What is it going to take to get rid of guns in Canada?
What a tragedy unfolding today in Nova Scotia. Apparently the shooter disguised himself as a police officer with a car disguised as a police vehicle.
At least 13 people dead after N.S. gunman's rampage, and police say toll could grow
Police confirmed gunman has died and identified RCMP officer who was killed
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/rcmp-weapon-lockdown-portapique-1.5537598
Portapique shooting rampage leaves at least 17 dead, including RCMP officer and suspected killer
First coronavirus and now this. Condolences to all Nova Scotians., all Canadians for that matter, affected by this gun tragedy.
The shooter owned 5 or 6 properties in Nova Scotia
Trudeau reiterates committment to gun control but if we had effective gun control in Canada now this tragedy might never have happened How many more events like this slaughter do we need? WTF are we waiting for!
I agree with the need for more gun control and I also sense a pattern of violence against women being a triggering factor. Current gun laws don't capture the harm people who are considered upstanding citizens can cause if they have some underlying, simmering hatred. But this crime also had the horrific premeditated aspect of impersonating an RCMP officer. So many of the random victims were left so vulnerable.
Just like COVID-19 is an emergency so is the slaughter of Nova Scotians
Trudeau needs to move on gun control now and I wish he would table legislation this week
Heart is breaking for Nova Scotia.
The worst masscare in Canadian history was the Cypress Hills massacre in Saskatchewan.
Heart is breaking for Nova Scotia.
The worst masscare in Canadian history was the Cypress Hills massacre in Saskatchewan.
I think with the new body count he has killed 23 so it is sadly more people than Cypress Hills.
You may be correct.
Heart is breaking for Nova Scotia.
The worst masscare in Canadian history was the Cypress Hills massacre in Saskatchewan.
Just wondering, no greater massacres of Indigenous people here?
Acadians were also massacred during the Grand dérangement, but Canada as such didn't exist back then.
Not that such historical events would make this any less horrific.
Good point lagatta4
'Suspect in Shooting With Multiple Victims Now in Custody - RCMP' (Sunday, April 19, 2020)
"Police have taken a suspect into custody after an hours-long active shooter investigation in Nova-Scotia. Police say there are multiple victims."
Lack of Emergency Alert During NS Shooting Rampage Questioned
"I would not have let my wife leave' - a grieving husband is questioning why an emergency alert wasn't sent out when a gunman went on a killing rampage this weekend in Nova Scotia."
Clinton Ellison Describes 'Nightmare Through Hell' When His Brother Carrie was Killed in Nova Scotia Massacre
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1728141379866/
"...To Serve and Protect?"
We now have an emergency notification system set up in BC which is a cell phone alert, for things such as earthquakes, etc. Apparently Nova Scotia has a similiar type process, which the RCMP could have used to alert Nova Scotians for situations such as they encountered last weekend. Even the US Consulate alerted US citizens in Nova Scotia by Email. As not enough people use it, twitter is not the appropriate communication tool.
May there be healing for the people of Portpique-and may the healing be achieved through a commitment on the part of society to make sure massacres like this never occur again.
Just wondering, no greater massacres of Indigenous people here?
Acadians were also massacred during the Grand dérangement, but Canada as such didn't exist back then.
Not that such historical events would make this any less horrific.
I am not sure about the numbers massacred during the Grand Derangement but that was not the defining characteristic. Like Roma going to the concentration camps most Acadians went peacefully onto the ships that scattered them across the both sides of the Atlantic. The Wiki site NR posted has no references from that era only from the earlier decades.
Kropotkin1951, the Acadians scarely went peacefully. Here is a partial description. Some also fled by land to Quebec, and others hid in the woods, where they were assisted by Miꞌgmaq in the area.
Soldiers rounding up terrified civilians, expelling them from their land, burning their homes and crops ‒ it sounds like a 20th century nightmare in one of the world's trouble spots, but it describes a scene from Canada's early history, the Deportation of the Acadians.
…
It was a New Englander, Charles Morris, who devised the plan to surround the Acadian churches on a Sunday morning, capture as many men as possible, breach the dykes and burn the houses and crops. When the men refused to go, the soldiers threatened their families with bayonets. They went reluctantly, praying, singing and crying. By the fall of 1755 some 1,100 Acadians were aboard transports for South Carolina, Georgia and Pennsylvania.
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/the-deportation-of-the-acadians-feature
So sad the people of Nova Scotia weren't better armed to be able to properly deal with this.
