wrote a lot about Stalingrad/Volgograd) but it would be electoral poison for a US presidential candidate constantly accused of being a Communist (which he isn't) to do so.

josh

NDPP wrote:

From the Consortium News link above:

"Democratic National Committee Chair Tom Perez has nominated dozens of lobbyists, corporate consultants, think tank board members, and former officials linked to Barack Obama and Bill and Hillary Clinton's presidential campaigns to serve on the Democratic National Convention (DNC) nominating committee this July. Many of Perez's nominees are vocal opponents of Senator Bernie Sanders and spoke out against his campaign when he challenged Hillary Clinton for the nomination in 2016. Just as it did in 2016, the DNC appears determined to sabotage a Sanders nomination..."

Have no idea what a nominating committee is. Might mean platform or rules committee.

Aristotleded24

A Sanders Presidency means the entire country will get screwed over.

NDPP

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/678K3E94eeo

Bernie Leads Biden By 9%

contrarianna

NDPP wrote:

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/678K3E94eeo

Bernie Leads Biden By 9%

It's heartening that Sanders has so much popular support, but he has zero chance at the US presidency for the reasons given in my previous  post #316. Polling at this time means little.

The number of people who apparently still believe the myth of a functioning US democracy in this age, is at once touching and disturbing---disturbing because it means people continue to act as if the staged elections can reflect the wishes of the people governed by the bi-partisan oligarchy.

This doesn't mean I oppose speaking out, voting, or activism--sometimes one must rebel even if the game is fixed and futile. (Camus's Sisyphus).

In keeping with one of the attack vectors mentioned in my previous post, the US-based "Israel first and always" AIPAC lobby (which all politician's must pay tribute to) has deployed a front organization with $800,000, so far, in ads attacking "grandfather Bernie":

Meet Mark Mellman: the Centrist, Pro-Israel Operative Behind the Anti-Sanders Ads in Iowa
Akela Lacy
February 1 2020
....
This week, the political action committee affiliated with Mellman’s new group, the Democratic Majority for Israel  is spending at least $800,000 on ad buys in Iowa to go after presidential hopeful Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., who is polling as the front-runner for Monday’s early-state caucus. At least one of the ads mentions Sanders’s heart attack. The ad campaign, which the Daily Beast initially reported Monday, is the first attacking Sanders by name so far in either of his presidential campaigns.
....
Enter Democratic Majority for Israel. Mellman and several strategists close to the Democratic Party launched the group last year. DMFI aims to curtail criticisms of Israel from the party’s left flank by targeting primary challenges against pro-Israel Democrats. The group’s political action committee, which formed in July, has only spent money in Iowa so far. The PAC “does plan to spend in other races in other places, on behalf of pro-Israel Democratic candidates for House and Senate,” Mellman said. “We are still determining exactly which races we will be involved in.”....

https://theintercept.com/2020/02/01/iowa-bernie-sanders-democratic-major...

Sean in Ottawa

contrarianna wrote:

NDPP wrote:

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/678K3E94eeo

Bernie Leads Biden By 9%

It's heartening that Sanders has so much popular support, but he has zero chance at the US presidency for the reasons given in my previous  post #316. Polling at this time means little.

The number of people who apparently still believe the myth of a functioning US democracy in this age, is at once touching and disturbing---disturbing because it means people continue to act as if the staged elections can reflect the wishes of the people governed by the bi-partisan oligarchy.

This doesn't mean I oppose speaking out, voting, or activism--sometimes one must rebel even if the game is fixed and futile. (Camus's Sisyphus).

In keeping with one of the attack vectors mentioned in my previous post, the US-based "Israel first and always" AIPAC lobby (which all politician's must pay tribute to) has deployed a front organization with $800,000, so far, in ads attacking "grandfather Bernie":

