Coronavirus: what Canadians need to know

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Michael Moriarity wrote:

There have been many similar examples of church based super spreading. Here is a very recent one: Oregon’s biggest coronavirus outbreak yet is linked to Union County church, state officials confirm

How many people in the United States died from traffic accidents either on their way to or from church during the same period? Lots of people are permanently disabled or killed from car crashes, yet nobody is scared of driving anywhere.

Posts like this are a better fit for the comment section at Breitbart than a forum like babble.

It's not obvious to me. If the answer is that easy, you should have no problem articulating it. But that's the problem with the left these days. Rather than speaking for average people and engaging in the conversation, they prefer to have their orthodxy and anyone who disagrees with them is Adolf Hitler. You think that's a winning approach to politics?

This has nothing to do with "speaking for average people". It is a discussion about which social tactics will minimize the damage caused by covid19. Of course, there are value judgments involved in deciding what "minimizing damage" means. For example, is avoiding a 10,000 point drop in the Dow Jones Average worth 1,000,000 poor Americans' lives?

Also, I didn't compare anyone to Hitler. I compared your post to the bullshit one finds on hardcore right wing comment sections, and it fits right in with the illogical ideas found in such places.

On the main point, you made an analogy between death and injuries from automobile accidents, and infections resulting from people holding religious (or other) meetings in which many people are together in an enclosed space, and engage in singing or other mass vocalizations which spray virus laden droplets within a radius of several meters.

The main reason this analogy is useless is that automobile accidents do not physically harm anyone other than those who are directly involved. They cannot result in sickness and death of others who are not even present, weeks after the event. Meetings of many people in enclosed spaces, especially if they are all singing (as in church) or yelling (as at a MAGA rally), are absolutely known to result in many infections if some of the participants happen to be spreading the virus.

To bring it right down to the personal, I have tried various online calculators which supposedly determine the risk of death if a person gets covid19. Based on my age, gender, and medical history, they predict that I have a 60% to 80% chance of dying if I am infected. I know, big deal, I'm an old man who has already had a heart attack, and lived more than I deserve.

But still, I am not yet ready to die unless I have no choice, and someone who caught the virus at a high risk religious or other gathering could buy their groceries in the same Freshco (Sobey's cheapo outlet) as I do. Such a person could cough all over the raisin bran box or the orange juice bottle 5 minutes before I buy it, and if I don't sanitize my hands just right, I could become part of the death count in a week or 3.

There seems to me no way that such a person would be likely to kill me in an auto accident. That whole idea is just irrelevant noise, often called "muddying the waters". And that is all your posts on this topic are doing.

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Regardless of how much we have clashed on this topic, I think we would at least agree that much more attention should be paid to systemic failures that allowed covid to spread but weren't addressed because it wasn't profitable?

On this particular thing, I agree with you. On the other hand, I consider all your words about how many deaths social distancing has caused, how many deaths auto accidents cause, and similar red herrings, to be seriously in error. They are also examples of a technique known as the Gish gallop. This is a method of frustrating rather than advancing the discussion by switching subjects rapidly and cramming a maximum number of bogus arguments into a minimum number of words. This can make comprehensive replies prohibitively difficult and time consuming.

Covid-19 has become one of the biggest killers of 2020

This year its global toll exceeds that of breast cancer or malaria

epaulo13 wrote:

Covid-19 has become one of the biggest killers of 2020

This year its global toll exceeds that of breast cancer or malaria

interesting that nobody died of the flu; or war, poverty, displacement, or pollution.

Coronavirus Cases Surging in U.S. and Around the World

The World Health Organization warned that “the world is in a new and dangerous phase” of the coronavirus pandemic. Over 183,000 new cases were reported around the world on Sunday in the biggest single-day increase to date. Brazil, which recently surged past 1 million coronavirus cases, had the highest daily total, followed by the United States, then India.

