Green Party coup

835 posts / 0 new

Sat, 2020-09-19 08:07

Pondering

Green Party coup

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/green-party-leadership-socialism-lef...

In the race to lead, multiple candidates are pushing an explicitly eco-socialist agenda. They’ve been endorsed by advocacy groups and many long-time NDP supporters disappointed in that party’s recent swings towards the centre. The slate of Green leadership candidates has spurred a historic increase in membership for the party, and they say they’re ready to challenge our country’s political status quo......

Montreal lawyer Dimitri Lascaris is arguably the most explicit in his push to move the party away from the centre, saying the Greens must “unapologetically lay claim” to the left and that he wants to “tax billionaires out of existence.” As of the end of August, he’s ranked second in terms of fundraising totals, behind only Paul. ...

“At the end of the day, centrists are the guardians of the status quo,” he wrote in a HuffPost questionnaire given to candidates. “The time for incrementalism has passed. What this moment calls for is bold, progressive action.”

Many Lascaris supporters are pushing for Montreal lawyer Meryam Haddad as their second choice. Haddad is highlighting her youth and leftist politics as the future of the Greens.

“I am a socialist, an immigrant, a lesbian and more importantly a millennial, someone who will live to see our extinction if we do not tackle climate change,” she said in response to the questionnaire.

..................................................................................................................................................................................

It is too late to vote but I am joining the Green Party. While we were talking the left staged a coup. It isn't as big as the NDP but it is big enough to grow quickly.

Sat, 2020-09-19 09:38

NDPP

And I think it may well do just that. Probably for the same reasons that persuaded you. A fresh, long overdue progressive alternative that can be shaped into a vehicle and a movement people so urgently need at this point in our history. That is absolutely guaranteed not to be the case with the other parties. Congratulations!

Sat, 2020-09-19 13:24

Misfit

If they can succeed I'll be in as well.

Sat, 2020-09-19 13:48

lagatta4

I'll certainly look into this. Before, the Greens here were notorious low on social thought and demands, but parties can change.

Sat, 2020-09-19 14:21

Ken Burch

Interesting times, but I wish there was a different title for this thread. "Coup", to my mind, always evokes an antidemocratic takeover with right-wing intent.

Sat, 2020-09-19 16:11

epaulo13

..i joined. it's only $10. maybe there will be another opportunity to push.

Sat, 2020-09-19 16:57

(Reply to #6) #7

NDPP

[quote=Ken Burch]

Interesting times, but I wish there was a different title for this thread. "Coup", to my mind, always evokes an antidemocratic takeover with right-wing intent.

[quote=NDPP]

Also: "a brilliant, sudden and usually highly successful stroke or act."

Sat, 2020-09-19 17:31

Aristotleded24

I was very happy to vote and campaign for Leah Gazan as the NDP MP here in Winnipeg Centre. I will gladly do so again in the next election regardless of the outcome of the Green Party leadership race.

Sat, 2020-09-19 17:55

Ken Burch

The ultimate goal should probably be the creation of a new party made up of left people in the NDP and the Greens, but not using the name of either of those parties.

Given that the federal NDP is clearly at a point of diminishing returns and the Green Party inner circle- whose views are represented by the incredibly arrogant and dismissive Andrew West- is fighting like hell to keep the party on a course which has led them nowhere, a new radical party that represents small-g green and small-s socialist and anti-authoritarian left voices, and antimilitarist voices, is desperately needed.

It's enough to have TWO parties of the status quo-the Cons and the Libs. The NDP/Green establishment fixation with creating a third "more of the same" party makes no sense. People who want more of the same aren't going to vote for anybody other than the Libs or the Cons. The "I'll vote for another party, so long as they don't actually change anything, for God's sakes" voter does not exist, or at least not in significant numbers to make a real difference in any election.

Sat, 2020-09-19 18:03

#10

NDPP

I disagree. The Green Party is exactly the right name.

Sat, 2020-09-19 18:15

#11

Pondering

I joined too.

https://www.annamiepaul.ca/ identifies as an eco-socialist. She is the front-runner in terms of having raised the most money.

https://www.teamdimitri.ca/ is in second place in terms of raising money.

The election will be by ranked ballot so second choice will matter. Murray and Merner don't strike me as being far enough left but I doubt either will win as all members get a vote. Both leaders in fund-raising are definitely left, far left for some. The rest of the contenders are also to the left.

This has been a grass roots takeover. I think May was holding the party back with her insistence on being in the "centre" yet she did so much for the party and had high name recognition and quite a bit of respect from the general public so the membership was loath to oust her. I found her resignation odd at the time but now I think this was the reason. It was always weird that the Green Party wasn't left.

Even without voting for the leader the party is small enough to be influenced by the grassroots.

I think the NDP is in major trouble. Once people really catch on the left-wing membership of the NDP will switch parties to continue the take-over.

Sat, 2020-09-19 18:45

(Reply to #11) #12

NDPP

[quote=Pondering]

Even without voting for the leader the party is small enough to be influenced by the grassroots.

[quote=NDPP]

That is the critical attractive feature and its potentiality.

Candidates Debate: Sunday, Sept 20, 7:00-9:00 PM EDT

https://twitter.com/dimitrilascaris/status/1307393640722038785

"This Sunday! Heartwood Institute is proud to present a Canadian Greens Leadership Contest debate. The candidates will focus on electing Green MPs and supporting the Green movement's growth..."