I'm hesitant as to what the response from authoritarian gun control advocates would be if this was a real cop.
Just suck it up civilian you must be at the mercy of the authorities, here's some paper freedom.
Go enjoy it, maybe burn it for warmth amid a collapsing economy.
Kropotkin1951, the Acadians scarely went peacefully. Here is a partial description. Some also fled by land to Quebec, and others hid in the woods, where they were assisted by Miꞌgmaq in the area.
Sorry if I implied that this applied to all Acadians. In fact Beausoleil is one of my favourite historic figures. I have looked at some of my ancestors in that era since I am an eleventh generation Acadian on my mothers. Some from that era died in France others lived and died in what is now New Brunswick. I know about them because they left ancestors unlike those that died.
My understanding is that many Acadians fought on the Plains of Abraham and some of their descendants fought at the Battle of Batoche since that community had many people of Acadian descent.
So sad the people of Nova Scotia weren't better armed to be able to properly deal with this.
I'm hesitant as to what the response from authoritarian gun control advocates would be if this was a real cop.Just suck it up civilian you must be at the mercy of the authorities, here's some paper freedom.
Go enjoy it, maybe burn it for warmth amid a collapsing economy.
They didn't have gun control laws in 18th Century Acadia, for god's sakes. Acadians had as many firearms as anybody else.
Yes Travissmith all of us would far prefer to be at the mercy of right wing assholes armed to the teeth without any training in responding to emergencies. Personally, I don't want you in my neighbourhood with a gun, and that's for fucking sure.
Yes Travissmith all of us would far prefer to be at the mercy of right wing assholes armed to the teeth without any training in responding to emergencies. Personally, I don't want you in my neighbourhood with a gun, and that's for fucking sure.
there was a scathing interview regarding the rcmp's handling of the situation in nova scotia on today's current.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-april-22-2020-1.5540906
same guy, i think a different interview on maritime cbc's show with jeff douglas. i heard parts of both interviews.
i didn't catch the fellow's name, he's apparently been on this for awhile. "i fear the shooter probably read my book, i've been pointing out all these issues for years".
the rcmp sent out a twitter alert, but didn't utilize the province's cellphone alert system - on which n.s. had just sent out a covid alert on friday. despite being prompted by the standing-by provincial alert system staff, rcmp were "preparing their message", 13 hours in, when the guy was finally stopped.
the insinuation being, which i don't fully understand, was that the rcmp was trying to do some sort of publicity control about the fact that a fake cop was driving a fake car and wrecking havoc for hour upon hour upon hour.
ie, twitter being the less-effective communication tool, yet still providing a "we sent out an alert" cover.
plus, how they handled the actual case. the guy being interviewed quoted someone "close to the ground" - i believe he was referring to an officer - at enfield saying it was a "shitshow".
the shooter exploited obvious, glaring, known breaches (you can buy an actual uniform easy, etc) and the armoured cars and helicopters and god knows what other assetts were chasing their tails for 13 hours.
the whole thing is just so fucked up.
Yes Travissmith all of us would far prefer to be at the mercy of right wing assholes armed to the teeth without any training in responding to emergencies. Personally, I don't want you in my neighbourhood with a gun, and that's for fucking sure.
Why not make firearms education part of high school then?
For what purpose? Most of our children live in cities so WTF would they ever need a firearm for?
Yes Travissmith all of us would far prefer to be at the mercy of right wing assholes armed to the teeth without any training in responding to emergencies. Personally, I don't want you in my neighbourhood with a gun, and that's for fucking sure.
Why not make firearms education part of high school then?For what purpose? Most of our children live in cities so WTF would they ever need a firearm for?
Have fun being powerless against tyranny then..
sitting in your home with a gun might stop an intruder, but it won't help you much with tyranny; you're outgunned, period.
so grow up and put your energy into something actually usefull, if you care about anti-tyranny so much.
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yeah, shitshow.
https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/provincial/sirt-investigating-rcm...
LOWER ONSLOW, N.S. —
The Onslow Belmont Fire Brigade hall was being used as a registration centre for evacuees from the Portapique Beach area Sunday morning when RCMP officers arrived on scene and opened fire.
“The hall was used to provide a place where residents could come take a break, register and get hotel and Red Cross information,” the brigade says in a Facebook posting, which has since been removed.
