Democracy does not work when only one side accepts the election results. It wasn't a landslide but it also wasn't even close as Biden won by 7 million votes. Look how nice it has been since Trump has been quieted by twitter.
Democracy does not work when one side refuses to accept an election result without any evidentiary support for doing so. The sociopathic and psychotic charges of Donald Trump, Lin Wood and Sidney Powell do not constitute such evidence.
Is that the new term for everyone opposing election-rigging by Democrats?
So all that talk about putting forward alternate sources (right wing lies) so that we babblers would better understand the thoughts (if any) and feelings of the aggrieved Trump supporters was just bullshit. You actually believe the nonsense you've been posting. Sad.
Chris Christie tells @GStephanopoulos Trump’s incitement of Capitol siege is an impeachable offense: “If inciting to insurrection isn’t, then I don’t really know what is.”
https://twitter.com/macnyc/status/1348291209115136000?s=20
As do attempted tampering with election count, and claims that the election was fraudulent without any factual support.
Is that the new term for everyone opposing election-rigging by Democrats?
So all that talk about putting forward alternate sources (right wing lies) so that we babblers would better understand the thoughts (if any) and feelings of the aggrieved Trump supporters was just bullshit. You actually believe the nonsense you've been posting. Sad.
Of course it was a lie. And a laughable one from the get go.
No one said anything about not appealing to moderates, but Trump and his fascist entourage need to be stopped in their tracks, and made to pay a very heavy price for their criminal behaviour
And how are you going to stop 70 million Americans, many of them heavily armed, in their tracks? The same police that let them walk into the Capitol Building? The police that posed with the protestors for selfies?
I think people are so focused on Trump that they don't see the bigger picture.
Asking because I don't know, is there not something in place where he can get investigated and possibly face criminal charges down the road after things have calmed down? Or does he have some kind of former presidental protection?
Paladin1, should Trump ever be held accountable? Many of Trump's rioters are going to go to jail for listening to Trump, so should Trump get off scott free while members of his mob go to jail because they listened to Trump? Do you think it was wrong that Bill Clinton was impeached for an infinitely less grievous transgression?
I think he should yes. Do I personally want him to be held accountable? Hell yes. There's a ton of politicans that should be held accountable. System is set up for them to avoid justice, it's bullshit.
Is impeaching trump worth it if it means people start storming Capitol Hill with guns and ammo and actually using them? Or they start targeting law enforcement and infrastructure? Thousands attended the protest, one person was shot and it was by the security force. That day could have truely turned into the bloodbath people keep prophesizing about. Almost twice the total population of Canada voted for Trump.
Clinton should have been removed from office for unethical behavior, not just impeached. Trump should never have been in a position to be a candidate in the first place.
So sick
Why any normal person would want to go into politics in the US is beyond me. But I suppose that is the purpose with a lot of the violence, eh!
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/09/politics/parler-lin-wood-mike-pence/index...
This isn't rocket science
The election is over
Trump lost
Trump caused a riot at the Capital and several people were killed in the process
Trump has to to go now
If he doesn't resign he needs to be removed and criminally charged
There may not be time before Biden's inauguration but it needs to be done
No one said anything about not appealing to moderates, but Trump and his fascist entourage need to be stopped in their tracks, and made to pay a very heavy price for their criminal behaviourAnd how are you going to stop 70 million Americans, many of them heavily armed, in their tracks? The same police that let them walk into the Capitol Building? The police that posed with the protestors for selfies?
I think people are so focused on Trump that they don't see the bigger picture.
Asking because I don't know, is there not something in place where he can get investigated and possibly face criminal charges down the road after things have calmed down? Or does he have some kind of former presidental protection?
Paladin1, should Trump ever be held accountable? Many of Trump's rioters are going to go to jail for listening to Trump, so should Trump get off scott free while members of his mob go to jail because they listened to Trump? Do you think it was wrong that Bill Clinton was impeached for an infinitely less grievous transgression?
I think he should yes. Do I personally want him to be held accountable? Hell yes. There's a ton of politicans that should be held accountable. System is set up for them to avoid justice, it's bullshit.
Is impeaching trump worth it if it means people start storming Capitol Hill with guns and ammo and actually using them? Or they start targeting law enforcement and infrastructure? Thousands attended the protest, one person was shot and it was by the security force. That day could have truely turned into the bloodbath people keep prophesizing about. Almost twice the total population of Canada voted for Trump.
