Is R0 all for naught?

7 posts / 0 new
Last post
Aristotleded24
Is R0 all for naught?

Interesting piece in The Atlantic:

Quote:
There’s something strange about this coronavirus pandemic. Even after months of extensive research by the global scientific community, many questions remain open.

Why, for instance, was there such an enormous death toll in northern Italy, but not the rest of the country? Just three contiguous regions in northern Italy have 25,000 of the country’s nearly 36,000 total deaths; just one region, Lombardy, has about 17,000 deaths. Almost all of these were concentrated in the first few months of the outbreak. What happened in Quito, Ecuador, in April, when so many thousands died so quickly that bodies were abandoned in the sidewalks and streets? Why, in the spring of 2020, did so few cities account for a substantial portion of global deaths, while many others with similar density, weather, age distribution, and travel patterns were spared? What can we really learn from Sweden, hailed as a great success by some because of its low case counts and deaths as the rest of Europe experiences a second wave, and as a big failure by others because it did not lock down and suffered excessive death rates earlier in the pandemic? Why did widespread predictions of catastrophe in Japan not bear out? The baffling examples go on.

...

The now-famed R0 (pronounced as “r-naught”) is an average measure of a pathogen’s contagiousness, or the mean number of susceptible people expected to become infected after being exposed to a person with the disease. If one ill person infects three others on average, the R0 is three. This parameter has been widely touted as a key factor in understanding how the pandemic operates. News media have produced multiple explainers and visualizations for it. Movies praised for their scientific accuracy on pandemics are lauded for having characters explain the “all-important” R0. Dashboards track its real-time evolution, often referred to as R or Rt, in response to our interventions. (If people are masking and isolating or immunity is rising, a disease can’t spread the same way anymore, hence the difference between R0 and R.)

Unfortunately, averages aren’t always useful for understanding the distribution of a phenomenon, especially if it has widely varying behavior. If Amazon’s CEO, Jeff Bezos, walks into a bar with 100 regular people in it, the average wealth in that bar suddenly exceeds $1 billion. If I also walk into that bar, not much will change. Clearly, the average is not that useful a number to understand the distribution of wealth in that bar, or how to change it. Sometimes, the mean is not the message. Meanwhile, if the bar has a person infected with COVID-19, and if it is also poorly ventilated and loud, causing people to speak loudly at close range, almost everyone in the room could potentially be infected—a pattern that’s been observed many times since the pandemic begin, and that is similarly not captured by R. That’s where the dispersion comes in.

There are COVID-19 incidents in which a single person likely infected 80 percent or more of the people in the room in just a few hours. But, at other times, COVID-19 can be surprisingly much less contagious. Overdispersion and super-spreading of this virus are found in research across the globe. A growing number of studies estimate that a majority of infected people may not infect a single other person. A recent paper found that in Hong Kong, which had extensive testing and contact tracing, about 19 percent of cases were responsible for 80 percent of transmission, while 69 percent of cases did not infect another person. This finding is not rare: Multiple studies from the beginning have suggested that as few as 10 to 20 percent of infected people may be responsible for as much as 80 to 90 percent of transmission, and that many people barely transmit it.

...

This kind of behavior, alternating between being super infectious and fairly noninfectious, is exactly what k captures, and what focusing solely on R hides. Samuel Scarpino, an assistant professor of epidemiology and complex systems at Northeastern, told me that this has been a huge challenge, especially for health authorities in Western societies, where the pandemic playbook was geared toward the flu—and not without reason, because pandemic flu is a genuine threat. However, influenza does not have the same level of clustering behavior.

...

Cevik identifies “prolonged contact, poor ventilation, [a] highly infectious person, [and] crowding” as the key elements for a super-spreader event. Super-spreading can also occur indoors beyond the six-feet guideline, because SARS-CoV-2, the pathogen causing COVID-19, can travel through the air and accumulate, especially if ventilation is poor. Given that some people infect others before they show symptoms, or when they have very mild or even no symptoms, it’s not always possible to know if we are highly infectious ourselves. We don’t even know if there are more factors yet to be discovered that influence super-spreading. But we don’t need to know all the sufficient factors that go into a super-spreading event to avoid what seems to be a necessary condition most of the time: many people, especially in a poorly ventilated indoor setting, and especially not wearing masks. As Natalie Dean, a biostatistician at the University of Florida, told me, given the huge numbers associated with these clusters, targeting them would be very effective in getting our transmission numbers down.

Overdispersion should also inform our contact-tracing efforts. In fact, we may need to turn them upside down. Right now, many states and nations engage in what is called forward or prospective contact tracing. Once an infected person is identified, we try to find out with whom they interacted afterward so that we can warn, test, isolate, and quarantine these potential exposures. But that’s not the only way to trace contacts. And, because of overdispersion, it’s not necessarily where the most bang for the buck lies. Instead, in many cases, we should try to work backwards to see who first infected the subject.

Is this a possible breakthrough? Does knowing this give us enough of a basis upon which to be more specific in targeting covid where it actually spreads?

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

This article makes it abundantly clear that large gatherings -- whether socially distanced or not -- have no place during the pandemic, because they can become "super-spreader" events if an infected person who is spewing the virus shows up.

