Social Media is a failed experiment

Thu, 2020-11-12 13:50

Pondering

So people in the wilderness shouldn't be allowed to have guns to protect themselves?

The problem isn't social media. It is the dumbing down of Amcericans in particular and the Republican Party that used and promoted the anti-abortion crowd and all conspiracy theories that benefit them. They created the opening for Trump to exploit and during his presidency, and even now, they continue to support his delusions. I believe Trump is a true narcissist who is not fully in control of his own behavior. There is no excuse for Mitch McConnell and other republicans, or Fox News, or Newsmax. Who even now are still supporting him.

Of course right wingers want to deflect the blame. Back in the day they didn't want people learning to read or the Bible translated because it reduced their power. This is no different.

Thu, 2020-11-12 13:53

#3

Pondering

Yet, even in the face of this aberrant behaviour, we fall into the same normalizing trap, the same failure of the imagination that, time and again, has proved so conducive to Mr. Trump’s designs. And so we make excuses for him, in spite of ourselves: He can’t mean it. He’s not really trying to overturn the election. He’s just in denial. Or else it’s some kind of dodge.

No "we" don't make excuses for him. That is entirely on the heads of the right wing media and press.

Thu, 2020-11-12 15:21

#4

Left Turn

I support free speech!!!

Read up on the history of free speech fights if you think free speech is expendable!!!

Thu, 2020-11-12 15:53

#5

Michael Moriarity

I can't be bothered to read the whole article, but I'd appreciate knowing whether the author presents a concrete plan for the abolition of this "failed experiment", because it sure hasn't failed as far as the capitalist markets are concerned. Any moves to even bureaucratically regulate large social networks in the way broadcasters were once regulated, would be rejected by all Republicans and most Democratic office holders as communistic and unAmerican. Plus a job killer, to boot. Nope, oped writers can whine forever, nothing bad is going to happen to fb, twitter, et al as long as capital rules.

Thu, 2020-11-12 16:06

#6

Mobo2000

"... nothing bad is going to happen to fb, twitter, et al as long as capital rules."

I think it's more like nothing good will happen to them as long as capital rules. Open, transparent, publicly owned nonprofit social media would be great. Maybe even necessary if our hoped for participatory democracy is ever to come to being?

Thu, 2020-11-12 16:31

#7

Mobo2000

Should have added -- the bad thing that can happen to social media under capitalism is currently happening, which is an opaque censorship of dissident opinion by elite politically connected technocrats, and this being cheered on by liberal authoritarians at the globe and mail and here at babble:

"Unfortunately humans are just too stupid to be given access to some things. Guns, Social Media"

Thu, 2020-11-12 16:55

#8

Michael Moriarity

When I said "nothing bad" I should have specified that by this I meant nothing that would disturb their shareholders and management significantly. I totally agree that public utility style social networks would be a huge improvement, but they will never be implemented as long as capital rules.

Thu, 2020-11-12 19:20

#9

NorthReport

All the more reason to shut social media down

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/13/president-trump-has-m...

Thu, 2020-11-12 19:50

#10

NDPP

If You Are Not Paying For The Product, You Are The Product

https://medium.com/change-your-mind/if-y0u-are-not-paying-for-the-produc...

"What you can learn from the Netflix documentary 'The Secret Dilemma.'

'How do you wake up from the matrix when you are in the matrix?'

Thu, 2020-11-12 19:46

(Reply to #10) #11

JKR

Michael Moriarity wrote:

I totally agree that public utility style social networks would be a huge improvement,...

I do too. Maybe members of the NDP could propose this kind of policy at their next federal convention?

Thu, 2020-11-12 21:59

#12

Ken Burch

It appears that I'm going to be the first person who notes the absurdity of posting a thread calling for the abolition of social media on a social media platform.

Thu, 2020-11-12 22:04

#13

NDPP

Actually it asseses it as a 'failed experiment'. As for whether this one is, I guess that's an open question.

Thu, 2020-11-12 23:47

#14

NorthReport

Perfect example of why social media is such crap and why it should be shut down

https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkdpey/mail-voting-fraud-whistleblower-a...

Thu, 2020-11-12 23:57

#15

NorthReport

Trump is a Loser

The Stupidity that Empowered Him Lives On

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2020/11/12/Trump-Is-Gone-Stupidity-Lives-On/

Fri, 2020-11-13 00:32

(Reply to #15) #16

Pondering

Ken Burch wrote:

It appears that I'm going to be the first person who notes the absurdity of posting a thread calling for the abolition of social media on a social media platform.