Meet Mark Mellman: the Centrist, Pro-Israel Operative Behind the Anti-Sanders Ads in Iowa
Akela Lacy
February 1 2020
....
This week, the political action committee affiliated with Mellman’s new group, the Democratic Majority for Israel  is spending at least $800,000 on ad buys in Iowa to go after presidential hopeful Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., who is polling as the front-runner for Monday’s early-state caucus. At least one of the ads mentions Sanders’s heart attack. The ad campaign, which the Daily Beast initially reported Monday, is the first attacking Sanders by name so far in either of his presidential campaigns.
....
Enter Democratic Majority for Israel. Mellman and several strategists close to the Democratic Party launched the group last year. DMFI aims to curtail criticisms of Israel from the party’s left flank by targeting primary challenges against pro-Israel Democrats. The group’s political action committee, which formed in July, has only spent money in Iowa so far. The PAC “does plan to spend in other races in other places, on behalf of pro-Israel Democratic candidates for House and Senate,” Mellman said. “We are still determining exactly which races we will be involved in.”....

https://theintercept.com/2020/02/01/iowa-bernie-sanders-democratic-major...

I think that people on this site tend to a level of exaggeration that destroys what otherwise could be valuable arguments.

There is no question here that there are forces against Sanders or that that the playing field is not level. But to say with breathless authority that the result is fixed is an exaggeration. While extrermely difficult it is not impossible. Propaganda is very powerful but not certain. A dynamic like Trump which is an extreme in the other direction poses a choice that could have people choose Sanders. It is not impossible.

I do not think left arguments are bolstered by these exaggerations that we are seeing across these threads. It really takes us out of the conversation.

ETA: there is a difference between an analysis that says something has no chance -- this is opinion -- and a statement that it is absolutely fixed. We can certainly say the first but we endanger the reputation of critical arguments when we say the second without any support for such an absolute being claimed.

iyraste1313

 We can certainly say the first but we endanger the reputation of critical arguments when we say the second without any support for such an absolute being claimed....

of course there are no absolutes, neither in science nor life...but to put your hopes in that 1% possibility, when we should be discussing useful transformative strategy? What is against Sanders is a multi multi trillion dollar corporate run system.......

Sean in Ottawa

iyraste1313 wrote:

 We can certainly say the first but we endanger the reputation of critical arguments when we say the second without any support for such an absolute being claimed....

of course there are no absolutes, neither in science nor life...but to put your hopes in that 1% possibility, when we should be discussing useful transformative strategy? What is against Sanders is a multi multi trillion dollar corporate run system.......

I don't agree entirely with your odds but I can respect your statement. What I disagree with is the absolute statemetn of there being a fix.

He has long odds and faces a tough campaign on a tilted playing field but there is no fix. Some local races could be fixed with cheating ballot machines etc but this is not proven as the case across the country. It is not impossible that he win.

I cannot place his chances that low to be nominee -- maybe they are about 25% and then to win from there they cannot be less than 25% as well. It may be against the odds but it is not as remote as you suggest.

This is a very rare opportunity that we could see a real left candidate with a path to the white house. This is due to the divison created by Trump and a field that is fairly weak on the Democrat side. 

NDPP

The Party's Over: Bernie's Last Dance With The Dems

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/01/31/the-partys-over-bernies-last-dan...

"...Even on those foreign policy (loosely defined) issues where I find his positions atrocious - calling Maduro a 'dictator', refusing to defend Julian Assange, reinforcing the phony Russiagate narrative, clinging to two-state liberal Zionism, etc - Bernie is a different kind of political actor than any Democratic politician who is now or ever has been close to the nomination. I would say with some confidence that Bernie is not going to attack Venezuela (or Iran) and may very well remove sanctions, that he is not going to endorse Israel's annexation of the West Bank, that he will try to reverse the nuclear and space arms-race and try to reduce defense spending, that he may possibly stop the prosecution of Assange, etc.

I cannot say any of those things about any of the other candidates. So, yeah, Bernie Sanders is not going to end US imperialism. He will just put it into hibernation and take us back from the brink of war with countries like Iran and Russia. Just. So I won't begrude leftists who find some of these positions disqualifying, but I'll vote for him, and I hope he wins the Democratic nomination and the general election, since either of those victories would disrupt the US political order in a promising way. I also think he would have an excellent chance of winning the general election, and a slight chance of winning the Democratic nomination. It is the fight for the latter that is going to disrupt the American political order over the next six months, and will, I hope, deal a catastrophic blow to the two-party system..."

