Social distancing, class, and hypocrisy

JKR wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

JKR wrote:

Pondering wrote:

I trust nurses (collectively) more than I do any other profession. I do not believe that either they or doctors are lying about conditions in hospitals. 

I agree. When it comes to pandemics primarily I trust immunologists, nurses, doctors, scientists, and other medical and health care professionals. Nurses and doctors are making very significant sacrifices, sometimes even with their lives.

The idea that all front-line medical staff are engaged in an emotional blackmail campaign trying to control everyone else's behaviour is a myth brought on by media slant and social media mob mentality. This doctor and his wife (also a doctor) disagree with the measures we are taking.

The idea that front-line medical staff are engaged in an emotional blackmail campaign trying to control everyone else's behaviour is a myth made up by people opposed to what we're doing to deal with Covid-19.

When a medical professional takes to social media to say, "you need to stay home because covid is a bad thing and if you don't you're a selfish person," that is emotional blackmail. It's essentially pathologizing others, trying to play on their emotions to elicit a behavioural change. Emotional blackmail comes in many forms, but it is not well understood. That's why it works.

Pondering wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

The idea that all front-line medical staff are engaged in an emotional blackmail campaign trying to control everyone else's behaviour is a myth brought on by media slant and social media mob mentality. This doctor and his wife (also a doctor) disagree with the measures we are taking.

Doctors who aren't actually treating patients and certainly not those on USA medicare.  I am talking about medical professionals where I live not professionals in general. I am referring to nurse burnout where I live. It is no longer nescessary to rely on theory to predict what will happen in Canada. We know from personal experience that Y number of cases this week means X number of hospitalizations in 3 weeks. We know the bed capacity and staff capacity. If they are close to hitting peak we have to slow Covid down locally.  All the provinces and hospitals have the local numbers to go by. It is extremely predictable. No need to project out for months. 

You didn't watch the video. The doctor in question clearly stated that he had treated patients, and also related an experience of his wife who also treated patients.

JKR wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

And if we don't remove Saddam, the final proof will come in the form of a mushroom cloud.

Equating Covid-19 with nuclear weapons in Iraq makes no sense since Covid-19 is real. Do you believe Covid-19 is a hoax?

Covid is quite clearly a concern for health that we need to address, but I believe it has been distorted and blown out of proportion, and I believe social media is in large part to blame. Notice on your social media feeds that it is always recommending stories and videos depending on what you have previously looked at? That is because the algorithms are watching your behaviour trying to get you to view more content, because the more content you view the more money they make. Great for things like if you have a health problem, are into a particular sport, or if you have a hobby like gardening. Not so great for political discussions or calm, rational analysis of what's going on in the world. When news broke about the virus out of China, right away that would start trending on social media. People would keep clicking the stories, it would feed the algorithms, and the cycle would continue. Yes, the virus was "over there," but people were primed to be deathly afraid of the virus by the time the pandemic was declared in March. So yes, I get it that covid is happening. Things are closed or severly restricted, we know we're supposed to "stay at home," we don't more press conferences from self-indulgent politicians and medical bureaucrats. There are other things happening in the world that aren't covid related, and they are important as well. Let me give you one example. A rare disease associated with the cramped conditions of the First World War was detected in Winnipeg last winter among the homeless population. Note that it was detected one month before covid was detected in Manitoba, and we are just finding out about this now. Do you think the media is going to pay any more attention to this disease, aside from this one (and maybe a couple of other articles published around the same time)?

Pondering wrote:

JKR wrote:

 The idea that front-line medical staff are engaged in an emotional blackmail campaign trying to control everyone else's behaviour is a myth made up by people opposed to what we're doing to deal with Covid-19.

Yes and a pretty nasty one at that. 

For the record, I don't think that's true of all front line medical staff. I think it's a small minority of front-line staff who are doing the "stay-at-home-or-else-you're-selfish" thing on social media and that these are the ones who are getting all the attention.