'Yes, we're building a dedicated group of Canadian Greens across the country to make the dream of a unified progressive movement a reality.'

Sat, 2020-09-19 19:18

#13

Pondering

I doubt Andrew West has any chance of winning given the politics of both front runners. May is gone. The new leader will give direction.

Montreal-based lawyer Meryam Haddad's campaign made a last-minute push in the final three days of August to get on the ballot. In total, candidates needed $30,000 as a non-refundable deposit to get on the ballot, with $10,000 in an initial payment in the spring and the final $20,000 due on Sept. 1. ...

In a somewhat unusual show of co-operation in politics, several other candidates tweeted the pitches to help get Haddad on the ballot too, including Lascaris and former Ontario Liberal environment minister Glen Murray.

Now that is solidarity.

I am against any merger with the NDP and I doubt the Green Party would be interested. Members including MPs can switch parties if they don't find the NDP sufficiently left.

People on this board have been saying for years a new party was needed. NDP supporters have been disgusted with the party to the point that there have been multiple discussions on the need for a new party.

The right wing moderates of the NDP can stay put or merge with the Liberal party. I absolutely do not want any part of the "moderate" NDP that refused to allow members to vote on cannabis policy and opposed legalization in 2o15. Dinosaurs.

The CA/PC merger kept the name "Conservative" because of name recognition. The Green Party has never held a lot of seats but they have massive name recognition and a very positive reputation. That's valuable.

The environment is THE issue of the 21st century. Every year the disasters are more spectacular. Fires, floods, hurricanes where they have never been before, or larger than they have ever been before. As I understand the science there is a 50 year delay in the impact. That means we are now experiencing the impact of what we did in the 1970s. Our use of fossil fuels has grown exponentially. So will the impact grow exponentially and I think recent history supports the theory.

Having the reputation of being the party of the environment is a benefit. The Green Party name is fine the way it is.

Sun, 2020-09-20 13:29

#14

Pondering

Can you tell I am super excited over the Green Party. I so wish I had been paying attention sooner. How foolish to have ignored the leadership race. Now that I am paying attention I checked out the platforms of all the leadership contenders because it is still exciting to see where it will go especially now that I am a member. I also found this...

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2020/08/31/green-party-expects-...

Paul $120K
Lascaris $100K
Howard $74 K

Numbers for the rest are not given but it says those are the top three, If number 4 were close they would have listed it. Money isn't necessarily representative of votes but I think they are still a fair indicator. There are 8 candidates in total and a ranked ballot will be used so technically if the person in 4th place got all the second choice votes they could conceivably win. I don't think it is at all likely.

The other 5 contenders in no particular order. David Merner, Amita Cuttner, Glen Murray, Maryann Haddad, Andrew West. Haddad was helped by Murray and Lacaris who tweeted to help her raise funds when she was falling just short of enough to get on the list.

I've begun to watch the debates and can see why Paul and Lacaris are leading the pack. So I am headed back to watch some more but starting at the beginning.

This is debate 1 but there are 10 candidates two of whom drop off later so only 5 are in the first debate.

Judy Green, Amita Kuttner, David Merner, Glen Murray, and Annamie Paul

Judy Green drops off later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa_ATdGAzWU

Mon, 2020-09-21 00:33

#15

Left Turn

Note that the deadline for joining the Green Party to vote in their current leadership election was September 3rd. So folks here who joined the Green Party after September 3rd will be out of luck in terms of voting for the leader.

I joined the Green Party on September 3rd. I think this allows me to vote, but I won't know for sure until September 26th, which is when they are sending out the voting link.

I'll be voting for Dmitri Lascaris, with Meryam Haddad and Amita Kuttner as 2nd and 3rd choices.

Mon, 2020-09-21 10:40

#16

lagatta4

This is a little more problematic for those of us who have progressive NDP MPs. If Alexandre Boulerice loses, the Bloc will definitely pick up our riding, and I want no part of them.

The only political party I actually belong to is Québec solidaire, which is certainly as strong on environmental issues as the Greens.

Mon, 2020-09-21 11:42

#17

Aristotleded24

It's a similar situation here in Winnipeg Centre, lagatta. Leah Gazan is an amazing MP, and I have yet to run into someone who doesn't like her. Even people who voted Green provincially voted for her. Aside from a very small pocket which was the base of support the Greens hoped would carry them to vitory in the provincial election, they don't have much in the way of popular support. A rise in Green support at the expense of the NDP could elect a Liberal MP in this area. That said, I trust her and her campaign team to respond and I think they are equipped to deal with this. I suspect many other NDP MPs are as well. Whether the NDP as a whole understands what is happening is another question.

Mon, 2020-09-21 13:13

#18

Pondering

I think Outremont is a safe Liberal seat now so if that continues I can vote Green in good conscience. For those in a more difficult position I think it is possible to vote strategically while supporting an opposing party that is ideologically closer.

Hopefully a reckoning is coming for the political and economic class who are responsible for climate change. People will be looking for leaders that didn't spend the last half century in denial. My guess is that it will be between 8 to 16 years from now. That will be the opening for a party that has a history of taking climate change seriously.

I don't think Andrew West has a hope in hell of winning. He is out of step with all the other contenders so he won't get many second choice voters.