NDPP

TRNN: Corporate Democrats Target Sanders As His Popularity Rises

https://t.co/IWDQ0CSxXW?amp=1

"The Intercept's Akela Lacy says Sanders is being targeted by wealthy interests who would be damaged by his presidency..."

josh

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

contrarianna wrote:

NDPP wrote:

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/678K3E94eeo

Bernie Leads Biden By 9%

It's heartening that Sanders has so much popular support, but he has zero chance at the US presidency for the reasons given in my previous  post #316. Polling at this time means little.

The number of people who apparently still believe the myth of a functioning US democracy in this age, is at once touching and disturbing---disturbing because it means people continue to act as if the staged elections can reflect the wishes of the people governed by the bi-partisan oligarchy.

This doesn't mean I oppose speaking out, voting, or activism--sometimes one must rebel even if the game is fixed and futile. (Camus's Sisyphus).

In keeping with one of the attack vectors mentioned in my previous post, the US-based "Israel first and always" AIPAC lobby (which all politician's must pay tribute to) has deployed a front organization with $800,000, so far, in ads attacking "grandfather Bernie":

Meet Mark Mellman: the Centrist, Pro-Israel Operative Behind the Anti-Sanders Ads in Iowa
Akela Lacy
February 1 2020
....
This week, the political action committee affiliated with Mellman’s new group, the Democratic Majority for Israel  is spending at least $800,000 on ad buys in Iowa to go after presidential hopeful Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., who is polling as the front-runner for Monday’s early-state caucus. At least one of the ads mentions Sanders’s heart attack. The ad campaign, which the Daily Beast initially reported Monday, is the first attacking Sanders by name so far in either of his presidential campaigns.
....
Enter Democratic Majority for Israel. Mellman and several strategists close to the Democratic Party launched the group last year. DMFI aims to curtail criticisms of Israel from the party’s left flank by targeting primary challenges against pro-Israel Democrats. The group’s political action committee, which formed in July, has only spent money in Iowa so far. The PAC “does plan to spend in other races in other places, on behalf of pro-Israel Democratic candidates for House and Senate,” Mellman said. “We are still determining exactly which races we will be involved in.”....

https://theintercept.com/2020/02/01/iowa-bernie-sanders-democratic-major...

I think that people on this site tend to a level of exaggeration that destroys what otherwise could be valuable arguments.

There is no question here that there are forces against Sanders or that that the playing field is not level. But to say with breathless authority that the result is fixed is an exaggeration. While extrermely difficult it is not impossible. Propaganda is very powerful but not certain. A dynamic like Trump which is an extreme in the other direction poses a choice that could have people choose Sanders. It is not impossible.

I do not think left arguments are bolstered by these exaggerations that we are seeing across these threads. It really takes us out of the conversation.

ETA: there is a difference between an analysis that says something has no chance -- this is opinion -- and a statement that it is absolutely fixed. We can certainly say the first but we endanger the reputation of critical arguments when we say the second without any support for such an absolute being claimed.

 

Well said.

Sean in Ottawa

Kerry saying he is thinking about running to stop Sanders. One of two things would happen -- somehow he wins and the final result of the presidential election will be Trump first, Sanders second (independent) and Kerry third (democrat). Or Kerry loses but splits the centre-right democrats with Biden allowing Sanders chances of winning to go up.

Sean in Ottawa

Kerry saying he is thinking about running to stop Sanders. One of two things would happen -- somehow he wins and the final result of the presidential election will be Trump first, Sanders second (independent) and Kerry third (democrat). Or Kerry loses but splits the centre-right democrats with Biden allowing Sanders chances of winning to go up.

josh

Sitting in the lobby restaurant of the Renaissance Savery hotel, Kerry was overheard by an NBC News analyst saying "maybe I'm f---ing deluding myself here" and explaining that in order to run, he'd have to step down from the board of Bank of America and give up his ability to make paid speeches. Kerry said donors like venture capitalist Doug Hickey would have to "raise a couple of million," adding that such donors "now have the reality of Bernie."

Asked about the call later on Sunday, Kerry said that he was "absolutely not" contemplating joining the Democratic primary race. He reiterated this sentiment in a tweet later, saying that "any report otherwise is f---ing (or categorically) false."

Sean in Ottawa

josh wrote:

Sitting in the lobby restaurant of the Renaissance Savery hotel, Kerry was overheard by an NBC News analyst saying "maybe I'm f---ing deluding myself here" and explaining that in order to run, he'd have to step down from the board of Bank of America and give up his ability to make paid speeches. Kerry said donors like venture capitalist Doug Hickey would have to "raise a couple of million," adding that such donors "now have the reality of Bernie."