“We can confirm that around 10:30 a.m. there was gunfire at our hall and the gunfire caused considerable damage to our property, including taking one of our trucks out of service,” the posting said.
Fire Chief Greg Muise bullet damage to one fender, the engine block and the windshield was destroyed.
The hall was being used in co-ordination with the Emergency Management Office, which had members on scene. An RCMP officer and cruiser were staged on the property to assist with evacuee registration and several other people were also on scene.
“Our video surveillance does not capture the shooters but does show two people who appear to be RCMP officers enter our property, one to the front and one to the rear,” the posting continues. "One of these people enters our hall at the front but no one who is sheltered inside the hall spoke with the people/person resembling the RCMP officer so we (cannot) confirm why they were there. No one identified themselves as an RCMP officer. They left our property shortly after the gunfire. We have since been contacted by SIRT (the Serious Incident Response Team) and are co-operating with their ongoing investigation. Fortunately no one was physically injured.”
Joy McCabe, who lives directly beside the firehall, was looking out her kitchen window while cooking breakfast when an RCMP vehicle suddenly stopped in the middle of road. She said two officers got out and both immediately began firing multiple rounds.
https://www.google.com/search?q=RCMP+shootout+leaves+Onslow+woman+in+fri...
Nova Scotia has a population under a million. My daughter's inlaws live in Truro where her partner was raised. The family knows three of the victims through church and work. Many of the people killed were active in the community.
I can't watch the news.
Have fun being powerless against tyranny then..
sitting in your home with a gun might stop an intruder, but it won't help you much with tyranny; you're outgunned, period.
so grow up and put your energy into something actually usefull, if you care about anti-tyranny so much.
Tighter gun controls are the best tribute to Nova Scotia's victims
Apparently the shooting was connected to another high-profile Nova Scotia tragedy:
As the names of the victims of Nova Scotia's mass shooting started to be made public, there was one that stood out to Leah Parsons — Const. Heidi Stevenson.
"I was kind of hoping it wasn't her because she's just a sweet, sweet soul," said Parsons.
Stevenson was one of the 22 people killed over the weekend during a 13-hour rampage by a gunman through central Nova Scotia.
But it was another 911 call seven years earlier that brought Stevenson and Parsons together.
Stevenson was the officer that showed up after Parsons called for help the night her daughter Rehtaeh, 17, attempted suicide on April 4, 2013.
...
Parsons feels Stevenson went well beyond what her police duties required in order to support her and her family.
It's surprising praise considering that at the time Parsons had little confidence in police or the justice system, and felt they had failed her daughter after she was sexually assaulted.
She said Stevenson's actions helped restore her faith in the police.
I see we jumped to "more gun control!" before the bodies were counted.
Tighter gun controls are the best tribute to Nova Scotia's victims
Are they?
The shooter did not have a gun licence and obtained the rifle and shotgun he used illegally. It's looking like from the US.
The "Canadian" pistol that he obtained appears to be from the dead RCMP officer.
Please eplain how tighter Canadian gun controls would have prevented the shooter from using illegally obtained firearms from the US and stealing a police officers handgun.
Questions for "travissmith"-
1) What happened in Nova Scotia was a massacre by an individual; it had nothing to do with "tyranny".
2) In an age where most governments have massive military stockpiles, individual gun ownership is useless in fighting "tyranny".
3) One of the people killed in the massacre was an armed RCMP officer, so there is no evidence that anyone would have been spared or saved if there had been more widespread individual gun ownership. The shootings were ambushes and even if all the victims had been carrying concealed, they'd have had little if any chance to defend themselves.
4) What, in anything anybody might have posted in response to you, could possibly have equated to denying that "regular people have achieved much"?
5) In what universe is it cowardice simply to reject the idea that gun ownership is the key to liberty? And who are you to call anybody a coward, travis?
I can see it now :)
Fixed it. Had some stuff, meant to cancel the post, but somehow it originally posted without text. Thanks for the heads-up, though.
Never been a big believer in that whole protection against tyranny thing (we should trust the government, right?).
Never been a big believer in that whole protection against tyranny thing (we should trust the government, right?).
The conundrum is hard to get over. I don't trust the government and its paramilitary RCMP to act in anything but the interests of the rich and powerful. But I would not want to replace that with gangs of roaming vigilantes some of who think the apocalypse is neigh and thus any actions they take are allowable.
We need far better training for our police officers than what they get from places like the Justice Institute in BC. IMO that requires a government that will allow greater civilian oversight over policing matters and I don't see that happening any time soon.