I watched the debates and some interviews with Lascaris. I was partial to Paul because she is a woman but she is my second choice. Lascaris has my full support which even surprises me. You will be surprised at what clinched it for me.

At one point in the debate candidates were asked to vote thumbs up, down, or pass.

Should Canada release Meng Wanzhou? Lacaris - yes - Paul - pass
Should Canada adopt UN nuclear ban treaty? Lacaris - yes - Paul - pass
Should Canada leave the 5 eyes? Lacaris - yes - Paul - pass
Should Canada leave the Lima group? Lacaris - yes - Paul - pass

I'm not comfortable with Paul's non-answers. Either she doesn't know or doesn't want to say. Either is not good although I was already swaying to Lascaris at that point.

I am supporting Lascaris based on much of his policy and his leadership qualities not on his answers to these questions but because he had answers.

He is gutsy, he thinks on his feet, he can defend his positions concisely "cuts through the crap" so to speak. He is charismatic and self-assured. He is never going to look uncertain and will have clear positions on everything without hesitation.

Mon, 2020-09-21 13:17

#19

Pondering

Progressive NDP MPs could cross the floor if the Greens do really well. Especially if that move is supported by constituents.

Mon, 2020-09-21 13:38

#20

Misfit

One party is a well established party with a general core base of roughly 18% of the popular vote that is "supposed to" be a left of centre, social democratic party but has gradually shifted to the right over the last decade or so.

Then you have a nut bar environmental party which is pro capitalist and more libertarian in scope that has only elected one seat for more than a decade and has now, three seats tops.

Put your time and energy into fixing up the NDP rather than fantasizing that two parties will get anyone anywhere.

Unite the Fucking Left folks! The Greens are nothing more than a right wing spoiler masquerading as a left wing choice. Their purpose is to attack the left and not be the left.

Mon, 2020-09-21 13:48

(Reply to #20) #21

Aristotleded24

Pondering wrote:
Progressive NDP MPs could cross the floor if the Greens do really well. Especially if that move is supported by constituents.

It's not that simple. Floor crossers very often go down to defeat in the next election. You also had the scenario in Sudbury where Andrew Oliver ran under the Liberal banner in 2011 and again in the by-election that followed, only to have less significant support without a party label. There is more to it than the candidate simply choosing which parties to sit with.

Provincial infrastructure is another problem. I can see the strategy working for the Greens where they have elected MLAs in Prince Edward Island, New Brunswick, Vancouver Island, or Guelph. They are non-existent everywhere else, and that proposes a problem. Let's use Winnipeg Centre as an example. Provincially, that is very staunchly NDP, and there was close co-ordination between federal and provincial campaigns to get Gazan elected. Now suppose Gazan were to cross the floor and sit with the Greens. Do you think she would have the support of the provincial party infrastructure to continue on as MP? Do you not think there would be a sense of betrayal among voters who wanted an NDP MP? Do you not think that the NDP would field another candidate?

Perhaps the election of Lascaris as Green Party leader would be a good thing to introduce bold ideas that others are too afraid to mention. They still have to overcome the hurdle of building a ground-up infrastructure, especially at the provincial level, before they become a viable force.

Mon, 2020-09-21 14:08

#22

epaulo13

Put your time and energy into fixing up the NDP

..this can only be done from within the party. how's that working out?

..from outside the ndp can be pushed to change, maybe. ie a radicalized green party.

..at this point though lets just wait see who gets elected.

Mon, 2020-09-21 14:20

#23

epaulo13

Unite the Fucking Left folks!

..up to now political parties have been all about controling them at the top via a cabal..even the greens. these cabals divide the left. want nothing to do with the left. so it's back to democratizing the party.

..i don't know where this new green left stands on that but i'm watching.

Mon, 2020-09-21 14:26

#24

Misfit

Pondering wrote:

"I watched the debates and some interviews with Lascaris. I was partial to Paul because she is a woman but she is my second choice. Lascaris has my full support which even surprises me. You will be surprised at what clinched it for me.

At one point in the debate candidates were asked to vote thumbs up, down, or pass.

Should Canada release Meng Wanzhou? Lacaris - yes - Paul - pass
Should Canada adopt UN nuclear ban treaty? Lacaris - yes - Paul - pass
Should Canada leave the 5 eyes? Lacaris - yes - Paul - pass
Should Canada leave the Lima group? Lacaris - yes - Paul - pass

I'm not comfortable with Paul's non-answers. Either she doesn't know or doesn't want to say. Either is not good although I was already swaying to Lascaris at that point."

Ok Pondering, why would you consider her your number 2 choice? She doesn't represent anything because as you say, she doesn't know or doesn't want to say. Why would you even consider her then?

If she doesn't know then she has no business running for any party leadership. Maybe people should expect their leaders to know some things about what they are leading people on.

The United States elected Ronald Reagan because he was a movie star and had name recognition. George W Bush was the son of a former president and had name recognition but thought that Africa was a country and didn't know where India was on a map of the world. Donald Trump was a reality tv celebrity who went bankrupt multiple times. He thought that Bhutan and Nepal were Nipples and Buttons and is arguably throwing the United States into a civil war.

People do vote these kinds of people into office who don't know anything. But why would you give someone who may not know any answers to questions any kind of consideration?

If Annamie Paul does know the answers to the questions but declines to answer them then does that make her a tad bit shady? You don't know what you are voting for but you are just supposed to trust her to do the right thing and then hope you agree with her direction that she knew all along what she intended to do but simply refused to say.