Here in the U.S., confirmed coronavirus cases have topped 2.25 million with 120,000 reported deaths. Cases are surging in at least 18 states, with young people now seen as driving recent spikes. California reported over 4,500 new cases on Sunday, the highest one-day increase since the pandemic started. Eleven other states also recently reported records in new daily cases. The White House said Sunday it is preparing for a possible new wave in the fall. Echoing the Trump administration’s messaging, the Republican governors of Florida and Texas are blaming spikes in COVID-19 cases on increased testing. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, though, admits there is a surge among young people under 37 and that the age is going down, and also blamed migrant worker communities.

In Northern California, rights groups and the families of prisoners at San Quentin State Prison are sounding the alarm after cases there tripled since the start of the month. Activists who are organizing under the hashtag #StopSanQuentinOutbreak say a May 30 transfer of prisoners from a facility in Chino is likely the reason for the outbreak and that prison staff did not isolate themselves even though prisoners are being quarantined.

In other coronavirus news, China has suspended Tyson chicken imports due to COVID-19 infections among workers.

Latin America Tops 100,000 Coronavirus Deaths as Brazilian President Ordered to Wear Mask in Public

Global confirmed coronavirus cases have topped 9.2 million, with nearly half a million deaths from COVID-19. Latin America’s regional death toll officially surpassed 100,000 Tuesday. In Brazil, a judge has ordered far-right President Jair Bolsonaro to wear a mask in public, or he’ll face a fine of nearly $400 per violation. This comes as Bolsonaro continues to attend massive political rallies across Brazil, which recorded nearly 40,000 new cases Tuesday — the worst infection rate in the world. This comes as Mexican health officials announced a daily record of over 4,500 new coronavirus infections. The European Union is preparing to reopen its borders to travelers from dozens of countries, except for people traveling from the United States, who may be barred due to the country’s high rates of infection. In the Middle East, Saudi Arabia announced it will bar travelers from abroad who were planning to attend the hajj this year amid the pandemic, marking the first time in modern history Muslims from around the world will not be allowed to make the annual pilgrimage to Mecca.

3,000 Pack Indoor Trump Rally in Arizona as COVID-19 Cases Surge to Record High

On Tuesday, President Trump traveled to Arizona, where he toured a section of newly built border wall, claiming the concrete and metal structure had “stopped COVID.” Trump’s claim came as Arizona confirmed 3,600 new coronavirus infections on Tuesday — a daily record. Hospitalizations topped 2,000 — also a record — with intensive care units now at 85% capacity. Trump later held his second campaign event since the start of the pandemic, speaking to 3,000 students in a packed megachurch in Phoenix. Few of the students wore masks, and none of them practiced social distancing, raising fears the Trump rally could be another coronavirus “superspreader” event. During his remarks, President Trump drew cheers when he mocked COVID-19 and repeated a racist nickname for the disease.

President Donald Trump: “Kung flu, yeah. Kung flu.”

On Tuesday, Twitter flagged another Trump tweet for violating its policy prohibiting abusive or violent language, after Trump wrote, “There will never be an 'Autonomous Zone' in Washington, D.C., as long as I’m your President. If they try they will be met with serious force!”

NDPP wrote:

WHO on COVID19 Pandemic

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1276117832791703552

"The COVID19 pandemic is a once-in-a-lifetime event that has shown the world was not as prepared as it should have been. We must all learn the lessons it is teaching us, that we are one humanity, and none of us are safe until all of us are safe."

That is true and that is why I am very concerned about the push to move every aspect of our lives online in response to the pandemic. This trend risks creating the rise of a priviledged class that never has any reason to leave their residences as they do all their work and socializing digitally, and have essential items like food delivered to their doors. Everyone else would be out and about exposed to whatever risks were present and little in the way of protection. One of the reasons that homeless people were taken off the streets and put into empty hotels was to preven covid from spreading amongst a vunlerable population. If the middle class can suddenly go about their day without leaving their homes and not having to worry themselves about getting sick, why will they then care about homeless people?