I agree that the situation of front-line medical staff is one thing that needs to be taken into account as we move forward. One good reason to keep schools open is that I don't think it's fair to ask front-line medical staff to become homeschool teachers after stressful 12-hour days at work.

More evidence that shutdowns contain the spread:

Quote:

Amazon distribution facilities around Canada’s biggest airport have seen more than 400 COVID-19 cases, a source said Thursday, as concern mounts about the virus’s spread in industrial workplaces that face few government restrictions.

Many municipalities in Ontario are now under sweeping lockdowns to try to curb the pandemic’s second wave, banning most in-person shopping and restaurant dining. Similar rules have been imposed in many other provinces, too.

But they tend not to affect factories, food-processing facilities and distribution centres feeding the surge in online retailing, generally considered essential industries.

And yet, with the daily number of cases remaining high cross Canada, the limited amount of data released publicly suggests those workplaces are a significant source of COVID-19 spread.

The two Amazon “fulfillment centres” in Brampton, Ont., one in nearby Caledon and one in Mississauga — all close to busy Toronto Pearson International Airport — have had a combined total of about 400 cases, said a source familiar with the data.

...

Shifting Canadians’ shopping behaviour increasingly online may not be the safe option it appears to be, argues Dan Kelly of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, whose members include many restaurants and stores forced to close.

“One of the things I worry about is: Are we closing off the wrong end of retail?” said Kelly.

Pondering wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

But the driver still had to risk their life to get the package to  you from driving on the street. Therefore, you exposed the driver to a risk of death. It proves my point that you don't get to moralize about how superior you are by protecting other people.

Food must get to people somehow. It is less dangerous to deliver it than to have crowds of people in grocery stores. It's pure math.

It's still dangerous for the driver. I can't think of any deaths that have been linked to any grocery stores in Manitoba. The provice keeps good information about that, and I check it every day. Maybe look again and check in case I missed something.

Pondering wrote:

My preference is for a full shutdown other than food and other absolutely essential to life services for 4 to 6 weeks.

IOW, because I'm scared, and my income will not be disrupted due to the shutdowns, whatever suffering other people have to endure to make me feel better is acceptable.

JKR wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

JKR wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

JKR wrote:

Do you really think that doctors' advice about Covid is not based on their understanding of medicine and science? I think doctors' advice about Covid is based on their understanding of medicine and science.

Is your reading comprehension that lacking that you couldn't see that I was pointing out that a high-profile doctor was not following the same restrictions that she expected regular people to follow?

Just because she might have been hypocritical does not mean that the restrictions she supported were not based on science and medicine. In your previous post you said that they were based not based on science and medicine. 

Obviously she didn't feel that those restrictions were necessary to keep people safe, otherwise she would have obeyed them. Either that or she thinks that rules that apply to regular people shouldn't apply to her. Either way, that's not the kind of person I want making rules for the rest of us.

She said her family members had quarantined themselves.

Right, so she has no incentive to lie about something like this?

Are medical schools doing enough to admit low-income students?

Quote:

When I started medical school in 2012, I realized I was an anomaly—it is rare for students from low socio-economic backgrounds to study medicine. While limited data has been collected on Canadian medical students’ socio-economic status (SES), a few surveys have shown that students from lower income households are significantly underrepresented. For example, a 2012 survey of four Canadian medical schools found that 57.6 percent of students came from families with a household income over $100,000 annually, a proportion eight times greater than in the general population. More recently, a 2015 national survey of first-year medical students by the Association of Faculties of Medicine of Canada (AFMC) found that 62.6 percent of respondents come from families with an annual income greater than $100,000.

The overrepresentation of students from affluent families is also found among medical school applicants. In 2018, the AFMC collected applicant data from five Canadian medical schools. Of those who provided their parental income, 54 percent reported a familial income greater than $100,000 annually.

