Right wing conspiracy theories? Babble just jumped the shark
2020 USA presidential election
Thu, 2020-10-15 19:32
#752
alan smithee
Thu, 2020-10-15 20:39
#753
[quote=josh]
Nothing like RussoRepublican spiel.
[quote=NDPP]
First time tragicomedy second time farce:
MSNBC: Trump and the Russians
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1316849759081181184
"Unlikely but possible that Trump has been Russian intel asset since 1987..."
Thu, 2020-10-15 21:16
#754
Federal investigators are examining whether the emails allegedly describing activities by Joe Biden and his son Hunter and found on a laptop at a Delaware repair shop are linked to a foreign intelligence operation, two people familiar with the matter told NBC News.
. . . .
In January, Burisma’s networks were breached by Russian hackers, according to cybersecurity experts.
Fri, 2020-10-16 12:35
#755
Pepe Escobar: POTUS Punk vs Dem Dementia
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/10/15/potus-punk-vs-dem-deme...
"The whole planet is enthralled, appalled, shocked and awed by the spectacle of democracy as enacted under the shadow of messianic imperialism - complete with a slew of slimy smoking gun October Surprises. We're in total Frank Underwood territory..."
Sat, 2020-10-17 16:13
#756
Here's more on the Russian disinformation about Biden.
This week, the New York Post published a story based on what it says are emails — "smoking gun" emails, it calls them — sent by a Ukrainian business executive to the son of Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden. The story fits snugly into a narrative from President Trump and his allies that Hunter Biden's zealous pursuit of business ties abroad also compromised the former vice president.
Yet this was a story marked more by red flags than investigative rigor.
To start, the emails have not been verified as authentic. They were said to have been extracted from a computer assumed — but not proven — to have belonged to the younger Biden. They were said to have been given to the Post by Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, who is known for making discredited claims about the Bidens.
The venue is also suspect. The pro-Trump New York Post is owned by Rupert Murdoch, a steady supporter of the president despite recently casting doubt on Trump's reelection prospects. The lead reporter was a former producer for Sean Hannity, Trump's best friend on his favorite news network, Fox News, also controlled by the Murdochs. And the story asserted the existence of a meeting absent any documentation that it actually occurred. (The Biden campaign says the tabloid never sought comment on the veracity of the claims.)
The context also screams for caution: U.S. officials say Russian disinformation campaigns have sought to keep Hunter Biden's business dealings in the Ukraine in the public eye. According to The Washington Post, intelligence officials warned the White House last year that Russian operatives had sought to give misinformation to Giuliani to be used against the Bidens. And NBC is now reporting that the FBI is investigating whether the material in the New York Post story originated in a foreign power's disinformation campaign.
With all these warning signs, other news organizations, including NPR, have held back. Reporters who shared the New York Post story on social media found themselves denounced by Democrats and even many of their peers. Twitter blocked and Facebook restricted the spread of the story, rare moves that gave conservatives a chance for outrage regardless of the merits of the reporting. The social media giants soon found themselves on the defensive.
All of which obscured the problems with the New York Post's story itself, and those that followed.
So here are some quick highlights:
From pillar to post, the tabloid asserted as fact things presumed to be true. While the headline links the former vice president to his son's business dealings, the story serves up no proof. It rests upon an email, supposedly from an Ukrainian businessman to the younger Biden, thanking him for "an opportunity to meet your father."
Biden's campaign spokesman, Andrew Bates, responded, "We have reviewed Joe Biden's official schedules from the time and no meeting, as alleged by the New York Post, ever took place." ...
Second, let's talk about the origin of those emails, working backward from the article's account. The New York Post secured them from a copy of a laptop's hard drive given to the paper by Giuliani, after learning of their existence from former Trump campaign CEO and political adviser Steve Bannon.
The laptop had been taken to a repair shop in Delaware; its owner appears to have reviewed its contents and given it to the FBI, after making a copy and delivering that to Giuliani's attorney. The New York Post reported that the computer repair specialist "couldn't positively identify the customer as Hunter Biden, but said the laptop bore a sticker from the Beau Biden Foundation, named after Hunter's late brother."
So, it's not clear who brought it in.
As it turns out, Bannon told a leading Dutch public broadcaster last month that he had a copy of Hunter Biden's hard drive.
Giuliani has repeatedly amplified discredited claims, to the point that Fox News' internal research team warned the network's journalists against relying upon him. Among the sources Giuliani turned to was a man whom the Trump administration's Treasury Department has designated as a Russian agent. Last month, Treasury officials said Andrii Derkach has pushed disinformation in Ukraine to spur unfounded corruption investigations and media coverage in hopes of damaging Biden and influencing the 2020 race. Giuliani did not respond to a message seeking comment for this story.
This story would fit neatly within that rubric. We don't know whether those emails were somehow hacked and doctored, or completely fabricated. ...
Shall we turn to the reporter with the lead byline for a moment?
Post deputy political editor Emma-Jo Morris' reports on Biden this past week constitute the sum total of her professional bylines. Prior to joining the Post in early spring, Morris' most prominent media job involved her three years and eight months as a producer for Hannity, the Fox News star who is one of the president's closest advisers. Morris did not reply to requests for comment sent to her social media accounts. ...
The New York Post's story and its ensuing allegations against Hunter Biden, based on the same cache of material, has propelled its corporate cousin as well. As the days tick down toward Election Day, Fox News took inspiration from the tabloid's reporting to unleash a fusillade against the former vice president across its most watched shows — like the grand finale of a fireworks display.