So you mentioned that Annamie Paul is a woman. Well so is Meryam Haddad and AmitaKuttner. So is that ER doctor from Whitehorse. Three out of the four women actually told everyone where they stand on issues. You want to pick the only woman who won't give a position on any topic.

But then again, you voted for Justin Trudesu. I really shouldn't be that surprised.

Mon, 2020-09-21 15:56

#25

epaulo13

..from lascaris

Party Governance

quote:

At the local level:

● The Leader, Shadow Cabinet, Federal Council and staff will assist the EDAs to conduct collaborative strategic and annual planning processes with members; and build the capacity of EDAs to support “bottom-up” development of new policies for the GPC.

II. EDA Renewal: Broadening and deepening the base

Recognizing that the grassroots is where we earn the trust of voters, and, as is done by other national party machines, well in advance of any election, GPC HQ will:

● Revisit and strengthen the template for the EDA constitution (and by-laws). Clarifying the mandate, roles and responsibilities and providing guidance on how to manage meetings.

● Strengthen the capacity of the EDA Executive to deliver on their mandate

● Support collaborative activities such as EDA planning and reporting and membership outreach.

● Develop guidance on “best practices” in key areas (e.g., fundraising, expansion of membership and selection of equity-seeking candidates).

● Ensure candidates have pithy briefs for each policy issue in the platform.

III. Accountability and transparency: Share and communicate better

There is a need to open up our decisions and better communicate our accomplishments and challenges. If Dimitri is elected leader, GPC HQ will:

● Render all decisions of an ombudsperson for the party public and binding on the leader, the Executive director, the Federal Council and the shadow cabinet.

● To the greatest possible degree, facilitate observation of the meetings of the Federal Council by party members.

● Ensure that all Federal Council meetings are announced more than 48 hours in advance; that agendas be published; and that full minutes and supporting documentation be provided. Minutes, to be provided within a week, should include recording of any subjects referred to in camera sessions, with the results of those proceedings.

● Post the outcomes of GPC HQ assessments, evaluations, policy proposals, plans and reports3 on the GPC website.

● Encourage EDAs to post their plans, reports, agendas and minutes of meetings, and audits on their websites.

● Post the Federal Organizational Effectiveness Action Plan and annual reports on progress towards the recommendations, based on an assessment4 of the relevance, effectiveness and efficiency of the GPC.

● Require that financial statements of the health of the party (income and expenses, assets and liabilities) be published quarterly for all members to see, no later than one month after the end of each quarter.

Mon, 2020-09-21 17:52

#26

Pondering

On floor-crossing, We elect MPs not parties. The type of MP that would cross the floor is one who was elected on their leftist credentials.

Annamie Paul raised the most amount of money and I was able to see why. What questions she did answer she answered eloquently. I supported the positions she took. She is very self-assured. I don't think she would be easy to rattle. Given 2 people who are equal in every other way I favor the woman because throughout history the man has been favored. Much as I was biased in favor of Paul, Lascaris was the better communicator and has a broader vision of the world.

Most know I don't believe the Conservative Party can win another election federally but they will keep 25 to 30% support. It will just be too concentrated to deliver a win. That leaves 70% of the electorate who will be deciding who wins over the next few elections. That will be the Liberals for the next few elections but people will be holding their noses to do it. As Sean pointed out, eventually another party does get elected. If it isn't the Conservatives todays alternative would be the NDP. But the NDP is just another Liberal party now. They are slightly farther left but they are still very much an establishment party afraid to get in front of the parade (to lead people where they want to go).

For a long time Canadians have had little to choose from. All three parties accept neoliberalism. The Liberals are the good cop willing to be kind to the little people as long as they accept the basic power structure. The NDP are a little nicer. I was very understanding of the NDP's need to move to the centre when the Liberals were weak but they didn't have to go as far as Mulcair. Even so it has to be admitted that under Layton and then Mulcair the party came close to winning. The problem with the NDP is that it failed to move with the times. Every single Green vote should have been an NDP vote. The NDP executive got stuck in thinking that to get worker votes they had to support big oil. The NDP got around the constitutional requirement to adopt policy voted on by not allowing a vote on Cannabis. They have become ossified. Times are moving fast and the NDP isn't moving with them. I had high hopes for Singh but he doesn't have control over the party. The executive controls it. Since elected Singh has gone more and more silent. He's a great guy but he isn't a strong enough leader.

Times are changing very fast. Climate change is speeding up forcing governments to deal with it, but they still aren't changing anything significant. Emissions are still rising. The answer to plastic islands is to ban shopping bags and straws. It will become more and more self-evident that the establishment did know what was happening and did next to nothing to prevent it.

That is when Green parties will rise, left or right. It's crucial for the left to take over the Green party in Canada. It will take 8 to 16 years depending on events for the Greens to rise but I believe they will. Ironically the destruction of Earth is an opportunity for radical change in the form of defeating the right and capitalism as we know it. We could enter another age of enlightenment, or not. One thing for sure it's time to fight.

Mon, 2020-09-21 19:18

#27

Pondering

I will be very disappointed if Lascaris doesn't win but I would still support the party. I would have less confidence in it. It's possible but I really believe he is going to win from watching the debates. I would have thought he would be too extreme but all the other candidates are either far left or very far left so I don't think his views will scare anyone off.