Coronavirus: UK on course for further 30,000 deaths unless Boris Johnson changes approach, Independent Sage warns

The UK is on course for another 30,000 deaths by the first anniversary of the coronavirus pandemic unless Boris Johnson changes strategy, independent experts are warning.

A sharp drop in infections has already stalled, they say – with Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, having suggested they could stay at around 3,000 a day for nine more months, they pointed out.

“If we carry on with 100 to 150 deaths a day, that’s over 30,000 deaths,” warned Christina Pagel, professor of operational research at University College London.

The professor is a member of the Independent Sage group of scientists, which has sharply criticised the government for lifting lockdown restrictions too early, before Covid-19 has been conquered.

In a new analysis, it said so-called “Super Saturday” on 4 July – when pubs, restaurants and cultural venues can reopen – will arrive before the country is ready for the “risk” it poses.....

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Regardless of how much we have clashed on this topic, I think we would at least agree that much more attention should be paid to systemic failures that allowed covid to spread but weren't addressed because it wasn't profitable?

On this particular thing, I agree with you. On the other hand, I consider all your words about how many deaths social distancing has caused, how many deaths auto accidents cause, and similar red herrings, to be seriously in error. They are also examples of a technique known as the Gish gallop. This is a method of frustrating rather than advancing the discussion by switching subjects rapidly and cramming a maximum number of bogus arguments into a minimum number of words. This can make comprehensive replies prohibitively difficult and time consuming.

I've believed from the start that it was never a simple matter that you could shut everything down and that the virus threat would go away, and that shutting everything down in response to covid would have negative impacts across the board. It astounds me that many of the pro-lockdown people on babble don't seem receptive to that point, nor are they even receptive to the basic idea that we are not all equal in our ability to endure these lockdown measures, especially as they drag on and on.

Pondering wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

  I have never once argued against the covid restrictions from the point of view of stock market numbers. What I am doing is trying to look at the risks of coronavirus alongside other risks to human health, looking at the impact of human health on the restrictions, and trying to see how it all fits into the big picture. I've already mentioned on these boards that the social distancing measures undertaken have already killed more people in Winnipeg and Vancouver due to drug overdoses than were in danger of dying from covid. There are other risk factors from social distancing as well. People are comitting suicide because of the isolation from lockdown. Reduced physical activity is putting people at risk for cardiovascular disease. The stress and anxiety of hearing about covid non-stop in the media is putting people at risk. That's where the big flaw in these covid models becomes evident. People aren't dots that you can put into a model or confine at will. They have independent needs. The fact that the left seems to have bought into the idea that we need to hide from this virus while completely neglecting the other aspects of human health, many of which are directly threatened by social distancing, boggles my mind.

It's not a simple matter of saving lives or not. Coronavius has cost people their lives and will continue to do so. Social distancing measures have cost people their lives and will continue to do so. The challenging question is how to proceed in a way that reduces the risk of death across the board. 

But your sole solution is to fully lift lockdown which most professionals agree would lead to many more deaths and would do nothing to prevent suicides or drug overdoses.

Professionals are not neutral, objective entities. They are human, and like the rest of us, have their own worldview and perspectives. I bet none of them make less than $15/hour. Their incomes are not threatened, and I'm willing to guess that for them to go to their own homes, they are not crammed into small apartments in large urban areas with many generations living inside. If they don't have family living with them, they certainly have the ability to connect virtually over the Internet, and are not lonely to the point of thinking they could completely cut off their phone and internet service to save money and they wouldn't miss out on anything important. They've been completely tone-deaf to the impacts of what they are suggesting.

Besides, I don't trust the professional class to advocate on behalf of average people anyways.

Pondering wrote:

Putting the bodies of dead family members on the street for pick up does not lead to fewer drug overdoses and suicides.