None of that sound and fury requires the rest of the press to accept those claims as true. They shouldn't. Not without additional reporting and verification.
https://www.npr.org/2020/10/17/924506867/analysis-questionable-n-y-post-...
Sat, 2020-10-17 17:14
#757
I glad that the reports of American carpet baggers stealing from the Ukrainian commons does not include the Bidens. Also I am very impressed that with the level of documented corruption that they are so lily white, I am actually incredulous.
After all its not like Biden was linked to SNC-Lavalin or some other nefarious corporation.
Sat, 2020-10-17 18:31
#758
Sure, the U.S. Treasury Department may have declared one of his former associates—Ukrainian parliamentarian Andrii Derkach, who worked with Giuliani on his hunt for dirt on the Bidens—to be an “active Russian agent.” But that’s some Deep State talk, he added. “The chance that Derkach is a Russian spy is no better than 50/50.”
"My guess is that George Soros is behind this counter-offensive… because he wants to create a socialist country,” Giuliani baselessly alleged. “He’d like to see us collapse and see us taken over by the international... whatever.” Giuliani said that Derkach’s eventual sanctioning was the result of “an intelligence ploy to try to create problems for Trump—because Derkach could probably bury Obama.”
Sun, 2020-10-18 02:02
#759
The Jimmy Dore Show
"Social Media Censoring Hunter Biden Article"
Adelsons Got a Lot from Trump for $75 m - But Media Won't Tell You That.
https://mondoweiss.net/2020/10/edelsons-got-a-lot-from-trump-for-75-mill...
"...Many news outlets have now reported the outsize sum, which is plainly important to Trump's flailing campaign. Oddly, none of them is reporting the Adelsons' number one issue, Israel, or the fact that Miriam Adelson is Israeli, or that the Adelsons are close to Netanyahu, or that our transactional president has done just about everything Israel wants. Nope, the big story is still Russian influence..."
Emma Goldman and Lesser Evilism
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/16/emma-goldman-and-lesser-evilism
"A century ago, battling the monstrous power of rampant Capitalism, Emma Goldman said, 'If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.' She said that the core purpose of 'democratic' government had nothing to do with improving the lot of its people and everything to do with maximizing profit for the Capitalist juggernaut. No country on earth has greater government/Capitalism symbiosis than America."
Sun, 2020-10-18 06:39
#760
3/ Andriy Derkach was a top Russian agent. He was unmasked by the Treasury Dept this summer. Derkach and his team recruited Guiliani and have been feeding him info all year.
https://twitter.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1317449900787929089?s=20
Sun, 2020-10-18 13:20
#761
"You promoted Russiagate, the conspiracy theory that Trump conspired with Russia and that memes/emails duped voters into not backing [Crooked] Hillary. If you weren't so vested in Russiagate disinformation you wouldn't give GOP the new gift of pretending that Hunter's emails are a Russian op."
Sun, 2020-10-18 15:25
#762
Think Mate's logic is a twisted pretzel. Guiliani is peddling Russian disinformation. And Russia is pulling out all the stops to elect Trump, just as in 2016.
Sun, 2020-10-18 15:44
#763
Republican Nebraska Senator Ben Sasse has levelled a blistering barrage of criticism on Trump, but of course only after he won his primary and voted against Trump's impeachment. As miniscule courage as Sasse has shown, many other Republican senators tell journalists off the record much the same, but cannot even muster Sasse's puny level of courage. Sorry Ben, despite denials, you're only jumping off the Trump train now that it seems convenient.
Sen. Ben Sasse, R-Neb., launched a blistering attack on President Donald Trump and his leadership this week while speaking to constituents, warning that there would be a "Republican bloodbath" in the Senate if Trump loses the White House. ...
[Sasse said] "The way he kisses dictators' butts. I mean, the way he ignores that the Uighurs are in literal concentration camps in Xinjiang right now. He hasn't lifted a finger on behalf of the Hong Kongers." ...
"The United States now regularly sells out our allies under his leadership, the way he treats women, spends like a drunken sailor," Sasse continued, adding that Trump "mocks evangelicals behind closed doors...has treated the presidency like a business opportunity" and has "flirted with white supremacists."
Sasse said that Trump is "driving the country further to the left" and he said it "looks likely that he’s going to take the Senate down with him" if he loses the White House in the upcoming election.
"I'm now looking at the possibility of a Republican bloodbath in the Senate, and that's why I've never been on the Trump train," he said. ...
"The debate is not going to be, ‘Ben Sasse, why were you so mean to Donald Trump?'" Sasse said. "It's going to be, 'What the heck were any of us thinking, that selling a TV-obsessed, narcissistic individual to the American people was a good idea?'"
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/gop-sen-sasse-unleashes-scathi...
Sun, 2020-10-18 15:30
#764
US authorities are investigating whether recently published emails that purport to detail the business dealings of Joe Biden's son in Ukraine and China are connected to an ongoing Russian disinformation effort targeting the former vice president's campaign, a US official and a congressional source briefed on the matter said.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/16/politics/russian-disinformation-investigation/index.html
Sun, 2020-10-18 19:18
#765
Good advice from Nate Silver as usual:
8 Tips To Stay Sane In The Final 15 Days Of The Campaign
By Nate Silver
Filed under 2020 Election
ILLUSTRATION BY FIVETHIRTYEIGHT / FABIO BUONOCORE
We’re in the final stretch of the campaign, with just 15 days to go until the election. Indeed, “the election” is something of a misnomer, since early or mail voting is already underway in most states and around 30 million people have already cast ballots.