Asked about the call later on Sunday, Kerry said that he was "absolutely not" contemplating joining the Democratic primary race. He reiterated this sentiment in a tweet later, saying that "any report otherwise is f---ing (or categorically) false."

Ok. I think his comments were f______ stupid regardless what spin is placed on them. 

Sean in Ottawa

Perhaps relevant here: I really think that Trump is splitting the Democrat party.

By bringing the GOP to the far right, Trump is expelling enough right wingers to join the numerous right wing of the Democratic party. By polarizing the politics he is creating a wider breadth of the mainstream part of the democratic party than the party can effectively hold together. The Demcratic party is essentially a Liberal and an NDP in one unhappy marriage. Trump has grown both ends of the Democrat party by defections on the right and by polarization on the left. This party is no longer coherent and does not share the same set of values. The US would benefit from these two parties becoming three, a run-off for President among the top two candidate and PR for the Houses. Won't happen but that is what a US democratic electoral system would look like based on the existing institutions. Add to that curbing the amount of money in the system and you would have several effective reforms and a step to US democracy.

NDPP

Corporate Media and Democratic Establishment Target Sanders

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/02/03/sand-f03.html

"On the eve of the Iowa caucuses, where the first vote will be cast in the race for the Democratic political nomination, the corporate media and Democratic Party establishment are mounting increasingly desperate and reactionary attacks on Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders. With polls showing Sanders holding a narrow lead over former Vice President Joe Biden and a half dozen other rivals in Iowa, and tied with Biden nationally, the media barrage has been, in all but name, a stop-Sanders campaign.

No less than five separate commentaries, including op-eds and articles purporting to be news reports, appeared in the New York Times and Washington Post alone over the weekend, all of them proclaiming that the nomination of a self-described 'democratic socialist' would be a disaster for the Democrats and guarantee the reelection of Donald Trump. At the same time, defeated 2016 Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton stepped up her attack on Sanders, while the other leading Democratic Party insiders joined the effort.

The Democratic National Committee (DNC) announced Friday a rule-change in determining eligibility for the debates that would open the door to billionaire Michael Bloomberg, and some DNC members were openly discussing proposed rule-changes at the Democratic nominating convention to block Sanders. The actual outcome of the Iowa caucuses remains highly uncertain, but Sanders continues to draw by far the largest crowds..."

lagatta4

Yes, after their efforts insinuating that Jeremy Corbyn was an antisemite, the Likudists have zero problem stooping to attack Zayde Sanders.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/sanders-dfmi-attack-ads/

NorthReport

New poll shows Bernie Sanders with big lead over Joe Biden before Iowa Democratic caucuses

 

by Charlie Smith on February 2nd, 2020 at 4:45 PM

2

  • Among Bernie Sanders's many young supporters is...Ariana Grande.

2 of 2

  • Among Bernie Sanders's many young supporters is...Ariana Grande.ARIANA GRANDE

Vermont senator Bernie Sanders may be poised to win the first major contest in the race to become the Democratic Party's presidential nominee.

A final Emerson College/7 News Iowa poll found that Sanders has the support of 28 percent of those who will gather on Monday (February 3) at caucuses to discuss and vote for whom they support.

Former vice president Joe Biden is in second place at 21 percent, followed by South Bend mayor Pete Buttigieg at 15 percent.

In fourth and fifth place are Massachusetts senator Elizabeth Warren (14 percent) and Minnesota senator Amy Klobuchar (11 percent).

There's a margin of error of 3.3 percent.

Sanders was down two percent from the previous poll whereas Buttigieg was up five percent. Warren's support rose by three percent.

Iowa is 85 percent white, so its demographics don't match the country as a whole or heavily populated states with large Democratic Party support, such as California and New York.

In the Democratic Party's Iowa caucuses, each precinct divides its seats based on how caucus goers voted.

The first Democratic presidential primary will be held on February 11 in New Hampshire, which Sanders won handily in 2016 over former senator Hillary Clinton.

Recent polls by American Research Group, RKM Research and Communications, and Marist College all show Sanders with a comfortable lead in New Hampshire.