Except we have avoided the apocalyptic scenes of hospitals being over-run with covid patients in this country. Most parts of the country have the capacity to take on more covid patients, even as cases are generally spiking across the country this weekend. Dead bodies are, however, piling up from other causes which we aren't paying attention to because of covid. More people dead from overdoes in Winnipeg and BC than covid. More suicides in northern California than deaths from covid. It is also my contention that the social distancing measures brought on by covid are driving these deaths of despair. Perhaps the health officials took this into account, and there is a model out there that showed that if we hadn't done social distancing that more people would have died from covid in these areas than the aforementioned causes. I would like to see such numbers if they exist.

Pondering wrote:

Viruses are in many ways similar to sperm. It only takes one, but it takes millions to give that one a chance. Density matters a lot but a low sperm count does not mean pregnancy can't occur. Sperm cannot grow on things or survive indefinitely. I think viruses survive longer and are easier to transfer from one surface to another but aside from that the analogy is a good one.

Lots of things "could" happen. I find it's better for my mental health if I don't focus on them or look for ways to be scared.

Pondering wrote:

The protests should be silent and/or using cell phones and stamping feet to create noise.

The only thing that has ever worked throughout history to challenge elite power structures is masses of people in the street. As for using cell phones? Big Tech, if given the power, can very easily throttle any attempts at digital dissent. Ask any Chinese dissident about that.

Pondering wrote:

We have a responsibility to stay out of the way of essential workers who do not have the luxury of staying out of harms way. They have to use public transit and work at jobs that expose them to the public. They have had to do so with a shortage of PPEs. The general public has a moral responsibility to stay out of their way and not increase the risks they have no choice but to take regardless of their personal living arrangements. Asymptomatic carriers put them at great risk. From the beginning the primary goal has been slowing the disease to not overwhelm the health care system. The health care system isn't just a thing it's people, workers. Workers who need our support. They are the ones who were working double shifts even before this crisis hit. Right now supporting essential workers means staying out of their way to minimize their risks.

That's true, but covid isn't the only thing the health care system has to respond to. In Winnipeg and BC, it has had to respond to increases in overdose deaths. This puts strain not only on health care facilities, but on emergency response systems as well. Additionally, drug users often carry blood borne diseases that are far more dangerous than covid. More overdoses means more chances for EMS and hospital room staff to be potentially exposed to these infections.

Pondering wrote:

The "solution" to drug overdoses and suicides cannot be to sacrifice workers and the vulnerable.

False dichotomy. Many people vulnerable to drug overdoses and suicides are workers themselves, and they are also vulnerable.

To my friends : Covid 19 is not going away and we need to leave Cloud Cuckoo land

Speaking for myself I realize I have been living in denial of the reality of COVID-19 pandemic. New research shows that COVID-19 antibodies or not permanent. This means that someone can get the disease several times.

Today on CNN Dr. Fauci said quickly because of the number of people who refused to take vaccines; even if a reasonable vaccine were found there is very little likelihood that the United States will ever get to herd immunity.

This would make COVID-19 a permanent piece of our lives. Because of the virulence of the spread and the fact that asymptomatic infected people spread the disease it means that all social contact increases the likelihood of infection.

This means that very large parts of work will end up done from home through a computer and that most things will be produced in automated manufacturing.

It means that huge numbers of workplaces will close and other will change. Eventually it seems unlikely and unhealthy that front line public service jobs will be complete on line, that mass lectures at universities will never reconvene, and that employers who want people to come into a workplace will need to pay for expensive retrofits. It will be unhealthy for doctors to meet people for private consultations in closed offices and it will mean that the restaurants that do survive will be only be able to serve 1/3 or 1/2 of the pre-Covid clients.

This will mean great misery to many people and maybe a lot of empty buildings.

If we don't start thinking about this Capital will determine our future.

We need to remember that the Luddites also failed.