This is a period of high anxiety for almost everybody. So here are a few tips for how to process news and polls over the final two weeks. I’m going to keep these fairly short and sweet; we’ll save the more philosophical stuff about election forecasting, etc. for elsewhere.
1. Keep the context of the COVID-19 pandemic in mind.
The most important story in the country is that 210,000 Americans and counting have died from the coronavirus, plus virtually everybody’s lives have been disrupted in some way by the pandemic. And far from the U.S. having turned the corner, cases and hospitalizations are growing again in most parts of the country. President Trump’s approval ratings on COVID-19 are poor, too, considerably worse than his overall approval numbers. The pandemic isn’t a new story, but it’s liable to be more important to votersthan, say, whatever is in Hunter Biden’s emails
2. Don’t assume the race is in the bag for Biden.
Although COVID-19 and other issues make Trump’s road to reelection difficult, he still has a 12 percent chance of winning the Electoral College, according to the FiveThirtyEight model as of Sunday afternoon. And if Joe Biden maintains his current lead in the polls, Trump’s chances will fall further — although the forecast thinks it’s more likely that the race will tighten.
But say Trump’s chances do decline further — to 5 percent by Election Day, for example — I’d keep a few things in mind.
First, even a 5 percent chance is something you ought to take seriously if the consequences are very high, something I think both Trump and Biden supporters would say is true of this election. And second, the outcomes in this election aren’t entirely binary. Say Biden wins: His margin of victory will still be heavily scrutinized. Does he win by double digits nationally? Does he win a state like Texas? This could affect both the degree to which Democrats pursue a more aggressive agenda, and the extent to which Republicans regard Trumpism as having been repudiated. Also, many Senate races are competitive, and having control of 50 versus 52 versus 54 or more Senate seats will greatly affect Biden’s first two years in office. Statewide races matter too, especially in states where control of the redistricting process is still in play.
3. But also don’t buy the narrative that “polling is broken.”
Polling is an imperfect instrument, more so in some years than others. However, 2016 — while far from a banner year from the polls — was not quite so bad as some critics assume. The national polls were pretty good, and Trump’s wins in the swing states were not that surprising based on the close margins in those states beforehand. The 2018 midterms was one of the more accurate years for polling on record, meanwhile.
One other thing to keep in mind about polls in an election like this one: They do provide some way to measure public sentiment, however imperfect, independent of election results, which could be important if the election is disputed. It’s not surprising then that Trump frequently disparages polls — which could give Americans more confidence about the results if they closely resemble the polls — when he’s also repeatedly failed to commit to accepting the results of the election.
4. Don’t get too obsessed with comparisons to 2016.
I know it’s fashionable to make comparisons between 2016 and 2020, and to discuss the various ways in which they might or might not be similar (there are fewer undecided voters this year, for instance). But to some extent, I think those comparisons are misguided. You shouldn’t make too much of a sample size of one election. And you should avoid thinking in binaries, i.e., that the polls will either be “wrong” or “right.” Instead, it’s more of a spectrum: The larger Biden’s lead in the tipping-point states, the more that polls could be wrong and he could win anyway. And there’s also no guarantee that a polling error will work in Trump’s favor as it did in 2016. In 2012, polls underestimated then-President Barack Obama and Democrats instead.
At the same time, while there is no particular reason to think that polls will be wrong in exactly the same ways that they were in 2016, there are also precedents for larger polling errors than the one we experienced in 2016. The final Gallup poll in 1948 had Harry Truman 5 points behind Thomas Dewey, for example, but Truman actually won by 4 points, making for a 9-point polling error. A polling error of that magnitude probably would be enough for Trump to win the Electoral College, although not necessarily the popular vote.
5. Don’t pay much attention to individual polls; wait for polling averages to move.
This is perhaps the single piece of advice we give most often at FiveThirtyEight, but it’s especially important in the final couple weeks of a campaign. After a lull this weekend, there are likely to be a lot of polls the rest of the way out. On any given day, it will be possible to take the 2 or 3 best polls for Biden and tell a story of his holding or expanding his lead, or the 2 or 3 best polls for Trump and make a claim that the race is tightening.
Resist buying too much into those narratives. Instead, turn to polling averages like FiveThirtyEight’s that are smart at distinguishing (ahem) the signal from the noise. We do program our averages to be more aggressive in the closing days of the campaign — so if there’s a shift in the race, our average should start to detect it within a few days. But while there is such a thing as underreacting to news developments,1 the more common problem in the last days of a campaign is false positives, with partisans and the media trying to hype big swings in the polls when they actually show a fairly steady race.
6. Beware talk of “October Surprises.” They’re usually overhyped.
Indeed, while the Comey letter really did matter in 2016, contributing to a 3-point shift toward Trump in the waning days of the campaign, it’s more the exception than the rule. On average, in elections since 1972,2 national polling averages shifted by an average of 1.8 points and a median of just 1.4 points in the final 15 days of the race.