Clinton should have been removed from office for unethical behavior, not just impeached. Trump should never have been in a position to be a candidate in the first place.
Is that the new term for everyone opposing election-rigging by Democrats?
So all that talk about putting forward alternate sources (right wing lies) so that we babblers would better understand the thoughts (if any) and feelings of the aggrieved Trump supporters was just bullshit. You actually believe the nonsense you've been posting. Sad.
[quote=NDPP]
So cry me a river. No lie that I am interested in US political factions. All of them. And yes, I do believe there is significant evidence of election fraud. Which explains the obvious hysterical panic of the American establishment to suppress, silence and demonize any and all suggestions that the claims are anything but 'baseless'. So now I go from a 'Putinist' for questioning Russiagate to a 'Trumpist' for questioning Democrat claims of election integrity. So be it. We shall see. Time will tell.
Trump's enablers will pay a big political price
https://globalnews.ca/video/7565495/trump-enablers-will-pay-severe-polit...
Trump's influence will drop dramatically after Biden's inauguration
https://globalnews.ca/news/7564276/trump-influence-biden-inauguration-bo...
Is that the new term for everyone opposing election-rigging by Democrats?
So all that talk about putting forward alternate sources (right wing lies) so that we babblers would better understand the thoughts (if any) and feelings of the aggrieved Trump supporters was just bullshit. You actually believe the nonsense you've been posting. Sad.
So cry me a river. No lie that I am interested in US political factions. All of them. And yes, I do believe there is significant evidence of election fraud. Which explains the obvious hysterical panic of the American establishment to suppress, silence and demonize any and all suggestions that the claims are anything but 'baseless'. So now I go from a 'Putinist' for questioning Russiagate to a 'Trumpist' for questioning Democrat claims of election integrity. So be it. We shall see. Time will tell.
There is no evidence. Tin foil hat conspiracies and right-wing delusions don't count.
This strategy is brilliant and will get it out of the way before Biden's inauguration. Over to you Mitch.
Clyburn says Trump impeachment vote 'will happen this week' as 195 lawmakers cosponsor articles
Mulvaney says GOP will view this one 'very differently'
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/clyburn-trump-impeachment-vote-this-week
Competely off topic, but when I read NDPP's last comment, I had an irresistible impulse to hear Ella Fitzgerald sing this one more time.
Excellent and what a great voice she has!
They save their concerns about serious ones. Like lying about sex.
And wearing a tan suit.
If you can confirm a Supreme Court Justice in 8 days, then you can impeach a President in 10.
https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1348370629477724166?s=20
There must be consequences. This mob was whipped up by Donald Trump and his allies, in their months-long campaign of lies. For the sake of political hygiene, for the sake of national honor -- and to deter would-be authoritarians in the future -- impeach, convict, and remove.
https://twitter.com/jaynordlinger/status/1348350870270996481?s=20
Editor National Review.
Blame for the violent assault on our democracy lies w/ those who spread phony conspiracies & failed to refute Trump's lies or hold him accountable.
https://twitter.com/SenJackReed/status/1348401395590967296?s=20
WATCH: "...The worst thing we can do is prolong this. The page is going to be turned on January 20th. This is a complete waste of taxpayers' money. Did President Trump say we need to continue to protest? No. So he's not a 'clear and present danger' to this country. That's absurd and ridiculous. The man's going to leave office in 11 days.
To sit there and pick up articles of impeachment on Monday is a facade, a farce and a fraud. I'm really praying that Nancy Pelosi doesn't do this, but I think they're looking to milk it for political advantage and political gain. It's not going to happen. There's not even enough time. You're going to get 2/3 of the chambers of the House and Senate to agree to impeach somebody who has a week left? No, of course not..."
Rep Pat Fallon/Joseph Pinion
NDPP, you truly are a Trumpian Trumpist through and through!
Is that the new term for everyone opposing election-rigging by Democrats?
So all that talk about putting forward alternate sources (right wing lies) so that we babblers would better understand the thoughts (if any) and feelings of the aggrieved Trump supporters was just bullshit. You actually believe the nonsense you've been posting. Sad.
Hasn't it been obvious all along that NDPP believes Trump's lies?
I don't know what the GOP are so worried about. It only took one Democratic term after the Nixon/Ford Presidencies for them to recover and elect another Republican president.
Is impeaching trump worth it if it means people start storming Capitol Hill with guns and ammo and actually using them? Or they start targeting law enforcement and infrastructure? Thousands attended the protest, one person was shot and it was by the security force. That day could have truely turned into the bloodbath people keep prophesizing about. Almost twice the total population of Canada voted for Trump.