Never been a big believer in that whole protection against tyranny thing (we should trust the government, right?).
The problem with the whole "protection against tyranny" canard-nobody here is PRO-tyranny, btw-is that most of the people who use that word think that labour law, antidiscrimination statutes, single-payer healthcare and recognition of the need to transition to an economy not based mainly on resource extraction represent "tyranny"-while banning Muslim women from voluntarily wearing a hijab, barring same-sex marriage, or restricting the right to protest somehow DON'T.
"protection against tyranny" doesn't come up that often in Canada.
What about calling for stricter gun control in Canada when the gunman didn't have a license and got a hold of his guns illegally, looking like from the US.
What kind of gun control aimed against law abiding Canadains will prevent a murderer without a license from getting guns from the US?
A ban on guns that are coloured black? Reduce 5 round magazines to 3 rounds? Central storage?
Gun control is very simple
Humans do not have the capacity to conduct themselves appropriately with weapons and weapons are no longer required to put food on the table so they need to be take away from us
And police weapons need to be kept at the station and only taken out under very exceptional circumstances
That's fair. Banning all guns makes more sense then the stupid approach our government is trying.
Would we have police sitting at the station waiting to respond to an emergency or would they have to drive back to the station to sign out a gun if they needed one?
When you say we no longer need firearms to put food on the table does that mean First Nations and other Canadians living up north and in remote wilderness? I'm sure you don't want to take guns away from First Nations who use them for food or defense against polar bears. Do you?
The conundrum is hard to get over. I don't trust the government and its paramilitary RCMP to act in anything but the interests of the rich and powerful. But I would not want to replace that with gangs of roaming vigilantes some of who think the apocalypse is neigh and thus any actions they take are allowable.
What we're seeing now is police who are making things up as they go.
The conundrum is hard to get over. I don't trust the government and its paramilitary RCMP to act in anything but the interests of the rich and powerful. But I would not want to replace that with gangs of roaming vigilantes some of who think the apocalypse is neigh and thus any actions they take are allowable.
What we're seeing now is police who are making things up as they go.
The RCMP both in BC and in New Brunswick has shown that it is very good at attacking encampments of unarmed peaceful protestors on their own unceded territories. They keep getting killed when they go up against people with weapons and intent to kill. I can only conclude that they only train for the former not the later.
I agree this is not about gun control since like most weapons in Canada they were imported from the cesspool to the south of us. This is about violence against women and how the deeply misogynist RCMP responds to it.
Questions for "travissmith"-
1) What happened in Nova Scotia was a massacre by an individual; it had nothing to do with "tyranny".
2) In an age where most governments have massive military stockpiles, individual gun ownership is useless in fighting "tyranny".
3) One of the people killed in the massacre was an armed RCMP officer, so there is no evidence that anyone would have been spared or saved if there had been more widespread individual gun ownership. The shootings were ambushes and even if all the victims had been carrying concealed, they'd have had little if any chance to defend themselves.
4) What, in anything anybody might have posted in response to you, could possibly have equated to denying that "regular people have achieved much"?
5) In what universe is it cowardice simply to reject the idea that gun ownership is the key to liberty? And who are you to call anybody a coward, travis?
The problem with the whole "protection against tyranny" canard-nobody here is PRO-tyranny, btw-is that most of the people who use that word think that labour law, antidiscrimination statutes, single-payer healthcare and recognition of the need to transition to an economy not based mainly on resource extraction represent "tyranny"-while banning Muslim women from voluntarily wearing a hijab, barring same-sex marriage, or restricting the right to protest somehow DON'T.
Really? I think you're ignoring the myriad other cultures that do respect weapons currently present in Canada.
How about we ban white men from having guns and allow everyone else?
I hope all who hold forth against guns and for peace put their money where their mouths are, and act on these beliefs when it comes to such things as Canada in NATO, our disgusting continuing support for the IDF and Apartheid Israel, or arms sales to Saudi Arabia.
1. Sure but complete disarmament encourages tyranny
2. Defeatist attitude look at Afghanistan, Columbia, Vietnam etc.
3. I don't mean concealed carry, I mean EVERYONE strapped with at least 4-5 MAGS, chest rig, Assault Rifle etc.
4. Your entire attitude that regular people being armed is no defense againt tyranny individual or collective
5. I'm someone with a differing attitude, that's who.
1. The whole tyranny angle is pretty out dated. The whole anti-tyranny thing was from a time when the government was similarly armed to civilians. The size of the military and the weapons they have access to is giant. There's 400 million guns in civilian hands in the US, true, but they're also losing thei rmind because they can't get their hair down or plant grass seeds for a nice lawn. The idea of citizens rising up to defend liberty and freedom against a tyranical government is for Hollywood.