My mother used the "don't you dare or else" line. I never dared to ask what the "for else" would be for fear she would illustrate though she never did worse than send me to my room so I don't know what I was so afraid of.

I have long accepted that we must belong to NORAD and NATO and the 5 Eyes. The thought of quitting was ridiculous to me. This is just the reality. We couldn't just quit. Everybody knows that. "Or else" would happen if we quit. The world would come crashing down around our ears. No man is an island. We would be in all kinds of trouble.

Lacaris wants to quit all of that. He says we can do it and I believe him. I'm just an average person and most of us don't have much knowledge of foreign affairs so are susceptible to simplistic arguments. The only reason I understand we did the wrong thing in Syria and Venezuela and everywhere in between is because I come here. Were it not for that I would not see us as the bad guys. I place my trust in scientists when I accept that the core of the earth is a hot ball of fire and that we live on a star and evolution happened. To a large extent most people trust leaders to get the really big stuff right, like whether or not to go to war, or negotiate a trade deal. They know best and the "or else" is too complicated to understand without indepth study. So we listen to the simplified debates and support a side based on simplistic reasoning or without much knowledge. I'm for gun control. I don't need to know the details.

Lascaris convinced me that pulling all our troops out and quitting 5 eyes and NORAD is perfectly reasonable and doable. I really don't know what the ramifications would be and won't study the topic to the depth it deserves before coming to a conclusion of my own. What it comes down to is I have to pick someone to trust without having in depth knowledge of my own. I still had and have an opinion of course. My opinion was that it would be great to withdraw from all that stuff but it isn't realistic. Now there is someone telling me that yes it is possible and it is someone I consider very knowledgable. His positions are the ones I want to support or am not actively against. He is calm but emphatic in a way that makes all things seem possible and reasonable. He has me convinced there is no "or else" or not one we can't deal with. He has renewed my hope that a better world is possible and that Canada could be the political catalyst the left needs to rise in Europe.

If he can inspire me to change so many of my views almost overnight I think it is safe to say he is a persuasive person which is a very important quality in leader.

Tue, 2020-09-22 05:37

#28

nicky

Just how has Jagmeet moved the party to the right so as to justify abandoning the NDP for the Greens which have taken many conservative positions over the years?

Tue, 2020-09-22 10:24

#29

NDPP

Does a Hill& Knowlton advisor to the leader count? Or actively crushing a BDS resolution by NDP members in Convention? Support for Trump's 'free-trade' deal?

Tue, 2020-09-22 14:09

(Reply to #29) #30

Ken Burch

nicky wrote:

Just how has Jagmeet moved the party to the right so as to justify abandoning the NDP for the Greens which have taken many conservative positions over the years?

Agreed that the Greens have had many conservative positions over the years, but the talk of switching to them is based on the possibility that the Greens might choose, for the first time, a genuinely Left leader like Lascaris or even Haddad, whose election would significantly change GPC policies and party governance.

If Paul or worse, Andrew West-who has presented himself as the "continuity May" candidate, whether May wanted him to or not- were somehow to win, you'd see most of that talk stop immediately and the GPC would be lucky to hang onto its current seat and vote totals, let alone make any significant gains.

And if the GPC inner core were seen as having somehow cheated Lascaris of victory and imposed a bland, passionless cypher like Paul or West, it's an open question as to whether the GPC would survive as a party. They've spent almost forty years chasing the "Tories with composters" vote, and after almost forty years that vote has never gone to them...or it has, but it's too trivially small a group of voters to matter.

Tue, 2020-09-22 19:12

#31

kropotkin1951

None of the Green leadership candidates will have coattails any longer than Singh's. I remember that it was Jack and the cabal around him that reversed the NDP positions on NATO and free trade and Palestine. For short term gain he threw away a commitment to peace and justice that the membership at conventions had endorsed for decades. If the party had stayed true to its core believes like those I mentioned it would be doing far better. Jack drove the NDP to the center and Tom drove the party off the cliff into liberalism.

Tue, 2020-09-22 23:18

#32

Pondering

I saw what Kropotkin saw under Layton and Mulcair but I have only known the party through those two leaders. It is why I couldn't see why everyone thought voting for Trudeau was such a big deal. His policies were to the left of Mulcair so why not? I was always clear that for me it was about cannabis legalization, and Mulcair pushing the Sherbrooke Declaration and EE which I saw as politically stupid as well as wrong.

I see no reason for "the left" to show loyalty to the NDP. In ridings that are neck and neck I would vote liberal over conservative and ndp over both but otherwise there is no reason to vote NDP.

I've no idea how much of the NDP vote is frustrated leftists but I foresee them going in droves to the Greens especially if Lascaris wins.

Tue, 2020-09-22 23:33

#33

Pondering

Speak of the devil, newly published:

https://ipolitics.ca/2020/09/21/frustrated-by-grits-and-ndp-canadian-lef...

“I feel like most of us in this group, we are … disgruntled with the NDP but also with the Greens,” Furtak said. “And we saw an opportunity here that, one of these left-wing candidates, if they were to win the leadership of the Greens, they would actually be able to move the party more to the left and bring some policies to kind of shift the Overton window in Canada.”.....