Aristotleded24 wrote:

  What I am doing is trying to look at the risks of coronavirus alongside other risks to human health, looking at the impact of human health on the restrictions, and trying to see how it all fits into the big picture. ... The fact that the left seems to have bought into the idea that we need to hide from this virus while completely neglecting the other aspects of human health, many of which are directly threatened by social distancing, boggles my mind. 

No one thinks we should be ignoring all other aspects of heatlh. People haven't been dying from Covid because of the shutdown. We are trying to avoid what happened in Wuhan and Italy and is happening in Brazil and beginning in the States.

Aristotleded24 wrote:

  The challenging question is how to proceed in a way that reduces the risk of death across the board.

Lifting lockdown and ending social distancing too early will not reduce the risk of death it will increase the risk of death for everyone including drug addicts and cancer patients and diabetics etc. These other issues don't make them immune from Covid.

Aristotleded24 wrote:

 Professionals are not neutral, objective entities. They are human, and like the rest of us, have their own worldview and perspectives. I bet none of them make less than $15/hour... They've been completely tone-deaf to the impacts of what they are suggesting. 

Lifting lockdown is not going to bring back the tourist industry and air travel and all the low wage jobs dependent on them.Many low wage workers are afraid to go back to work. They are doing so because they have no choice. In fact many business types were upset about CERB because it took pressure off of workers to accept whatever they were offered. Many low wage workers were perfectly happy to stay home on 500$ a week. Other workers may be desperate to get back to work but many of them will have no work to go back to depending on the industry they were in. I feel terrible for graduating pilots. Oil workers are screwed too. Opening up doesn't mean we are going to go back to the way things were even if a vaccine is eventually developed. Many stores and restarants are closed for good.

Aristotleded24 wrote:

  Except we have avoided the apocalyptic scenes of hospitals being over-run with covid patients in this country. Most parts of the country have the capacity to take on more covid patients, even as cases are generally spiking across the country this weekend.

Yes, because we locked down. As we learn more about the virus and as people become better educated (hopefully) we can loosen up and still stay safe but that is not the case in Montreal. People are interpreting the opening up as meaning it's over. From what I am hearing few people are wearing masks and those who are are wearing them wrong.

Aristotleded24 wrote:

 Dead bodies are, however, piling up from other causes which we aren't paying attention to because of covid. More people dead from overdoes in Winnipeg and BC than covid. More suicides in northern California than deaths from covid. It is also my contention that the social distancing measures brought on by covid are driving these deaths of despair. Perhaps the health officials took this into account, and there is a model out there that showed that if we hadn't done social distancing that more people would have died from covid in these areas than the aforementioned causes. I would like to see such numbers if they exist.  

Well we should be able to compare the before and after numbers on suicides and drug overdoses. We can look at countries that did not lockdown and see the covid numbers in those places. Nor is it just about deaths. It seems many people are left with long term damage. It is now spreading wildly in various states that refused to shut down and this is just the beginning.

Aristotleded24 wrote:

  Lots of things "could" happen. I find it's better for my mental health if I don't focus on them or look for ways to be scared.

Wearing a condom or taking birth control is not looking for a way to be scared and neither is social distancing and mask wearing. They are reasonable precautions to take against a known threat.

Aristotleded24 wrote:

  The only thing that has ever worked throughout history to challenge elite power structures is masses of people in the street. As for using cell phones? Big Tech, if given the power, can very easily throttle any attempts at digital dissent. Ask any Chinese dissident about that.

During the summer of student protests in Montreal some people had apps that would mimic banging pots and pans. Protesters are using their phones to organize at protests. We aren't in China.

Aristotleded24 wrote:

 That's true, but covid isn't the only thing the health care system has to respond to. In Winnipeg and BC, it has had to respond to increases in overdose deaths. This puts strain not only on health care facilities, but on emergency response systems as well. Additionally, drug users often carry blood borne diseases that are far more dangerous than covid. More overdoses means more chances for EMS and hospital room staff to be potentially exposed to these infections. 