Good catch. Neither the Arab Spring nor Occupy would have happened were it not for social media. We choose how to use it. We choose the laws that apply to it. Millions of people use it to stay in contact with far-flung friends and family.

The problem with the US is the deliberate dumbing down of Americans by Repubicans and their skill in manipulating them.

We have problems in Canada too but we don't have a large enough contingent of religious fundamentalists nor Constitutional originalists to end up with a Trump. The grand majority of Canadians do not consider our judges to be activist for applying our constitution.

Conservatives in Canada are in trouble but that is for another thread.

Fri, 2020-11-13 20:50

(Reply to #16) #17

Ken Burch

NDPP wrote:

Actually it asseses it as a 'failed experiment'. As for whether this one is, I guess that's an open question.

I stand corrected about the article simply being a statement that social media is a failed experiment. The question remains...what then do we do? It's impossible to organize political movements anymore without social media-we simply don't have the capacity to communicate one-to-one, in-person, with enough people in a fast enough time to organize anything.

If we simply declare social media a failure, what the hell else do we have?

Sat, 2020-11-14 07:22

(Reply to #17) #18

Left Turn

[post deleted]

Sat, 2020-11-14 08:15

#19

mmphosis

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Read the Terms and Condition of social media sites: walled gardens. The content I post does not belong to me. The content I post can be censored (removed, shut down, whatever you want to call it.) The content I post can be modified. The content on social media is mined, and then other content is pushed at specific people and audiences based on data gathering by the social media site and other data warehouses - and, to take it further: specific content is delivered based on how much a client is willing to pay to target specific audiences. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica as an example.

On the other hand, who is bothering to pay for old media? Quality journalism? According to who? And for what purpose? The lies are the same.

There are still a few corners of the internet to post comments. Babble might be a failure, but I can still post comments here!

There are other platforms but they are not encouraged to the exteme that joining popular social media sites is encouraged.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Scuttlebutt

https://www.torproject.org/

https://joinmastodon.org/

Mon, 2020-11-16 21:51

(Reply to #19) #20

Douglas Fir Premier

Ken Burch wrote:

I stand corrected about the article simply being a statement that social media is a failed experiment. The question remains...what then do we do? It's impossible to organize political movements anymore without social media-we simply don't have the capacity to communicate one-to-one, in-person, with enough people in a fast enough time to organize anything.

If we simply declare social media a failure, what the hell else do we have?

I saw an insightful Twitter thread on this today. It was in response to a nurse from South Dakota recounting that many of her patients are so brainwashed that they refuse to believe that COVID is real, even as they're drawing their last breaths.

https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/1328422178648371203

Being Twitter famous has given me the opportunity to have private conservations with some of the smartest people in the world about this problem, and not one of them has a single coherent idea of what to do.

Most seem to agree the current public vulnerability to misinformation stems from a series of material and psychological deprivations combined with the sudden democratization of information. Too many want to hinder the latter rather than solving the former.

There will be no top-down solution to this problem. You will not legislate your way out. You will not litigate your way out. You will not censor you way out. And any attempt to arbitrate the truth will fail unless you remove those material and psychological deprivations.

So what do you do in a world that appears 100% committed to continuing those deprivations into the foreseeable future? I have no idea. And they don't either.

Tue, 2020-11-17 00:47

#21

Pondering

That isn't the fault of twitter. It's a cop out to blame social media. I'm not into history but I'm pretty sure it isn't the first time a populist has risen to power on lies and disinformation. People were not better informed when the only news they got came through newspapers and TV.

If the far right is more persuasive than the far left it isn't because of social media. It is the fault of the left for failing to listen to the concerns of the demographic that gets won over by the right.

Tue, 2020-11-17 02:02

#22

JKR

There are even people in the hospital with Covid who believe they can't have it because Covid is not real, that it is a hoax. They probably also think that Trump won the election, that Biden stole it. We truly are living in a post-truth era!

Tue, 2020-11-17 02:17

#23

NorthReport

Yes, and they are all on social media and they get all their information from social media and if it is based on science it is from the devil and wrong.

Tue, 2020-11-17 03:17

(Reply to #23) #24

Douglas Fir Premier

Pondering wrote:

That isn't the fault of twitter. It's a cop out to blame social media.

