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Justin Trudeau uses Order in Council to ban semi automatic firearms
Wed, 2020-05-06 22:24
#1
Misfit
Justin Trudeau uses Order in Council to ban semi automatic firearms
Fri, 2020-05-08 09:32
#2
The petition against the Prime Minister's shady (and I say undemocratic) gun ban has 115,000 signatures in 2 days, it's set to run for 4 months and is well on the way to being Canada's largest signed petition.
https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-2574
[Implementing electoral reform was the largest petition at 130,452 signers, sponsored by NDP MP Nathan Cullen]
Speaking about the recent mass shooting and the Liberals actions there after, the Prime Minister used this horrible attack and the emotions surrounding it to smash through an order in council in a minority government during a pandemic with bogus "scientific evidence". He barely touched on the subject of violence against women and tried to score political points by banning a few styles of guns.
In Canada there is no correlation between the type of firearm someone uses and violence against women.
In Canada there is no correlation between the type of firearm someone uses during mass shootings.
The poster child gun that the Liberals use for their gun bans, the AR15. "Scientific Evidence" This gun has been used in 1 shooting in Canada in 40 years (maybe even closer to 60). The guns the Liberals banned were based on emotion and politicing and nothing more. The Liberals are also spending double on banning guns from law abiding Canadians than they are combatting smuggling guns, where the majoirty of crime guns come from.
Assault Weapon is adisingenuousness term. There is no definition on what an assault weapon actually is and it plays to emotion.
There is a huge disconnect in this country when it comes to the police and violent offenders and how they can stay under the radar for so long, up to and including buying firearms or police uniforms.
During attacks we often hear about how the offender is "known to the police" yet their victims live in fear hiding beind a piece of paper aka retsraining order. Constant examples of violent people slipping through the cracks time after time. We could spend hundreds of millions of dollars on better border security and a better system for the police to deal with violent Canadians (firearms or not) but instead we're destroying a sport who's largest growing demographic is women.
The Prime Minister made the April 18/19 attack about guns and politics and not women.
The same Prime Minister who has sexually assaulted a woman and tried to intimidate and coearse the Attorney General among his other "harmless mistakes".
The Prime Minister tells us the guns he banned cannot be used for hunting but then says some people can still use them for hunting for 2 years (and if we're being honest, longer).
The Prime Minister tells us the guns he banned are too dangerous for people to keep at home. But then he is going to allow these guns to stay in peoples possession for at least 2 years. If they're grandfathered then gun owners can keep these guns indefinitely. How does that make sense? It does if the reason your banning guns is for votes and not actually protecting Canadians or addressing violence against women.
Fri, 2020-05-08 02:05
#3
paladin1, thanks for moving your gun comments over here from the nova scotia mass shooting thread.
in threads as in rooms, the problem is, once folks start pulling out guns, it becomes the focal point and swamps everything else. it just does.
i often disagree with your thrust, and sometimes your opinions; but conversely you put effort and thought into your posts and there are times that you bring a needed diversity and knowledge to the babble table.
In Canada there is no correlation between the type of firearm someone uses and violence against women.
In Canada there is no correlation between the type of firearm someone uses during mass shootings.
The poster child gun that the Liberals use for their gun bans, the AR15. "Scientific Evidence" This gun has been used in 1 shooting in Canada in 40 years (maybe even closer to 60). The guns the Liberals banned were based on emotion and politicing and nothing more. The Liberals are also spending double on banning guns from law abiding Canadians than they are combatting smuggling guns, where the majoirty of crime guns come from.
Assault Weapon is adisingenuousness term. There is no definition on what an assault weapon actually is and it plays to emotion.
no correlation. no definition. those are pretty sweeping statements, and i think they weaken your other points.
i don't imagine there's many militaries or mass shooters kicking in doors carrying bolt-action single shot 22's.
The Prime Minister tells us the guns he banned are cannot be used for hunting but then says some people can still use them for hunting for 2 years (and if we're being honest, longer).
The Prime Minister tells us the guns he banned are too dangerous for people to keep at home. But then he is going to allow these guns to stay in peoples possession for at least 2 years. If they're grandfathered then gun owners can keep these guns indefinitely. How does that make sense? It does if the reason your banning guns is for votes and not actually protecting Canadians or addressing violence against women.
to be fair, phase-outs are a pretty standard part of large-scale shifts. this phase-out seems particularily full of holes; the standard liberal posture of standing for everything and nothing.