Be that as it may those things are not as contagious as Covid-19 is. One of the worst things about it is asymptomatic carriers and that is why ramped up testing and tracing is so important. Yet again, the shortage of PPEs is interfering with the ability to restart "elective" surgery and dentistry.

Aristotleded24 wrote:

  False dichotomy. Many people vulnerable to drug overdoses and suicides are workers themselves, and they are also vulnerable.

Then they are on CERB and in some cases their jobs will not be coming back. There are places hiring low wage workers.  Some cleaning jobs won't come back as many companies are embracing work from home. Airlines are not coming back to pre-covid numbers any time soon. Tourist spots are opening up and begging for customers. Some people are traveling but many more are not and/or are staying close to home. All the festival jobs are gone for this year and probably down for next year. There are hotels that survive on Montreal's summer festival season from F1 to the Jazz festival and Just for Laughs and Pride celebrations and countless other major events. Reopening isn't going to bring that season back.

My prediction is that we will begin to see the ramifications of reopening Montreal in mid-August.

Yes there is major fall-out from the economic shutdown that has a major impact on health especially in the case of the most vulnerable populations.

It's your solution that I disagree with. We need to fight for better mental health care and for drug addiction to be treated as a health issue not a criminal one. We need to recognize access to decent housing as a right for all Canadians. We need enough PPEs being manufactured in Canada. Climate change is also killing people.

Aristotleded24 wrote:

<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> wrote:

To my friends : Covid 19 is not going away and we need to leave Cloud Cuckoo land

Speaking for myself I realize I have been living in denial of the reality of COVID-19 pandemic. New research shows that COVID-19 antibodies or not permanent. This means that someone can get the disease several times.

Today on CNN Dr. Fauci said quickly because of the number of people who refused to take vaccines; even if a reasonable vaccine were found there is very little likelihood that the United States will ever get to herd immunity.

This would make COVID-19 a permanent piece of our lives. Because of the virulence of the spread and the fact that asymptomatic infected people spread the disease it means that all social contact increases the likelihood of infection.

This means that very large parts of work will end up done from home through a computer and that most things will be produced in automated manufacturing.

It means that huge numbers of workplaces will close and other will change. Eventually it seems unlikely and unhealthy that front line public service jobs will be complete on line, that mass lectures at universities will never reconvene, and that employers who want people to come into a workplace will need to pay for expensive retrofits. It will be unhealthy for doctors to meet people for private consultations in closed offices and it will mean that the restaurants that do survive will be only be able to serve 1/3 or 1/2 of the pre-Covid clients.

This will mean great misery to many people and maybe a lot of empty buildings.

If we don't start thinking about this Capital will determine our future.

We need to remember that the Luddites also failed.

So let's live in fear of this thing now and forever until the end of time?

Sorry, I disagree.

By the way, Faucci also said that a second wave is not inevitable. Funny how expert opinion that contradicts the doom-and-gloom covid scenarios the media keeps presenting never make it into public consciousness.

There is no need to live in fear of COID forever until the end of time, but I do believe we need to treat COVID as enemy #1 until such time as there is a vaccine. What we do to live with COVID on an ongoing basis ought only to be contemplated if it becomes clear that a COVID vaccine is not on offer in the next 1-2 years, something which is far from determined one way or the other at present.

quote:

LAURIE GARRETT: Early in the epidemic, when we thought this was a very similar virus to SARS, I actually said you don’t need to wear a mask outdoors. It didn’t work for SARS. It won’t work for this. It’s really not relevant. But I’ve learned my lesson, and I think the whole entire medical and scientific community have learned a lesson.

You know, back in February and early March, we didn’t realize how deeply contagious this virus is. And it’s contagious in two ways that involve your mask, wearing a mask. The first is the kind of propellant that comes from coughing or sneezing and [coughs], and you’re creating a plosive, sort of propelling droplets forward. In that situation, the droplets may actually be visible to the naked eye; they may not even be microscopic. But the good news is, they will go out, but they’re contained within heavy water droplets, so gravity takes over, and they fall to the ground.