 

https://www.straight.com/news/1354836/new-poll-shows-bernie-sanders-big-lead-over-joe-biden-iowa-democratic-caucuses

NorthReport

In Iowa, Bernie Beckons to the Kids, and They Love Him Right Back

Sanders supporters say if their guy doesn’t win, ‘We’ll take to the streets.’ The Tyee is there.

 

https://thetyee.ca/News/2020/02/03/Iowa-Bernie-Beckons-Kids/

NDPP

2020 Elections: Can Bernie Sanders Really Pull This Off?

https://youtu.be/hKn0jS8bTao

"As candidates jostle for a shot at the Oval Office, outsider and socialist Bernie Sanders is leading the way in terms of donors and joint front-runner in the polls."

NDPP

Democracy Now: Can Bernie Sanders Defeat Trump (and vid)

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1224727900156571648

"Democracy Now has frozen out longtime guests who critique the Syria proxy-war; Russiagate and Ukrainegate, but don't worry -- it will platform Iraq War propagandist David Frum."

He's been reinvented as a Guardian-style neolibcon fave.

contrarianna

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

contrarianna wrote:

NDPP wrote:

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/678K3E94eeo

Bernie Leads Biden By 9%

It's heartening that Sanders has so much popular support, but he has zero chance at the US presidency for the reasons given in my previous  post #316. Polling at this time means little.

The number of people who apparently still believe the myth of a functioning US democracy in this age, is at once touching and disturbing---disturbing because it means people continue to act as if the staged elections can reflect the wishes of the people governed by the bi-partisan oligarchy.

This doesn't mean I oppose speaking out, voting, or activism--sometimes one must rebel even if the game is fixed and futile. (Camus's Sisyphus).

In keeping with one of the attack vectors mentioned in my previous post, the US-based "Israel first and always" AIPAC lobby (which all politician's must pay tribute to) has deployed a front organization with $800,000, so far, in ads attacking "grandfather Bernie":

Meet Mark Mellman: the Centrist, Pro-Israel Operative Behind the Anti-Sanders Ads in Iowa
Akela Lacy
February 1 2020
....
This week, the political action committee affiliated with Mellman’s new group, the Democratic Majority for Israel  is spending at least $800,000 on ad buys in Iowa to go after presidential hopeful Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., who is polling as the front-runner for Monday’s early-state caucus. At least one of the ads mentions Sanders’s heart attack. The ad campaign, which the Daily Beast initially reported Monday, is the first attacking Sanders by name so far in either of his presidential campaigns.
....
Enter Democratic Majority for Israel. Mellman and several strategists close to the Democratic Party launched the group last year. DMFI aims to curtail criticisms of Israel from the party’s left flank by targeting primary challenges against pro-Israel Democrats. The group’s political action committee, which formed in July, has only spent money in Iowa so far. The PAC “does plan to spend in other races in other places, on behalf of pro-Israel Democratic candidates for House and Senate,” Mellman said. “We are still determining exactly which races we will be involved in.”....

https://theintercept.com/2020/02/01/iowa-bernie-sanders-democratic-major...

I think that people on this site tend to a level of exaggeration that destroys what otherwise could be valuable arguments.

There is no question here that there are forces against Sanders or that that the playing field is not level. But to say with breathless authority that the result is fixed is an exaggeration. While extrermely difficult it is not impossible. Propaganda is very powerful but not certain. A dynamic like Trump which is an extreme in the other direction poses a choice that could have people choose Sanders. It is not impossible.

I do not think left arguments are bolstered by these exaggerations that we are seeing across these threads. It really takes us out of the conversation.

ETA: there is a difference between an analysis that says something has no chance -- this is opinion -- and a statement that it is absolutely fixed. We can certainly say the first but we endanger the reputation of critical arguments when we say the second without any support for such an absolute being claimed.

I concede that saying "zero chance" is an overstatement. Even for an asteroid wiping out life on earth tomorrow (rather than a later date) it's not a zero chance. Yet I would say "zero chance" for a Sanders nomination is less of an exaggeration and numerically much closer to the truth than your "25% chance".

Chomsky said Sanders beating Trump would be "a miracle" though Sanders would, IMO, could still have a better chance at beating Trump than gaining the nomination.