I think if fascists aren't challenged they'll be emboldened. I think history shows that appeasing fascists just empowers fascists. I also think that when a crime is committed it is important that the transgressor or transgressors be charged immediately. If Trump is charged in two months he and his cult will declare that if he was truly guilty of anything serious so much time would not have been allowed to lapse.
Hasn't it been obvious all along that NDPP believes Trump's lies?
Well, it wasn't obvious to me. I thought NDPP was doing some sort of passive-aggressive schtick to sort of rub our noses in the cesspool of right-wing lies, and suggest that they are no different than the very real but much more ordinary political and deniable lies of Democrats.
Trump to be impeached for “incitement of insurrection”
----------------------
Jeralyn usually has well thought out comments. About whether she had any political aspirations herself, it doesn't appear to be in the cards.
Fight or Flight?
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" for Donald Trump. (Bob Dylan, Suberteranean Homesick Blues)
If Trump resigns, won't Pence just pardon him the way Ford pardoned Nixon? I'd rather see him stay and try to pardon himself, which will end up costing him millions in legal fees over the next few years as the courts debate whether he has the power to do that.
I think a charge of seditious conspiracy is the way to go. Maybe he will be hit with a federal complaint on January 21 after which they will take it to the grand jury so there is no question they did not indict a sitting President.
[More...]
Things to be happy about: Don, Jr and Kimberly, Ivanka and Lara Trump will never be the second round of Trumps to win electoral office. Jared will never again be the power behind the throne, in charge of the little people who work at the White House.
Just for more fun, re-read Hunter Thompson's 1994 obituary for Richard Nixon, "He Was a Crook".
He was a swine of a man and a jabbering dupe of a president....He has poisoned our water forever. Nixon will be remembered as a classic case of a smart man shi*ting in his own nest. But he also sh*t in our nests, and that was the crime that history will burn on his memory like a brand. By disgracing and degrading the Presidency of the United States, by fleeing the White House like a diseased cur, Richard Nixon broke the heart of the American Dream.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2021/1/9/163243/0561/elections2020/Saturda...
-----------------------
Impeachment the Second Time Around
Does practice make perfect? Here is the Impeachment Resoulution now circulating in the House of Representatives.
The charge (Article I): Incitement of Insurrection. The alleged misconduct: Willfully inciting violence against the Government of the United States.
"Willfully" is the required state of mind. (Every crime except strict liability crimes like not wearing a seat belt have two components -- an Actus Reus (act) and a required Mens Rea (Mental State).
"Willfully" is a higher standard than "knowingly". It requires proof the person acted voluntarily and purposely, with the specific intent to do something the law forbids (here, to incite violence). It also includes voluntarily and intentionally assisting or advising another to do something the person knows disobeys or disregards the law.
It is not a defense to acting "willfully" that a person may have believed that his conduct was politically or morally required, or that he believed ultimate good would result from his acts.
So, did Trump intentionally violate a known legal duty? In my view: he intentionally violated dozens if not hundreds of them over the past four years. [More...]
That said, I do not want him removed from office before January 20. Why? Because if he is, Pence will likely pardon him, just like Ford pardoned Nixon. We must not let Pence become President before Biden takes office.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2021/1/11/2245/50253/Colo_News/Impeachment...
There are no perfect or zero-pain/cost approaches or solutions to dealing with what happened on Wednesday, but a second impeachment of Trump does need to happen. This is exactly the kind of thing that impeachment was created for and if it doesn't happen, even if its likely too late to remove him from office, is still very important to show that there are consequences. If Congress doesn't do this, that will send an even worse signal and will likely bring an even worse consequence somewhere down the road. Now we'll see if they all do the right thing: https://magpiebrule.ca/2021/01/09/the-case-for-a-second-trump-impeachment/
Well said!
------------------------
More good news for some sanity in the US.
Talk-Radio Owner Threatens to Fire Hosts Who Dispute Election Results
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/talk-radio-owner-threatens-to-fire-h...
--------------
Just looking at the Fox News Website shows you how threatened the GOP are about even the mention of the word impeachment.
Capitol Police chief sought DC National Guard help before riots – but was denied by supervisors: report
Steven Sund is now speaking out following the deadly riots
https://www.foxnews.com/us/capitol-police-chief-sought-dc-national-guard...