The candidates present bold plans for a green, socialist Canada. Though some of their policies differ — from defunding the police, to a major wealth tax, to a basic income — they’re united in their understanding that capitalism is the root cause of inequality, climate change, and many other social and economic ills.

They’ll face a tough test against the current front-runner Annamie Paul, who toured with May on a fundraising campaign. But they say the responses so far have been encouraging, as disgruntled ex-NDP and -Liberal members flock their way.

Tue, 2020-09-22 23:51

(Reply to #33) #34

Left Turn

Misfit wrote:

One party is a well established party with a general core base of roughly 18% of the popular vote that is "supposed to" be a left of centre, social democratic party but has gradually shifted to the right over the last decade or so.

Then you have a nut bar environmental party which is pro capitalist and more libertarian in scope that has only elected one seat for more than a decade and has now, three seats tops.

Put your time and energy into fixing up the NDP rather than fantasizing that two parties will get anyone anywhere.

Unite the Fucking Left folks! The Greens are nothing more than a right wing spoiler masquerading as a left wing choice. Their purpose is to attack the left and not be the left.

The nature of the Green Party could change depending on who they elect as their next leader. If they elect one of the more centre/right candidates as their leader, yes they'd still be as you describe them; but I'd have a hard time believing that the character of the Green Party would remain as you've described it if Lascaris wins.

Of course, even if Lascaris wins, that hardly means a vote for the Green Party would be sound strategy in any riding. Just having Lascaris as leader -- and let's face it, Dmitri Lascaris is clearly to the left of Jagmeet Singh -- that wouldn't by any means guarantee that the greens would put up candidates who would out-left further left NDP MP's such as Alexandre Boulerice, Matthew Green, Leah Gazan, and Niki Ashton.

Wed, 2020-09-23 00:36

(Reply to #34) #35

Left Turn

nicky wrote:

Just how has Jagmeet moved the party to the right so as to justify abandoning the NDP for the Greens which have taken many conservative positions over the years?

The Green Party has a leadership election at the moment that members can vote in. I see lots I like in Dmitri Lascaris, ideas that I believe deserve a wider audience -- and let's be honest, Jagmeet isn't promoting a lot of these ideas.

In contrast, an NDP membership doesn't give me a vote on much of anything right now.

Wed, 2020-09-23 03:19

#36

jerrym

Stuart Parker, BC Green Party leader from 1993 to 2000, has resigned as the leader of the BC Ecosocialists. I stumbled across this just released article in looking up some background on federal Green Party leadership candidate Meryam Haddad, who I didn't know anything about. She complained in a tweet about Parker's comments regarding trans women, leading in the end to his resignation.

B.C. Ecosocialists Leader Stuart Parker will resign as a candidate in Prince George–Valemount and as the party leader, effective at midnight tonight. Below, you can read a statement that Parker, a former B.C. Green leader, posted on his website:

Comrades,

I see that BC’s two counterfeit left parties have chosen their strategy for derailing our campaign. A slew of false allegations of transphobia are being circulated against me and being used to tarnish the party and derail the important work of the coming campaign.

We cannot afford to have that happen. The primary voting issue in this election must remain climate justice. Nothing can distract us from what is truly at stake: the very survival of our species. Every day we spend discussing whether it was wrong for me to defend a local Vancouver activist from a campaign to blacklist her from employment is a day we do not spend discussing John Horgan using the RCMP as Royal Dutch Shell’s brute squad to drive a fracked gas pipeline through the territory of the Wet’suwet’en people. And we cannot afford that distraction.

So, it is with regret and reluctance that I am tendering my resignation as director, leader and candidate effective midnight tonight. I know, from the sterling group of young people who have joined our slate and our board over the past eleven months that I am leaving this party is excellent hands. You folks will do a great job and I will be proud to cast a vote for whomever the party selects in Prince George-Valemount.

Solidarity and courage

Tweets that preceded the resignation

Stuart Parker been a proud supporter of trans rights for 25 years. I secured the @VanGreens endorsement of Jamie Lee Hamilton's 1st serious campaign by a trans candidate in Canada. Proud to have co-authored @BCEcosocialists policy calling for expanded trans rights today.

Meryam Haddad I have been made aware of transphobic comments from @stuartlosaltos, director of @BCEcosocialists. I have been in contact with both parties. I demanded Stuart apologize and resign. He refused. If BC Ecosocialists does not expell him, I will disavow them as well.

Chris Markevich Yeah I sincerely hope that Stuart changes his mind. Not a good look for anyone to double down on transphobia, perceived or not.

Hailey Heartless Did she actually recieve rp threats. I've been following this and haven't actually seen those, just TERFs and alt-right trolls claiming it. This sounds disingenuous, an attempt to play on women's emotions by using sexual assault imagery, and if so it's extremely misogynistic.

Chris Markevich Not to mention the fact that JKR is hugely privileged, is a billionaire, and is very powerful with her words. Anyone who has read her books knows she is masterful at telling stories.

Stuart Parker All I did was defend a group of three elderly women who spoke out against the rape threats JK Rowling received when people were suggesting a campaign to get one of them fired. I think we all deserve secure employment and a life free of rape threats.

queer elizadick You repeated a great deal of typical transphobic arguments in your blog, constructing trans women as threats to cis women and portraying life-saving gender-affirming treatments as dangerous tools of the state.

https://www.straight.com/news/stuart-parker-resigns-as-leader-of-bc-ecos...