A first ballot nomination win by Sanders, IMO, is not in the cards, at that point the unleashed superdelegates would finish him off in a brokered convention.  I say this not with "breathless authority" (save your asthma inhaler) but from sober observation. I would dearly love to be proved wrong and would joyfully eat crow here...stay tuned.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Perhaps relevant here: I really think that Trump is splitting the Democrat party.

By bringing the GOP to the far right, Trump is expelling enough right wingers to join the numerous right wing of the Democratic party. By polarizing the politics he is creating a wider breadth of the mainstream part of the democratic party than the party can effectively hold together....

It's a peculiar fantasy to say rightwingers fleeing Trumps greater extremism are a significant cause of the Democratic Party intranicene conflict. The conflict clearly centres on the surprising challenge from the progressive Sanders; he is the novelty here who "sows discord" (using the Russiagate meme) by his mere entry and spurs the long-entrenched Democratic establishment and their backers into a vicious attack formation. Sanders rise was not a reaction caused by Trump, but a populist disallusionment with the neoliberal wrecking crew leadership that defines both parties.

"Nobody likes Bernie--he's done nothing---nobody can work with him", but, "Republican crossovers made me say that" --Really?  Yet, in the taking down of Sanders the Dem Party faction of the duopoly does have lots of support from Trump and their fellow Republican frenemy trough-swillers.

 

 

Sean in Ottawa

contrarianna wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

contrarianna wrote:

NDPP wrote:

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/678K3E94eeo

Bernie Leads Biden By 9%

It's heartening that Sanders has so much popular support, but he has zero chance at the US presidency for the reasons given in my previous  post #316. Polling at this time means little.

The number of people who apparently still believe the myth of a functioning US democracy in this age, is at once touching and disturbing---disturbing because it means people continue to act as if the staged elections can reflect the wishes of the people governed by the bi-partisan oligarchy.

This doesn't mean I oppose speaking out, voting, or activism--sometimes one must rebel even if the game is fixed and futile. (Camus's Sisyphus).

In keeping with one of the attack vectors mentioned in my previous post, the US-based "Israel first and always" AIPAC lobby (which all politician's must pay tribute to) has deployed a front organization with $800,000, so far, in ads attacking "grandfather Bernie":

Meet Mark Mellman: the Centrist, Pro-Israel Operative Behind the Anti-Sanders Ads in Iowa
Akela Lacy
February 1 2020
....
This week, the political action committee affiliated with Mellman’s new group, the Democratic Majority for Israel  is spending at least $800,000 on ad buys in Iowa to go after presidential hopeful Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., who is polling as the front-runner for Monday’s early-state caucus. At least one of the ads mentions Sanders’s heart attack. The ad campaign, which the Daily Beast initially reported Monday, is the first attacking Sanders by name so far in either of his presidential campaigns.
....
Enter Democratic Majority for Israel. Mellman and several strategists close to the Democratic Party launched the group last year. DMFI aims to curtail criticisms of Israel from the party’s left flank by targeting primary challenges against pro-Israel Democrats. The group’s political action committee, which formed in July, has only spent money in Iowa so far. The PAC “does plan to spend in other races in other places, on behalf of pro-Israel Democratic candidates for House and Senate,” Mellman said. “We are still determining exactly which races we will be involved in.”....

https://theintercept.com/2020/02/01/iowa-bernie-sanders-democratic-major...

I think that people on this site tend to a level of exaggeration that destroys what otherwise could be valuable arguments.

There is no question here that there are forces against Sanders or that that the playing field is not level. But to say with breathless authority that the result is fixed is an exaggeration. While extrermely difficult it is not impossible. Propaganda is very powerful but not certain. A dynamic like Trump which is an extreme in the other direction poses a choice that could have people choose Sanders. It is not impossible.

I do not think left arguments are bolstered by these exaggerations that we are seeing across these threads. It really takes us out of the conversation.

ETA: there is a difference between an analysis that says something has no chance -- this is opinion -- and a statement that it is absolutely fixed. We can certainly say the first but we endanger the reputation of critical arguments when we say the second without any support for such an absolute being claimed.

I concede that saying "zero chance" is an overstatement. Even for an asteroid wiping out life on earth tomorrow (rather than a later date) it's not a zero chance. Yet I would say "zero chance" for a Sanders nomination is less of an exaggeration and numerically much closer to the truth than your "25% chance".