The much worse, which is what’s carried by asymptomatic carriers and people with very mild infections, involves no coughing, involves just normal patterns of speech, as I am doing right now, involves normal breathing, involves the kind of slightly accelerated breathing that comes with being a jogger or having some kind of exercise. And in those situations, you’re propelling virus in microscopic-size water droplets that cannot be seen, and they are not as gravitationally affected. They will go outwards and linger and get caught in air streams and move around within an enclosed space for hours and hours and hours on end. And in that way, you, as an individual walking without a mask on into a store, into a restaurant, into a friend’s house, and standing there having normal speech, are basically contaminating the atmosphere of the space. And as long as their windows are closed or it’s not a good air flow-through space, the contamination will remain for a considerable amount of time. So, you don’t even know you’re infected. You don’t know you’re a carrier. You have no particular symptoms. You’re 25 years old. You feel fearless. What could possibly threaten you? But you just managed to threaten a whole group of people you got in contact with.

I mean, Amy, you probably have been following the case of the Harper’s bar in East Lansing, Michigan. They opened up when Michigan started opening up. It was legal, what they were doing. The bar was a very popular hot spot in that college town, packed with twenty-somethings. Everybody took their masks off, you know, or they had them dangling from one ear, you know, as like a fashion statement. A lot of drinking. And now, last count, more than 80 people have been contact traced to having COVID directly because they went to that bar. Well, the only way to deal with that situation is to shut the whole bar down, disinfect the entire place, open all the windows, put fans in, blow the place clean.

Left Turn wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> wrote:

To my friends : Covid 19 is not going away and we need to leave Cloud Cuckoo land

Speaking for myself I realize I have been living in denial of the reality of COVID-19 pandemic. New research shows that COVID-19 antibodies or not permanent. This means that someone can get the disease several times.

Today on CNN Dr. Fauci said quickly because of the number of people who refused to take vaccines; even if a reasonable vaccine were found there is very little likelihood that the United States will ever get to herd immunity.

This would make COVID-19 a permanent piece of our lives. Because of the virulence of the spread and the fact that asymptomatic infected people spread the disease it means that all social contact increases the likelihood of infection.

This means that very large parts of work will end up done from home through a computer and that most things will be produced in automated manufacturing.

It means that huge numbers of workplaces will close and other will change. Eventually it seems unlikely and unhealthy that front line public service jobs will be complete on line, that mass lectures at universities will never reconvene, and that employers who want people to come into a workplace will need to pay for expensive retrofits. It will be unhealthy for doctors to meet people for private consultations in closed offices and it will mean that the restaurants that do survive will be only be able to serve 1/3 or 1/2 of the pre-Covid clients.

This will mean great misery to many people and maybe a lot of empty buildings.

If we don't start thinking about this Capital will determine our future.

We need to remember that the Luddites also failed.

So let's live in fear of this thing now and forever until the end of time?

Sorry, I disagree.

By the way, Faucci also said that a second wave is not inevitable. Funny how expert opinion that contradicts the doom-and-gloom covid scenarios the media keeps presenting never make it into public consciousness.

There is no need to live in fear of COID forever until the end of time, but I do believe we need to treat COVID as enemy #1 until such time as there is a vaccine. What we do to live with COVID on an ongoing basis ought only to be contemplated if it becomes clear that a COVID vaccine is not on offer in the next 1-2 years, something which is far from determined one way or the other at present.

What if a vaccine for covid can't ever be found? Then what? I think the scientific community speculated about a vaccine being able to solve the pandemic, and people grabbed onto that as being the one definitive thing that would help. You're also going to have problems with uptake. I believe in vaccinations against the common major illnesses that vaccines have eradicated, but even if one is available, I have no intention of being vaccinated against covid because I don't trust that a safe vaccine can be developed in that short a time frame. The WHO has even said that this virus could become one of the many illnesses we will just have to live with, and I think that is the most likely outcome as well.