This article also clearly argues that "super-spreader" events are the primary means by which COVOD gets transmitted. In my book this would include both large social gatherings, but also workplace outbreaks where one person infects multiple people in a workplace.

The other thing that jumped out at me in the article is that 19 percent of COVID patients are responsible for 8o percent of COVID transmission. This is probably up to a combination of behaviour and epistemeological factors (how much virus and infected person can spew out -- which, if this article is to be believed, can vary a lot).

One conclusion that I draw from the article is that the number of settings where people can contract COVID may be relatively small, but that the risk of infection in these settings may be very high.

NDPP

Too many  COVID threads.

Aristotleded24

Left Turn wrote:
This article makes it abundantly clear that large gatherings -- whether socially distanced or not -- have no place during the pandemic, because they can become "super-spreader" events if an infected person who is spewing the virus shows up.

Then that means that until the pandemic is over, there should never be any public demonstrations supporting BLM, climate strikes, respect for First Nations, protection of the working class, or challenging despotic and authoritarian leaders.

Pondering

Aristotleded24 wrote:
Then that means that until the pandemic is over, there should never be any public demonstrations supporting BLM, climate strikes, respect for First Nations, protection of the working class, or challenging despotic and authoritarian leaders.

It isn't all or nothing. We aren't trying to eradicate Covid we are trying to slow down the transmission. We expect transmission to continue until we have a vaccine or indefinitely if no vaccine is ever developed which is extremely unlikely. 

Demonstrations by their nature cannot be stopped without extreme measures we don't tolerate in a free society such as our own or are impractical. Demonstrations are normally outdoors and people are wearing masks and socially distancing so the risk is less than  being confined in a house party. 

We live in a democracy therefore the consent of the governed is required. The grand majority of Canadians want restrictions to prevent the spread of Covid becacuse covidiots risk the lives of everyone not just themselves. 

Aristotleded24

Pondering wrote:
Demonstrations by their nature cannot be stopped without extreme measures we don't tolerate in a free society such as our own or are impractical. Demonstrations are normally outdoors and people are wearing masks and socially distancing so the risk is less than  being confined in a house party.

The issue is one of consistency and hypocrisy. I documented at the time that many of the same people who amplified the message that strict lockdown and social isolation was necessary were cheering on the BLM protesters when they went into the streets. And yes, many protesters did flout the masking and social distancing requirements that public health officials are telling us are important. If you want to insist that people reduce gatherings outside the home, not go to religious services or sing, that people close their businesses, you cannot then all of a sudden cheer on people who break those rules just because you agree with what they are advocating. One of the things that turns off average people from politics is they see this hypocrisy, that the ends justify the means if it's something I agree with, and they tune it out.

Pondering wrote:
We live in a democracy therefore the consent of the governed is required.

The only democratic decision making that has happened regarding the response to covid is municipalities passing mask wearing by-laws. People are free to argue for or against that bylaw, and then we make a decision as a society through our elected representatives which way we want to go. We also retain the power to revisit that decision at a later time. When medical officers of health can shut down businesses or impose restrictions, that is an arbitrary use of power. You can make the arguemt that it is justified in the name of public health, but arbitrary power is arbitrary power.

Additionally, Manitoba has a colour-coded pandemic alert system that governe nearly every aspect of our lives. An unelected government official decides all of this for us. If there had been a majority vote in the Legislature granting this power, that would be one thing. As far as I know, it was simply imposed on us here in Manitoba without much in the way of public debate or consultation, and without the approval of our democratically elected representatives. If there was such a vote in the Legislature and you can demonstrate to me, I will eat my words on this particular aspect.

Pondering wrote:
The grand majority of Canadians want restrictions to prevent the spread of Covid becacuse covidiots risk the lives of everyone not just themselves.

I don't care what public opinion polls state during a time of perceived crisis. One of the reasons people are afraid is that the media is constantly choosing to tell stories about the coronavirus, often at the expense of more important issues. The other reason is that in times of perceived crisis, people want to be protected. C-51 had massive public support at the time it was introduced. The sweeping changes brought about by the Patriot Act were supported by the public at the time. Even here in Winnipeg, the police continue to eat up a larger portion of the city budget without any discernable impact on actual or perceived public safety. One of the reason for that is because people are afraid that random bad guys are going to come and get them (it's well documented that crime, especially violent crime, happens between people who know each other) and they demand more police officers to protect them.

I know people are afraid of coronavirus. Public perception, especially when it comes to fear, is often out of step with the actual threat posed.

Pondering

I know people are afraid of coronavirus. Public perception, especially when it comes to fear, is often out of step with the actual threat posed.

I disagree. I see people trying to follow public health recommendations and rules but not doing so 100% which suggests people are not afraid. I am not experiencing fear when I fasten my seatbelt. It's just a precaution. I see reasonable concern and questioning of specific measures not fearful behaviors. 

You are accusing people of being "fearful" because you believe their concerns are out of proportion to the threat but that is your opinion. You have failed to convince anyone here that the threat is exagerated. 

All those things you complain about we are free to change through the electoral system and protests. I hear more complaints of things opening up too soon not too late. Those opinions are not based on media hype but on factual information about the spread in local communities. 

Atlantic Canada has opened up and formed a bubble because they have controlled it.