Chomsky said Sanders beating Trump would be "a miracle" though Sanders would, IMO, could still have a better chance at beating Trump than gaining the nomination.

A first ballot nomination win by Sanders, IMO, is not in the cards, at that point the unleashed superdelegates would finish him off in a brokered convention.  I say this not with "breathless authority" (save your asthma inhaler) but from sober observation. I would dearly love to be proved wrong and would joyfully eat crow here...stay tuned.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Perhaps relevant here: I really think that Trump is splitting the Democrat party.

By bringing the GOP to the far right, Trump is expelling enough right wingers to join the numerous right wing of the Democratic party. By polarizing the politics he is creating a wider breadth of the mainstream part of the democratic party than the party can effectively hold together....

It's a peculiar fantasy to say rightwingers fleeing Trumps greater extremism are a significant cause of the Democratic Party intranicene conflict. The conflict clearly centres on the surprising challenge from the progressive Sanders; he is the novelty here who "sows discord" (using the Russiagate meme) by his mere entry and spurs the long-entrenched Democratic establishment and their backers into a vicious attack formation. Sanders rise was not a reaction caused by Trump, but a populist disallusionment with the neoliberal wrecking crew leadership that defines both parties.

"Nobody likes Bernie--he's done nothing---nobody can work with him", but, "Republican crossovers made me say that" --Really?  Yet, in the taking down of Sanders the Dem Party faction of the duopoly does have lots of support from Trump and their fellow Republican frenemy trough-swillers.

 

 

You are right in the sense that I should not have said Trump is the cause. I should have said the Tea Party. The collapse of the centre of the Republican party along with growth of the right has really moved moderate Republicans to the Democrat party. As well as the pendulum shifts to the right it then swings back. I do contend that the rise of the left of the Democrat party is a result of the last couple decades of extremes by Republicans at the state and federal level -- rhetoric and policies. I do not think the US would have as much life on the left if the right had not polarized things. I do grant you though that this is not just a recent thing. Trump is not the cause -- he is the symptom.

NDPP

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/VX4_RyfedBU

"DNC caught flipping votes from Bernie to Buttigieg."

NDPP

Sanders Surged in Iowa on a Wave of New Voters

https://twitter.com/NicholsUprising/status/1226007367621500928

"In the first round of Iowa Caucus voting (the rough equivalent of a primary), Bernie Sanders is now at 43,671 votes, while Buttigieg has 37,557. Sanders is 6,000+ votes ahead of Buttigieg, 11,000+ votes ahead of Warren, and 17,000+ votes ahead of Biden..."

NorthReport
contrarianna

AIPAC IS HELPING FUND ANTI-BERNIE SANDERS SUPER PAC ADS IN NEVADA
Ryan Grim, Akela Lacy
February 14 2020, 10:34 a.m.

THE AMERICAN ISRAEL Public Affairs Committee is helping to fund a Super PAC launching attack ads against Sen. Bernie Sanders in Nevada on Saturday, according to two sources with knowledge of the arrangement. The ads are being run by a group called Democratic Majority for Israel, founded by longtime AIPAC strategist Mark Mellman.

The Nevada attack ads, which will air in media markets in Reno and Las Vegas, follow a similar spending blitz by DMFI ahead of the Iowa caucuses. Like the ads that aired in Iowa, the Nevada ads will attack Sanders on the idea that he’s not electable, Mediaite reported.

DMFI spent $800,000 on the Iowa ads, while the spending on the Nevada ads remains private. AIPAC is helping bankroll the anti-Sanders project by allowing donations to DMFI to count as contributions to AIPAC, the sources said. As is typical with most big-money giving programs, the more a donor gives to AIPAC, the higher tier they can claim — $100,000 level, $1 million level, and so on — and the more benefits accrue to them. A $100,000 donor gets more access to members of Congress at private functions, for instance, than someone who merely pays AIPAC’s conference fee. A $1 million donor gets still more, which means that it is important to donors to have their contributions tallied. There is also status within social networks attached to one’s tier of giving. The arrangement allows donors to give directly to DMFI, which is required to file disclosures naming its donors, without AIPAC’s fingerprints.
...
In the past, AIPAC enjoyed broad bipartisan support in Congress. But as it’s cozied up to the GOP in recent years and taken a harder right-wing stance on Israel policy, reflecting a rightward drift in Israel, more Democrats are cutting ties with the group and tacking further left. AIPAC’s faltering relationship with Democrats was the initial spur for Mellman’s new organization, founded by donors and operatives linked to AIPAC....