Fri, 2020-05-08 02:32
#4
I agree, good post Paladin1.
Sat, 2020-05-09 10:05
#5
An Assault RIfle is a select-fire (full & semi automatic), box magazine fed weapon firing an intermediate calibre cartridge effective out to 300m. Literal US military definition, therefore an ARmalite-15 which cannot fire in fully automatic is NOT an assault rifle.
Furthermore, an intermediate cartridge is between a pistol and rifle cartridge usually a necked down rifle round such as the 7.62x39mm compared to the 7.62x51mm. Technically, the 5.56x45mm of the AR-15 is a small calibre high velocity cartridge.
In the USA, less people are killed by rifles than by common assault using bodily implements (fists and feet).
There's news coming out now that shotguns have been banned.
Yes, Canada has had bi-partisan support for gun control since Confederation.
No, I will not support any of it due to religion, culture & duty.
Fact is, by reducing penalties for illegal possession Trudeau is definititely shifting it in one direction.
Gun control makes gun ownership harder for poor people and people of colour.
These are the very people most vulnerable to both crime and authority figures.
Gun control policies are therefore elitist and no progressive person can support them.
Bye.
Sat, 2020-05-09 11:34
#6
TLDR: guns used for hunting are more dangerous than "assault weapons" and the Government is being shady.
paladin1, thanks for moving your gun comments over here from the nova scotia mass shooting thread.
You're welcome.
i often disagree with your thrust, and sometimes your opinions; but conversely you put effort and thought into your posts and there are times that you bring a needed diversity and knowledge to the babble table.
Thanks! It's cool we all have our little niches we can offer insight to.
no correlation. no definition. those are pretty sweeping statements, and i think they weaken your other points.
I'll do my best not to be verbose. I think they're quite accurate and quite relative. Correlation. When we look at shootings in Canada what are we really looking at?
Mass shootings. Domestic Violence. Gang shootings.
Gangs are easy. Handguns because they can conceal them from the police.
Domestic violence? An abuser is going to use whatever they have access to.
Mass shootings. The goverment tries to make a correlation between mass shootings and the types of guns they use. When you look at a list of shootings in Canada all firearms are equally represented. Handguns, hunting (looking) firearms and military (looking) firearms. In many cases the army looking guns are just hunting guns with accessories. (I'll add a picture or two at the end to highlight what I mean).
Availability seems to be the deciding factor in firearms used for shootings. Why has only 1 AR15 been used for a murder in Canada in 40 years? A guess, they're hard as hell to get. Owners are heavily vetted and someones going to use whatever they can access (I'm surprised a AR15s haven't been used more simply because of number of owners). Actual assault rifles have been banned in Canada since the 70's.
i don't imagine there's many militaries or mass shooters kicking in doors carrying bolt-action single shot 22's.
Great point. Soldiers kicking in a door with a bolt action single shot 22 wouldn't make sense. That doesn't mean hunting and plinking guns are harmless.
On June 2nd 2010, Derrick Bird (UK) killed 12 people and injured 11 others before killing himself. He used a double barrel shotgun and bolt action 22. Bird and squirrel hunting guns.
The military person kicking in the door in your example is probably also going to have a pump-action shotgun. Probably the remington 870 which is the biggest selling hunting shotgun in North America. The sniper covering them? a .308 caliber rifle which is for all intents and purposes, identical to a hunting rifle. In the case of the Remington 700, the most popular hunting rifle in North America, it's also the most popular sniper rifle for military and police.
Assault rifles were designed for a war zone in WW2. When taken out of a military environment they act like any other firearm in someones hands. They can be shot quicker that's true, but they'll be less accurate and less powerful than guns with heavier bullets. The reliability of these guns are very finicky too. Just a couple years ago someone in Canada using a military themed/looking weapon jammed after the first shot, he then switched to a handgun. We keep hearing military style but 99% of them would never be considered for military use. They're dressed up target rifles.