3. Ever try to sit down and have a meal when you have a chest rig, magazines (and can't forget pouches and your IFAK) with an assault rifle strapped to you? Then people take that stuff off and leave it by their feet and your constantly tripping on it. You would also have people leaving weapons lying around, forgetting them in restraunt bathrooms, people shooting themselves or others by accident in public.
We're a society of copycats. I guarentee when we find out what guns the NS shooter used there will be an increase in sales for those guns, just like we constantly see happen int he US. We don't need a society of people walking around with 6 firearms hanging off them because they want to look like John Wick.
A weapon can only be silenced by a weapon.
The Sikhs seem to manage just fine, some of them don't carry weapons and some of them carry 20.
We don't need cheesecake in society either, instead of portraying this as some universal consensus or preference just admit that you disdain public weaponry for w.e reason.
Also admit that your own disdain means exactly 0 to others and that this is ultimately a struggle determined by power and not reason.
just admit that you disdain public weaponry for w.e reason.
Admit that 100%.
I don't see a requirement or plausable reason to carry weaponry around in public. It's not work the accidental discharges, lost firearms and other problems arising from it.
Also admit that your own disdain means exactly 0 to others and that this is ultimately a struggle determined by power and not reason.
It's politics and emotion that's all. I've repeatedly argued (quich successfully I think) how stupid most of our gun control laws are which are based on emotion, conjecture and appeasing interest groups. Not "evidence based" as the PM loves to say.
So I wish someone would change the title of this thread so we can talk about misogyny and other important issues instead of fucking gun control.
This song came across my FB feed and it moved me. Remember this conversation should be about this young woman and other victims and how to end the misogynist culture that gives rise to these women haters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywQoD8xtanw&list=LLGhMmnhlCEhybKqymjooIG...
Questions for "travissmith"-
1) What happened in Nova Scotia was a massacre by an individual; it had nothing to do with "tyranny".
2) In an age where most governments have massive military stockpiles, individual gun ownership is useless in fighting "tyranny".
3) One of the people killed in the massacre was an armed RCMP officer, so there is no evidence that anyone would have been spared or saved if there had been more widespread individual gun ownership. The shootings were ambushes and even if all the victims had been carrying concealed, they'd have had little if any chance to defend themselves.
4) What, in anything anybody might have posted in response to you, could possibly have equated to denying that "regular people have achieved much"?
5) In what universe is it cowardice simply to reject the idea that gun ownership is the key to liberty? And who are you to call anybody a coward, travis?
1. Sure but complete disarmament encourages tyranny
2. Defeatist attitude look at Afghanistan, Columbia, Vietnam etc.
3. I don't mean concealed carry, I mean EVERYONE strapped with at least 4-5 MAGS, chest rig, Assault Rifle etc.
4. Your entire attitude that regular people being armed is no defense againt tyranny individual or collective
5. I'm someone with a differing attitude, that's who.
The problem with the whole "protection against tyranny" canard-nobody here is PRO-tyranny, btw-is that most of the people who use that word think that labour law, antidiscrimination statutes, single-payer healthcare and recognition of the need to transition to an economy not based mainly on resource extraction represent "tyranny"-while banning Muslim women from voluntarily wearing a hijab, barring same-sex marriage, or restricting the right to protest somehow DON'T.Really? I think you're ignoring the myriad other cultures that do respect weapons currently present in Canada.
How about we ban white men from having guns and allow everyone else?
There is something to that last idea.
If you are willing to share this...which culture do you identify with? If you would be willing to reveal that-and I totally respect it if you don't-it would significantly affect how people would respond to what you are saying on this subject.
So I wish someone would change the title of this thread so we can talk about misogyny and other important issues instead of fucking gun control.
This song came across my FB feed and it moved me. Remember this conversation should be about this young woman and other victims and how to end the misogynist culture that gives rise to these women haters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywQoD8xtanw&list=LLGhMmnhlCEhybKqymjooIG...
i second changing the thread title; gun control is a distracting lower subset of this tragedy, as was explained upthread.