Wed, 2020-09-23 03:10

#37

nicky

A cautionary tale about the Greens

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/us/politics/green-party-republicans-hawkins.html

Wed, 2020-09-23 10:03

#38

nicky

Had dad has tweeted that she has been disqualified by the party from seeking the leadership.

Anyone know why?

Wed, 2020-09-23 11:17

(Reply to #38) #39

jerrym

nicky wrote:

Haddad has tweeted that she has been disqualified by the party from seeking the leadership.

Anyone know why?

All I could find was this:

IvaGrey This is disappointing and I'd like to know why. I voted for the Green party in the last election and I was hoping she would win the leadership.

Edit: Tweet from Meryam Haddad. She says that they expelled her for "breaking the Members' Code of Conduct" specifically where it says not to "intentionally undertake any action that would bring the GPC into dispute". This still doesn't really explain anything though.

Edit 2: Is it possible it could be because of this? I noticed some of the other party candidates on twitter weren't happy about it. They called it "unacceptable collusion with the NDP" essentially. I don't know how the rules work though. Would that be something that isn't allowed?

snoeyyc This disrepute rule is completely subjective and gives the party the leeway to do whatever they want.

Again. Let the membership decide not an anonymous tribunal.

Rusty-Idols Maybe that or maybe they are jumping on her support for the Eco-socialist insurgent party against the mainstream provincial Green Party in BC and they are going to use the recent controversy over the Eco-Socialist's leader making statements perceived to be TERF supporting.

When you click on "this" from the above tweet you get the following, a "For Immediate Release September 22 Green Party Leadership Candidate Proposes a One Time Alliance with the NDP to Achieve Electoral Reform"

with more information on her proposal at the url below:

https://www.facebook.com/meryamhaddad2020/photos/a.111808700214814/37800...

Wed, 2020-09-23 11:23

#40

Pondering

Don't vote for the NDP, it splits the vote on the left, don't vote for the Greens, it splits the vote on the left, by that logic we should all vote Liberal. That way we can emulate the states and have just two parties. No thanks.

Message from Meryam Haddad twitter, I transcribed it.

This afternoon, I received notification from the Green Party Establishment that I have been expelled as a Contestant for the Leadership of the Green Party of Canada. According to GPC:

Leadership Contestants and all persons acting under their direction are bound by the GPC Constitution and bylaws, including the Members' code of conduct, according to which members must not intentionally undertake any action which would bring the GPC into disrepute.

This is not the first time the GPC establishment has attacked our movement, or myself personally. They do this because they know we are a threat to the status quo. They saw 15,000 new memers join the party, many of them inspired by our campaign. Only yesterday, Elizabeth May retweeted a tweet saying that "I don't deserve to be leader of anything".

Let me be clear. This is an attack on democracy, youth, progress, and ideas that threaten the status quo.

On the eve of the election, the Party is trying to deny the members the right to choose. If they, and other candidates, truly support grassroots democracy, that choice must be maintained.

I have 48 hours (until 3:00 PM ET on Thursday, 24 Septemember 2020), to appeal this process.

Help us make it loud and clear that we will not be silenced. Thank you for your solidarity.

It looks like May and the executive are trying to control the election. They also tried to stop Lascaris from running.

The more I learn the more important it becomes that Paul does not win nor West of course but I don't think he is a threat.

May and team must be getting worried. Paul's high fundraising numbers are a reflection of May and the establishment support.

Wed, 2020-09-23 12:10

#41

Michael Moriarity

If Lascaris should win the Green Party leadership, I predict that the mainstream media (especially the CBC) will thoroughly Corbynize him. In particular, there will be articles in various publications every day claiming that he is an anti-semite, a Russian spy, and all sorts of other ridiculous claims. It will be interesting to see if this works in Canada as well as it did in the UK. I suspect it will be somewhat less successful because the Greens are nowhere near forming government. I also predict that the NDP will use these dishonest arguments against the Greens in the next election. Should this come to pass, I will find it very difficult to vote NDP.

Wed, 2020-09-23 13:19

#42

Misfit

She told Stuart Parker to resign for his transphobic comments.

I think the Greens are looking for the slightest excuse to disqualify Lascarius as well. They don't want the Green Party to be ecosocialist.

I still say that reforming the NDP and shifting it back to the way it was before is the best way to go. The natural support base for that kind of change is within the NDP and not the Greens.

Wed, 2020-09-23 14:06

#43

Aristotleded24

I hear you Michael. Here in Winnipeg Centre, the Greens are a long way from being viable contenders, and they are up against an entrenched provincial NDP establishment that will pull out all the stops to prevent that from happening. If the conflict you describe between the Greens and the NDP comes to pass and spills over into Winnipeg Centre, you are going to have many angry, bitter, and entrenched people in both parties. This could prevent the unity required to elect an NDP or Green candiate, resulting in this riding becoming a safe Liberal seat federally for some time.

Wed, 2020-09-23 14:33

#44

jerrym

Here's more on what's happening to Meryam Haddad. The article mentions the disqualification of Montreal environmental activist Dylan Perceval-Maxwell in June, something I hadn't heard about before, although I had heard about the unsuccessful rejection of the candidacy of Dimitri Lascaris.

I am starting to wonder about the number of party purity tests being applied by the establishment.

Montreal lawyer Meryam Haddad is appealing after the Green Party expelled her from its leadership contest Tuesday.