The final two weeks usually don’t change much
How much the national polling margin changed between 15 days before the presidential election and Election Day, since 1972
LEADER IN FIVETHIRTYEIGHT NATIONAL POLLING AVERAGEYEAR15 DAYS BEFORE ELECTION
ELECTION DAY
CHANGE2016Clinton+6.9Clinton+3.8+3.12012Romney+1.2Obama+0.4+1.62008Obama+6.8Obama+7.1+0.32004Bush+2.4Bush+1.6+0.82000Bush+2.7Bush+3.5+0.81996Clinton+14.9Clinton+12.8+2.11992Clinton+14.1Clinton+7.1+7.01988Bush+11.8Bush+10.4+1.41984Reagan+16.7Reagan+18.0+1.31980Reagan+2.3Reagan+2.1+0.21976Carter+2.0Carter+0.8+1.21972Nixon+25.5Nixon+24.1+1.4
The averages listed are calculated retroactively based on FiveThirtyEight’s current polling average methodology.
Also, keep in mind that relatively few voters are undecided this year, and that many people have already voted, which could dampen the effect of any last-minute news developments.
7. Don’t read too much into the campaigns’ behavior.
These last two points are things I’ve learned by experience. There’s enough conflicting information in the final days of the campaign that it can help to triage, and one category of information I’d generally ignore are reports about how the Biden or Trump campaigns are feeling about the race. Even if reporters have good access into campaigns and are accurately reflecting their thinking, presidential campaigns often do not have a better read on the race than public polls. Campaigns are often just as surprised by unexpected results as anyone else; the Trump campaign’s models gave it a 30 percent chance of winning the Electoral College on the eve of the election in 2016, the same as FiveThirtyEight’s forecast did. And of course, less diligent reporters are subject to being spun by the campaigns, or to publishing information that is designed to deceive or bluff the campaign’s opponents.
8. Don’t get carried away with early voting data.
Democrats have a huge edge in early voting so far … but as I talked about on my weekly segment for ABC’s “This Week,” I’m not sure I’d read too much into it. The early-voting lead for Democrats is largely in line with what polls predicted, and Republicans are likely to draw the race closer with a huge Election Day turnout. Moreover, our experience in past elections is that people tend to read more into early voting data than is warranted and often cherry-pick data in ways that are favorable to their preferred party or candidate.
Also, the huge partisan split in early in-person voting and mail voting is new — historically, it was something that both parties took advantage of — and that makes it hard to put it into context. Maybe it really will turn out to be a bad sign for Republicans that Democrats are banking so many votes. Or maybe Democrats will underperform polls because mail votes have a higher rate of ballot spoilage. On balance I’d rather have a lot of votes locked in than not, but we’re flying pretty blind here. Besides, most polls try to account for early voting — for instance, by asking voters whether they’ve already voted — so to the extent that Democrats are benefiting from it, it should be reflected in the polls already.
It’s going to a long 15 days — and perhaps beyond, since we may not know the winner on Nov. 3. FiveThirtyEight will be providing all the content that you might want, from daily podcasts to near-constant updates of our forecast. But you’ll usually know all that you need to if you’re pacing yourself and only checking in with news coverage of the campaign once a day or a couple of times a week. Stay safe and stay sane, and we’ll enjoy watching the rest of the election with you.
Nate Silver is the founder and editor in chief of FiveThirtyEight. @natesilver538
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/8-tips-to-stay-sane-in-the-final-15...
Sun, 2020-10-18 20:20
#766
If the Democrats win all 3 on November 3rd, instead of adding, perhaps they could put age limits on the Supremes, say age 75 and minimum 50% female, and 33% non-white, whatever. Let the GOP howl, who cares!!! The next thing would be to round up all the anti-maskers and keep them in prisons on Trump's government-appropriated golf courses, to help pay his proper share of taxes of course. And then move on the IRA and declare Amnesty for American civilians to turn in their guns. I don't think most Americans realize how close they are coming to fascism, and the Democrats will need to move quickly and decisively to reverse the course.
Sun, 2020-10-18 22:23
#767
"50 years ago when Daniel Ellsberg gave the Pentagon Papers to the New York Times, Kissinger and HR Haldeman on Nixon's orders, spread the rumor he was a Russian spy acting for the Kremlin. This is the playbook the CIA has been using for decades - but now liberals and the media are on board."
Mon, 2020-10-19 01:18
#768
Rudy Guilani and Daniel Ellsberg. See if you can spot the difference.
Mon, 2020-10-19 01:32
#769
In late 2018, Rudy Giuliani and his team began creating propaganda to ensure that Biden would not be the Presidential candidate. Rudy's team included, Igor Fruman, @levparnas, Victoria Toensing, Joseph di Genova, John Solomon, Dmytro Firtash, Devin Nunes, and Derek Harvey.
https://mobile.twitter.com/thomasafine/status/1317756259253313536
Mon, 2020-10-19 10:00
#770
Here's more on the Russian disinformation about Biden.This week, the New York Post published a story based on what it says are emails — "smoking gun" emails, it calls them — sent by a Ukrainian business executive to the son of Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden. The story fits snugly into a narrative from President Trump and his allies that Hunter Biden's zealous pursuit of business ties abroad also compromised the former vice president.
Yet this was a story marked more by red flags than investigative rigor.
To start, the emails have not been verified as authentic. They were said to have been extracted from a computer assumed — but not proven — to have belonged to the younger Biden. They were said to have been given to the Post by Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, who is known for making discredited claims about the Bidens.