Research has shown that diversity and equity are important in medical school admission not only for the reasons of fairness, but also for the benefit of patients, and that physicians from lower SES backgrounds are more likely to pursue primary care specialties and work with under-served populations. Further, some research has shown that patients are best cared for by physicians from a background similar to their own. “When you consider the morbidity of our population clusters in low SES groups,” says Brian Postl, chair of the AFMC board of directors and dean of medicine at the University of Manitoba, “having people with the understanding of where they come from and what stresses they feel can only help.”

What’s more, it has been suggested that a diverse medical class benefits learners and creates an environment wherein stereotypes and cultural assumptions of under-served populations can be challenged. “I think diversity brings richness to our environment, and our students really thrive in it,” says Postl.

...

Getting into medical school in Canada is extremely competitive. In 2016–17, Canadian faculties accepted between three and 13.4 percent of applicants. Applicants are expected to excel academically, achieving a GPA of at least 3.9. Many volunteer in international humanitarian missions and on innovative research projects, and spend thousands of dollars on MCAT preparation, exams and application fees, and travel for interviews. Social connections, mentorship in medicine, and financial resources are extremely helpful if not essential in this process. For an applicant growing up in poverty, these kinds of resources are seldom, if ever, available. “For many students of low SES, trying to pursue a career in medicine is like performing a play without a script, and without adequate opportunities for direction and rehearsal,” wrote Jessica Bok in 2010.

Some research has pointed to the possibility that medical schools are preoccupied with a pursuit of prestige and admitting for “excellence”. For example, emphasis on the importance of applicants’ high academic achievement on medical schools’ websites suggests that other criteria take less priority. “A picture emerges whereby the ideal applicant is the one who, by virtue of his or her possession of the requisite social, cultural, and economic capital, is going to be best placed to contribute to the perpetuation of a particular university’s excellence,” wrote Saleem Razack and colleagues in their 2012 review of Canadian medical schools websites.

When asked whether deans of medicine are concerned about lowering their standards by recruiting for diversity, Postl says they needn’t be. “The panel of candidates is so large that you don’t compromise the horsepower by trying to improve diversity.”

...

In the end, the question that medical schools need to ask themselves is, “Have we created empathetic, caring and committed physicians who understand their social accountabilities?” says Postl. “That doesn’t come from the current selection process that favours the ‘best and the brightest,’ frankly.”

Might that be something else to condsider when hearing from doctors (and other medical professionals) who support lockdowns? How many of these doctors and professionals who support lockdowns come from family backgrounds that would have been harmed by the restrictions?

JKR wrote:

I think nurses, doctors, and health care workers work in the interests of their patients and clients. I think especially during this Covid period, they deserve our support.

I guess these nurses were also acting in the interests of the woman who later died?

You're blind to the implications of class, and especially how professionals who come from the middle class are often blind to the realities of those on the lower end of the economic ladder. To give an example, one of the guys I used to work with told me a story about someone he worked with who was studying to be a nurse. This woman told him that people on social assistance have babies as a way to get money from the government. Do you really think these attitidues are not present among health care workers?

Furthermore, one of the ways we are told that the pandemic will end is with contact tracing. Winnipeg has a large urban indigenous population. Many are suspicious of government agencies, including the police and child protection authorities. Do you really think they are going to trust the medical profession or co-operate with them for contact tracing purposes? Especially in a context where covid is stigmatized, people may have already had bad experiences with government agencies that are supposedly there to protect them, and if they are worried that they or someone close to them might get in trouble?

Obviously we should do what we can to support front line health care workers. But they are human just like the rest of us, and we need to take into account many voices. They need to have empathy for all their patients, but unfortunately many people with middle-class backgrounds have little empathy for people on the lower economic rung of society, and no amount of training can fix that.

Lockdown critic and Brampton-area doctor Kulvinder Kaur weighs in:

Quote:

Today, it was whitesplained and mansplained to me by a privileged self-identified “pro-diversity” “anti-racist” that only “nationalist” “racists” oppose lockdowns and that people of colour opposing catastrophic lockdowns have “internalized white supremacy”.