----------------
Republicans are gaslighting America about Trump's coup: Only impeachment can set the record straight
Impeachment establishes a formal record, making it harder for the right to pressure media to downplay January 6
https://www.salon.com/2021/01/11/republicans-are-gaslighting-america-abo...
------------------
Desperate not to take responsibility for what they’ve set in motion, pro-Trump media pivot to conspiracy theories
They're scrambling for a narrative after months of stoking anger and paranoia over the election results
https://www.mediamatters.org/january-6-insurrection/desperate-not-take-r...
-----------
It appears that Wednesday will be Impeachment No 2 Day. Pelosi will have the votes, as even a few Republicans will vote in favour as well. Senate will have a trial but as 2/3s is required, probably not so much. One of the things that is coming after the trial in the new Senate, is to pass a motion with a simple majority, that Trump cannot run again. The GOP, if they were wise, should leap at the chance.
-------------------
Not legal anyway, not that necessarily it would stop an attempt.
White House counsel and Barr warned Trump not to self-pardon
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/11/politics/white-house-counsel-cipollone-ba...
House Democrats unveil article of impeachment against Trump (and vid)
http://twitter.com/i/events/1347651175236079616
"House Democrats introduced an article of impeachment against Donald Trump on Monday, accusing him of inciting insurrection at the Capitol building on January 6. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell told GOP colleagues on Friday that the earliest a Senate trial could likely be held would be on January 19, according to a memo obtained by several news outlets."
I think if fascists aren't challenged they'll be emboldened. I think history shows that appeasing fascists just empowers fascists. I also think that when a crime is committed it is important that the transgressor or transgressors be charged immediately. If Trump is charged in two months he and his cult will declare that if he was truly guilty of anything serious so much time would not have been allowed to lapse.
I think facists gets thrown around like Nazi does. Even more so perhaps. The left wants to call everyone on the right facists. Trump had 60 million or so people vote for him in 2016. Closer to 75 million in 2020. If there's 75 million facists in the US then the world is in for a hell of a time.
The democrats want to impeach Trump to do anything they can to fuck with him and to stop him from running for office again in 2024 (right from Pelosi). So even if 250 million Americals all of a sudden wanted to vote for Trump 2024, they couldn't. It's not very democratic if you think about it.
With the justice system sometimes it takes months or years to build a case against someone. What does it accomplish trying to charge trump right away and then charges don't materiaise? I think it would be better to make them stick, even if that takes months.
I think you're confusing impeachment with criminal charges.
I think if fascists aren't challenged they'll be emboldened. I think history shows that appeasing fascists just empowers fascists. I also think that when a crime is committed it is important that the transgressor or transgressors be charged immediately. If Trump is charged in two months he and his cult will declare that if he was truly guilty of anything serious so much time would not have been allowed to lapse.I think facists gets thrown around like Nazi does. Even more so perhaps. The left wants to call everyone on the right facists. Trump had 60 million or so people vote for him in 2016. Closer to 75 million in 2020. If there's 75 million facists in the US then the world is in for a hell of a time.
The democrats want to impeach Trump to do anything they can to fuck with him and to stop him from running for office again in 2024 (right from Pelosi). So even if 250 million Americals all of a sudden wanted to vote for Trump 2024, they couldn't. It's not very democratic if you think about it.
With the justice system sometimes it takes months or years to build a case against someone. What does it accomplish trying to charge trump right away and then charges don't materiaise? I think it would be better to make them stick, even if that takes months.
Luckily Trump will be impeached on Wednesday!
Worst. President. Ever.
Hasn't it been obvious all along that NDPP believes Trump's lies?
Well, it wasn't obvious to me. I thought NDPP was doing some sort of passive-aggressive schtick to sort of rub our noses in the cesspool of right-wing lies, and suggest that they are no different than the very real but much more ordinary political and deniable lies of Democrats.
I would tend to agree. NDPP posts from some dicey sources but never claims they are anything other than what they are. At least he doesn't relentlessly spam the board with the imperial MSM.
Impeachment is toothless, it's basically like us finding Trudeau guilty of ethical breaches. What's he up to, 4? 5? He doesn't care. He just says ya sorry won't do it again. Just like every time one of our scummy politicians get caught doing something. Sorry, I promise to do better.
The only actual benefit of impeachment for Trump is to prevent him from running again. Which honestly is awesome, but ethically it's wrong to impeach someone if that's the reason why. Plus it goes against the idea of democracy and people getting to vote in who they want.
Trump should be investigated and if he did anything illegal then should face criminal charges.