The venue is also suspect. The pro-Trump New York Post is owned by Rupert Murdoch, a steady supporter of the president despite recently casting doubt on Trump's reelection prospects. The lead reporter was a former producer for Sean Hannity, Trump's best friend on his favorite news network, Fox News, also controlled by the Murdochs. And the story asserted the existence of a meeting absent any documentation that it actually occurred. (The Biden campaign says the tabloid never sought comment on the veracity of the claims.)
The context also screams for caution: U.S. officials say Russian disinformation campaigns have sought to keep Hunter Biden's business dealings in the Ukraine in the public eye. According to The Washington Post, intelligence officials warned the White House last year that Russian operatives had sought to give misinformation to Giuliani to be used against the Bidens. And NBC is now reporting that the FBI is investigating whether the material in the New York Post story originated in a foreign power's disinformation campaign.
With all these warning signs, other news organizations, including NPR, have held back. Reporters who shared the New York Post story on social media found themselves denounced by Democrats and even many of their peers. Twitter blocked and Facebook restricted the spread of the story, rare moves that gave conservatives a chance for outrage regardless of the merits of the reporting. The social media giants soon found themselves on the defensive.
All of which obscured the problems with the New York Post's story itself, and those that followed.
So here are some quick highlights:
From pillar to post, the tabloid asserted as fact things presumed to be true. While the headline links the former vice president to his son's business dealings, the story serves up no proof. It rests upon an email, supposedly from an Ukrainian businessman to the younger Biden, thanking him for "an opportunity to meet your father."
Biden's campaign spokesman, Andrew Bates, responded, "We have reviewed Joe Biden's official schedules from the time and no meeting, as alleged by the New York Post, ever took place." ...
Second, let's talk about the origin of those emails, working backward from the article's account. The New York Post secured them from a copy of a laptop's hard drive given to the paper by Giuliani, after learning of their existence from former Trump campaign CEO and political adviser Steve Bannon.
The laptop had been taken to a repair shop in Delaware; its owner appears to have reviewed its contents and given it to the FBI, after making a copy and delivering that to Giuliani's attorney. The New York Post reported that the computer repair specialist "couldn't positively identify the customer as Hunter Biden, but said the laptop bore a sticker from the Beau Biden Foundation, named after Hunter's late brother."
So, it's not clear who brought it in.
As it turns out, Bannon told a leading Dutch public broadcaster last month that he had a copy of Hunter Biden's hard drive.
Giuliani has repeatedly amplified discredited claims, to the point that Fox News' internal research team warned the network's journalists against relying upon him. Among the sources Giuliani turned to was a man whom the Trump administration's Treasury Department has designated as a Russian agent. Last month, Treasury officials said Andrii Derkach has pushed disinformation in Ukraine to spur unfounded corruption investigations and media coverage in hopes of damaging Biden and influencing the 2020 race. Giuliani did not respond to a message seeking comment for this story.
This story would fit neatly within that rubric. We don't know whether those emails were somehow hacked and doctored, or completely fabricated. ...
Shall we turn to the reporter with the lead byline for a moment?
Post deputy political editor Emma-Jo Morris' reports on Biden this past week constitute the sum total of her professional bylines. Prior to joining the Post in early spring, Morris' most prominent media job involved her three years and eight months as a producer for Hannity, the Fox News star who is one of the president's closest advisers. Morris did not reply to requests for comment sent to her social media accounts. ...
The New York Post's story and its ensuing allegations against Hunter Biden, based on the same cache of material, has propelled its corporate cousin as well. As the days tick down toward Election Day, Fox News took inspiration from the tabloid's reporting to unleash a fusillade against the former vice president across its most watched shows — like the grand finale of a fireworks display.
None of that sound and fury requires the rest of the press to accept those claims as true. They shouldn't. Not without additional reporting and verification.
https://www.npr.org/2020/10/17/924506867/analysis-questionable-n-y-post-...
So it's the fault of the Russian government that the Bidens made whatever business decisions that are now under scrutiny?
Mon, 2020-10-19 10:21
#771
What "business decisions" did Joe Biden make?
Mon, 2020-10-19 10:33
#772
Here's more fake news
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/10/19/joe_bidens_lies_ab...
Mon, 2020-10-19 10:38
#773
Just the fact that whatever decisions Joe and Hunter made are now being placed under scrutiny and that scrutiny is being dismissed as "Russian propaganda."
There is legitimate concern about how Trump will respond should he be defeated at the polls. But make no mistake, the Democratic establishment has no moral high ground upon which to stand. There was an election in 2016, and under the rules both sides agreed to, Trump won fair and square. Most of us don't like that, but it is a basic fact. Instead of accepting that, they had large numbers of people throw temper tantrums in the street before the ink on the ballots was even dried, advocated a pointless campaign to try and convince the Electoral College to overturn the will of the voters in specific states, and tried to scapegoat Russia for their failures. Anything except taking an honest look in the mirror and reflecting on what happened and what they might do differently.
Mon, 2020-10-19 10:40
#774
Here's more fake news https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/10/19/joe_bidens_lies_ab...There were questions bubblilng beneath the surface about decisions made by the Bidens back in the Democratic Primary. That would have been a good time to litigate these claims. Instead Bernie swatted down any negative talk about "my friend Joe" and the media gave the Bidens a pass at the time. Perhaps if people are that concerned that the Biden's decisions would be a major liability for the campaign, they should have gone with a different candidate.