https://theintercept.com/2020/02/14/aipac-anti-bernie-sanders-ads-nevada/

See also the Haaretz article:

AIPAC Must Stop Bernie Sanders – at All Costs
'Never Bernie' AIPAC now sounds a lot like a pro-Trump caucus, not a bipartisan pro-Israel lobby. But it has no choice

....
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-aipac-must-stop-bernie-sanders-...

It's interesting they are not, yet, been playing up the Israel lobby's standard "antisemitism" smear which usually targets those who don't fully endorse Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palistine. It should be noted that targeted Jews such as Sanders have never been immune to the catcalls of antisemitism since the standard backdoor smear in that case is say they are "self-hating Jews", ie antisemitic

The strategy of avoiding that line of attack with Sanders, while pouring huge amounts of money into attacking him makes perfect sense. Attacking a high profile Jewish candidate with "antisemitism" is likely to draw more attention of people into the massive role of the foreign state Israel in US politics, and the irrational but almost always successful "antisemitism" smear of people of conscience.

It’s Time For AIPAC To Register As A Foreign Agent
M.J. Rosenberg March 2, 2018

https://forward.com/opinion/395676/its-time-for-aipac-to-register-as-a-f...

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Here's an interesting poll from YouGov, which shows Sanders defeating each of his Democratic rivals one on one, with only Biden and Warren even making it close.

Sean in Ottawa

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Here's an interesting poll from YouGov, which shows Sanders defeating each of his Democratic rivals one on one, with only Biden and Warren even making it close.

this is interesting -- I was trying to find something like this a few days ago to see how the field might winnow down.

NorthReport

Sanders is even leading in Massachusetts Warren's home state, not by much, but leading nevertheless.

Sean in Ottawa

I suspect that Sanders is past the most dangerous threats to his nomination. He now has to also look to the general election as well as to winning the nomination. It will be a tight election and is choice of running mate is going to be critical. I would think he has been thinking of this for some time.

NorthReport
contrarianna

NorthReport wrote:

Sanders told Russia is trying to help his campaign

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/21/politics/bernie-sanders-russia-election-interference/index.html

 Of course. The obvious as I stated earlier in this thread: in the event Sanders gained any traction, he would be smeared as "Russia's candidate" as one of the main attack vectors of security state and compilcit media; bipartisan establishment politicians will chime in, and many "progressives" fed on years of Russiagate will respond in Pavlovian fashion.

Apparent US Intel Meddling in US Election With ‘Report’ Russia is Aiding Sanders
February 21, 2020

Without any proof, The New York Times and Washington Post run “Russia helping Sanders” stories, and Sanders responds by bashing Russia, writes Joe Lauria.
By Joe Lauria

With Democratic frontrunner Bernie Sanders spooking the Democratic establishment, The Washington Post Friday reported damaging information from intelligence sources against Sanders by saying that Russia is trying to help his campaign.

If the story is true and if intelligence agencies are truly committed to protecting U.S. citizens, the Sanders campaign would have been quietly informed and shown evidence to back up the claims.

Instead the story wound up on the front page of the Post, “according to people familiar with the matter.” Zero evidence was produced to back up the intelligence agencies’ assertion.

“It is not clear what form that Russian assistance has taken,” the Post reported. That would tell any traditional news editor that there was no story until it is known.

Instead major U.S. media are again playing the role of laundering totally unverified “information” just because it comes from an intelligence source. Reporting such assertions without proof amounts to an abdication of journalistic responsibility. It shows total trust in U.S. intelligence despite decades of deception and skullduggery from these agencies.

Centrist Democratic Party leaders have expressed extreme unease with Sanders leading the Democratic pack. Politico reported Friday that former New York Mayor Mike Bloomberg’s entry into the race is explicitly to stop Sanders from winning on the first ballot at the party convention....

https://consortiumnews.com/2020/02/21/apparent-us-intel-meddling-in-us-e...

 

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