States Mandate Face Masks, Impose New Restrictions as Cases Surge Across U.S.

More states around the country are imposing new measures and rolling back their reopening as coronavirus cases continue to surge. The governors of Oregon and Kansas are mandating face masks for residents. Jacksonville, Florida, which will host August’s Republican National Convention, also said it will make face coverings mandatory. Trump moved the RNC from North Carolina over Governor Roy Cooper’s refusal to allow for a packed arena during the pandemic. Seven cities in Texas say they will impose orders mandating face masks.

Meanwhile, hospitals in Texas report a dire situation as cases surge. This is Dr. Peter Hotez, who says Houston is in a “race to the bottom” alongside Phoenix and a few other cities.

Dr. Peter Hotez: “We’re seeing this massive relapse, this resurgence, and it’s happening in all the major metro areas of Texas, and it’s very alarming. The rate of acceleration is extreme.”

A major hospital system in Houston reportedly stopped disclosing COVID-19 data after its ICU capacity hit 100%, and following conversations with Governor Greg Abbott in which he expressed concern over negative headlines.
In other news from Texas, three congressmembers — Joaquin Castro, Henry Cuellar and Sylvia Garcia — were potentially exposed to the coronavirus after coming into contact with an ICE employee last week at an immigrant prison in Dilley, Texas, who later tested positive.

In California, where COVID-19 cases surged by 45% over the past week and a record 8,000 new daily cases were reported Monday, Governor Gavin Newsom said over 1,000 prisoners at San Quentin have now tested positive — nearly a third of all prisoners.

Meanwhile, beaches in Los Angeles, as well as several Florida counties, will be closed for Fourth of July weekend.

Dr. Anthony Fauci Warns U.S. Could Soon Record 100,000 Coronavirus Cases a Day

The United States is experiencing the world’s worst outbreak of COVID-19, which could soon spiral out of control unless urgent steps are taken to isolate confirmed cases and conduct contact tracing. That was the stark warning of top U.S. infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci in testimony to a Senate committee on Tuesday.

Dr. Anthony Fauci: “When you have an outbreak in one part of the country, even though in other parts of the country they’re doing well, they are vulnerable. I made that point very clearly last week at a press conference. We can’t just focus on those areas that are having the surge. It puts the entire country at risk. We are now having 40-plus thousand new cases a day. I would not be surprised if we go up to 100,000 a day, if this does not turn around.”

Dr. Fauci’s warning came as eight states announced single-day highs, with a record 47,000 U.S. infections reported on Tuesday. The U.S. has 4% of the world’s population but has recorded more than a quarter of worldwide coronavirus cases and deaths. In California, Governor Gavin Newsom is set to announce new rollbacks of reopenings after a record rise in new cases and hospitalizations. In Houston, hospitals have begun transferring COVID patients to other parts of Texas, as the city has become a new epicenter of the pandemic. This is Dr. Peter Hotez, dean of the Baylor College of Medicine.

Dr. Peter Hotez: “It’s very alarming. The rate of acceleration is extreme. We’re seeing daily dramatic increase, almost a vertical slope, some of the models saying that we may be at 4,000 cases a day in Houston by early, middle July. So it would be catastrophic for the city.”

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Dozens of Healthcare Workers Died of COVID-19 After OSHA Dismissed Pleas for PPE

A new report finds U.S. health workers filed more than 4,100 complaints about a lack of personal protective equipment during the pandemic — even as hundreds died of COVID-19. The report from Kaiser Health News and The Guardian found officials with the Occupational Safety and Health Administration rapidly closed many complaints without issuing citations. Researchers found just a single instance when OSHA issued a fine: a $3,900 penalty for a Georgia nursing home that failed to report worker hospitalizations on time.