Mon, 2020-10-19 10:44
#775
Mon, 2020-10-19 10:51
#776
Just the fact that whatever decisions Joe and Hunter made are now being placed under scrutiny and that scrutiny is being dismissed as "Russian propaganda."
There is legitimate concern about how Trump will respond should he be defeated at the polls. But make no mistake, the Democratic establishment has no moral high ground upon which to stand. There was an election in 2016, and under the rules both sides agreed to, Trump won fair and square. Most of us don't like that, but it is a basic fact. Instead of accepting that, they had large numbers of people throw temper tantrums in the street before the ink on the ballots was even dried, advocated a pointless campaign to try and convince the Electoral College to overturn the will of the voters in specific states, and tried to scapegoat Russia for their failures. Anything except taking an honest look in the mirror and reflecting on what happened and what they might do differently.
Didn't answer my question. This involves Hunter, not Joe.
Mon, 2020-10-19 12:01
#777
"Whenever you hear Adam Schiff, intel officials or cable news pundits declare that someone is part of a 'Russian disinformation campaign', you can guarantee that they're saying so as part of a Russiagate disinformation campaign."
Mon, 2020-10-19 13:12
#778
Mon, 2020-10-19 19:36
#779
Mon, 2020-10-19 22:16
#780
"..While Trump will be campaigning all week, Biden decided to stay at home to prepare for the next debate. How can he defend himself against the corruption charges that his son's emails seem to support? The Democrats under Biden have shunned the progressive policies that brought the most enthusiasm to the primaries. Everyone presumes that the center-right Biden is just a stand-in who will be removed soon to be replaced by the center-right Kamala Harris. Harris has been Hillary Clinton's choice since at least 2017. During the primaries she never polled higher than 2%.
The other people behind the Biden/Harris campaigns are just the same war-makers who wreaked havoc all over the world during the Obama administration. If I had a vote in the upcoming election it would likely go to where it does the least harm - to some third party candidate who argues for more peaceful and more socialist policies."
Bolivia has Won. Will Trump Win Too?
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/10/bolivia-has-won-will-trump-win-too...
Mon, 2020-10-19 22:46
#781
What full control of the White House and Congress by the Democrats will look like
https://fivethirtyeight.com/videos/what-full-democratic-control-of-the-w...
Mon, 2020-10-19 22:56
#782
Trump's rude interruptions will be muted for next debate
https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2020/10/19/trump-biden-live-upd...
Mon, 2020-10-19 23:03
#783
Serious shit!
Should have been given jail time!
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/19/poll-w...
Mon, 2020-10-19 23:15
#784
Mon, 2020-10-19 23:26
#785
"The number of press outlets willing to use terms like 'misinformation' or 'disinformation' about this material, when the Biden camp is not even denying it's real, shows how far gone this situation is. Coverage is more overtly politicized than campaign rhetoric."
https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1318341819680292866
As with leak of DNC/Crooked Hillary emails, notice the panic and extreme measures including mass censorship by Twitter and Facebook to cover up Crooked Bidens in Ukraine revelations. Notice also attempts to redirect attention from their contents to a fictitious Russian culprit and how many Babble gullibles again swallow it all.
Tue, 2020-10-20 00:26
#786
Hopefully only 15 more days of this 4 year nitemare
Tue, 2020-10-20 00:33
#787
The sedition of Donald Trump
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/donald-trump-sed...
Tue, 2020-10-20 00:42
#788
Absolutely anything is within the realm of possibility from the Trump gang
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7k9z4a/qanon-is-running-the-pizzagate-pl...
Tue, 2020-10-20 00:50
#789
Tue, 2020-10-20 03:51
#790
Tue, 2020-10-20 06:15
#791
"The number of press outlets willing to use terms like 'misinformation' or 'disinformation' about this material, when the Biden camp is not even denying it's real, shows how far gone this situation is. Coverage is more overtly politicized than campaign rhetoric."
https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1318341819680292866
As with leak of DNC/Crooked Hillary emails, notice the panic and extreme measures including mass censorship by Twitter and Facebook to cover up Crooked Bidens in Ukraine revelations. Notice also attempts to redirect attention from their contents to a fictitious Russian culprit and how many Babble gullibles again swallow it all.
Elect Trump!
Tue, 2020-10-20 12:56
#792
American Gothic Horror
https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/american-gothic-horror/
"I have a theory about Joe Biden. He didn't want to run for president. Not one eensy-weensy bit. He wanted a nice quiet retirement with his fat government pension plus sundry millions that had somehow found its way into his bank account over the years. He had a fabulous $16-million gentleman's estate to gambol upon with his beloved grandchildren. The developing brain-fog was actually a comfort, allowing him to forget the rigors of public service and all the tedious gatherings of ...honoraria, shall we say. But then they came for him. The Party called..."
The Politics of Cultural Despair
https://www.mintpressnews.com/chris-hedges-the-politics-of-cultural-desp...
"...Political coverage is modeled, as Taibbi points out, on sports coverage. This coverage masks the fact that on nearly all the major issues the two major political parties are in complete agreement. The goal is to set demographic against demographic. This stoking of antagonism is not news. It is entertainment, driven not by journalism but marketing strategies to increase viewership and corporate sponsors. News divisions are corporate revenue streams. The template for news, as Taibbi writes in his book Hate Inc, the cover of which has Sean Hannity on one side and Rachel Maddow on the other, is the simplified morality play used in professional wrestling. There are only two real political positions in the United States. You love Trump or you hate him, which is from the playbook of professional wrestling.