Will he? Probably not.
I don't want him off the hook anymore than you or anyone else here does, but is it worth more riots, chaos and death? Easy for us to say hell yes. But if it was members of our family getting their head smashed with pipes and sticks or tore at we might disagree. And yes that's an appeal to emotion and a fallacy :) I hate thinking of letting him off the hood.
I don't want him off the hook anymore than you or anyone else here does, but is it worth more riots, chaos and death? Easy for us to say hell yes. But if it was members of our family getting their head smashed with pipes and sticks or tore at we might disagree. And yes that's an appeal to emotion and a fallacy :) I hate thinking of letting him off the hood.
Trump supporters are already planning an armed march on Washington and state capitols. "Refuse to be silenced" posters have and are being posted across the U.S., especially around Washington D.C.
A minority of Trump supporters have pledged on sites like Parler to show up on Inauguration Day to again attack the nation's Capitol.
"Many of us will return on January 19, 2021 carrying Our weapons," wrote a Parler user who goes by the handle Colonel007.
"We will come in numbers that no standing army or police agency can match."
In a tense AM call w Kevin McCarthy, President Trump today privately — and falsely — blamed "Antifa people" for storming the Capitol... McCarthy told him the riot “was MAGA” and he knew because he was in there, per WH official.
Trump supporters are already planning an armed march on Washington and state capitols.
Small tangent. If I was a cop in the US I would rather deal with armed protestors.
There's been tons of marches and protests where Americans have brought guns . It's for show. I guess it could be intimidating for some, but the minute those guns are pointed at citizens or police officers then they cross the line for intent and the police (or other armed citizens) can shoot them in self-defense.
For as chaotic as the January 6 riot/protest/assault was, one person was shot with a gun. Shooter was a cop. There had to be hundreds if not thousands of guns present. With the presence of a firearm the threat level is already ramped up and if they act like an asshole then police will react more agressively. People run the risk of losing their $1000-$3000 gun, maybe their liscence and thousands of dollars more in guns. Then there's lawyer fees and all that.
I heard a commentator explain the process and it requires a Senate trial and there is just not the time to do it unless the Republicans agree to extraordinary measures to do the work of Congress while simultaneously holding a trial.
Schumer wants domestic terrorists on no-fly lists and has requested McConnell to agree to move up the impeachment trial date. Adam Schiff says the main question now is how many Republicans will vote to impeach as well.
The number 3 Republican in the House, Liz Cheney, will vote to impeach:
"There has never been a greater betrayal by a President of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution."
https://twitter.com/elikasadeghi/status/1349125922050359296?s=20
GOP Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick (R-Pa.) just introduced a resolution to censure Trump "for attempting to unlawfully overturn the 2020 Presidential election and for violating his oath of office on January 6th, 2021."
https://twitter.com/Olivia_Beavers/status/1349145578714894340?s=20
'Would set a terrible precedent': Pence says he WON'T invoke 25th amendment to oust Trump
"Vice-President Mike Pence has stated that he would not cave in to pressure from the Democrat-run House, to invoke the 25th Amendment, arguing it should not serve as 'a means of punishment or usurpation.' 'I don't believe that such a course of action is in the best interest of our Nation or consistent with our Constitution,' his letter reads.."
The number 3 Republican in the House, Liz Cheney, will vote to impeach:
"There has never been a greater betrayal by a President of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution."
https://twitter.com/elikasadeghi/status/1349125922050359296?s=20
Which begs the question, is the reason Cheney and her fellow neoconservatives dislike Trump so much:
a) He showed them so much contempt in the primary, making fun of poor Jeb etc.
b) He has violated decorum and the Neoconservatives have principles goddarnit (which don't get in the way of falsifying the case for starting a massive ongoing regional war and refugee crisis, engaging in bribery, covering up torture etc.)
c) He wouldn't play ball on their particular imperial concerns. The world was a better place when Haliburton had more sway.
d) He attempted a fascistic coup.
Hoyer "Weaponizing hate for political gain"
Hoyer "Weaponizing hate for political gain"
d) She opposed a coup attempt by a fascist president.
That's really just a more charitable 'b'. Thanks for the honest answer. I disagree that this is what has caused the rift.
I would say that Cheney's position on impeachment is a result of factional conflict in the Republican party. She represents the traditional party establishment, namely the military/industrial/security/media complex. They've had their control of the party rudely torn away by Trump, and they want it back. She is part of that counter attack.