Haddad says she was informed Tuesday afternoon that the party was taking her off the ballot, citing violations of the party’s code of conduct. “I truly hope the Green Party reconsiders for the sake of the members and democracy,” she said in a tweet.

The decision comes just days before electronic voting begins for the party to choose its next leader. Almost 35,000 people are signed up to vote in the contest, with the winner to be announced in Ottawa Oct. 3. Electronic voting begins Sept. 26. Fewer than 300 members requested a mail-in ballot, leaving the rest to cast their vote electronically.

Haddad is the second Green candidate to be expelled from the race. In June, Montreal environmental activist Dylan Perceval-Maxwell was forced out after he made a comment during a virtual debate that police should have to pay $20 to every person of colour they stop, as compensation for the trauma and as an incentive for police to think twice about why they are stopping someone.

Haddad was among those who complained about the comment, and in that debate called it “super racist.” Nova Scotia veteran Judy Green withdrew herself from the contest in August and endorsed British Columbia lawyer David Merner. ...

Haddad says she believes the decision to remove her is motivated by fear her campaign has been upsetting the “status quo.” “This is not the first time the (Green Party of Canada) establishment has attacked our movement or myself personally,” Haddad said.

She noted that former leader Elizabeth May, who remains a strong force within the party as an MP and parliamentary leader, recently retweeted a comment slamming Haddad after she threw her support in the B.C. provincial election to the new B.C. Ecosocialists party, over both the provincial NDP and Green Party. May retweeted a tweet accusing Haddad of “stabbing your provincial cousins in the back.” and saying Haddad did not “deserve to be leader of anything.”

A party spokeswoman says there will be no further comment until after Haddad’s appeal is heard.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-green-party-expels-mont...

Wed, 2020-09-23 14:57

#45

NDPP

Lascaris: It's time to slash military spending and tax the super rich in Canada, argues Green Party leadership candidate

https://twitter.com/ricochet_en/status/1308766172901511169

"True leaders don't manufacture the consent of the governed, they earn it..."

Wed, 2020-09-23 15:13

#46

NDPP

Waterloo GPC Leadership Debates: Wed, Sept 23, 7:00 pm EDT

https://twitter.com/dimitrilascaris/status/1308411774497161226

"Join the candidates as they discuss platforms and visions for the Green Party of Canada. Connect on zoom..."

Wed, 2020-09-23 15:22

#47

NDPP

"As I stated at the end of last night's leadership debate, Meryam Haddad's voice has enriched the debate in the Green Party leadership contest and I very much hope she will be allowed back into the race after being accorded due process in her appeal."

https://twitter.com/dimitrilascaris/status/1308844885198413825

Wed, 2020-09-23 16:16

(Reply to #47) #48

Ken Burch

nicky wrote:

A cautionary tale about the Greens

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/us/politics/green-party-republicans-hawkins.html

That is about the situation with the U.S. Greens and their supposed role in rigging the Electoral College against Democratic presidential candidates. It has no relevance to Canadian politics, since the equivalent situation would not obtain.

I agree that the Greens have been problematic and too far to the right in the past. It appears they could make a major change on that approach depending on who they elect as leader this October.

If the Greens move left, the NDP needs to outflank them; it needs to embrace a radical critique of the foreign policy status quo and to come out fully in support of the ideas of the Leap-especially the need to do intervention in the economy to create new jobs for people in extractive industries whose current jobs will need to go away if the planet is to survive.

The NDP will need to become a party that says "to help ordinary working people, we need to deal with the climate crisis and we need to make war, as much as possible, a thing of the past-especially war involving military intervention in non-European countries-because if we don't make those changes, we won't have the resources and the funds we need to make life better for anyone".

Wed, 2020-09-23 17:10

#49

nicky

No Ken, the electoral college is beside the point which is that the right often promotes the Greens in order to split the so called progressive vote.

a couple elections ago, for example, Christie Clark’ party took out a front page add in the Vancouver papers to promote the Greens.

the Right knows that the Greens often ensure conservative power. Harper for example in 2011 owed his majority to seats where the Greens got more votes than the Con margin.

Wed, 2020-09-23 17:18

(Reply to #49) #50

Michael Moriarity

nicky wrote:

the Right knows that the Greens often ensure conservative power. Harper for example in 2011 owed his majority to seats where the Greens got more votes than the Con margin.

nicky, nicky, you are a Liberal at heart, whether you like it or not, and it's about time you came out of the closet.

Wed, 2020-09-23 18:10

(Reply to #50) #51

Ken Burch

nicky wrote:

No Ken, the electoral college is beside the point which is that the right often promotes the Greens in order to split the so called progressive vote.

a couple elections ago, for example, Christie Clark’ party took out a front page add in the Vancouver papers to promote the Greens.

the Right knows that the Greens often ensure conservative power. Harper for example in 2011 owed his majority to seats where the Greens got more votes than the Con margin.

The only time tactics like that can work is if the NDP "tacks to the centre" and goes out of its way to blur the differences between them and the Liberals.

The way to make sure it doesn't work-since there's nobody who ONLY votes NDP these days because it's to the right of where it was in the Sixties- is to make sure the NDP has a clear, distinctive, and transformative identity, that it addresses real issues, pledges real changes, and is, at all times, clearly different from the Libs and the Cons.

Green Party coup

Pages