By voting for Biden and the Democratic Party you vote for something...You vote for the architects of endless wars in the Middle East. You vote for the apartheid state in Israel. You vote for wholesale surveillance of the public by government intelligence agencies and the abolition of due process and habeus corpus. You vote for austerity programs, including the destruction of welfare and cuts to Social Security. You vote for NAFTA, free trade deals, de-industrialization, a real decline in wages, the loss of hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs and the offshoring of jobs to underpaid workers who toil in sweatshops in Mexico, China or Vietnam. You vote for the defense budgets that consume more than half of all discretionary spending. You vote for the use of unlimited oligarchic and corporate money to buy our elections.
You vote for a politician who during his time in the Senate abjectly served the interests of MBNA, the largest independent credit card company headquartered in Delaware, which also employed Biden's son Hunter. Biden was one of the principle architects of wars in the Middle East, where we have squandered upwards of $7 trillion and destroyed or extinguished the lives of millions of people. He is responsible for more suffering and death at home and abroad than Trump. If we had a functioning judicial and legislative system, Biden, along with the other disastrous imperial wars, corporate plundering of the country and betrayal of the American working class, would be put on trial, not offered up as a solution to our politcal and economic debacle. The culture wars mask the reality. Both parties are full partners in the destruction of our democratic institutions. Both parties have reconfigured American society into a mafia state. It only depends on how you want it dressed up..."
The Jimmy Dore Show
Presidential nominee of the Green Party - Why vote Green?
'The problem with these 'progressive' Democrats is that they call defeats victories and mislead the people.'
Both north and south...
Tue, 2020-10-20 13:16
#793
The Politics of Cultural Despair
https://www.mintpressnews.com/chris-hedges-the-politics-of-cultural-desp...
"...Political coverage is modeled, as Taibbi points out, on sports coverage. This coverage masks the fact that on nearly all the major issues the two major political parties are in complete agreement. The goal is to set demographic against demographic. This stoking of antagonism is not news. It is entertainment, driven not by journalism but marketing strategies to increase viewership and corporate sponsors. News divisions are corporate revenue streams. The template for news, as Taibbi writes in his book Hate Inc, the cover of which has Sean Hannity on one side and Rachel Maddow on the other, is the simplified morality play used in professional wrestling. There are only two real political positions in the United States. You love Trump or you hate him, which from the playbook of professional wrestling.
This is so obviously correct. I disagree with Hedges that the conclusion is that there is no value in voting for Biden in a swing state in order to vote Trump out. But I don't consider it an important disagreement. It does surprise me how many clearly politcally sophisticated posters on here consider the sports match frame to be the most important perspective to take on all of this. Why be so obsessed with following and analyzing politics just to have the take 'Trump bad, Democrats better." I mean actually agree with it but so does my five year old nephew. We also agree the Vancouver Canucks are the best hockey team in the NHL. There are far more important factors deciding these elections than disagreements amongst allies on tactics. I think the greater problem of how to get out of this toxic political environment/culture is much more important than bickering about lesser-of-two-evils vs protest vote. It's also more daunting.
I do think the fact that the case against Trump has depended so much on CIA and national security leaks and right wingers that have (Frum, Bushes, Lincoln Group, Snyder, etc) 'moved' into the Democrats should be very worrying and that there will be a cost if Biden wins. I don't understand why anyone on a progressive board thinks that concerns about this should be shushed in place of unanimous cheerleading up until the big match.
Tue, 2020-10-20 13:34
#794
I agree with Josh that everything NDPP is posting in this thread boils down to "Elect Trump". We all know the many faults of Biden and the Democrats, but almost all of us think that Trump and the Republicans are much worse even than the Dems. NDPP and his motley coterie of sources simply say they don't care how bad Trump and the Republicans are, they hate the Dems enough that they are willing to cut off their political noses to spite their faces.
For example, the first item in post 792 by a clown named James Kunstler, makes an argument that is clearly false even to a casual viewer of U.S. politics. The Dem establishment did not want Biden to run. Obama even said before Biden's announcement "You don't have to do this, Joe."
They absolutely didn't want Sanders, and they would rather not see Warren win the nomination either, but almost any of the others would have been acceptable. They would have most preferred Kamala Harris or Cory Booker or Kirsten Gillibrand, but none of these candidates were able to catch fire during the pre-primary debates. When Sanders won the first 3 primaries, the only one left who might be able to defeat him was Biden, so the party apparatchiks reluctantly got behind him and defeated the left challenge to their power. Kunstler's version is comically wrong on every point.
Edited to add: NDPP loves to quote Chomsky saying that Russiagate is a joke, but he avoids like the plague Chomsky's more recents statements that a vote for Biden is a vote to give human civilization a chance for survival.
Tue, 2020-10-20 13:56
#795
Well said, meloveproles. Big ups for your user name too.
ETA - re: Michael's comments on 292, I agree that Kunster is comically wrong (and his tone/style annoying) but it also is a nonmainstream opinion about the election that seems suitable for a left wing board. One could, if one was inclined to be charitable, get something from it. Posting cnn and vicenews articles about Trump's sedition is adding nothing to the thread, and nothing that anyone following the election wouldn't see elsewhere. To me it's the same as posting Fox News articles without commentary or context.