I only mentioned that the quote is from Twitter. I'm not blaming social media, and clearly, neither is the author of the tweets I posted.

Tue, 2020-11-17 14:16

(Reply to #24) #25

Pondering

Douglas Fir Premier wrote:

Pondering wrote:

That isn't the fault of twitter. It's a cop out to blame social media.

I only mentioned that the quote is from Twitter. I'm not blaming social media, and clearly, neither is the author of the tweets I posted.

Did you read the title of this thread?

Tue, 2020-11-17 14:29

#26

NorthReport

https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/mark-zuckerberg-jack-dorsey-senat...

Tue, 2020-11-17 14:53

#27

NorthReport

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-were-primed-to-believe-th...

Tue, 2020-11-17 15:06

(Reply to #27) #28

Douglas Fir Premier

Pondering wrote:

Douglas Fir Premier wrote:

Pondering wrote:

That isn't the fault of twitter. It's a cop out to blame social media.

I only mentioned that the quote is from Twitter. I'm not blaming social media, and clearly, neither is the author of the tweets I posted.

Did you read the title of this thread?

Nope. I just close my eyes and click on threads at random.

Are you trying to imply that your comment wasn't a response to the post that immediately preceded it?

Tue, 2020-11-17 15:26

#29

Mobo2000

I found the twitter post interesting, a concise explanation that has a lot of truth to it IMO. Especially this:

"Most seem to agree the current public vulnerability to misinformation stems from a series of material and psychological deprivations combined with the sudden democratization of information. Too many want to hinder the latter rather than solving the former."

I am curious how the author would describe the material and psychological deprivations. Material deprivations are pretty easy to agree on, but not clear what the psycholoigcal deprivations referenced are, beyond the obvious (community, autonomy). Or what causes them.

ETA -- I suppose once could assume the psychological deprivations are a result of capitalism, or empire, or both, but that line of analysis has always felt a little pithy to me.

Tue, 2020-11-17 18:55

(Reply to #29) #30

Pondering

Douglas Fir Premier wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Douglas Fir Premier wrote:

Pondering wrote:

That isn't the fault of twitter. It's a cop out to blame social media.

I only mentioned that the quote is from Twitter. I'm not blaming social media, and clearly, neither is the author of the tweets I posted.

Did you read the title of this thread?

Nope. I just close my eyes and click on threads at random.

Are you trying to imply that your comment wasn't a response to the post that immediately preceded it?

It is in response to the thrust of the thread including this comment which preceded my post:

Most seem to agree the current public vulnerability to misinformation stems from a series of material and psychological deprivations combined with the sudden democratization of information. Too many want to hinder the latter rather than solving the former.

It has nothing to do with the democratization of information. It didn't take social media for Hitler to rise. It has to do with the skill of the right and the failure of the left which is stuck in a rut of righteousness that ignores voters concerns.

Wed, 2020-11-18 01:45

(Reply to #30) #31

JKR

Pondering wrote:

It has nothing to do with the democratization of information. It didn't take social media for Hitler to rise.

It took the negative consequences caused by World War I, the Versailles Treaty, and the Great Depression to elevate Hitler to power. All it took for Trump to rise to power was Trump's preposterous Twitter campaign that claimed that the presidency of the US's first African American President was illegal because President Obama was in reality a secret Muslim born in Kenya.

Wed, 2020-11-18 02:56

#32

NDPP

All it took for Trump to rise to power for many was the thought of Hillary Clinton after Barack Obama based on actual lived experience. Unfortunately, the American duopoly system guarantees that 'the house' always wins and the people always lose. When enough begin to realize the scam things will begin to go off - in all directions. I believe we are now entering just such a process and something is taking its course. We should pay close attention by all means at our disposal and with a multiplicity of perspectives beyond 'all the news that's fit to print', to understand this dangerous and critical time. For them and us.

'When elephants [or donkeys] battle it is the grass that suffers.'

Wed, 2020-11-18 04:17

#33

JKR

Whatever came of the FBI's investigation of Hillary Clinton's emails that the FBI announced shortly before Election Day and cost her the 2016 election and gave the world four "deplorable" years of Donald J. Trump as the worst president in American history?

The ability of the US Republican Party to control US politics through propaganda has created a dangerous world for Americans and the rest of us. I think the US and world would be infinitely better off if the US Democratic Party were free to reorder the US unhindered by the US Republican Party. The US political system structurally favours the Republicans to the grave detriment of the whole world. American evangelicals may end up destroying us all via there denial of basic science and reality. As it turns out, science and reality are no match for modern day propaganda.