There is no actual definition for an assault weapon. It's is used for the emotional effect because it sounds dangerous and agressive. The types of guns that Liberals generally call assault weapons usually have a bullet that's too light/lacks the energy to hunt 150lb deer. Yet they insinuate hunting rifles are safer or somehow less deadly? These hunting rifles are used to kill 600 pound bears and 1300 pound moose. Not that I want to be shot, but if I'm going to be shot with something I would rather it be with a gun that's too weak to kill a 150 pound deer and not something that kills 1300 pound monsters. Instead of playing games going after a handful of popular guns we should keep guns out of the hands of violent people including people with a history of domestic violence. We need a better system and we need to put more money and effort into illegal smuggling.
to be fair, phase-outs are a pretty standard part of large-scale shifts. this phase-out seems particularily full of holes; the standard liberal posture of standing for everything and nothing
I'm biased obviously. I don't hunt but I'm a collector, target shooter, 3 gun sport shooter and long range shooter. I don't expect anyone to care that I'll be out of pocket thousands of dollars (in accessories alone) and way more if there is no buy back. That's me, who cares.
The Liberals defended themselves about their SNC behavior "because of the jobs". This gun ban is going to cost over 30,000 jobs and it's an 8 billion dollar industry. But it's a hell of an awesome time to do it. Those 30,000 jobs are insignificant sounding when mixed with the millions of unemployed from Covid19. Who cares about an 8 billion dollar industry when the government is spending millions and billions on Covid19? 2000-4000 businesses might close? Another casualty of 2020 and lost amid all the other companies and stories closing.
Some people are going to say good, ban all guns. And if that's how you feel then that's how you feel. What should really upset people besides the loss of jobs and money from the industry, is how the government is going about doing this. It's not democratic. They're circumventing parlimentary debate. They're manipulating states, manipulating the emotions of a mass shooting and taking advantage of the ongoing pandemic. It's only about guns now who cares. Next time it could be about something closer to home for others.
Sat, 2020-05-09 21:14
#7
the ar15 can be mod'ed to full auto fairly easily, as i understand.
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30 000 jobs and 8billion? yeah, that would've build a lot of them ventilators everyone's on about, wouldn't it?
your choice of where you spend your money feeds that death industry, and all the pollution and violence and self-delusion and unfairly-leveraged power that goes with it.
vs feeding other things. it's a choice.
long guns are legitimate tools for some rural situations, and in these times, some level of way-better trained and reined police and national defensive military is a practical hedge.
beyond that? stop wasting humanity's ingenuity and resources on death-sticks. and accessories. there's important work to be done.
Sun, 2020-05-10 12:02
#8
death-sticks. and accessories.
LOL.
Sun, 2020-05-10 12:18
#9
i find lift-off much easier without the baggage.
Sun, 2020-05-10 12:20
#10
the ar15 can be mod'ed to full auto fairly easily, as i understand.
No it can't.
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30 000 jobs and 8billion? yeah, that would've build a lot of them ventilators everyone's on about, wouldn't it?
For sure I agree. 8 billion dollars is a lot of money that the economy will be losing out on and that can make a hell of a lot of N95 masks. You could buy 2,025,316,455 N95 masks. And you can't forget how much money and taxes 30,000 jobs puts in the economy.
your choice of where you spend your money feeds that death industry, and all the pollution and violence and self-delusion and unfairly-leveraged power that goes with it.
Sure isn't a death industry iup here. The Governor General in Canada has killed as many people as the AR15 has killed in Canada.
long guns are legitimate tools for some rural situations, and in these times, some level of way-better trained and reined police and national defensive military is a practical hedge.
Not following sorry.
beyond that? stop wasting humanity's ingenuity and resources on death-sticks. and accessories. there's important work to be done.
Assault Rifles, Assault Weapons, Military Style Weapons, Military Grade. Buzzwords to pluck at emotional heart strings and feed off peoples fear.
Only 2 of the 15 recently banned firearms can be actually considered militray style. The Ar15 which I've pointed out has been been used in 1 shooting in Canada in 40 years and the second, the XCR, which was a canceled upgrade sort of project for the AR15. The XCR has been in Canada for 14 years and has been used in 0 shootings.
30 thousand jobs lost and the economical fallout from those lost jobs, 8 billion dollars in industry revenue lost, hunsdreds of millions if not another billion plus for a buy back program, a popular sport destroyed.
Money well wasted.
Thu, 2020-05-14 16:40
#11
Using a gun has nothing in common with "flying". No one can be filled with a feeling of freedom through the act of killing someone else. And it is chilling and disgusting that you would post an image of a child being handed an implement of death, singh.
Thu, 2020-05-14 16:45
#12
Is the Prime Minister ordering an investigation in to why this murderer was reported to the RCMP for domestic abuse (assault) and illegal weapons but it was ignored?
Banning every single gun in Canada wouldn't have saved any lives in Nova Scotia but the police dealing with this guy and his illegal weapons more than likely would have.