Just posting Russian propoganda in response to something NDPP posts you don't like or agree with is a bore. When you or Josh bother to articulate your thoughts I am into it, and the thread becomes interesting but the prorussian/Putin puppet stuff is really tiresome. It's caused a lot of bad feelings and bannings in the past, maybe we could just not go there for a while. NDPP's postings are not going to tip the election to Trump.
With regards to the laptop / hacked emails story, whatever the source, the question should be if the emails are authentic, and if so do they prove some crime. I do think Facebook and twitter banning the story pre-emptively is a major event and worth interest from progressives.
Tue, 2020-10-20 14:19
#796
NDPP and his motley coterie of sources
Yeah, what were Greenwald, Hedges or Taibi ever right about? The world would be better off if that motley crew were just ignored like during the Iraq war or the Snowden leaks.
Now the Lincoln Project on the other hand, reminds me of a young Matt Cooke, might not be the most likeable player if you're skating against but the kind of player you win with.
Tue, 2020-10-20 14:27
#797
There is no point of even having a discussion if someone cannot see differences between Trump and Biden
Tue, 2020-10-20 19:45
#798
Sad to see an American president blocking aid to the American people during the pandemic, but par for the course
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/pelosi-mnuchin-move-closer-to-stimulus-deal-...
Wed, 2020-10-21 01:02
#799
The Biden fanboys regard any criticism of actual Dem history or propaganda as support for Donald Trump. Hedges is however correct both when he assesses the Biden democrats as a 'right wing party', and when he correctly remarks that Biden is directly complicit in far more neoliberalist outrages, imperialist wars, human death and destruction than Donald Trump thus far.
Not choosing to join this embarrassing little Canucklehead squad of Dem cheerleaders or daring to question their oversold and tiresome McCarthyite Russiagate paranoia, China-hate or all the other msm dreck and dogsvomit they dredge up and immediately commit to from CNN, NYT, WaPo USA Today or whatever, is something I cannot and will not do even if it means I am indelibly marked by some here as a 'Putin puppet' and 'Trump supporter'. How ridiculous. What a sad and stupid little clownshow. But no surprise - we've been here before...
Remember this: 'Former Obama Aides Advise NDP, Liberals on Campaign Strategy' or as one NDP henchman hailing from Hill & Knowlton put it: 'Learning from the Best!' Some here still actually believe such nonsense. And if, or after, Biden and Harris are safely esconced in the White House, these same sycophants will immediately fall into their customary deep political sleep while their ill-intentioned chosen candidate gets away with even more crooked corporate sell outs, mayhem and [mass] murder. Just like they did during the reign of President Hopey Changey, the kill list, drone-king Obomber. Make no mistake, like the GOP, the Duopoly Dems are warmongering enemies of the people - there will be blood shed and lots of it. Innocents mostly. A plague on both their houses. They should be put on trial. How shameful that some Canadians will always slavishly defend them and wish them well. I won't.
Wed, 2020-10-21 00:21
#800
Feds Confirm Biden Emails Authentic
"The FBI & DOJ concur with DNI Ratcliffe's assessment that Hunter Biden's laptop and the emails in question were not part of a Russian disinformation campaign. FBI does have possession of the Hunter Biden laptop in question." - CBS -
https://twitter.com/MajorCBS/status/1318697910922481666
The Damage Russiagate Has Done
https://consortiumnews.com/2020/10/19/patrick-lawrence-the-damage-russia...
"Nobody disputes the facts as published last week in the New York Post, not even Biden pere et fils, but the facts are once again mutilated with assertions that it is another case of Rrrrrussians spreading disinformation. This is what we get after 4 years of the Russia collusion bs, otherwise known as Russiagate. Anything goes if implicating Russia solves a political problem for the Democrats and keeps the war machine going for the Pentagon and the national security state. It defers the moment - at some point it will come - when the press is exposed for its radically stupid overinvestment in the Russiagate nonsense.
What we have witnessed these past 4 years is an attempted palace coup against a sitting president. Cold comfort it is that the gang that couldn't shoot straight bungled the job. It has also created a Democratic default position: When wrongdoing by Democrats is credibly exposed, automatically blame Russia. Among much else, that has led to unnecessary tensions with a nuclear power. This damage will long stay with us..."
"The Hunter Biden story is even more degrading for media than Russiagate was. When you peddled a moronic conspiracy theory you looked silly. When you cheer banning of facts and parrot claims that they're 'Russian disinformation', you're engaging in vile censorship and disinformation."
Wed, 2020-10-21 01:57
#801
On Russophrenia & Schiff for brains...
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1318349147284570115
"Adam Schiff has been stating definitively that Russia is behind the NY Post story, even though he has no idea whether that's true. That's because Adam Schiff is an absolute pathological liar, abusing his position as Intelligence Committee Chair to scream RUSSIA and lie continually.
I don't use mental illness as a metaphor. I mean it literally: The way so much of liberal [North] America has been trained to believe RUSSIA is behind everything unpleasant in life and to dismiss everything the minute liars like CIA and Schiff scream the word is a collective pathology.
Whatever your ideology: just stop and ponder what a powerful weapon it is to train a population to believe some mid-rate foreign power is behind all of the nation's woes - so they never focus on real domestic power - and to instantly disregard all information by screaming RUSSIA."
Russophrenia - or how a collapsing country runs the world
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/10/20/russophrenia-or-how-a-...
"I am indebted to Bryan Macdonald for this brilliant neologism: Russophrenia - a condition where the sufferer believes Russia is both about to collapse, and take over the world..."