Wed, 2020-11-18 08:46

#34

NorthReport

Social media is too sick and just not worth it

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/facebook-shredding-fabric-of-democracy-biden...

Wed, 2020-11-18 13:12

#35

NorthReport

Tragic!

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiVmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNiYy5jYS9uZXdzL2N...

Wed, 2020-11-18 14:26

#36

Mobo2000

Well said, 100% agree:

NDPP: When enough begin to realize the scam things will begin to go off - in all directions. I believe we are now entering just such a process and something is taking its course. We should pay close attention by all means at our disposal and with a multiplicity of perspectives beyond 'all the news that's fit to print', to understand this dangerous and critical time. For them and us.

Wed, 2020-11-18 21:05

(Reply to #36) #37

Pondering

NorthReport wrote:
Social media is too sick and just not worth it https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/facebook-shredding-fabric-of-democracy-biden...

Social media hasn't hurt democracy at all. Neither have books. Republicans and Democrats are directly responsible for destroying democracy.

Wed, 2020-11-18 21:25

#38

Pondering

I will add the Conservatives, Liberals and NDP are doing it in Canada.

Wed, 2020-11-18 21:47

(Reply to #38) #39

kropotkin1951

Pondering wrote:

I will add the Conservatives, Liberals and NDP are doing it in Canada.

Please name me the era and the politicians in your lifetime that were not doing it in Canada.

Wed, 2020-11-18 23:06

(Reply to #39) #40

JKR

Pondering wrote:

Social media hasn't hurt democracy at all. Neither have books. Republicans and Democrats are directly responsible for destroying democracy.

What do you think should be done to save democracy in places like the U.S. and Canada?

Thu, 2020-11-19 12:44

(Reply to #40) #41

Pondering

JKR wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Social media hasn't hurt democracy at all. Neither have books. Republicans and Democrats are directly responsible for destroying democracy.

What do you think should be done to save democracy in places like the U.S. and Canada?

I should have said, trying to destroy democracy. Democracy is not threatened in either place. Citizens have all the power we need to make radical change. We are collectively choosing not to.

Thu, 2020-11-19 12:46

(Reply to #41) #42

Pondering

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Pondering wrote:

I will add the Conservatives, Liberals and NDP are doing it in Canada.

Please name me the era and the politicians in your lifetime that were not doing it in Canada.

There are none. In my opinion social media is democratizing. It takes power away from mass media and puts it in the hands of the people.

Fri, 2020-11-20 20:27

(Reply to #42) #43

kropotkin1951

Pondering wrote:

I should have said, trying to destroy democracy. Democracy is not threatened in either place. Citizens have all the power we need to make radical change. We are collectively choosing not to.

Tell me have you heard of Citizens United. There is no democracy with unlimited campaign spending by the plutocracy.

https://www.citizen.org/article/the-supreme-court-ruling/

Sat, 2020-11-21 14:07

#44

Pondering

People don't watch much live TV. Social media is free.

The problem is the general public responds better to right wing messaging which has been refined over decades by think tanks focused on what will sway the public rather than explaining neoliberalism and how it is better.

Sat, 2020-11-21 15:51

#45

contrarianna

NorthReport wrote:
humans are just too stupid to be given access to some things....let's shut them down, the sooner the better.

Oblivious, fascist-friendly North Report is consistent only in the relentless advocacy of censorship and prosecution anything s/he doesn't like at the moment, regardless of factuality:

NorthReport wrote:
Fuck free speech It's about time!

Hopefully they include Wikileaks in their prosecutions

https://rabble.ca/babble/media/fuck-free-speech-its-about-time

Tue, 2020-11-24 20:16

#46

NDPP

The phenomenon is nothing new here. As for other social media and its recent tendencies.

Posted this on the Biden thread but it probably belongs here too.

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/K_mxYwr6qt8

"...This is what they're going to do in power. They're going to pressure these social media companies to censor even more. And if people on the left think this is going to be aimed only at the right, you're fucking stupid."

Sun, 2020-11-29 09:28

#47

NorthReport

"Calgary nurse’s post defending front-line workers to ‘internet trolls’ goes viral | Globalnews.ca" https://globalnews.ca/news/7489766/calgary-nurses-post-front-line-worker...